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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

Bonnie_C wrote (excerpt):

...........

 

The Mom:  Here is a lady with not a whole lot going for her.  She finally got the courage to take her son and make a better life for the 2 of them.  I can't really blame her for not wanting anything to destroy the life she has built up for herself.  I did find it interesting that she keeps in contact with Jack.

 

Isn't that first sentence a little tough on her?  I haven't personally warmed to her -- her continued contact with Jack troubles me, although I know at least some women seem to be able to keep contact with their ex's without endangering their present relationship.  But, it seems to me that it took a fair amount of guts for this gal who fell for a Vietnam vet, got pregnant, and found herself trapped in a troublesome life to up and leave and create a new life for herself and her son.  It doesn't sound as if everything was roses and strawberries with cream; she and her present husband may have some pride and privacy they want to protect (with justification), and they seem to lean towards the materialistic.  Still, walking out of a bad situation with a man who apparently had some considerable charm with women seems like it must have taken some kind of rather fierce backbone. 

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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kaylami
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

How central or distant does the takeover of the logging seem so far in the story? What role do these local politics play in the lives of the the residents here? Do you have any other possible suspects to consider?    The logging takeover seems a little distant.  Sometimes I forget why someone was murdered.  The local politics play an extreme role in the lives of the residents.  Some of them live in the woods full time...which was permitted by the former logging company.  Also some of the tourist areas may be compromised.  This is how many locals survive.  I think there are three or four other suspects, but nothing solid yet.

 

Compare life for the tourists and life for most of the locals. How does Mike fit in?  I think Mike is lost somewhere in the middle.  He's not a tourist, and even though the locals try to draw him in, he isn't comfortable as a local either.

 

In Mike's scenes so far with Anthony Desalle--who's got the bigger attitude? Is Mike in the right? Is Mike any better at communicating with the people he's close to?  I'm not sure if Anthony Desalle's attitude's bigger than Mike's, but it's definitely louder.  Mike is in the right, but he's also very black and white.  I noticed he whipped out that citation book pretty fast.  He doesn't ever consider giving the guy a "warning" or a chance to get things right.  True, Anthony's boisterous attitude didn't help.  Mike is horrible at communication.  He's very closed.

 

Do you have much impression of Mike's ex-girlfriend, Sarah? I think she loves him and misses him, but Mike is just too hard to live with.  He keeps himself closed off to a lot of emotion...guarding himself.  I think he shut Sarah out and chased her away because he is afraid their relationship will end up just like his parents'.  He doesn't have plans for a career rather than game warden, and feels it's better for her to leave now than later when it will hurt even more.  (Ok..side note.  I thought Sarah was his wife, too.  But I can't find the passage that makes me think that.)

 

We meet Mike's mother in these chapters--what is your impression of her?  I think she was very brave to leave a man she loved.  She knew things would never get better...only worse.  She was strong to leave and try to make a good life for Mike.

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Darbys_Closet
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Hi Everyone,

 

I have many thoughts/observations to share and pardon me if I sway from the discussion questions, yet I will try to cover those as well.

1.  The logging situation......horrible, yet big money for those who support the change while on the other hand devastation is in store for the locals.  To bad "they" didn't offer alternative housing for those to be affected, along with job opportunities and perhaps training for these folks in order to improve their job skills/self-confidence.  Poor Marketing/or NO marketing.....yet  so typical of "corp.. America".........one vision with blinders on concerning those harmed or injured by the intrusion.

2.  The situation on the lake with the Father and Son, I see as Mike's outlet for his anger......he see's his Father in this man, ie:  drunk, law breaking, careless, and pays no attention to his son or his well being.  Picking a fight with this individual is a way of striking out at his Father; a striking out he never followed through on as a young boy, teen or adult...until now.

The other way he strikes out towards his Father is through his "fight and flight" attitude in his relationship with Sarah.  He thinks he is happy being a loner, yet subconsciously being a loner is another way to "punish" his Father........"Hey Dad, I am lonely and miserable just like you... Happy?"  He is distant from his Mother, because her vision of "success" was not ingrained into him as a child......the only behaviors ingrained were those he viewed his Father doing, for his Father's behaviors/habits gained him a lot of attention, from his Mother, the locals and the law.

His Father rebuked this attention and his Mother fled from it, yet to Mike.......this attention was his Dad..........the only Dad he knew, the Dad he so desperately craved attention and acceptance from as a youth and currently as an adult.

