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Vermontcozy
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

The Poacher's Son  Missed being here yesterday,Paul,Paul H,Rachel..Glad people are still posting,and we can still be in contact with Paul D.,and Charlie as well...I wonder where Mike will be in 2011..??/Susan Vt..my fingers are crossed..Today we will all be back on....

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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dhaupt
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

Okay I've finished, you folks have no idea how much I wanted to open this thread and read what you've written, and Paul it has nothing to do with the book not keeping or holding my interest because believe me it was very hard to read on schedule, but I'm always so afraid of posting something ahead of myself that I stayed on schedule. 

What a great read. It was amazing how much Mike grew up in this novel and I can't wait to meet up with him again on his next adventure.

Thanks so much

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KathyS
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

Paul-Doiron wrote:

Hi Kathy,

 

No need to apologize. I appreciate the candid feedback and thank you for wish me well. As for me writing like a man, I'm not sure what to say except, "Vive le difference."

 

Paul

Yes, Paul, "Vive le difference."  :smileyhappy:  I didn't mean for that to come across as a condemnation, only an observation.  We sometimes talk about the differences we see in both women's writing, and men's.  How some women would rather read a woman author in some cases.   Especially when it has to do with men/women relationships in a novel.  A different approach seems to occur.

 

I do love some men author.  In the adventure writing, they seem to see and write differently than a woman.  None of these cases are absolute.  In your case, I only meant that you use certain subjects, in the case of the environment, and pay more attention to that area.  It's hard for me to explain how to get a reader emotionally attached to the characters, without sounding negative, or derogatory towards you.  I meant neither in your case.  You are a very good writer, I don't need to tell you that, but as a woman, I could not get close enough to your men in this story, to feel closeness.  If that makes sense.  I came the closes to Charley, to care about, but his words weren't soft enough, in how he treated his wife.  Do you know what I'm saying?

 

I know this novel appeals to a lot of people, and I think that's really great.  I would hate to think what I've said, would discourage anyone from reading this story of yours.  If we didn't have such diverse readers, I know there would never be wonderful writers like yourself coming along!

 

Yes, I did mean what I said...I would never wish a good writer to meet nothing but success.  I'm glad you were here as a participant, and hope you can come back again.  I am curious enough to know what happens next in Mike's life.  :smileyhappy:  I wish him well, too.  I did like the character Kathy (nothing personal, Ha!)..... language and all, that didn't bother me in the least.  Real life, and real characters.... I was almost thinking Mike would have a relationship with her!  She's a real kick-ass kind of woman, who does really care!  I almost forgot about her.... I did love those scenes with her in them.

 

All the best, Paul.

Kathy S.

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Bonnie824
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

It worked out well really that I read it weeks ahead since I was on vacation (busy one in Philly) last week and then came back to sign in problems. I feel bad I wasn't able to discuss past the first chapters part though.

 

Loved the book and the ending. I think it makes sense that Jack, who acted like a bad man, husband, father, human all along should actually turn out to be bad. Mostly that is how it is. And the step-father getting a bum rap by Mike really needed to be given more kudos for stepping up and being there for him and his mom.

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Paul-Doiron
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

 

Bonnie824 wrote:

It worked out well really that I read it weeks ahead since I was on vacation (busy one in Philly) last week and then came back to sign in problems. I feel bad I wasn't able to discuss past the first chapters part though.

 

Loved the book and the ending. I think it makes sense that Jack, who acted like a bad man, husband, father, human all along should actually turn out to be bad. Mostly that is how it is. And the step-father getting a bum rap by Mike really needed to be given more kudos for stepping up and being there for him and his mom.

 

 

Hi Bonnie,

 

I'm just glad you enjoyed the book. You'll be interested to know that Mike's relationship with his mom and stepfather gets another layer in the next book.

 

Paul

 

Author of THE POACHER'S SON (Minotaur Books, On Sale: May 11, 2010). www.pauldoiron.com
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Paul-Doiron
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

 

KathyS wrote:

Paul-Doiron wrote:

Hi Kathy,

 

No need to apologize. I appreciate the candid feedback and thank you for wish me well. As for me writing like a man, I'm not sure what to say except, "Vive le difference."

 

Paul

Yes, Paul, "Vive le difference."  :smileyhappy:  I didn't mean for that to come across as a condemnation, only an observation.  We sometimes talk about the differences we see in both women's writing, and men's.  How some women would rather read a woman author in some cases.   Especially when it has to do with men/women relationships in a novel.  A different approach seems to occur.

