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pen21
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I am also thinking the DeSalle parts of the book is connected to the murder. Who are these people and who brought them in. I think there will be a link here to who set up Jack's father.

Also the encounter in this section with DeSalle, I think Mike was correct in what he did. Mike knew it would get him into trouble, but had to do the right thing. And Mike did have witnesses that saw what happened. I was surprised Mike didn't tell his superior that there were witnesses to what happened.

I am also wondering why his superior's would care about the DeSalle complaint. I think they should listen to both sides. There are not that many game wardens, why would they want Mike to walk away from DeSalle. Who is putting pressure on the game wardens to ignore DeSalle and Nappi?

pen21

 

 

thewanderingjew wrote:

I would like to think that DeSalle is part of the murder conspiracy, part of the group attempting to frame Mike's dad. I would like to see him get caught and get his comeuppance for his superior obnoxious attitude and behavior. Yet, I would hate to think of his son also having to deal with a crooked parent. Having a verbally abusive, pompous and thoughtless father was surely enough for him to deal with, I think.

There are similarities between DeSalle and Mike's dad. Both are irresponsible and although DeSalle, at first blush, doesn't seem as reckless as Mike's dad, i.e, taking him with him in inclement weather while he was sick causing him to get pneumonia, he doesn't appear to be very interested in the boy's safety and doesn't provide equipment to protect him. It is a thin line that prevents him from being as reckless and that is the fact that the son returns without injury.

 

Perhaps Mike is so bent on teaching DeSalle a lesson because he sees the abuse and neglect the boy is suffering from and realizes the potential danger with which he identifies.

 

 

Rachel-K wrote:

Please use any of the following questions to stir up discussion, or feel free to post your own questions for the group!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

There are any number of people that might want to frame Mike's dad for the murder of the executive of Wendigo Timber. The locals who have been leased land by APP and will lose it feel cheated. The purchasers feel unfairly attacked with unrealistic expectations, the businessmen operating on the land will lose their livelihood and so will their workers who will lose their jobs so they are angry as well. He has made many enemies over the years. He has not been a pillar of society and has pushed every envelope to its limits, breaking laws and minor regulations at will. He has taunted the Game Warden, Charley Stevens, the police officers who have arrested him in the past and they have personal vendettas against him, even Pelletier knows his modus operandi. He has become the perfect scapegoat since he has not endeared many to him and therefore is easy to blame. If the powers that be think they can keep their land by getting rid of the thorn in their back, they just might find it their only choice even though to frame someone is reprehensible, especially for murder. Murder itself is unthinkable for me, but when you think that to these people, the value of life is less than the value of the land it is a horrible revelation.

 

 

Rachel-K wrote:

Please use any of the following questions to stir up discussion, or feel free to post your own questions for the group!

 

How central or distant does the takeover of the logging seem so far in the story? What role do these local politics play in the lives of the the residents here? Do you have any other possible suspects to consider?

 

 

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hookedonbooks09
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I will just hit on the Sarah aspect for now. 

 

I was kind of put off at Mike's treatment of Sarah when she showed up to try to lend support during his time of need.  (He actually reminded me of boyfriends I'd had in HS, who were a little childish and not very nice at times!)

 

Anyway, I think it took a lot of nerve for her to try to bridge their differences and come back to be there for him and while he seemed to realize this, he rebuilt the wall between them anyway.

 

All of that being said, I think we as humans, basically function within our frame of reference and Mike's frame of reference with regard to relationships is weak and broken to say the least!  How much can we expect of him, unless he can break out of the mold of his parents' example?

 

--Barb

 

 

Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. ~Groucho Marx
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T-Mo
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

[ Edited ]

Do you have any other possible suspects to consider?

 

I think Russell Pelletier should definitely be considered a suspect. He has a lot to lose. He had no reason to mention to Mike that he was at that meeting but his reaction when Mike brought it up definitely sheds suspicion on him.

