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dhaupt
Posts: 11,843
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

 

SandyS wrote:

 

I haven't been much of a mystery reader so I find this concept of "who-dun-it" intriguing.  I agree with MsReaderCP that I'm starting to wonder about every character. 

 

I am enjoying the depth of the characters.  I did not believe I would find depth in the mystery genre.  One of my goals for this book was to look anew at the genre.  I am pleasantly surprised so far.

 

SandyS

 

 

Sandy the who-done-it aspect of mystery is what really drives me to keep turning pages and with a great story teller like Paul that makes the journey all the better.

I hope we've birthed another mystery lover in you.

Glad you're along for the ride.

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nfam
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎01-08-2007
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

Mike seems very confused in these chapters, more reacting than acting. These chapters make it hard for me to consider this a mystery novel. It reads much more like a coming of age story. Mike desperately wants a father figure. He keeps doing remarkably strange things to ward off the idea that his father actually is guilty. In fact, I think that's why he does what he does. 

 

Charlie fills the role of father/mentor very well and Mike responds to it. He needs the kind of mentoring Charlie gives him. I think Charlie, like everyone else, knows that Jack is guilty, but unlike the others he has more understanding of Mike's precarious state of mind. He doesn't tell him his father is guilty, He leads him toward that conclusion. 

 

Actually, I did think Brenda was the girl from the camp, BJ. Usually, when a character shows up for a brief appearance, the way Brenda did, the author has another idea for how to use her. I knew Brenda wasn't just there for window dressing. Besides, she was the only woman at the camp and considering Jack's attractiveness to women, I thought he'd have to have her, even if she was very young. As I think someone in the story remarked, he had to have a woman in his bed. 

 

 

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nfam
Posts: 231
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I agree, Brenda is extremely unstable. She uses sex to get power. Personally, I think he manipulation of men is a way to take control of her environment. Not a particularly likable character. 

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DSaff
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

Good point!  It made me laugh!  :smileyhappy:

 

Bonnie_C wrote:

  

Jack:  My mental image of him so far is of him riding around in his rickety old pickup with animal glands in jars while he splashes a healthy dose of deer urine on him to keep the dogs away.  He would have to clean up really well to get my attention. 

 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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retromom
Posts: 113
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

At this point Mike is driving me crazy with some of the decisions he is making. If I were him I wouldn't have been so eager to go and talk to Brenda and help out the investigation. He also should have taken care of his business with his boss before doing anything else. He is making some bad choices just like his father did.

 

I have many more suspects in my mind after this section. The possiblilities are endless at this point. I am questioning how Charley knows so much about the murders. He is making me uncomfortable. The fact that Brenda was sitting at the bar that night makes me question her. Also her taking up with Jack is strange to me. I didn't picture Jack as being appealing to women, especially younger ones.  I guess my idea of Jack was all wrong!

Beth

http://bookaholicmom.blogspot.com/
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nymazz
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎09-14-2009

Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

What's your assessment of Mike's judgment in these chapters? Do you trust any aspect of his reasoning? Has he lost his job for good?

I think at this point Mike's judgment is a bit off, he's so desperate to believe that his father isn't guilty or capable of murder he's not seeing the evidence.

 

 

Did you expect that Brenda was the young girl "BJ" from Pelletier's camp? Are her feelings for Jack sincere? Were you as shocked as Mike to learn who she is? Do you think she's telling the truth? 

I was surprised when we found out Brenda was BJ.  I don't think her feelings are sincere, I think Jack just treats her better than anyone else she's ever been with including her father, which isn't saying much. I did not believe her story.

 

We spend a long time with Charley in these chapters. What do you make of his character? What does Mike think of him? How would you describe his relationship with Ora?  Did you suspect the reason his daughters don't seem to keep in touch, as Mike did?

Charley is a good man, and I think he understands Mike's situation better than the others.

I think the problems with his daughters is one of the reasons he reaches out to Mike. Mike and Ora seem to have a very loving relationship, Charley carries a lot of quilt for her situation, but I don't think she blames him.

 

What on Earth makes Jack so attractive to women?

Now this has to be the million dollar question, I can't even imagine.  I think Paul did a

great job of writing a truly despicable villain. 

Reading gives us someplace to go when we have to stay where we are. -Mason Cooley-
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sarah_in_ca
Posts: 42
Registered: ‎09-28-2009
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I think Mike's judgement is clouded at this point because the more he hears of proof that his father, Jack, killed the two men, the more he tries to proove everyone wrong.  He seems to have begun siding with his father now whereas in the beginning chapters I felt he had turned against him.  Mike wants to do what's best, but his emotions and memories get in his way.