3.  Okay, what was the other question?  I knew this would happen.....I can't remember the other point of discussion............... : }

 

4.  What I do want to share is that I LOVED the love scene between Mike and Sarah.....wa-la, yes!

5.  The Bear....... He despises the man who made him do the only humane thing possible which was to kill the injured bear.  He goes after the bear by himself all the while knowing he is acting like a fool.... A stupid fool.  Yet his acting in this manner is his way of striking out/fighting back against all that has gone wrong in his life (according to him).  I believe Mike became an animal "savior" in order to make right his Father's "wrongs".

6.  I think the Father was framed and the reason he was singled out was because he has a drinking problem, constantly on the outside of the law and running...Always running.  I don't believe "they" thought Mike would become involved since he and his Father's relationship had become so distant.  I think the "they" who are behind the logging development are........

Mike's Father's boss and the Police Sergeant.  The police in this story (or at least some of them) have to be dirty, for they have never given Mike's Dad a chance to defend himself or at least a chance to consider him as anything other than the guilty party.

 

Well, that's all for now....time to go read! ;-*

Darby

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Vermontcozy
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Vermont Cozy Wrote :  I am very suspicious of the DeSalle character.I am seriously thinking that even though he seems like the most likely to be a threat to what the takeover is all about,I am not sure yet if he is just a"Flamboyant" tourist,or part of the takeover.Mike was just doing his job as a Warden.The second encounter,could've been avoided,but Mike's anger is surfacing,due to his  fathers arrest...I am finding it difficult to trust anyone.Rumors,innuendos,people are frightened..Will their way of life be over?....Mike's love for Sarah is totally overshadowed by his concern for his father,which probably had something to do with their breakup..He stays close to what he knows and will not let other's in.He is fragile,but strong willed,and damaged.But I have high hopes for Mike,given his age..Mike's mother has secrets,I am not sure if her "perfect" life is all that she is revealing.I do not dislike her,just curious where she will take us in the story.So far.I must add Pauls Maine is just beautiful,and "The Poachers Son" makes me as a reader want more,so I am glad this will be a Series to look forward to...Susan...

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Bonnie_C
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Peppermill wrote:

 

Bonnie_C wrote (excerpt):

...........

 

The Mom:  Here is a lady with not a whole lot going for her.  She finally got the courage to take her son and make a better life for the 2 of them.  I can't really blame her for not wanting anything to destroy the life she has built up for herself.  I did find it interesting that she keeps in contact with Jack.

 

Isn't that first sentence a little tough on her?  I haven't personally warmed to her -- her continued contact with Jack troubles me, although I know at least some women seem to be able to keep contact with their ex's without endangering their present relationship.  But, it seems to me that it took a fair amount of guts for this gal who fell for a Vietnam vet, got pregnant, and found herself trapped in a troublesome life to up and leave and create a new life for herself and her son.  It doesn't sound as if everything was roses and strawberries with cream; she and her present husband may have some pride and privacy they want to protect (with justification), and they seem to lean towards the materialistic.  Still, walking out of a bad situation with a man who apparently had some considerable charm with women seems like it must have taken some kind of rather fierce backbone. 

 

 

Hi Peppermill,

I think you and I are on the exact same page.  I guess I should have said that in the beginning, this lady did not have a lot going right for her.  I most definitely applaud her courage in leaving a bad situation and creating a better life for her and her son.

Bonnie

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ethel55
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

How central or distant does the takeover of the logging seem so far in the story? What role do these local politics play in the lives of the the residents here? Do you have any other possible suspects to consider?

In some ways the logging/paper/corporate problem seems like a huge role in these people's lives, but yet they've been living with it so long, waiting to see what happens, it's kind of in the background too.

 

Compare life for the tourists and life for most of the locals. How does Mike fit in?

As a warden, Mike has to walk a fine line, upholding licenses and laws for tourists, but doing the same for the locals.  Look at his dealings with Mr. Thompson and the bear.

 

In Mike's scenes so far with Anthony Desalle--who's got the bigger attitude? Is Mike in the right? Is Mike any better at communicating with the people he's close to?

I was actually surprised Desalle made another appearance.  It seemed to distract from the story at hand at first, but then I decided that Mike's handling of the second incident showed how much upheaval he is in.  He can hardly handle the job right now.

 

Do you have much impression of Mike's ex-girlfriend, Sarah?

Not really sure. She certainly arrived for support when needed.

 

We meet Mike's mother in these chapters--what is your impression of her?

She seems very materialistic and happy with the life she wound up with, with lawyer Neil.  When Mike heads off to visit his father at 16, it's probably the best thing she could have allowed, especially when he made his own decision to cut the trip short.

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dhaupt
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

 

Bonnie824 wrote:

hookedonbooks09 wrote:

I will just hit on the Sarah aspect for now. 