 

In Mike's scenes so far with Anthony Desalle--who's got the bigger attitude? Is Mike in the right? Is Mike any better at communicating with the people he's close to?

 

The scenes between Mike and DeSalle really make me dislike Mike. He just acts so pompous. Why is he harassing him? Why isn’t he affording DeSalle’s son the same courtesy that Charlie Stevens showed Mike when he was younger? That was obviously one lesson Mike didn’t learn. It seems that as the stress of his father’s situation grows, Mike’s ability to handle himself appropriately continues to falter. His ability to communicate with those close to him is just as bad. His treatment of Sarah is deplorable. He barely acts as if he wants her there, yet his personal thoughts say otherwise. Unfortunately I wasn’t convinced, and his comments to her the morning after their tryst further increased my dislike for him. At this point I like Jack better than I do Mike. 

 

We meet Mike's mother in these chapters--what is your impression of her?

 

I thought it was great that Mike’s mother revealed that she had maintained contact with Jack after all these years. I think that is a precursor to finding out good things about Jack. I’m certainly sitting on the edge of my seat awaiting the next section. 

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Lil_Irish_Lass
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I think it was very selfish on Sarah's part to show up thinking that Mike needed her to help him get through it. A "he needs me" mentality more than a "I can help him" one - she's focused in on herself and fulfilling her needs over helping others.

Sure feelings don't just end when a relationship does, but she left him - therefore she has little right to show up and expect a warm welcome or for him to open up to her. But to me, that's how I read her character... as being selfish (SHE wants Mike to go to law school, SHE wants the nice home and the social status) and while there is nothing wrong with her leaving to gain that, it is wrong of her to try and force Mike into a lifestyle that he doesn't want just because she wants it.

I think Mike tried to be noble (knowing he wanted her to stay but that it would play out the same way again and he didn't want to hurt her), but couple alcohol, lack of sleep, and strenuous emotions, and you can't blame him for giving in to her advances.

I also feel that given the circumstances of recently finding out his father is the main suspect in a cop killing gives him a free pass for not being all warm and fuzzy to Sarah. Dead beat Dad or not, it's still his father and Mike knows Jack didn't do it and wants to help - that means more than Sarah's desires to feel needed by Mike by coming up to "help him" get through it.

 

I do agree that Mike's relationship with Sarah is a classic case of how a child growing up with dysfunctional parents will grow up to have their own dysfunctional relationships since that's what they know of as normal.

 

hookedonbooks09 wrote:

I will just hit on the Sarah aspect for now. 

 

I was kind of put off at Mike's treatment of Sarah when she showed up to try to lend support during his time of need.  (He actually reminded me of boyfriends I'd had in HS, who were a little childish and not very nice at times!)

 

Anyway, I think it took a lot of nerve for her to try to bridge their differences and come back to be there for him and while he seemed to realize this, he rebuilt the wall between them anyway.

 

All of that being said, I think we as humans, basically function within our frame of reference and Mike's frame of reference with regard to relationships is weak and broken to say the least!  How much can we expect of him, unless he can break out of the mold of his parents' example?

 

--Barb

 

 

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"No sensible man ever engages, unprepared, in a fencing match of words with a woman." - The Woman in White
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nbmars
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I like the theory that Mike goes after DeSalle because "There are similarities between DeSalle and Mike's dad."  That hadn't occurred to me, although I disagree with the comments that suggest Mike is a jerk for harrassing DeSalle.  To me, Mike is doing his job, and it is DeSalle that is the jerk.  But you're right - Mike keeps focussing on the little kid, and maybe at least in his subconscious he is able to lash out against his dad for ignoring him, treating him poorly, etc.

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dhaupt
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

thewanderingjew wrote:

I would like to think that DeSalle is part of the murder conspiracy, part of the group attempting to frame Mike's dad. I would like to see him get caught and get his comeuppance for his superior obnoxious attitude and behavior. Yet, I would hate to think of his son also having to deal with a crooked parent. Having a verbally abusive, pompous and thoughtless father was surely enough for him to deal with, I think.


