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sandrabrazier
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

How would you describe Karel as a son, as a brother, as a farmer, as a husband? Can you understand the loyalty he showed his father in the race against Graciela or in the fight after? Was it loyalty at all?

 

The loyalty that Karel showed to his father before the race was more out of the habit of a son pleasing his father, mixed along with fear. After the race against Graciela, the fear and the loyalty he felt toward his father as greatly diminished. The experience matured him, and he could see the race for what it was.

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sandrabrazier
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

 

Karel as a husband, well, I know I wouldn't want him as a husband. But then, he didn't grow up with any exposure to such a relationship, as his mother died giving birth to him. He was unfaithful and he certainly took a lot for granted. He didn't cherish his wife, at least not until the birth of his son. After that, I think his opinion of his wife changed.

 

As a brother, he turned out to be rather loyal, in spite of the fact that they had separated and gone their own ways. But when his brother's ranch burned, he was there.

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sandrabrazier
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

I feel that Father Carew was truly sincere about his calling. He truly tried to live the life that was required of him. I also believe he was a man with normal human qualities, and the celibate life was not easy for him. He also hungered for a little excitement. That's why he went to the race, although that was not an ethical thing for a priest to do.

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sandrabrazier
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

"...I felt sorry for her as I felt that Karel used her as his father used animals. "

 

I think that Karel's father used his sons, more than he used anything or anyone else. Not only did he use Karel for the race, but he used his own sons as work horses, yoked together, to plow his fields. That is why they stood with their heads bent. I can still see these boys yoked in the fields doing their back-breaking work!

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sandrabrazier
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

What kind of a person is Sophie, Karel's wife? Do we get a clear picture of her so far?

 

Although we did not see Sophie a lot in this book, I feel that we do have a very clear picture of her. She is a very strong woman, one strong enough to tolerate her husband's indiscretions and to continue to live joyfully. She was very patient with her husband and children. She was a very altruistic person in the town, helping everyone and anyone. She is very competent, and she seems to be able to handle any task. I really like Sophie, although I thought she had a very tough life. I believe that, at the end of the book, Karel had a new appreciation for her. I like to think that maybe things improved for her.

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sandrabrazier
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

"I don't really understand Elizka.  She is willing to have an affair with Karel, and then she is upset.  We don't know why, except she resents that his wife is having another child, so maybe she is jeolous of Sophie."

 

I was confused by this, too, so I gave it alot of thought. I tried to consider what was different about that last sexual encounter that caused her to be so angry. Then I realized that Karel was very drunk and didn't withdraw from her in time, as was custom for the time as a form of birth control. I thought that that might have been why she was so angry.

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literature
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

Thanks so much for your good wishes. (Yes it is the Jewish New Year; we are welcoming in 5771) I am getting ready to go to my son's house for holiday dinner. He/his wife are expecting twins in a couple of weeks, their first. Last night was spent with my daughter and her family.

I just stopped by BN because I love "talking" books and I find the best place to do it is here! :smileyvery-happy:

twj


Peppermill wrote:

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

Thanks for filling in my blanks, Pepper!

twj


 

TWJ -- I had the book; besides your comments here, I believe you had said earlier too that you weren't taking it with you, or at least might not have easy access to these boards.  :smileyvery-happy:

 

Hope you are having a good holiday with family and friends.  I believe "Happy New Year" is the appropriate greeting?

 

P


TWJ, from one dinosaur to another, L'Shanah Tovah.  I, too, spent the holiday with my family.  Congratulations on the upcoming birth of your twin grandchildren.  We have 4 sets of twins in my family and I am part of the oldest set.

 

 

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

I have a twin brother. Are you fraternal or identical?

I was lying in bed, just watching a program on 9/11 and it made me so sad. I got up and decided to have some coffee.

There have hardly been any memorials this year. We have memories that are too short for our own good sometimes. We should never forget that day.

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Vermontcozy
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters


thewanderingjew wrote:

It makes me so happy to be in such good company! :smileyhappy:


liisa22 wrote:

 


dhaupt wrote:

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

 

.... otherwise, i am just a lone dinosaur!:smileywink:

twj

 


No twj, I'm fossilizing right along with you ;-)

 


 

As I am.  But wisdom comes with the fossilization.  :smileywink: 

Or so I've heard; it has yet to come to me.  Just forgetfulness.  