 

I actually went back to look for the name of the young girl at the camp, BJ, and Brenda starts with B, but the J threw me off.  I couldn't imagine that young girl hooking up with Jack.  I think  Brenda used Jack as protection, and yes, she did care for him, but she was not the person I thought she was, using her beauty to seduce men.

 

I loved Charlie.  He was such a wonderful father figure for Mike right from the beginning.  He helped Mike grow and understand life.  Charlie and Ora had a deep loving relationship, even after her plane accident.  I think the daughters were wrong to blame Charlie for her injuries.

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Mainelady
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

What's your assessment of Mike's judgment in these chapters? Do you trust any aspect of his reasoning? Has he lost his job for good?

 

The further along we get, we more we see the wisdom in policies that prevent people from participating in events or issues that involve family or loved ones.  Mike is simply not thinking clearly at all.  He is young,scared, and not able to grasp that his actions will have long-lasting permanent consequences.  He so wants to believe his father innocent, and is afraid that he might find out he's not, but he also wants to be the one to find and 'save' his father, so he just ignores common sense, orders, and any thoughts of the future. I'm afraid his 'screw it, I'll deal with it later' mentality is going to come back to haunt him.

 

Did you expect that Brenda was the young girl "BJ" from Pelletier's camp? Are her feelings for Jack sincere? Were you as shocked as Mike to learn who she is? Do you think she's telling the truth? 

 

I was as shocked as Mike to learn that Brenda and BJ were the same, but then I thought "Well DAH"-- it was almost too obvious, but so well written that it did not  spill the beans earlier.  Is she telling the truth? I think Brenda is one of those people who doesn't know what the truth is.  SHe makes it up as she goes along, and believes it at the time she is telling her side of events.

 

We spend a long time with Charley in these chapters. What do you make of his character? What does Mike think of him? How would you describe his relationship with Ora?  Did you suspect the reason his daughters don't seem to keep in touch, as Mike did?

 

I love Charley. The relationship between Mike and Charley is much more than just a mentor-rookie one.  I think Charley is the father figure Mike needs, and Mike is the son Charley wants.  Ora provides a calming, sensible atmosphere and relationship for both of them so they can eventually bond and get this problem with Jack resolved. I didn't get any bad vibes at this point about why the daughters didn't stay in touch.  I figure they just didn't want the rural life style and, like many young adults, are just trying to live indepent lives from their parents.

 

What on Earth makes Jack so attractive to women? What is your sense of Sally?

 

Jack--attractive to women?  Beats me. 

 

Sally....as I said in another post, Sally and Mike need to learn to communicate about the future more.  They need to focus on positives instead of negatives.  It's fine to say she doesn't like something, but what does she want?  And do we ever really hear Sally say she doesn't like the warden life?  Or are we just hearing what Mike says? What he thinks Sally said?

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babzilla41
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

[ Edited ]
Rachel-K wrote:

What's your assessment of Mike's judgment in these chapters? Do you trust any aspect of his reasoning? Has he lost his job for good?

 

In these chapters, we hear the title of the book echoed in Vernon Tripp's sarcastic laugh, " The poacher's son is a game warden!" This irony has, of course, never been lost on Mike. If Mike did "turn against" his father in choosing this job, what is he doing now?

 

Did you expect that Brenda was the young girl "BJ" from Pelletier's camp? Are her feelings for Jack sincere? Were you as shocked as Mike to learn who she is? Do you think she's telling the truth? 

 

We spend a long time with Charley in these chapters. What do you make of his character? What does Mike think of him? How would you describe his relationship with Ora?  Did you suspect the reason his daughters don't seem to keep in touch, as Mike did?

 

What on Earth makes Jack so attractive to women? What is your sense of Sally?

 

I think Mike's judgment is out of character.  Up until Jack was arrested, he seemed like he was a controlled person - not showing much emotion; doing things by the book.  His decisions now are all based on emotion and his determination to prove his father innocent.  He obviously doesn't lose his job for good since we know future books w/his character are in the making!!

 

I don't know as I ever thought that Mike "turned against his father" by becoming a game warden.  He obviously doesn't approve of his lifestyle (the poaching), but the hunting/trapping part is a way of life for a lot of people - he ate plenty of game when he was young.  From a young age Mike had a different view of the animals (i.e. when he went trapping w/Jack and asked why Jack didn't just shoot the fox).  Of course the irony of it is still palpable - the irony is that Mike is turning his back on his job to prove his father's innocence.