 

I was kind of put off at Mike's treatment of Sarah when she showed up to try to lend support during his time of need.  (He actually reminded me of boyfriends I'd had in HS, who were a little childish and not very nice at times!)

 

Anyway, I think it took a lot of nerve for her to try to bridge their differences and come back to be there for him and while he seemed to realize this, he rebuilt the wall between them anyway.

 

All of that being said, I think we as humans, basically function within our frame of reference and Mike's frame of reference with regard to relationships is weak and broken to say the least!  How much can we expect of him, unless he can break out of the mold of his parents' example?

 

--Barb

 

 

I agree Barb, she made the effort and he didn't, I really dont' think he loves her. He seems to think they wanted different things (they did) but didn't care enough to compromise even a little.

 

Bonnie

 

 

See I didn't see Mike's or Sarah's actions like that. I really think they do love each other, but remember how young they are and like Barb mentioned up above what frame of reference Mike has to rely on. 

I think instead of showing Sarah how he really felt about her, he went back to the macho guy talk and acted like it didn't matter, because he was afraid that she'd leave him again because he's still not willing to become a lawyer, he loves being a Warden. While Sarah with her emotions on her sleeve went with her heart.

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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Bonnie -- thanks!  I understand better now what you were saying, I just initially read it a bit differently!

 

Bonnie_C wrote:

Peppermill wrote:

 

Bonnie_C wrote (excerpt):

...........

 

The Mom:  Here is a lady with not a whole lot going for her.  She finally got the courage to take her son and make a better life for the 2 of them.  I can't really blame her for not wanting anything to destroy the life she has built up for herself.  I did find it interesting that she keeps in contact with Jack.

 

Isn't that first sentence a little tough on her?  I haven't personally warmed to her -- her continued contact with Jack troubles me, although I know at least some women seem to be able to keep contact with their ex's without endangering their present relationship.  But, it seems to me that it took a fair amount of guts for this gal who fell for a Vietnam vet, got pregnant, and found herself trapped in a troublesome life to up and leave and create a new life for herself and her son.  It doesn't sound as if everything was roses and strawberries with cream; she and her present husband may have some pride and privacy they want to protect (with justification), and they seem to lean towards the materialistic.  Still, walking out of a bad situation with a man who apparently had some considerable charm with women seems like it must have taken some kind of rather fierce backbone. 

 

 

Hi Peppermill,

I think you and I are on the exact same page.  I guess I should have said that in the beginning, this lady did not have a lot going right for her.  I most definitely applaud her courage in leaving a bad situation and creating a better life for her and her son.

Bonnie

 

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Let's see now, Mike and Sarah were together for four years, starting when Mike was nineteen or twenty, given that he is now twenty-four?

 

(Lost this message the first time.)

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Bonnie_C
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

As I understand, this is the first book in a series.  So I would think some of the characters will be given the chance to evolve beyond this book, like Mike's mother.  This will also be true of the relationship of Sarah and Mike.  So we may just have to stay tuned.

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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

[ Edited ]

 

Bonnie_C wrote:

As I understand, this is the first book in a series.  So I would think some of the characters will be given the chance to evolve beyond this book, like Mike's mother.  This will also be true of the relationship of Sarah and Mike.  So we may just have to stay tuned.

 

I'd like to understand Mike's Dad better, too.  What gave him the charm he obviously had?  Maybe some tidbits about his family and how that influenced the ways he was (un)able to deal with the trauma of Vietnam on his return. Or ....

 

Maybe Mike's story will be a bit like how Lisabeth Salander is revealed in successive novels by Steig Larsson?!

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Amanda-Louise
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18 (my thoughts)

