Hunting, Trapping, Poaching

[momoftwinsMM]

Although I was extremely upset with Jack for taking his sick son out in the cold to trap, did anyone else think that maybe he was trying to include Mike? Perhaps Jack was taking one of the very few opportunities he had with his son to show him what he was all about, to let his son into his world. The scene where he is seen crying at his son's bedside, made me believe that he is not a complete jerk, but someone who just does not know how to care for his son or (anyone else for that matter). He did feel remorse at his poor decision making.

[DfiggZ]

I felt the same way. Even if his father seems like a bad person for bringing his sick sono out in the cold. But he did say "it's just a cold" who would have thought it was more than that? And it's not like Mike said anything but then again he jseemed afraid to say anything.

I felt like Jack just wanted to show his son what he does and maybe teach him how to do these things. I am not too sure it was some sort of binding bt I def felt that he was simply showing his son what he does and hoping that his son wold like to do it as much as him.

[deannafrances]

I live in MIchigan and hunting is considered so much a part of life that the local high school takes off the first day of hunting season as a regular day off school.  However, no matter what hunters say--there are only a few of them who use the animal as food--the rest of hunting is good old boy hokum and an excuse to get drunk and stink for 3 or 4 days in a cabin away from the women folk.

Most of the hunters do not  HUNT  but sit and wait for a deer to pass by--they just made baiting iilegal in Michigan --before there was a big business in selling carrots and sugar beets in October to lay in the fields, get the deer to come there and then during hunting season pick them off.

I am NOT  a PETA  person and i have eaten some game in my life and I am not a vegan, but until they give squirrels and possums and the deer a couple of machine guns mounted on their antlers it is not exactly a fair game nor hunting --it is a killing fun fest.

In MIch they finally said you couldn't shoot mourning doves--now think of the mentality and genius intelligence and bravery it takes to kill a dove.  

I also llive nesr 3 game farms and you can pay your money and be guartanteed to kill a boar or some exotic--they let the animal go and you get as many shots as you need to kill.

Fun Fun Fun

Also hunters do not respect the land or keep it cleaner than when they left.

[socalreader]

Well, I don't like Jack. . . even if he is innocent, which we don't know yet.  He's just not a likable person at all. . .has no respect for the animals he traps and kills, no respect for the law, and seems to have no respect for his own son the way he treats him.  I'd like to know more about his background. . .what led to his becoming this cold calculating callous person? 

I didn't like reading about the animals being trapped. . . too sad for me. 

[deannafrances]

I reread my message and I sound very angry, when I finished the book this morning I was--I did not like any of the people in the book, didn't like the subject --however I will say this about the author his descriptive language is good and his capturing the mood and outdoorsiness is very good.  I read in some other message that he creates the outdoors as if it were a character and I would agree with that.  

I still would like to thank First Look for providing a variety of topics and styles.  It certainly is interesting and thought provoking.

[librarysusie]

To me so much worse than taking a sick chld out was the way he treated him while they were out there.Questioning his manhood he wasn't a man he was a boy.And  a sick boy at that.I do feel though that at first Mike was just glad his dad had included him in the trip and I think if Jack had shown his son some compassion that day maybe their relationship may have been different.

There is a big difference between how Mike & Jack feel about the animals and poaching and Mike figures that out the summer he spends with Jack at the camp.

Also the whole storyline with the bear Mike felt so much compassion for the bear and yes his emotions were already on edge when Thompson shot the bear  but he still cared about the bears suffering.My heart broke for him when he had to put the bear down

[kpatton]

babzilla41 wrote

Jack views hunting/trapping as a way of life; a means to make money, a way to feed himself and for a while his family.  Mike is more sensitive towards the animals, as he showed the day he was trapping with his dad and asked why he didn't just shoot the fox.  You could see that it bothered him to know what the fox felt before he died.  Shooting the fox was more humane to Mike.  Mike, as an adult, still cares for the animals as he has shown in dealing with the bear - he wanted to trap the bear and was angry that he ended up having to track down the injured bear only to have to kill him.  He knew the bear was suffering from the gunshot wound that Bud inflicted.  Interestingly, Mike did not show Bud any concern when he realized that Bud was injured/bleeding - his comment about Bud not having to worry, he wasn't going to bleed to death - then leaving him alone in the house while he went after the bear.  His disregard for Bud was similiar to Jack's disregard for Mike's feelings about the trapped animals. 

Babzilla, I agree with your comments.  Mike has an approach of preserving first and if need be, killing with speed and humanity.  Jack's approach is the hunter/trapper.  You've said it well.

Kathy

[jb70]

I remember when I was little my grandmother had a stole made from a mink I think and the head was still attatched as part of it and that thing creeped me out.  Once I realized that fur came from an animal and it had to die so someone could wear it i stopped having any desire to wear or have anything fur.  I am continually surprised by seeing people wearing fur coats.  When it was necessary for people to survive and they used the animal in its entirety I see no problem with hunting or even trapping if it was a survival thing, but to kill an animal to be an object seems wrong.  My family has quite a few hunters, but I've never had any desire to do so.  One of my cousins who is much older than I am cried the first time he went hunting and either shot a deer or saw the deer being shot and, even though he is now in his fifties and this was when he was a teeneager, they still sometimes tease him about it.  I don't think hunting is any proof of manliness, but I know that is how Jack sees it.

[BookWoman718]

 At the risk of sounding terribly politically incorrect, I always say that if you think a fur coat is merely a luxury, you've never lived through a bad Chicago winter... ;-)    A down coat is pretty good, but when it's ten below, there's nothing like a full length fur.  You wouldn't believe the difference.  Mine was raccoon, which was downscale enough to be appropriate to wear to the office in a bank.  Walking those windy city streets, and armed also with lined boots and gloves, wool hat, and a scarf to cover the lower half of my face, well, you could almost believe spring might eventually come.  The coat was, as you'd expect, a gift from my husband, and eventually got handed down to a daughter who also ended up in Chicago years later. 