 

I didn't think Brenda was BJ; kind of forgot about poor, non-descript BJ.  I think she believes her feelings for Jack are real.  He was the only one who ever stuck up for her, so I think it is almost natural that she, as a young girl who doesn't know any better, "falls" for him and tries to protect him.

 

I'm not sure about Charley at this point - I like him; I think he's a good man - he shows that in how he cares/respects Ora.  But there's something about him that makes me question him.  Maybe he's just a red herring but he seems to take Mike just so far and then pulls back.  It's almost like he's trying to open doors for him but I'm not sure if it's to help him or to throw him off.  At this point, it's clear that Mike respects and trusts him.

 

 

"I love books. If I could eat them, I would. I love their scent and often put my nose in to inhale their aroma." - Kathleen Grissom
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mamawli
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

Charlie was told to keep an eye on Mike and so he did.  Charlie knew that Mike would want to find out about his father.  Charlie led Mike to many sources of information.  As Charlie and Mike spent time together they developed a bonding experience and a good relationship.

Wordsmith
kpatton
Posts: 206
Registered: ‎11-27-2006

Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

 

DSaff wrote:

Mike is a young man who is watching his world fall apart. Not only is his estranged father suspected of murder, but the police think Mike knows more than he does. He can't attend the funeral of a comrade, but others he suspects of wrong doing can. I think Mike has a list of people he believes know more than they are telling, and is frustrated by the lack of true police work being done here. Top it off with potentially losing his job, and you have a young man desperate to find the truth and clear his (and his father's) name. I'm not sure my choices would have been much different than his. Mike needs answers and seems willing to do whatever it takes to find them.

 

Vernon Tripp is a loser who says things to get under people's skin. Mike would be better off ignoring the comments and sticking with trying to find out the facts relating to the shootings. My thoughts on Mike being a game warden are that he is trying to make up for what his father might have done. He certainly wants to stop poaching and provide protection for people and animals.

 

No, I didn't realize that B.J. was Brenda and was really surprised to find that she is Jack's "girlfriend." Interesting, but how much of this is true? Jack is attractive because he is a "bad" ol' boy. Some women are drawn to this kind of guy, but in Brenda's case, I think she found safety in him.

 

Charlie and Ora are a wonderful couple and I think they love each other very much. Charlie, however, feels guilty for Ora's accident, and one of his daughters feels the same way. I did not suspect the reason for the wheelchair, but it does make sense. I like Charlie and think Mike does too. He is knowledgeable and friendly. But, now I wonder if Charlie has done something awful to make up for the past, trying to secure his and Ora's future.

 

 

Donna,

This isn't the first time you have captured my thoughts so well.  I really agree with you summation of Mike.  Talk about a young man caught in a whirlwind.  Does he really have a choice but to continue to follow his path in trying to clear his father?  He is definitely a part of this and will eventually clear himself as well.

I had the same sense of Charlie and Ora.  They appear to be a couple who are comfortable with one another.  Together they make others feel comfortable.  I like Charlie too much to want him involved with the murders.  I want to believe that Charlie and Ora believe what they say- that life happens and they will do what they need to do to move on.

Kathy

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kpatton
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I also think that Charley is learning from MIke. Mike's devotion to his father despite what we know of Jack's character is amazing. Charley knows that Jack was not exactly the best father to Mike, and he knows that it would be easy for Mike to condemn and accept Jack's fate. Yet, despite the horror that Jack is accused of, Mike stands ready to defend. In contrast, Charley's daughters are not so forgiving of one horror that they have accused their father of, despite his having been a much more model parent-or at least it appears he was a devoted, and loving father.

 

Vpenning- I like your comparison and contrast between Charlie as a father and his children and Mike and his father Jack..  Thank you for pointing this out.  Not sure I would have thought about it.  Certainly adds to my understanding of maybe why charlie is drawn to Mike.

Kathy

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kleeGA
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I think that Mike is still trying to do what he thinks is right.  He seems to have a problem with others telling him what to do when he “knows” that he is right and they are wrong.  I wouldn’t think that he has lost his job for good, but I would think that they would suspend him for a long time and require him to attend counseling.

 

Mike turned against his father’s actions more than as a person.  Mike always wants to do what he thinks is right.  He didn’t think that the poaching his father did was right, but he is still Mike’s father.

 

I never expected Brenda to be BJ at all.  I was completely shocked at finding that out.  I think her feelings for Jack are more of a mutual need than real love.  She needs someone to take care of her and Jack serves that purpose.  I think it’s possible that she could be telling the truth, but it’s too easy of a story. 