 

My feelings exactly. He's just a sleazy easy guy to hate.

 

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Bonnie_C
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Suspects:  I think at this point not only Russ Pelletier, but also the flies are buzzing around Truman Dellis (who thought nothing of pointing a gun at Charley Stevens). Officer Twombley and the bald headed guy Jack referred to as a "paranoid military freak".  I can't decide if DeSalle is mixed up in the murder or if he's there just for color.

 

Anthony DeSalle:  I find it interesting that Mike is such a by the book game warden that he won't drink a beer in his uniform even in his own home when he is off duty.  Yet he will confront DeSalle for the 2nd time when apparently that's a big no-no in the hand book.  I think his father's arrest has sent him on a course of reckless behavior.  I would also like to give Mike the benefit of the doubt and think he has the boy's best interest at heart (I'm still not convinced this is DeSalle's son). 

 

Sarah:  I still have not warmed up to the idea of Mike and Sarah actually being in love.  I think Sarah's visit was for more than just to make sure Mike was all right.  I think she misses Mike and is lonely and she is quite nosy.  She wants to know the scoop on Jack.

 

Mike has his faults in the romance department but what you see is what you get.  He is painfully honest with Sarah.  He tells her he wants to be a game warden and will not become a lawyer.  He also tells her that after she got drunk he took advantage of her.  He goes on to say that the 2 of them have no future. 

 

The Mom:  Here is a lady with not a whole lot going for her.  She finally got the courage to take her son and make a better life for the 2 of them.  I can't really blame her for not wanting anything to destroy the life she has built up for herself.  I did find it interesting that she keeps in contact with Jack.

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Bonnie824
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

hookedonbooks09 wrote:

I will just hit on the Sarah aspect for now. 

 

I was kind of put off at Mike's treatment of Sarah when she showed up to try to lend support during his time of need.  (He actually reminded me of boyfriends I'd had in HS, who were a little childish and not very nice at times!)

 

Anyway, I think it took a lot of nerve for her to try to bridge their differences and come back to be there for him and while he seemed to realize this, he rebuilt the wall between them anyway.

 

All of that being said, I think we as humans, basically function within our frame of reference and Mike's frame of reference with regard to relationships is weak and broken to say the least!  How much can we expect of him, unless he can break out of the mold of his parents' example?

 

--Barb

 

 

I agree Barb, she made the effort and he didn't, I really dont' think he loves her. He seems to think they wanted different things (they did) but didn't care enough to compromise even a little.

 

Bonnie

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kleeGA
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

• The logging takeover seems more of a background in the story than a main point. It could be a reason behind the killings, but I think that it isn’t really a main part of that. I think it’s more of a red herring. It’s too easy to blame the murders on that. The takeover plays a major part in the residents’ lives because it threatens to take away everything that they know including their homes and jobs. There are a number of suspects in the town because everyone seems to be affected by this change.

 

• Mike seems to think that he is more like the tourists than the locals, but he doesn’t seem to relate all that well to the tourists either. Most of this is of his own making.

 

• The bigger attitude definitely belongs to Desalle. He is entirely over the top and seriously needs some anger management classes. Although Mike does seem to be picking on him a bit, he is still in the right. He is there for the boy’s safety which is obviously not a concern of Desalle. Mike is no better at communicating to the people he is close to than he is with Desalle. He doesn’t know how to express himself that well. He keeps too much in. The second time he encounters Desalle, he should have just let it go. It’s interesting that he sticks to the rules so much, but refuses to abide by them when he wants to.

 

• I don’t really have much of an impression of Sarah. At this point, it is difficult to tell if she is strong for leaving Mike or just scared. Either way, I think Mike drove her away more than she simply left.

 

• I think that Mike’s mother tried to do what she could with the situation that she had. She loved Jack, but you can only take so much. A marriage is an equal partnership. They practically lived two separate lives. She seems to be a loving and caring mother and tried to be the same as a wife, but Jack would not allow it.