 

I do love some men author.  In the adventure writing, they seem to see and write differently than a woman.  None of these cases are absolute.  In your case, I only meant that you use certain subjects, in the case of the environment, and pay more attention to that area.  It's hard for me to explain how to get a reader emotionally attached to the characters, without sounding negative, or derogatory towards you.  I meant neither in your case.  You are a very good writer, I don't need to tell you that, but as a woman, I could not get close enough to your men in this story, to feel closeness.  If that makes sense.  I came the closes to Charley, to care about, but his words weren't soft enough, in how he treated his wife.  Do you know what I'm saying?

 

I know this novel appeals to a lot of people, and I think that's really great.  I would hate to think what I've said, would discourage anyone from reading this story of yours.  If we didn't have such diverse readers, I know there would never be wonderful writers like yourself coming along!

 

Yes, I did mean what I said...I would never wish a good writer to meet nothing but success.  I'm glad you were here as a participant, and hope you can come back again.  I am curious enough to know what happens next in Mike's life.  :smileyhappy:  I wish him well, too.  I did like the character Kathy (nothing personal, Ha!)..... language and all, that didn't bother me in the least.  Real life, and real characters.... I was almost thinking Mike would have a relationship with her!  She's a real kick-ass kind of woman, who does really care!  I almost forgot about her.... I did love those scenes with her in them.

 

All the best, Paul.

Kathy S.

 

 

Hi Kathy,

 

I am enjoying our dialogue. I do know what you mean about male characters not always connecting with female readers. As a man, I hope I can connect with the actual women in my life (I'll leave it to my wife to say whether that's true or not:smileyvery-happy:). But I think you bring up an interesting question.

 

With the exception of Charley Stevens (who's not perfect either), The Poacher's Son is about men who can't communicate with or understand women. In Jack's case it's because the war has twisted his soul. I have always envisioned him as a romantic at heart who was so traumatized by the deaths he witnessed in Vietnam that he became fearful of losing anything he valued too much—hence his jealousy, misdirected rage, willingness to inflict pain before it's inflicted on him, etc.

 

In Mike's case I think it's because he's Jack's son, first, and at 24 he's not emotionally mature, second. As I said in another post, Mike isn't just estranged from women, he's estranged from everyone. And of course, he's the one telling the story here, so his alienation colors his interpretation of the events and people he encounters. 

 

In your previous post you mentioned the contrast between the softness of the way Mike sees nature and the hardness of the dialogue. I'd hoped to suggest something about Mike's true nature through this contrast (as well as about the brutal world he inhabits). 

 

In any case the challenge for an author in writing about men who don't understand women is that you can alienate female readers. It was a concern of mine.

 

I hope you'll check in on me again in a book or two to see whether Mike has made any progress.

 

Paul

 

 

Author of THE POACHER'S SON (Minotaur Books, On Sale: May 11, 2010). www.pauldoiron.com
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krb2g
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

Anecdotally, once I finished this book, I passed it on to my mother, who also likes murder mysteries (and likes Nevada Barr books, which are generally set in national parks, so I figured she'd like this style of book). Last I heard, she was enjoying it, but hadn't yet finished. She told me that she had figured out whodunit--and she was *totally* wrong. I didn't correct her, but I wanted to let you know, Paul, that you've succeeded with another reader!

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Paul-Doiron
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

 

krb2g wrote:

Anecdotally, once I finished this book, I passed it on to my mother, who also likes murder mysteries (and likes Nevada Barr books, which are generally set in national parks, so I figured she'd like this style of book). Last I heard, she was enjoying it, but hadn't yet finished. She told me that she had figured out whodunit--and she was *totally* wrong. I didn't correct her, but I wanted to let you know, Paul, that you've succeeded with another reader!

 

 

Hi,

 

I think we'll know if I've succeeded when mom says, "He got me!"

 

Thank you for giving it to her.

 

Paul

 

Author of THE POACHER'S SON (Minotaur Books, On Sale: May 11, 2010). www.pauldoiron.com
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mrsv610
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

So I started the book and finished it before the first set of questions came up.  I had moved onto other books and decided to wait to see if there would be a thread like this.

 

I really enjoyed this book.  I just couldn't put it down.  I especially LOVED the references to Colby College (my sister-in-law went there) and I have been to the campus a few times.  I felt like I was travelling around Maine with Mike. I was very shocked with the ending.  I never expected it to really be Jack let alone BJ helping out. I usually have books figured out long before the end.  I truly enjoy a book that keeps me on the edge of my seat and guessing.  BRAVO!

 

I hope that Paul Doiron continues writing books so wonderful!

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BookWoman718
Posts: 220
Registered: ‎01-28-2007

Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

Paul D. wrote:

 

With the exception of Charley Stevens (who's not perfect either), The Poacher's Son is about men who can't communicate with or understand women.

 

___________________________________

 

but Paul, if you tried to write about men who CAN communicate with, and understand, women, the book would very, very brief!  :-)

 

Couldn't resist!

