Part I, Chapters 7 - 14-MY THOUGHTS ON CHAPTER 8

[Zeal]

---

DSaff, Thanks for helping Fozzie out with the page number. I appreciate it!

While I agree that she was probably experiencing a great deal of anxiety, I don't think cutting herself down was the best way to deal with it. A self pep talk might have done more for her spirits & her confidence. Perhaps I'm only projecting my thoughts on how I would react in a similar situation.

Message Edited by TRJ4SQ on 04-09-2009 08:17 AM

---

A self pep talk would have been more productive and beneficial, but does not fit Connie's personality.  She seems to always second guess herself and also seems to lack self-esteem.  Connie has not "grown" enough to react this way.

[Zeal]

---

TRJ4SQ wrote:

---

DSaff wrote:

It is really odd that no male children seem to be born to these households. With the deaths of their husbands, these women had to forge on alone in a society that wasn't very female friendly.

---

Good point! I picked up on this too.

Add the fact that it has been only one female child. Very curious indeed!

---

Does anyone know if this was typical for women who practiced this craft in the past?  Also, I have read that all women who practiced had either black or red hair...no blondes.

[Zeal]

---

TRJ4SQ wrote:

---

Fozzie wrote:

---

chris227 wrote:

I just have a few random thoughs and notes I jotted down while I was reading that I wanted to mention.  About the house:

Okay I think that the house is extremely spooky and I would not be staying there alone (or probably at all) but on page 130 it says "the dried potted plants that hung motionless, like dried spiders, in the windows" which to me just made the house sound spookier.  Now at this point Connie had been in the house for a couple of weeks, why didn't she get rid of the dead plants?  And the garden is thriving but the houseplants are dead (I know I know no water, etc. but the garden doesn't give away to reason why should aything else in the house?).

---

I keep wondering why Connie just doesn't toss the dead houseplants out into the yard!  And now we know she has a compost pile, so dump them there!

Message Edited by Fozzie on 04-08-2009 12:02 PM

---

Maybe she'll bring them back to life later??

---

I believe Connie is able to stay in the house due to the overwhelming "presence" of her grandmother in the house.  Whether she knows it or not, I feel as if she is being protected by the aura and spirts of Grace and her grandmother.  As for the dead houseplants, like everything else in the house, they just "belong." 

[bookowlie]

---

pode wrote:

---

thewanderingjew wrote:

I am enjoying the book but I am having a hard time understanding the relationship between Connie and her mom and even Connie and the other characters. She seems so naive at times and yet she has been so independent most of her life that I feel she should be more worldy and intuitive, maybe even just more aware than she sometimes seems. She always seems to be at sea about something and never fully comprehends her situation. Her character doesn't seem real to me yet......

---

Connie's character isn't working for me either.  She discussed ideas eloquently early on during her oral exam but since then seems to be floating around, not seeing what's going on around her.  Her reactions are mild regarding Chilton, her mother, the clues she finds, odd occurrences, even the love interest, Sam.  Her character started out so strong and interesting and it hasn't been sustained.

By mid book I had hoped to understand the other characters in the book.   Liz has almost disappeared.  Thomas and the other professors don't seem to have roles anymore.  That leaves Connie, Sam and Chilton.  Other than that Chilton gets creepier, I'm not seeing much development.

Sorry..... I had expected to be more intrugued by the book.  The topic was so juicy! 

As I've said before, I'm finding the "old" story more interesting than the current.

pode

---

I agree with some of the opinions that Connie's character is not as strong and assertive as she was in the beginning of the story.  I am surprised that she didn't stand up a little to Chilton's bullying.  It's as if Connie is a bit of a character in a video game, finding clues to solve the mystery, but not having too much of a personality.  She doesn't seem to have "normal" reactions to the strange occurences and the clues she finds.  Maybe her character will develop more as the story progresses.

I was suspicious of Chilton from the first chapter.  My feelings for him haven't changed since I thought he might be an evil force right from the beginning.  I can't decide whether he is just out to benefit his career or if there is something more sinister going on.  I thought he might be a warlock or have some connection to the events of the past.

I think the receipt book is a recipe book for potions and cures.  Prudence doesn't even want the book as she feels it has brought grief to her family.  I like that the reader finds out things in the book before Connie does.  It creates a little tension, although I think Connie is a little slow at discovering things.  She seems book smart, but not street smart.