Of course, I was raised in an area and an era where gun ownership and hunting were common.  But even if I hadn't been, I'm not sure any scruples against wearing fur would have held once I experienced the difference in warmth for myself.  Mea culpa, but unrepentant, and now living in Phoenix where the question never comes up.  

[eadieburke]

jb70 wrote:

I remember when I was little my grandmother had a stole made from a mink I think and the head was still attatched as part of it and that thing creeped me out.  Once I realized that fur came from an animal and it had to die so someone could wear it i stopped having any desire to wear or have anything fur.  I am continually surprised by seeing people wearing fur coats.  When it was necessary for people to survive and they used the animal in its entirety I see no problem with hunting or even trapping if it was a survival thing, but to kill an animal to be an object seems wrong.  My family has quite a few hunters, but I've never had any desire to do so.  One of my cousins who is much older than I am cried the first time he went hunting and either shot a deer or saw the deer being shot and, even though he is now in his fifties and this was when he was a teeneager, they still sometimes tease him about it.  I don't think hunting is any proof of manliness, but I know that is how Jack sees it.

 Do you feel the same way about leather shoes?

[Linnnniee]

High five to CAG! I sooo agree with you on this! He is selfish and self-centered!

[Linnnniee]

RE: The animals are helpless victims. It was especially hard to read about the poor fox.  I love wildlife and am actively a supporter of various animals causes, especially wlidlife.  I had tears in my eyes when Mike asked his callous Dad why he couldnt have just shot the wolf.  I like Mike because he has a real caring for animals and respects the law.  I think Mike became a game warden to do the right thing; to help balance what his Dad does in poaching. 

I fee the same way.. It was very upsetting to me what happens to the fox.

[jb70]

eadieburke wrote:

jb70 wrote:

I remember when I was little my grandmother had a stole made from a mink I think and the head was still attatched as part of it and that thing creeped me out.  Once I realized that fur came from an animal and it had to die so someone could wear it i stopped having any desire to wear or have anything fur.  I am continually surprised by seeing people wearing fur coats.  When it was necessary for people to survive and they used the animal in its entirety I see no problem with hunting or even trapping if it was a survival thing, but to kill an animal to be an object seems wrong.  My family has quite a few hunters, but I've never had any desire to do so.  One of my cousins who is much older than I am cried the first time he went hunting and either shot a deer or saw the deer being shot and, even though he is now in his fifties and this was when he was a teeneager, they still sometimes tease him about it.  I don't think hunting is any proof of manliness, but I know that is how Jack sees it.

 Do you feel the same way about leather shoes?

I actually don't own too many leather pairs of shoes. Especially none that I have bough recently. I always hope that the leather came from a cow that was already being used for food so it is a way to put more of the animal to use (but I could be deluding myself).

[CharlieG31]

From my point of view the scene in which we see Mike and Jack checking traps when Mike is still a child shows one part of Mikes lfie that seems to be a part where Mikes relationship with his father begins to distance from each other.

In the beginning of the chapter we see Mikes dad not caring about him being sick and decides to take him out and even lets the cold air in which clearly complicates Mikes sickness. In this part we see how Mikes dad is using his I dont care attitude and he is trying to show how tough he is. Mike just follows his dad scared around and sees the traps and how his father kills the animals which clearly marks Mike especially the fox and the way his dad kills it .

When they are on the way back Jack talks about the love he has for Mikes mother and how she does not appreciate it . From my point of view this is one of the key points of the story , this is a childhood keypoint concerning his relationship with his father and the other keypoint is when he goes as a teenage with his dad to the trip, this are key points in which at first when hes a kid you see how Mike never had the image of the perfect dad and how it seemed as if his dad did not care about him , and in the second part when he goes to the trip we see how Mike tries to look and act tough so his father wont ignore him or criticize him.

[Sheltiemama]

I think the bear represents Jack. After Mike kills it, he sees it's just the size of a man, not some behemoth. I loved the description of the doughut- and bacon-logged raccoon waddling off. Very funny.

Mike respects nature. Jack wants to destroy parts of it. He didn't have to kill that deer that night when Mike was a teenager. He just wanted to thumb his nose at authority.

[Valerietexier]

That was a hard part for me to read. The lack of respect for the life of these animals, seen only as some kind of money exchange. The life of a muskrat for 1 dollar...

Paul, your descriptions were very vivid, I could see and feel the pain of the raccoon for example, wishing vainly for him to find a way to escape.

It's another way of life you make me discover through your book

[sarah_in_ca]

The animals in the story seem to be victims with little personality.  They just happen to get caught in human traps or get in the way of human occupation of their territory.  The bear is drawn to human presence, pigs and chickens, smells coming from the kitchen, and a trap set up using attractive scents, and is untimately killed for being a bear.

Mike has great respect for nature and its inhabitants, and, as a Game Warden, his job is to protect the wildlife from humans and humans from wildlife.  He'd rather relocate an problem animal than kill it.  He protects the deer, moose, and elk as best he can by checking hunting licenses and keeping his ears and eyes open for poachers.  Jack, on the other hand, believes the animals are there for the taking and poaching and trapping off season is acceptable, as long as he doesn't get caught.  This tells a lot about how each man respects themselves and life in general.

[Anna_Louise]

The animals in the story don't really have personalities per say.  Jack is just using the animals for whatever he can and again it goes to show how cruel, mean and self-centered a man he truly is.  However, Mike has a true concern for the animals and this shows when he goes looking for the hurt bear.