 


A Very Happy and Healthy New Year to all who celebrate or not..The Dinosaurs are Back,,Didn't you hear we are the New "30ish"My daughter will be up tomorrow for "Breakfast" and to Toast in our New Year...Susan

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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pjcolo
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

I agree, and further I began to wonder if later we would find out that Elizka is pregnant?

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

Enjoy your daughter and your breakfast. I wish I was the new thirtyish! From your mouth to G-d's ears! :smileyvery-happy:


Vermontcozy wrote:
A Very Happy and Healthy New Year to all who celebrate or not..The Dinosaurs are Back,,Didn't you hear we are the New "30ish"My daughter will be up tomorrow for "Breakfast" and to Toast in our New Year...Susan

 

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Vermontcozy
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters


thewanderingjew wrote:

Enjoy your daughter and your breakfast. I wish I was the new thirtyish! From your mouth to G-d's ears! :smileyvery-happy:


Vermontcozy wrote:
A Very Happy and Healthy New Year to all who celebrate or not..The Dinosaurs are Back,,Didn't you hear we are the New "30ish"My daughter will be up tomorrow for "Breakfast" and to Toast in our New Year...Susan

 


Thank you.  Enjoy.all your Blessings...Best..Susan..

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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Vermontcozy
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

Because I am reading on and have a clearer picture and have formed many more opionions and understanding,I can only say I have begun to understand..I did read Rachels post about judging women so harshly.sexually,always the double standard,but Graciela seems to hold her own.I also have wondered,about Elizka and what her plans are..She seems very manipulative.....The Priest is very foreign to me,so I will not pass judgment at this time..

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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pen21
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

thewanderingjew wrote:

Enjoy your daughter and your breakfast. I wish I was the new thirtyish! From your mouth to G-d's ears! :smileyvery-happy:


Vermontcozy wrote:
A Very Happy and Healthy New Year to all who celebrate or not..The Dinosaurs are Back,,Didn't you hear we are the New "30ish"My daughter will be up tomorrow for "Breakfast" and to Toast in our New Year...Susan

Thank you.  Enjoy.all your Blessings...Best..Susan..


Happy and Healthy New Year!  Enjoy your celebrations.

 

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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,276
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters


pen21 wrote:

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

thewanderingjew wrote:

Enjoy your daughter and your breakfast. I wish I was the new thirtyish! From your mouth to G-d's ears! :smileyvery-happy:


Vermontcozy wrote:
A Very Happy and Healthy New Year to all who celebrate or not..The Dinosaurs are Back,,Didn't you hear we are the New "30ish"My daughter will be up tomorrow for "Breakfast" and to Toast in our New Year...Susan

Thank you.  Enjoy.all your Blessings...Best..Susan..


Happy and Healthy New Year!  Enjoy your celebrations.

 


Thank you pen....Susan..

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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Maya2
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

I was thinking the exact same thing. I think she is jealous of Sophie having the baby.

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Sheltiemama
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

Poor Karel got a raw deal as a son. How terrible that his father and brothers blamed him for the death of his mother. I think his brothers, even as they get older, carry that grudge against him. Other than that, it sounds like a pretty typical sibling group. Well, except for being worked half to death by their father. He sounds like a good farmer. As a husband ... well, he obviously loves his wife and daughters, but I can't abide cheating. I supposed he was showing some form of loyalty to his father during the race and after the fight, but Karel himself doesn't even seem to understand it.

 

Vaclav is just plain old mean and bitter. I know the death of his wife hurt him deeply, but he takes it out on the rest of the world, especially his sons. You'd think he'd try to look for his wife in them. Villasenor is arrogant. Me no likey. I thought seeing Father Carew slip out of his priestly role to enjoy a good race showed his humanity. I enjoyed that.

 

I think Karel's brothers just want to get away from their father.

 

Sophie is a good ol' girl. Sweet and pious, in love with her husband, a good farmer's wife and mother, and very tolerant of Karel's faults. I do think he realizes he's lucky to have her.

 

Elizka is an independent woman. I loved reading that she went to college and didn't want to marry after she'd worked so hard to build up her father's business.