[dhaupt]

---

bookowlie wrote:

---

pode wrote:

---

thewanderingjew wrote:

I am enjoying the book but I am having a hard time understanding the relationship between Connie and her mom and even Connie and the other characters. She seems so naive at times and yet she has been so independent most of her life that I feel she should be more worldy and intuitive, maybe even just more aware than she sometimes seems. She always seems to be at sea about something and never fully comprehends her situation. Her character doesn't seem real to me yet......

---

Connie's character isn't working for me either.  She discussed ideas eloquently early on during her oral exam but since then seems to be floating around, not seeing what's going on around her.  Her reactions are mild regarding Chilton, her mother, the clues she finds, odd occurrences, even the love interest, Sam.  Her character started out so strong and interesting and it hasn't been sustained.

By mid book I had hoped to understand the other characters in the book.   Liz has almost disappeared.  Thomas and the other professors don't seem to have roles anymore.  That leaves Connie, Sam and Chilton.  Other than that Chilton gets creepier, I'm not seeing much development.

Sorry..... I had expected to be more intrugued by the book.  The topic was so juicy! 

As I've said before, I'm finding the "old" story more interesting than the current.

pode

---

I agree with some of the opinions that Connie's character is not as strong and assertive as she was in the beginning of the story.  I am surprised that she didn't stand up a little to Chilton's bullying.  It's as if Connie is a bit of a character in a video game, finding clues to solve the mystery, but not having too much of a personality.  She doesn't seem to have "normal" reactions to the strange occurences and the clues she finds.  Maybe her character will develop more as 

the story progresses. 

---

First of all I think it's great that we all have these different opinions about the book, I think that's what makes this forum so much fun and interesting.

I'm one of the readers who love Connie's character and let me try to voice my opinion as to why.

Where you see her as wishy washy I tend to give her a little lee way there. I feel that she's on the brink of rediscovering herself, she's always been a very analytical thinker and since rediscovering some of her heritage through her grandmother I think she's finding that there is more to life than research and classwork. But she's also slow to change because all her life she's seen order as her way to combat Grace's disorder and I think that by seeing her grandmother's home and her garden that she's discovering that Sophia was orderly too.

I also disagree with some of you that Grace and Connie have a strained relationship, I just see them as two very different people who love each other very much and have chosen so far to follow different paths and now I think that Connie is seeing Grace in a different way and appreciating her for their differences. The two women are obviously very in tuned to each other by their phone conversations and the way they each feel when the other is in need.

[bookowlie]

---

dhaupt wrote:

---

bookowlie wrote:

---

pode wrote:

---

thewanderingjew wrote:

I am enjoying the book but I am having a hard time understanding the relationship between Connie and her mom and even Connie and the other characters. She seems so naive at times and yet she has been so independent most of her life that I feel she should be more worldy and intuitive, maybe even just more aware than she sometimes seems. She always seems to be at sea about something and never fully comprehends her situation. Her character doesn't seem real to me yet......

---

Connie's character isn't working for me either.  She discussed ideas eloquently early on during her oral exam but since then seems to be floating around, not seeing what's going on around her.  Her reactions are mild regarding Chilton, her mother, the clues she finds, odd occurrences, even the love interest, Sam.  Her character started out so strong and interesting and it hasn't been sustained.

By mid book I had hoped to understand the other characters in the book.   Liz has almost disappeared.  Thomas and the other professors don't seem to have roles anymore.  That leaves Connie, Sam and Chilton.  Other than that Chilton gets creepier, I'm not seeing much development.

Sorry..... I had expected to be more intrugued by the book.  The topic was so juicy! 

As I've said before, I'm finding the "old" story more interesting than the current.

pode

---

I agree with some of the opinions that Connie's character is not as strong and assertive as she was in the beginning of the story.  I am surprised that she didn't stand up a little to Chilton's bullying.  It's as if Connie is a bit of a character in a video game, finding clues to solve the mystery, but not having too much of a personality.  She doesn't seem to have "normal" reactions to the strange occurences and the clues she finds.  Maybe her character will develop more as 

the story progresses. 

---

First of all I think it's great that we all have these different opinions about the book, I think that's what makes this forum so much fun and interesting.

I'm one of the readers who love Connie's character and let me try to voice my opinion as to why.

Where you see her as wishy washy I tend to give her a little lee way there. I feel that she's on the brink of rediscovering herself, she's always been a very analytical thinker and since rediscovering some of her heritage through her grandmother I think she's finding that there is more to life than research and classwork. But she's also slow to change because all her life she's seen order as her way to combat Grace's disorder and I think that by seeing her grandmother's home and her garden that she's discovering that Sophia was orderly too.