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maxcat
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

In Mike's altercations with DeSalle, DeSalle has the bigger attitude pretending to befull of it. Mike has been very much within the laws of the game warden to give the guy a citation and he is courteous about it. I think Mike tries to push the buttons on DeSalle the second time around when he is caught with not enough life jackets again. Mike does hold his temper and is courteous. I feel sorry for the kid as he's caught in the middle of this mess, Someone mentioned about DeSalle being caught in a conspiracy to frame his dad. It's possible but it would have to be someone Mike knows that is the link. Someone who maybe owes this guy money and will do anything to pay his debt.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
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Meandmoose
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 I don't think Mike really fits in with the tourists or the locals. He has set himself apart from people. It seems that he keeps trying to break through the emotional distance between himself and his father, but repeats the pattern by distancing himself emotionally from everyone around him.

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

kleeGA wrote:

...edited by twj....

I think that Mike’s mother tried to do what she could with the situation that she had. She loved Jack, but you can only take so much. A marriage is an equal partnership. They practically lived two separate lives. She seems to be a loving and caring mother and tried to be the same as a wife, but Jack would not allow it.

Mike's mom thought she was marrying someone with ambition who would be upwardly mobile but Mike's dad  was stultified by his Viet Nam war experience and he wanted to opt out of life, to a large degree, without anyone giving him orders. We can only imagine the horrific orders soldiers had to obey during that war...and then to come home to a country that treated them shamefully was salt on the wound.

 

 

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JuneC
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

 

Compare life for the tourists and life for most of the locals. How does Mike fit in?

 

As in many touristy towns, I feel a love /hate relationship develops.  The locals need the tourists to bump up the economy, yet they may feel their lives are being infringed upon. Perhaps like houseguests that overstay their welcome.

Who doesn't breath a sigh of relief when the door closes?

Tourist often have a fleeting relationship with the town and the enviornment so it stands to reason they are not as interested in the politics of the area.

Mike appears to be somewhere in the middle right now. He would like to be considered a local but he's "from away".  It will take time for him to win the affections of the residents and feel completely welcomed at the coffee shop.

 

?

 

 

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JuneC
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

Rachel-K wrote:

Do you have much impression of Mike's ex-girlfriend, Sarah?

 

Sarah seems to be a practical person in the fact that she feels Mike's job as a Warden will not be a financially successful one. A romantic she's not.  Money and prestigious career first, love next.  I don't think they are well suited.

 

 

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nymazz
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

JuneC wrote:

 

 

Compare life for the tourists and life for most of the locals. How does Mike fit in?

 

As in many touristy towns, I feel a love /hate relationship develops.  The locals need the tourists to bump up the economy, yet they may feel their lives are being infringed upon. Perhaps like houseguests that overstay their welcome.

Who doesn't breath a sigh of relief when the door closes?

Yeah, I never realized I had so many close relatives until I moved to Florida. haha.. 

 

 

 

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are. -Mason Cooley-
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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

[ Edited ]

 

dhaupt wrote (excerpt):
.....
Maybe we should give him [Mike] a copy of Women are from Venus and Men are from Mars.....

 

LOL! :smileyvery-happy:

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

Lil_Irish_Lass wrote (excerpt):

...........

I also can't blame Mike for how he handled the Desalle incident. The guy's what those of us in NH/Maine would classify as a stereotypical MA jerk. They're the ones who drive gas guzzling SUVs at break-neck speeds, they litter, they have no regard for those around them, nor do they seem to actually appreciate the nature they drove to in order to "escape the city" for a weekend. I would have had a hard time not pushing Desalle's buttons again in hopes of him getting completely out of line so that I could arrest him as a way to teach him a lesson. Then again, I have the stereotypical Irish temper and it gets the best of me sometimes. :smileyhappy:

TPS is getting GOOOOOOD though! It was really hard to put the book down after I finished chapter 18, but I'm trying to stick with the reading schedule.

SSS....I just lost a post again and I had forgotten to save before hitting "Post."