 

I think that Charley and Mike are a lot alike.  Charley is more laid back about things than Mike is.  Mike seems to go full speed ahead most of the time.  Charley loves his wife very much and feels very guilty for what happened to Ora.  I figured that his daughters are mad at him for it too.

 

Jack is a typical alpha male.  I have known men like him.  They are always so attractive because the typical female wants a man that can handle anything.  Females are supposed to be gatherers and men are supposed to be hunters.  It’s the thought that a man who is a true hunter will always take care of his mate and she will no be cold or hungry.  Women are willing to do anything to keep a man like that.  Some are strong enough to let them go when they turn out to be complete jerks, but there are some that have been demoralized for so long that they will hold on even to someone like Jack. 

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GadgetgirlKS
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Registered: ‎02-10-2009
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

[ Edited ]

In these chapters, we hear the title of the book echoed in Vernon Tripp's sarcastic laugh, "The poacher's son is a game warden!" This irony has, of course, never been lost on Mike. If Mike did "turn against" his father in choosing this job, what is he doing now?

Mike never turned against his father, I think he wanted to make up for what his father had done (especially to the wildlife). I don't think the supervising wardens should be giving Mike such a hard time. What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty!?!? I think Mike should have called and let them know he wasn't going to make the meeting, but he had every right to be at the funeral. There are going to be a lot of people that regret the way they treated Mike if/when they find out his father didn't kill those men.

 

Did you expect that Brenda was the young girl "BJ" from Pelletier's camp? Are her feelings for Jack sincere? Were you as shocked as Mike to learn who she is? Do you think she's telling the truth? 

I was shocked to find out BJ and Brenda were the same person. I don't trust Brenda and question her feelings for Jack, he is more the father figure she have, I guess a little bit better of a man is more of a father figure? It is possible she is involved in the murders, she was close enough to Jack to help set him up.....

 

We spend a long time with Charley in these chapters. What do you make of his character? What does Mike think of him? How would you describe his relationship with Ora? 

Charley seems like a good ol' boy, but with a mystery book you question everyone's character and motive. I think Mike looks up to Charley and has every since that incident with the poached deer. Charley and Ora seem to have made a great life together and although Charley blames himself for Ora's injuries, he has learned to make the most of the situation.  

 

What on Earth makes Jack so attractive to women?

I think what makes Jack attractive to women is a combination of women who are needy for a man's attention, alcohol, and lack of a lot of men to chose from out in the Maine woods, lowering their standards. (It sounds a bit harsh, but Jack is not a good man.)

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DSaff
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I don't want to think Charlie could be guilty either, but we will see. I will be reading the last section this weekend! I can't wait to find out who dun it. LOL  :smileywink:

 

kpatton wrote:

 

Donna,

 

I had the same sense of Charlie and Ora.  They appear to be a couple who are comfortable with one another.  Together they make others feel comfortable.  I like Charlie too much to want him involved with the murders.  I want to believe that Charlie and Ora believe what they say- that life happens and they will do what they need to do to move on.

Kathy

 

 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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Amanda-Louise
Posts: 156
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25 my thoughts

Better late than never?  The kids have been in ski camp all week and I'm completely exhausted.  No computer time at all - how depressing!

 

I also think I have the chapter numbers mixed up, but I'll post this anyway and look forward to being on track this coming Monday!

 

Chapter 19

This was an odd chapter.  I'm still having trouble figuring out why everyone is so against Mike?  The police officers want to beat him up?  That just seems so uncivilized.  Why did Mike go to the funeral anyway?

 

Chapter 20

So Charlie Stevens is with Mike in believing that Mike's dad didn't do it?  I feel as though I'm missing something - why wouldn't Mike phone his boss and tell him that he has been asked to help with the investigation?  Or he could have the investigating officer phone on his behalf?

 

Chapter 21

I like at the end of the chapter when Charlie Stevens says he's just the chauffeur.  Very funny understatement since it seems as though he may be a conduit to the truth.

 

Chapter 22

I feel as though we aren't really getting anywhere!  So frustrating.  Why did they have that set-to with Truman Dellis?  Did they learn something that I missed?  I'm finding I'm more confused and not really getting anywhere.  However, that's likely how Mike is feeling - maybe that's the point - to take the reader down Mike's road?

 

Chapter 23

I don't seem to have any notes on this chapter.  Not sure what that means....

 

Chapter 24

I'm starting to wonder if Charlie Stevens is the one?  Seems highly unlikely, but you never know...

 

Chapter 25

This chapter reads as fairly innocuous - we meet Charlie's wife, we learn more about Charlie and his reverence for nature.  However, somehow I find there to be a creepy undertone.

 

----------

 

I'm off to catch up on reading posts.