I also disagree with some of you that Grace and Connie have a strained relationship, I just see them as two very different people who love each other very much and have chosen so far to follow different paths and now I think that Connie is seeing Grace in a different way and appreciating her for their differences. The two women are obviously very in tuned to each other by their phone conversations and the way they each feel when the other is in need.

---

dhaupt (debbie),

Interesting observations, particularly about Connie and Grace's relationship.  They have a complicated relationship and Connie seems to feel let down by Grace during her childhood.  I do agree with you that you can tell by their phone calls that they are tuned into each other and the way they are feeling.  As I am reading more of the story, I am softening my opinion of Grace.  I initially thought she was a self-absorbed, uncaring mother.  I am starting to like her character a little more and think she is concerned about Connie.

[DSaff]

Here are two sites I found that might be helpful.

http://www.newage.suite101.com/article.cfm/dandelion_magic

I just tried this link and you need to search for Dandelion Magick.

http://www.whatflower.com/pk_plantlore.php

"...dreaming of dandelions..."

---

TRJ4SQ wrote:

---

Skelly7645 wrote:

Dandelions-I assume that the dandelions sketch in Ch. 11 , and then it is smudged by a "drop from somewhere" must have symbolic meaning.  Are dandelions related to witchcraft in any way? Then, in Ch. 14 the whole episode with the reading of a recipe card and the flower (a dandelion) comes to life and then dies.

---

Hmmm...This is a really interesting question. Has anyone checked it out? I did a brief search but didn't find anything.

---

Message Edited by DSaff on 04-09-2009 11:41 AM

[liisa22]

---

DSaff wrote:

I think I dislike Chilton even more than before. His anger towards Connie, and the threat to cut her funding make him a bully. He is not pushing her to excel at her work, but rather to achieve what he wants. He definitely wants her work to prove his ideas. I really want Connie to stand up to him.

I find Prudence to be an orderly, methodical woman. Her entries get right to the point without any extra fluff (though some would have been nice). I think she is a caring woman, but find her lack of words, especially on wintry days, hold me back from really getting to know her.  Prudence truly seems like a name that fits her.

It doesn't seem that Connie truly understands the type of lives these women lived. None of us truly do, but can learn more through reading journals. She wants more information from the papers and journal, more about what was going on. I keep thinking, come on Connie, figure it out. But then, we have the Interludes.

The door - I think the symbol was burned by the blue light she thought was from a meteor (pg. 171). The perfect circle leads me to believe that it was done supernaturally, and the timing is right. I looked up the words and they seem to denote a helper of God. So, I wonder if this is a sign of protection rather than something bad. I could be way off base, but think there are forces on both sides of finding The Physick Book!

I really like Sam. He appears whenever she needs him, whether she knows it or not. He encourages her without overt pressure, and helps her step away from her research when needed. She is very comfortable with him when out of her space (swimming), but becomes uncomfortable in pj's when at home. There seems to be a relationship brewing and I continue to wonder what part Sam plays in her research.

---

Well put DSaff !  I disliked Chilton from the start, and he hasn't endeared me anymore since! He is up to NO GOOD!  and I feel that he is using Connie to his advantage.

Prudence is a no-nonsense type of woman who doesn't waste time nor goods.

The symbol on the door, yeah a supernatural mark, no doubt!

And Sam...  Still like Sam.  He is smart,  and enough of a 'bad boy' to make me like, I mean really like him.  I like the idea of Josh Holloway (Sawyer on 'Lost') to play him ! 

[liisa22]

---

DSaff wrote:

I thought Connie reacted so strongly because Salem had become so commercialized. There didn't seem to be any thought about the tragedy that had happened; just how to make money from it. It wasn't until the woman tried to help her that Connie relaxed a little. The house and the people she is researching seem to be getting to Connie.

---

Salem is way too commercialized!  I wasn't sure if Connie didn't like the commercilization, or that the woman reminded Connie of other things...

[ponie]

---

TRJ4SQ wrote:

---

ponie wrote:

---

ponie wrote:
TRJ4SQ!  You are on a roll ths morning!!!  Great thoughts, further things to ponder!!!

---

a post to my own post - I can't help myself - I hope I am not committing a posting faux pas...

TRJ4SQ...good stuff...don't rest on your laurels, keep it coming!!!!!