But I appreciate this full reply you wrote about the men in Poacher's Son.  Mike, at times, made me want to pull my hair!    He just hasn't mastered the art of thinking things through before he acts, even when his job is on the line.  (Relationships, OK, he's SO young that he doesn't have a prayer of reacting so as to be a source of comfort and strength to others, neither Sarah nor his mom.)  But when he goes out of his way to go face-to-face with someone who's already filed a complaint, or blows off an order to meet with his superiors, well, I'm not sure you'd really want someone like that in an armed and dangerous job.   He really does need to get his head clear.

 

I congratulate you for making me care that much about how this young man progresses.  He's got a lot going for him, despite the rough times he's been through.  And I'll be hoping he meets someone new, because I just don't think Sarah and he have the same life vision at all.  But this was one very well written 'literate mystery' and I'll be back for the next one.  Thanks!

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Paul-Doiron
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

 

BookWoman718 wrote:

Paul D. wrote:

 

With the exception of Charley Stevens (who's not perfect either), The Poacher's Son is about men who can't communicate with or understand women.

 

___________________________________

 

but Paul, if you tried to write about men who CAN communicate with, and understand, women, the book would very, very brief!  :-)

 

Couldn't resist!

But I appreciate this full reply you wrote about the men in Poacher's Son.  Mike, at times, made me want to pull my hair!    He just hasn't mastered the art of thinking things through before he acts, even when his job is on the line.  (Relationships, OK, he's SO young that he doesn't have a prayer of reacting so as to be a source of comfort and strength to others, neither Sarah nor his mom.)  But when he goes out of his way to go face-to-face with someone who's already filed a complaint, or blows off an order to meet with his superiors, well, I'm not sure you'd really want someone like that in an armed and dangerous job.   He really does need to get his head clear.

 

I congratulate you for making me care that much about how this young man progresses.  He's got a lot going for him, despite the rough times he's been through.  And I'll be hoping he meets someone new, because I just don't think Sarah and he have the same life vision at all.  But this was one very well written 'literate mystery' and I'll be back for the next one.  Thanks!

 

 

Hi Bookwoman,

 

Mike can be frustrating, I know. The intensely personal nature of his predicament has impaired his judgment to some extent, but in his capacity as a warden he never crosses the line except to vent his (legitimate, in my mind) anger. When next you see him he'll be older and wiser.

 

A little wiser anyway. :smileywink:

 

Paul

 

 

Author of THE POACHER'S SON (Minotaur Books, On Sale: May 11, 2010). www.pauldoiron.com
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dhaupt
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

[ Edited ]

I've noticed a lot of us have been commenting on communication between the sexes and I think it's fascinating and very true that we have trouble understanding each other. I think it's also why a lot of females like female authors and men like male authors. But there are a few male authors who communicate well with me and Paul here is one of them. He's describing very different types of women in the book and I think he does a great job of it, the manipulating Brenda and Mike's mom to Kathy the ultimate tomboy to Sarah who's young and feminine to Ora the very grandmotherly type. I got them all.

But for the rest of us there's always the book Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus :womanwink:

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KathyS
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

[ Edited ]

Debbie, you are right about Paul getting the women characters all written very well.   They were all separate and distinct in their personalities.

 

Part of my problem with the book, I think, is that I haven't been participating in this discussion, and you definitely get more out of a book if you do hear all sides to these characters.  I read books two ways, one, for a discussion that I know will last a month, and two, as a general reader.  I read this book, not as if I were going to discuss it, because I couldn't get into it enough to feel the characters, but as a general reader. 

 

I think, probably for me, there was so much testosterone going around in that story, it just put me off.  I did take into consideration Jack's history, his war involvement, and knew he had issues that were going to be with him the rest of his life.  And I believe Mike saw this too, but processed them differently than I did.  We all saw how Mike wanted to please his dad, to be near him, to basically save him from himself.  I wanted that as much as anyone else, but I also saw the destructive side to him, which was ongoing, with any kind of relationship Mike wanted with him.....I was told, once, you can love a parent, but you don't have to like them.  I don't think Mike was mature enough to keep these two feelings separate, as most people aren't.

 

The men characters, as Paul points out, are all flawed.  I wanted to find just one that wasn't.  After a while it wasn't fun to read....I felt that Charley was the relief in this....and I knew there would be no way that he would be killed off, or at least I hoped he wouldn't.  I knew Mike had to save him.  This relationship was the best relationship of this story.  I think trust is a big issue in seeing the gradual maturity of Mike,

 

Sarah will not be a good match for Mike.  As was said, she has her own agenda, and Mike (as much as he tried to destroy himself along with his job, for his father sake) loves being in the outdoors, being in communication with himself within his love for the wilderness.  He's trying to save it as much as he tried to save his father.  It bothers me as much as it did Mike, to see our wilderness destroyed.  And spending so much time reading about all of this destruction of life and nature, bothered me to some degree, another reason this story made me uncomfortable to read.