Chapter 8 I find the thread about DeSalle interesting. I'm quite curious where this will go and what ramifications it will have on Mike and the story. I also like that Mike does not paint his father in a glowing light like many of this 'style' do. Mike has no illusions as to what his father is capable of. He just feels that this act is beyond his father. In this chapter it seems as though Mike's life is totally at a tipping point. His marriage is supposedly dissolving, his work may warrant an investigation, and, well, his father either committed a crime Mike never thought him capable of, or he didn't. It will be interesting to see which way the balance shifts. Chapter 9 It's interesting that Mike seems to be slightly clueless as to how the investigation goes (or will go). He has little experience in this area of police work. How will this affect the story? Will it be to his advantage or determent? Chapter 10 This is all so edge-of-your seat! I love how the author is able to keep everyone in the dark. No overt hints anywhere. I found this passage most curious: "....I remember how crestfallen I was to hear afterwards about Arnold's treason at West Point. How could my hero have become a traitor? .....I thought about all the lessons we fail to learn from history." This makes me wonder who will be the traitor in this story? Chapter 11 I'm surprised that someone would suggest that Twombley carry mike back home. Would that not be at the very least a conflict of interest and bordering on a recipe for disaster? The people running the investigation are so 'by the book' to keep Mike distanced from the investigation and then they do something like that? Odd. Then, the animal graveyard (or mass grave) Mike keeps in his backyard - I wonder if that will come in to play later somehow? Chapter 12 This chapter is interesting in that we see more of the relationship between Mike and his father, but we also meet Mike's mother. I wonder how they ever ended up together to begin with - she seems ambitious and the opposite of Mike's father. I found the violence towards the animals upsetting. I did see pneumonia as the only possible outcome of the outing into the woods. However, I'm a bit confused at the end. Jack is crying. I feel this is more for himself (blame?) than his son. How can he possibly leave his child alone in a hospital room? Chapter 13 It seems as though Mike is becoming an outcast. Is this fair? Why should he pay for his father's alleged crimes? I'm not certain this would be my natural response to someone in the same situation. Chapter 14 I guess we've figured out that Mike is the traitor referred to earlier. He either has to betray his father or his profession. Chapter 15 So is DeSalle just a punching bag/release for Mike or is he really going to take Mike's job from him? Or is there another option for the DeSalle thread? Chapter 16 The end of the bear. Mike seems to be spinning out of control as seen in his assault on the bear baiter. Chapter 17 There are a few things in this chapter I find disturbing. Mike's mother seems to have moved on from his father and Mike. She took Mike with her physically but it appears emotionally she was unable to. Mike is a part of her old life. I found Mike's realization that his mother has a part of her life that Mike isn't privy to funny. I can remember (vaguely) this epiphany in my own life but it was long before 24. I also find it odd that Mike is surprised that his mother and stepfather wont help his Dad. What does he expect them to do? They are so far removed from Jack and it would be strange since his mother & step-father seem to be all about appearances that they would reach out in this instance. One thing that struck me about this chapter is that it revealed how totally alone Mike really is. He comes to the house where he was raised to visit his parents and they have him in as though he's a neighbour come to discuss the problem of raccoons getting into the garbage cans. There is no sense of family or warmth at all. I don't think they offered him a drink much less a home-cooked meal. Chapter 18 It becomes obvious what an inconvenience this child (Mike) is to both his parents. And the DeSalle conflict is mirrored in the conflict between Stephen's and his Dad.
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Peppermill
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18 (my thoughts)

[ Edited ]

 

Amanda-Louise wrote:

........
I found this passage most curious: "....I remember how crestfallen I was to hear afterwards about Arnold's treason at West Point. How could my hero have become a traitor? .....I thought about all the lessons we fail to learn from history." This makes me wonder who will be the traitor in this story?

 

I remember reading something recently and tracing back Benedict Arnold's story and realizing what a courageous soldier he had been.  My sense of history is weak enough that my primary memory was his role as traitor.  My understanding is still ambiguous enough that I don't think I fully grasp the allusions Dioron is making here.

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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poirotNY
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

In Mike's scenes so far with Anthony Desalle--who's got the bigger attitude?

I think they both have an attitude. Yes, Mike is a nice guy, but he also walks around with a chip on his shoulder.  He's trying so hard to be "not" like his father, he winds up being more like him than he cares to admit.  He's emotionally unavailable, and pushs people away who want to help him.  Mike also is out to prove something, and he's taking on the nothing will get in my way attitude.

 

 Is Mike in the right? Is Mike any better at communicating with the people he's close to?

Mike is a difficult communicator.  He has feelings, but is unable to convey those feelings to others, such as Sarah.  Sarah did make the mistake though, of thinking she could change Mike.  Mike had told her his plans, and Sarah thought she would be able to persuade Mike to go a different route. 

 

  

We meet Mike's mother in these chapters--what is your impression of her?

The mother is a piece of work; she still loves her ex-husband, but he did not fit into her social climbing agenda.  I'm sure her Ex was a difficult man to live with, particularly after the war, but she still has feelings for him.  She clearly wanted what she perceived as a better life, but I am sure she did not count on still having feelings for the Ex after all these years. Unfortunately, it seems that Mike was caught up in the middle of his parents feelings towards each other.

 

In regards to logging, I think the story is indicative of what happens a lot these days - big business takes over and makes changes, which may not always be good for the community.Many of these peoples' families were there for years and this was the life they knew. To have it changed was a shock to the system.