---

Very funny Ponie!

You know I can't resist!

Wiki Answers....

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_don't_rest_on_your_laurels_mean&src=ansTT

---

[ponie]

---

CathyB wrote:

---

TRJ4SQ wrote:

---

blkeyesuzi wrote:

I have the same question.  Hopefully more will come up about the corn doll and the needle that was hidden in the skirt.  I can't imagine why the doll would have been mentioned, otherwise.  I'm just anxious to know more.  Also, is there a significance to the fact that the needle pricked her? or was that just a way to show that she had discovered the needle?

So many mysteries...I want to read on! 

---

I'm wondering if that little pin prick might be the catalyst for Connie's growing awareness??

---

Last weekend, I read The Crucible. There was a scene when Elizabeth Proctor was given a 'similar' doll. Later when the authorities showed up, they asked her whether or not she owned any 'poppet dolls', indicating that they were properties of witches. The doll was retrieved and one of the authorities was pricked with a needle that was left in the doll. An explanation was then given that the needle inflicted pain on a desired 'target' (person).

I think the doll is just there as another clue to being a 'witch'.

CathyB

---

I read The Crucible last week; started watching the dvd with Winona Ryder last night.  I couldn't watch it to the end...the book was upsetting enough!

My question: Do you think Connie, in all her studies, had read The Crucible???

[blkeyesuzi]

---

dhaupt wrote:

---

First of all I think it's great that we all have these different opinions about the book, I think that's what makes this forum so much fun and interesting.

I'm one of the readers who love Connie's character and let me try to voice my opinion as to why.

Where you see her as wishy washy I tend to give her a little lee way there. I feel that she's on the brink of rediscovering herself, she's always been a very analytical thinker and since rediscovering some of her heritage through her grandmother I think she's finding that there is more to life than research and classwork. But she's also slow to change because all her life she's seen order as her way to combat Grace's disorder and I think that by seeing her grandmother's home and her garden that she's discovering that Sophia was orderly too.

I also disagree with some of you that Grace and Connie have a strained relationship, I just see them as two very different people who love each other very much and have chosen so far to follow different paths and now I think that Connie is seeing Grace in a different way and appreciating her for their differences. The two women are obviously very in tuned to each other by their phone conversations and the way they each feel when the other is in need.

---

I totally agree!  Particularly where Connie and Grace are concerned.  I like their relationship and where it is going.  I don't see discord, just two very different people who love each other.  It's what I would consider a good relationship...they're in-tune with each other.

[aprilh]

---

CathyB wrote:

---

TRJ4SQ wrote:

---

blkeyesuzi wrote:

I have the same question.  Hopefully more will come up about the corn doll and the needle that was hidden in the skirt.  I can't imagine why the doll would have been mentioned, otherwise.  I'm just anxious to know more.  Also, is there a significance to the fact that the needle pricked her? or was that just a way to show that she had discovered the needle?

So many mysteries...I want to read on! 

---

I'm wondering if that little pin prick might be the catalyst for Connie's growing awareness??

---

Last weekend, I read The Crucible. There was a scene when Elizabeth Proctor was given a 'similar' doll. Later when the authorities showed up, they asked her whether or not she owned any 'poppet dolls', indicating that they were properties of witches. The doll was retrieved and one of the authorities was pricked with a needle that was left in the doll. An explanation was then given that the needle inflicted pain on a desired 'target' (person).

I think the doll is just there as another clue to being a 'witch'.

CathyB

---

CathyB, thanks for the info on the doll! I'm definitely going to have to read The Crucible after I finish Physick Book.

[belle1976]

---

Fozzie wrote:

---

GnANorman wrote:

How close is Connie's understanding of these women's lives, compared to our own? How does it feel to have more information than Connie does?

Aren't the flashbacks Connie's dreams?  Do we really have more information than she does?

---

Now that's food for thought!  That hadn't occured to me!

---

Good point, I was thinking that the flashbacks were more like a window to the past.  Like she was watching what had actually occurred.

[belle1976]

---

miller1323 wrote:

I’d like to add some wild speculations. 

 

I think the symbol may have been manifested by Connie herself.  She obviously has some powers she hasn’t faced.  I agree that it’s most likely some sort of protective symbol, maybe to help her discover her powers? 