 

Amanda

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blkeyesuzi
Posts: 730
Registered: ‎01-26-2008
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

DSaff wrote:

Good point!  It made me laugh!  :smileyhappy:

 

Bonnie_C wrote:

 

Jack:  My mental image of him so far is of him riding around in his rickety old pickup with animal glands in jars while he splashes a healthy dose of deer urine on him to keep the dogs away.  He would have to clean up really well to get my attention. 

 

That's hilarious! The mental image is priceless!

Suzi

"I still find each day too short for all the thoughts I want to think, all the walks I want to take, all the books I want to read, and all the friends I want to see. " --John Burroughs
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jb70
Posts: 179
Registered: ‎07-06-2009
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

What's your assessment of Mike's judgment in these chapters? Do you trust any aspect of his reasoning? Has he lost his job for good?

 

In these chapters, we hear the title of the book echoed in Vernon Tripp's sarcastic laugh, " The poacher's son is a game warden!" This irony has, of course, never been lost on Mike. If Mike did "turn against" his father in choosing this job, what is he doing now?

I think there is a part of Mike that is still yearning for his father's acceptance and approval.  He became a game warden because doing things illegally didn't sit for him, but it gives him a bit of common ground with his father.  I do think he truely believes that his father is innocent and for right now so do I, so he wants to be his fathers advocate while everyone else is taking his running away as a sign that he is guilty.

 

Did you expect that Brenda was the young girl "BJ" from Pelletier's camp? Are her feelings for Jack sincere? Were you as shocked as Mike to learn who she is? Do you think she's telling the truth? 

I expected Brenda to be older, I can't see why someone that young would want to be with a man so much older, but that is just me I know lots of people have large age differences in their relationships and it doesn;t affect how much they love each other.  Maybe Brenda picked Jack because he was there and she didn't feel like she had a lot of options.  I'm not sure if she is telling the truth or not.  I believed her when we read the scene with her but then when Sally talked about how she drinks and drives I started to get another picture of her, albeit one colored by a woman who may be jealous of her, but she isn't quite who I thought she was, I was still seeing her as the young girl Mike first met.

 

We spend a long time with Charley in these chapters. What do you make of his character? What does Mike think of him? How would you describe his relationship with Ora?  Did you suspect the reason his daughters don't seem to keep in touch, as Mike did?

I think Charley misses being in on the action now that he is retired and that he likes to live with a bit of an adrenaline rush.  I think he may be hiding something.  he seems to have a loving relationship with Ora.  Something about how he is willing to help Mike not follow along with the Wardens and police made me think he might have another agenda.  Since they keep refering to how little wardens are paid and he has the house all set up for Ora what will happen when they have to move?  They must have another home since they just use this one April to Nov so I guess they might be okay.

 

What on Earth makes Jack so attractive to women? What is your sense of Sally?

I think these women think they can change Jack, teh allure of the untamed man who was just waiting for the right woman to change his ways.  Plus men who are confident, even if they have no reason to be so, tend to attract more women and he seems very sure of himself.

http://bookbookseverywhere.blogspot.com/
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trschi
Posts: 12
Registered: ‎01-04-2010

Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I agree that Mike's judgment is lacking in these chapters, but I think some of it is not as bad as the other wardens make it seem.  For example, why was it such a problem that he wanted to pay respects for a fallen colleague? This was someone he knew from the academy, so it's not as if Brodeur was a stranger.  

 

So many people, especially those in the law enforcement community, assume Jack is guilty. In this assumption, they cannot separate son from estranged father.  There are many decent, good, and honest people in the world who have a parent that committed a horrendous crime.  However, we do not isolate, punish, or implicate the child for the parent's action.  Jack is only a suspected murderer, which makes me question even more why the law enforcement community, and especially Kathy and Lt. Malcomb, have been so severe with Mike. They take their anger out on him to such a degree that it makes me wonder whether they know more about the crime than they let on.

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Lissa618
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Registered: ‎02-03-2010
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Re: The Poacher's Son: Later Middle Chapters, 19-25

I think Mike was running on pure emotion in a lot of the later chapters. At times, I thought he was maybe a little erratic. I never thought his job was in jeopardy, there was too much trust and respect between him and his bosses.

 

I never thought Brenda was BJ's. I actually had pegged her as an incidental character in the book.  That was a very surprising twist. And, no, I don't believe she is telling the truth- I feel that she was an abused child with deep emotional baggage.

 

I did suspect that Charley had something to do with Ora being in a wheelchair.  Mike and Charley develop an interesting bond. Charley is definitely what Mike wishes his father had been like.

 

Love this book!