 

I don't like Graciela. She seems selfish, though I realize she's totally at the mercy of her father. Thus, the acting out.

 

 

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1archi1
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters


How would you describe Karel as a son, as a brother, as a farmer, as a husband? Can you understand the loyalty he showed his father in the race against Graciela or in the fight after? Was it loyalty at all?

 

I believe Karel is torn.  Is it really loyalty?  I think he was really mad at his brothers for what they did, for one, and two, I think that it was a little bit of saving his behind.  He just lost some of his dads land, so it may have been, fight w/ my father or get my behind beat by my father.  I do think there is a connection between Karel and his father that isn't there between the other brothers but I am not sure it is loyalty.

 

How would you describe any of the following influential men of Lavaca County: Vaclav, Dalton, Villasenor, Dvorak, Father Carew?

 

I think Vaclav, Dalton and Villasenor are exactly alike, they just have a different way of going about getting what they want. 

 

What are your impressions of each of Karel's brothers?

 

I am not sure.  I don't think the land is as important to them as it is to Karel.  It will be interesting to see what Bruce has instore for the brothers and if they end up forging a relationship

 

What kind of a person is Sophie, Karel's wife? Do we get a clear picture of her so far?

 

Sophie seems to be a very caring wife and mother.  So far it seems that she turns a blind eye to Karel's filandering ways, or she doesn't know about them one.  I got the impression that she loved her husband, even though it seems like he may still be hung up on Graciella, even though we don't know the full story of what happen between the two of them.   It is almost like an unconditional love she has for Karel.  I can't wait to read further and see exactly what kind of person she is and if she really loves Karel or if she stays with him because, back then, divorce was unheard of.

 

Do we get a more distinct impression of Elizka Novotny?

 

Honestly, right now, all I can say is total slut.  She is like a dog in heat.

 

What are your impressions of Graciela?

 

She does what she has too in order to get her way.  She doesn't seem to care who she hurts.  Product of her father.  Seem to be one in the same.


 

:smileyhappy:
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jodell7
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

How would you describe Karel as a son, as a brother, as a farmer, as a husband? Can you understand the loyalty he showed his father in the race against Graciela or in the fight after? Was it loyalty at all?

 

I don't think Karel knew the difference between love and hate.  He felt slighted in life and a piece of him was missing that affected him deeply.  I think he was more than loyal to his father.  I think he loved his father.  He thought this is the way life is supposed to be.  Take the good and the bad alike.  I don't think he ever thought he was being mistreated because he was hated.  He just didn't understand it.

 

What kind of a person is Sophie, Karel's wife? Do we get a clear picture of her so far?

 

Sophie was an outsider when he met her and didn't know Karel's history.  I think she has accepted him and loves him.  She doesn't know what makes him tick.

 

What are your impressions of Graciela?

 

I have several different impressions of her.  I think she is a free spirit that is kept under her father's hand.  She meets with Karel several times and I think she likes him as a friend but knows it can never be more than that.  I don't think she set out to hurt him.  I think she was giving him something to remember her by.

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ruthieWW
Posts: 27
Registered: ‎01-07-2010

Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Characters

What are your impressions of each of Karel's brothers? Stan is compared to a mother hen, so he must have exhibited some caring and even tenderness toward the younger boys. Eduard seems to use a bit of light-heartedness to soften any tension among them and he also has a soft heart for his baby brother. And Thom gives me the impression of a fearful, yet potentially dangerous man. Don't know yet if he is ruled by jealousy or ambition but I think the story line is leaning toward a person who will take advantage of a situation if the outcome were in his favor. What kind of a person is Sophie, Karel's wife? Do we get a clear picture of her so far? Sophie is a very likable character who is content to be a loving mother, a dutiful housewife and a supportive spouse. Already I suspect that she has suspicions of her husband's womanizing; but even though it would send the modern woman straight to divorce court, she remains in a marriage that I think she believes that she can save. She strikes me as a woman who has an unconditional love for Karel. Karel is good to her and provides for her and loves her in his own measure, but Sophie knows there is a deeper love that unites spirits with a intimacy that she craves. At this point I don't believe she is ready to give up on Karel and must see something in him worth all her personal sacrifices.