 

Chilton is the creepiest, but I’m loving that about him!  He’s definitely connected to Connie in more ways then advisement.  Chilton obviously has an interest in witches, as we know from the oral exam.  We also know from Janine that he thinks of Alchemy as a literal science, so the next leap in logic maybe is that he might harbor a belief in witchcraft?  He also seems incredibly invested in this book, wasn’t he the one who suggested she look for a primary source in the first place? The MY GIRL title has been mentioned several times--so many times that I’m wondering if it maybe has a more literal meaning.

 

As for Grace, I think she maybe flat out discouraging Connie as a means of protection.  I think she wants Connie in that house she can discover the truth about her linage, and her own abilities.  I think she also takes the news of the book without surprise, so she may know if it’s existence.  Maybe she doesn’t want Chilton or the academic world at large to capitalize off of it.

 

I’m still fleshing some of these theories out…anyone find any support for them that I may have missed?

 

And I know it’s been mentioned before, but it’s my only complaint so far.  For a HARVARD GRADUATE STUDENT Connie is frustratingly slow on the uptake.  As a research sudent, I'm sure she's trained herself not to jump to conclusions, but jeez!

---

One thought that I had, I don't think we should assume that Grace is discouraging Connie. At one point, she tells Connie that her studies are taking time away from Connie really knowing about herself.  Maybe Grace knows about the connections of Deliverance Dane to Connie.  Does she wants Connie to learn about her background and her powers (? word choice) on her own and thinks the mysteries will be easier to solve if Connie takes the time to learn about herself first?   

[ladybug74]

I am going to try posting my opinions before reading the other posts this time to see if this works better for me.

I am starting to be suspicious of Chilton's motives as the story progresses. At first, I thought he was just "full of himself," but now I am starting to think that he is definitely up to something.

Just like the others, I am thinking the "receipt" book is a book of medicines and home remedies--herbal stuff that would have been used by Deliverance. I believe Prudence thinks the women in her family will continue to be discriminated against by their community as long as they continue to use the book. By selling this book, it seems that she is trying to remove its curse from her family. She even mentioned something about all of the women losing the men in their lives and not wanting this to continue.

Because we have more information than Connie, it makes it easier for me to see thing that Connie is overlooking (but are pretty obvious to me.)

I personally thought the symbol that was burned on the front door could have been some type of curse that was being used against Connie or either something to protect the community members from her, as a "witch" descendant. My intial thought was that Chilton could have burned it there or had it burned there to curse Connie for some reason, then I developed the idea that it was to protect the community from "the witch" who resided in that house.

I think Sam is still in the story to give Connie one more reason to stay in that area and continue here research. She obviously likes him and wants to see more of him. I see him more as a "rough" boy than as a romantic. Perhaps the descriptions of him have led me to believe this. (Plus I was always attracted to the "bad boys" when I was single.)

[ladybug74]

---

Bonnie824 wrote:

ITA- both that Chilton wants to use Connie's work- and needs it because he has nothing new himself, and that Connie has underestimated her Mom. I am also curious about "Granna". Did she just ignore all the magic in the house? Or did it now work for her I wonder?

---

I was under the impression that Granna could have actually used the magic in the house or at least used herbal remedies. All of the bottles and jars of old herbs gave me this idea.

[ladybug74]

---

jabrkeKB wrote:

---

Fozzie wrote:

I keep wondering why Connie just doesn't toss the dead houseplants out into the yard!  And now we know she has a compost pile, so dump them there!

Message Edited by Fozzie on 04-08-2009 12:02 PM

---

Yeah, I was wondering about those dead plants as well. There must be a reason she is not throwing them out.

---

Since we read about Mercy's abilities with making fruit grow, maybe Connie will discover later that she can revive the dead plants or something? Just a wild guess...,.

[ladybug74]

---

blkeyesuzi wrote:

I have the same question.  Hopefully more will come up about the corn doll and the needle that was hidden in the skirt.  I can't imagine why the doll would have been mentioned, otherwise.  I'm just anxious to know more.  Also, is there a significance to the fact that the needle pricked her? or was that just a way to show that she had discovered the needle?

So many mysteries...I want to read on! 

---

I wonder if a witch's blood is needed for the "voodoo" that the doll was intended for to work. Just another of my random thoughts...

[ladybug74]

---

Zeal wrote:

Does anyone know if this was typical for women who practiced this craft in the past?  Also, I have read that all women who practiced had either black or red hair...no blondes.

---

The stereotypical witch has long black hair and a pointed hat, but I have never heard or read that there are no blondes. Interesting...