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Zeal
Posts: 258
Registered: ‎03-18-2009
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Re: Fathers and Sons

I was first surprised and a little confused as to why Jack cried in the hospital.  Then, I thought maybe Jack does have a heart and really cares about Mike but has never known how to show his feelings.  I don't think it involved guilt.  Jack is who he is, and the alcohol has a drastic effect on him, as well as, his experiences in the war.  War changes people.  My grandfather lost his twin brother in the war, came back an alcoholic, and was never the same person again.  He never found a desire to "change back" into the person he was before.  It think it would be interesting to know a little more about Jack's life before he went off to fight.  Maybe, we wouldn't judge him as harshly.  Don't get me wrong, I do not like the man, his actions are despicable, and the way he treats people is terrible, but part of me found myself pitying Jack. 

"I learned to dream through reading, learned to create dreams through writing, and learned to develop dreamers through teaching. I shall always be a dreamer."
Sharon Draper
Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,648
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
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Re: Fathers and Sons

I agree with you. I don't like Jack or agree with his actions to Mike.

But there must be more to Jack's story. It would be interesting to see a flashback of Jack as young man. I felt Jack was sincere when he cried. He obviously doesn't know how to father or relate to other people.

pen21

 

 

Zeal wrote:

I was first surprised and a little confused as to why Jack cried in the hospital.  Then, I thought maybe Jack does have a heart and really cares about Mike but has never known how to show his feelings.  I don't think it involved guilt.  Jack is who he is, and the alcohol has a drastic effect on him, as well as, his experiences in the war.  War changes people.  My grandfather lost his twin brother in the war, came back an alcoholic, and was never the same person again.  He never found a desire to "change back" into the person he was before.  It think it would be interesting to know a little more about Jack's life before he went off to fight.  Maybe, we wouldn't judge him as harshly.  Don't get me wrong, I do not like the man, his actions are despicable, and the way he treats people is terrible, but part of me found myself pitying Jack. 

 

 

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Krickett2432
Posts: 18
Registered: ‎12-03-2009
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Re: Fathers and Sons

Mike has had very little contact with his father over the years. What are his feelings for him? Why does he have the urge to protect him now? Are you convinced by Mike's arguments of his father's innocence in this situation?

 

I'm glad you had this category.  I feel that the father and son relationship are more central to the story than the mystery involved.  Mike had a very strange relationship with his father growing up, but I believe there is something built into people that wants so badly to be loved by their parents that they will be tremendously forgiving.  Even though he has had little contact with his father, he is convinced that he is innocent, and is willing to give up his career to help prove that.  I believe in his innocence too because he (the father) doesn't seem to be that calculating.  The shooting was definitely a set up--and appears to be perpetrated by more than one person. 

 

Mike spends part of a summer with his father when he was a teenager. Can you describe that trip and the impression it made on Mike?

 

I think this back story was my favorite part of the book.  It really established what there relationship was all about.  Although he wasn't with him a long time, he got to know what his father was like, and how much he would be able to expect from him (which was not much).  I believe there is more to the father's story that we will be hearing about in upcoming chapters that will explain things.  (At least I hope so!)

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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,276
Registered: ‎10-20-2008
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Re: Fathers and Sons

pen21 wrote:

I agree with you. I don't like Jack or agree with his actions to Mike.

But there must be more to Jack's story. It would be interesting to see a flashback of Jack as young man. I felt Jack was sincere when he cried. He obviously doesn't know how to father or relate to other people.

pen21

 

 

Zeal wrote:

I was first surprised and a little confused as to why Jack cried in the hospital.  Then, I thought maybe Jack does have a heart and really cares about Mike but has never known how to show his feelings.  I don't think it involved guilt.  Jack is who he is, and the alcohol has a drastic effect on him, as well as, his experiences in the war.  War changes people.  My grandfather lost his twin brother in the war, came back an alcoholic, and was never the same person again.  He never found a desire to "change back" into the person he was before.  It think it would be interesting to know a little more about Jack's life before he went off to fight.  Maybe, we wouldn't judge him as harshly.  Don't get me wrong, I do not like the man, his actions are despicable, and the way he treats people is terrible, but part of me found myself pitying Jack. 