 

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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Forgot - my impression of Sarah:

I think she suffers from what a lot of people do - you think you can change someone.  This rarely happens, and in real life, people only make changes if the person themselves want to change.  She knew from the get-go what Mike wanted to do.  Sarah also had reasons for worrying if the salary Mike would make would be sufficient, due to her parents financial issues, but she is also conflicted. She is like Mike's mother - it's like a cycle of life repeating itself.

Both women love men who are emotionally unavailable and unwilling to try and pursue a life that will make them (the women) more financially comfortable.

Clearly, Mike is his father and Sarah is his mother - the only question is whether their relationship will turn out the same.

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maxcat
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I'd like to post one on suspects. First, it might be Pelletier as he seems to have a lot at stake in losing his business. He, to me , is not someone who would be easy to talk to  about anything.

Second, you know in a murder mystery, it's going to be someone you don't suspect. But I am having a feeling that Charley Stevens might be a suspect. He helps out by flying the plane around in the wilderness to spot Jack. But he seems to be genuinely nice about hanging around Mike. He knew something was going on when Mike's dad had poached a deer and had it in his cabin. But he never said anything about it.

Then there's Truman Dellis who was poaching with Jack. He is a mean character and wants nothing to do with the right side of the law.

These are just some suspects I've questioned in my mind that they could really do harm.

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mamawli
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Mike does not communicate well with people that he is close with.  I see a parallel between Mike's relationship with Sarah and his mothers relationship with his father.  Sarah calls him to reach out to him when she finds out about his father and he ignores her.  His mother still speaks to his dad since he calls her when he is usually drunk.

 

Mike's mother leaves the relationship with Jack to better both her life and that of Mike's.  While Mike is confused about his life with his father, he chooses to get back to his roots.  He tries to make his life better by being on the side of the law.

 

Mike and Anthony Desalle remind me of Mike and his dad.  However, the second time that mike meets up with Desalle, he has another man with him as well as his son.  Similar to Mike's dad and his friend meeting up with the law enforcement officer.  I suspect that there is more to come from those two and that their boat is an excuse for a cover up crime, possibly the murder.

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DSaff
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

Good ideas on your suspects. Another person I have on my suspect list is Mike's stepfather. He could know about the phone calls and the sale of the land. He seems to be a man with trust and anger issues (down deep) and could have hired someone to frame Mike's dad.

 

maxcat wrote:

I'd like to post one on suspects. First, it might be Pelletier as he seems to have a lot at stake in losing his business. He, to me , is not someone who would be easy to talk to  about anything.

Second, you know in a murder mystery, it's going to be someone you don't suspect. But I am having a feeling that Charley Stevens might be a suspect. He helps out by flying the plane around in the wilderness to spot Jack. But he seems to be genuinely nice about hanging around Mike. He knew something was going on when Mike's dad had poached a deer and had it in his cabin. But he never said anything about it.

Then there's Truman Dellis who was poaching with Jack. He is a mean character and wants nothing to do with the right side of the law.

These are just some suspects I've questioned in my mind that they could really do harm.

 

 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
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DSaff
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I think that Mike and Sarah love each other but, they don't know how to support each other. The reunion was bittersweet for both of them. I think it gave Sarah hope, but while Mike would have liked it to continue, as he put it, he would rather hurt her now rather than later. I am hoping they work to build the bridge they need to fix things.

 

hookedonbooks09 wrote:

I will just hit on the Sarah aspect for now. 

 

I was kind of put off at Mike's treatment of Sarah when she showed up to try to lend support during his time of need.  (He actually reminded me of boyfriends I'd had in HS, who were a little childish and not very nice at times!)

 

Anyway, I think it took a lot of nerve for her to try to bridge their differences and come back to be there for him and while he seemed to realize this, he rebuilt the wall between them anyway.

 

All of that being said, I think we as humans, basically function within our frame of reference and Mike's frame of reference with regard to relationships is weak and broken to say the least!  How much can we expect of him, unless he can break out of the mold of his parents' example?

 

--Barb

 

 

 

 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
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babzilla41
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Re: Poacher's Son: Middle Chapters, 8 - 18

I think it's interesting that most everyone has commented that Mike's idea of what a relationship should be is based on his mother's and father's relationship.  He was only nine when they split.  Seems like he would be more influenced by his mother and step-father's relationship as he spent more years with them, which leads me to think that things in that relationship weren't so hunky-dory either.  Mike's mother gave us a small glimpse of that when she told Mike that his dad still called her.  The fact that she still takes his calls, and that she never told her husband about them, leads me to think that she still loves Jack, on some level, and feels the need to hide things from her husband.  For some reason she reminds me of a Stepford wife in her "new" life - which could account for Mike's inability to be involved in an emotional relationship with Sarah.

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