 

Anyway, to repeat, as a former NE resident (who had moved there as a young adult) and who has continued to return as tourist, I laughed at and related to your comments about DeSalle.  All the tensions are real, tangible, fraught, and yet readily too facilely exaggerated. 

 

Since I didn't have your self discipline and let the story carry me to the ending (2 a.m.), I shall have to be mum or at least very careful this week!  :smileysad:

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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becke_davis
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

How central or distant does the takeover of the logging seem so far in the story? What role do these local politics play in the lives of the the residents here? Do you have any other possible suspects to consider?

 

While I think that ultimately the takeover will be critical to the story, up to this point we've been distracted by so many other things in Mike's life, even things like the bear. But in a town like this, the whole economy is dependent on local industries like the logging, so politics is likely to be bound up with the logging. At this point, I suspect everybody of everything. 

 

Compare life for the tourists and life for most of the locals. How does Mike fit in?

 

Mike is a part of the local life, but his background and his father set him apart from the others.


In Mike's scenes so far with Anthony Desalle--who's got the bigger attitude? Is Mike in the right? Is Mike any better at communicating with the people he's close to?

 

Tough call. I would say Anthony DeSalle, but not by much. Mike strikes me as someone who is balanced on the edge, and it won't take much before he blows sky high.

 

Do you have much impression of Mike's ex-girlfriend, Sarah?

 

I don't think either of them are one hundred percent ready to move on, but I don't think that means they've got a basis to build from. I think it's more that they are afraid to let go.

 

We meet Mike's mother in these chapters--what is your impression of her?

 

She is still something of a non-person to me. She doesn't seem to be nearly as much of an influence as Mike's father is.

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MrsMc
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Anthony DeSalle definitely rubs Warden Mike Bowditch the wrong way. Mike takes his job very seriously and goes by the rule book. From the get go, DeSalle had a bad attitude with Mike. Mike was very calm in his position during their first confrontation. He saw Jack in DeSalle and himself in DeSalle's son. And, after learning that DeSalle had complained to his superior about that day, Mike's attitude toward DeSalle took a definite turn toward showing him that he wouldn't allow him to get away with going behind his back like that. If the couple hadn't of been within earshot of that second confrontation, Mike would have lost control and blown a fuse! DeSalle is pushing Mike's buttons, but Mike wants DeSalle to know that he won't be pushed around...that he is the game warden there. While he can sure try to get his point across to those that he comes in contact with through work, he has a difficult time trying to open up and communicate with those that he is close to. He shuts down or shuts them out.

 

Sarah and Mike's Mom have some similiar qualities. They both had higher expectations of what they wanted out of life. They each wanted their men to focus on their marraige and doing better financially. Each wanted a different life filled with all the things that they wanted to make them happy. Both also have a hard time communicating what they want. They each still focus time on taking care of their ex'es. And, they know them better than anyone else. Like Sarah said about knowing how Mike really feels about his Dad. Sarah felt the need to check in on Mike and definitely still loves him because she wound up staying the night. Yet, she still can't communicate her feelings well enough to him and leaves the next morning in a rush to avoid ill conversation. Mike's Mom took on the role of a co-dependent with his Dad...and she is somewhat still in that position with him in the story. Deep-down, she still has feelings for him...they share a son...but, she knows that she can never have the lifestyle that she has now (being married to a tax attorney) if she was still with her ex-husband. She called Mike to come over after she found out about his Dad. She told him how his Dad still calls her after all these years and how they talk...yet, she keeps this from her husband...very interesting. She also said that she knows in their last conversation, just by the tone of his voice, how scared he is. Mike's Mom then tells Mike that he needs to use his position to do something in order to save his Dad. Once again, putting Mike in the "hero" or "caretaker" role. But, by the way he went over to sit by his mother during their conversation and told her that she could call him to talk to him, he definitely cares for his mother...this surprised me that he was able to show this much compassion toward her when he has such a difficult time expressing his feelings.