 

As I said, it was written from a male's point of view....and selected for us to read, by a male....I was doomed!  :smileyvery-happy:  But I would like to see more adventures with Mike and Kathy, or one of the other characters.....fighting the elements, saving the day, or an animal, or a friend!  And get a few more characters that aren't so dysfunctional into the stories.....and hope Mike does grow more in his thoughts, in that he can't serve himself well if he alienates rational thought in his relationships....emotionally with people, or emotionally with the environment....He needs to stop being so reckless.  He won't serve anyone by losing his job in the process.  Anyway, just a few thoughts.

 

Kathy

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dhaupt
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

Kathy, great observations and I do agree with you that this book was filled with testosterone, but then given the climate and profession of the main characters I think the testosterone was necessary.

I don't agree with you about Sarah and Mike because of their youth and his history with his mother and her manipulations and how he looked at her relationships with men. I think Mike and Sarah compliment each other if they'd just get past all the pride and other human and sexes problems and grow up a little. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see what Paul does with them.

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maxcat
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

I think someone mentioned that this story was a sort of coming of age thing. Now that I've finished the book, Mike really grows up in a hurry and uses his knowledge of game warden throughout the book. He loves what he's doing and it's the exact opposite of his father who is a poacher and killer. Mike is in his own realm and puts his skills to use throughout the book and he was willing to forsake all of that to find his dad. Somewhere down deep inside he still cared for his father even though Jack was a jerk ans a selfish human being.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
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Paul-Doiron
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

 

 

maxcat wrote:

I think someone mentioned that this story was a sort of coming of age thing. Now that I've finished the book, Mike really grows up in a hurry and uses his knowledge of game warden throughout the book. He loves what he's doing and it's the exact opposite of his father who is a poacher and killer. Mike is in his own realm and puts his skills to use throughout the book and he was willing to forsake all of that to find his dad. Somewhere down deep inside he still cared for his father even though Jack was a jerk ans a selfish human being.

 

 

Hi Max,

 

Your reading of the novel is certainly the one I was aiming for. Mike's decision to become a game warden is both a rebuke to his dad, since he's rejecting his father's lawless ways, but somewhat perversely, he also wants Jack's approval. The second chapter, in which Mike shares the news and introduces Sarah to his dad, is all about him showing off: "Look I can be a real woodsman and tough guy, too, and hey, check out my gorgeous girlfriend."

 

Mike spends most of the book finding ways to identify with his father because he needs so much for Jack to be innocent. Instead he learns how different they are in their values.

 

I don't think I'm giving too much away to say that in the second book MIke has the reverse problem. Despite his best intentions, he discovers that he remains his father's son in ways that are troubling. Getting out from under the shadow of Jack Bowditch is a harder challenge than he realized.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

Author of THE POACHER'S SON (Minotaur Books, On Sale: May 11, 2010). www.pauldoiron.com
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maxcat
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

Thanks for your reply, Paul. I certainly will be looking for your second book and find out more about Mike's life and his turmoils.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
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literature
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Re: Read it all, and I'm not sorry!

 

Paul-Doiron wrote:

 

 

maxcat wrote:

I think someone mentioned that this story was a sort of coming of age thing. Now that I've finished the book, Mike really grows up in a hurry and uses his knowledge of game warden throughout the book. He loves what he's doing and it's the exact opposite of his father who is a poacher and killer. Mike is in his own realm and puts his skills to use throughout the book and he was willing to forsake all of that to find his dad. Somewhere down deep inside he still cared for his father even though Jack was a jerk ans a selfish human being.

 

 

Hi Max,

 

Your reading of the novel is certainly the one I was aiming for. Mike's decision to become a game warden is both a rebuke to his dad, since he's rejecting his father's lawless ways, but somewhat perversely, he also wants Jack's approval. The second chapter, in which Mike shares the news and introduces Sarah to his dad, is all about him showing off: "Look I can be a real woodsman and tough guy, too, and hey, check out my gorgeous girlfriend."

 

Mike spends most of the book finding ways to identify with his father because he needs so much for Jack to be innocent. Instead he learns how different they are in their values.

 

I don't think I'm giving too much away to say that in the second book MIke has the reverse problem. Despite his best intentions, he discovers that he remains his father's son in ways that are troubling. Getting out from under the shadow of Jack Bowditch is a harder challenge than he realized.

 

Paul

 

 

I wonder if this means that Mike finally becomes centered in the third novel and finds clarity in his being.  His emotions and his intellect reach that all so important harmony.