 

 

 

 

pen21 wrote:

I agree with you. I don't like Jack or agree with his actions to Mike.

But there must be more to Jack's story. It would be interesting to see a flashback of Jack as young man. I felt Jack was sincere when he cried. He obviously doesn't know how to father or relate to other people.

pen21

 

 

Zeal wrote:

I was first surprised and a little confused as to why Jack cried in the hospital.  Then, I thought maybe Jack does have a heart and really cares about Mike but has never known how to show his feelings.  I don't think it involved guilt.  Jack is who he is, and the alcohol has a drastic effect on him, as well as, his experiences in the war.  War changes people.  My grandfather lost his twin brother in the war, came back an alcoholic, and was never the same person again.  He never found a desire to "change back" into the person he was before.  It think it would be interesting to know a little more about Jack's life before he went off to fight.  Maybe, we wouldn't judge him as harshly.  Don't get me wrong, I do not like the man, his actions are despicable, and the way he treats people is terrible, but part of me found myself pitying Jack. 

 

 I am hoping as well that we are given a glimpse into Jack's past,the Jack that Charley knew,and help Mike put his life back together..Thanks to both of you for insightful observations,we have become invested in Mike,and want the series to continue...So many questions...

 

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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parisianrose
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎11-18-2009
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Re: Fathers and Sons

When Mike is in the hospital with pneumonia, he wakes to find his father crying. How did you interpret his father's tears?

 

I think his dad's tears were what had been bottled up for a very long time: not seeing your own kid for a number of years should put some sort of guilty feeling on your conscience.  Add to that that Mike could have died, and there's a perfect reason to shed a few tears.

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nymazz
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎09-14-2009
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Re: Fathers and Sons

Mike has had very little contact with his father over the years. What are his feelings for him? Why does he have the urge to protect him now? Are you convinced by Mike's arguments of his father's innocence in this situation?

I think Mike's urge to protect his father at this time is because for the first time in Mike's life his

father has reached out to him for something.  I think Mike clings to that as some kind of hope that his father is really a good person and I think at this point in the book Mike truly believes his father is being framed and his innocent.

 

Do you get a sense of Jack's feelings for Mike in these chapters? When Mike is in the hospital with pneumonia, he wakes to find his father crying. How did you interpret his father's tears?

I think it hits him how badly he's treated his son all his life, and how his actions almost cost Mike his life. 

 

Mike spends part of a summer with his father when he was a teenager. Can you describe that trip and the impression it made on Mike?

I believe Mike was very hopeful when he set on to see his father, but was soon disappointed when his father didn't even bother to pick him up, and it was downhill from there.  Once Mike realized nothing changed, he wanted to leave.

 

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are. -Mason Cooley-
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HannibalCat
Posts: 238
Registered: ‎10-25-2006
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Re: Fathers and Sons

 

Zeal wrote:

I was first surprised and a little confused as to why Jack cried in the hospital.  Then, I thought maybe Jack does have a heart and really cares about Mike but has never known how to show his feelings.  I don't think it involved guilt.  Jack is who he is, and the alcohol has a drastic effect on him, as well as, his experiences in the war.  War changes people.  My grandfather lost his twin brother in the war, came back an alcoholic, and was never the same person again.  He never found a desire to "change back" into the person he was before.  It think it would be interesting to know a little more about Jack's life before he went off to fight.  Maybe, we wouldn't judge him as harshly.  Don't get me wrong, I do not like the man, his actions are despicable, and the way he treats people is terrible, but part of me found myself pitying Jack. 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you. War changes people and the PTSD can make people do things they would never do prior to the incident/s. But Jack had some of this in him before the left for war. I think Jack had some genuine feeling for his son, but it was easy for him to dismiss them to do what he wanted to do. He cannot allow his feelings to interfere with his own goals. I pity him, but, like you, I despise his behaviors.