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reader76
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Forgiveness

I think he let Raymond go because he felt sorry for him.  He has lost his brother doing something stupid and maybe Karel felt some compassion toward him.  I think Karel's relationship with his brothers are strained because they abandoned their father to seek better life even it meant betraying Karel and his father.  Karel can tolerate his two brothers but not Thomas because he feels Tom stole the one woman he wanted.  I think Karel needs to ask forgiveness from his wife because she has put up with his wanderings and infidelity.  Also he needs to forgive himself for being the baby that killed his mother and lived.

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JaneM
Posts: 152
Registered: ‎02-01-2008

Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Forgiveness


Peppermill wrote:

 


BookWoman718 wrote:

I'm still trying to think through the novel's title.  It seemed to me that very little forgiveness occurs until close to the end of the book.  Yet "the wake of forgiveness" seems to suggest "what comes after- or follows - forgiveness."   

I believe Bruce implies a happier situation is on the threshold.  Karel finally realizes he should lay down his guilt (which should never have been allowed to develop in the first place) over his mother's death, and even over his father's death, which he witnessed, but had no real opportunity to prevent.  There are hesitant gestures from the brothers that Karel will be welcome to drop by.  Sophie has forgiven Karel, but has made a clear call to him, that when he is tempted to betray her, he should think of his son, if thoughts of his wife alone are not sufficient to deter him.  Yet, given their troubled history, we cannot be sure any of the hoped for improvements in these relationships will actually occur;  that they will indeed be in 'the wake of forgiveness.'

Knowing that Bruce is working on a sequel, it almost seems to me that THAT book should be the one called "The Wake of Forgiveness,"  - in which the reader finds out what really did occur after all this forgiveness took place - and that  this one should have a title more suggestive of the mood and the actions that take place within it.   ("Injuries" for instance?) 


 

Trust must always be earned, and yet it is also always a gift.

 

Somewhere there is a sentence Karel utters to the effect, 'can it really be this easy to re-establish contact with his brothers.'

 

Sometimes we make forgiveness -- giving or receiving -- much more difficult than need be.

 

And, as Krickett says above, once may not be enough, we may need to do it again and again.

 

A periodic point of discussion on my church's liturgy is the prayer of confession and the subsequent assurance of forgiveness -- ought/is it really this "easy"?  All of us know forgiveness can get messy -- Derrida will say "only the unforgivable can be forgiven," but then begs the question of what is the unforgivable -- for oneself, for the other.  Regardless, the "wake," the aftermath, does hold the hope of healing, of repaired life.


To comment further on the book title, "wake" has different connotations.  There is the noun "wake" which is a watch or vigil over a dead person.  In this book the death of the mother causes a wake in both Vaclav and his sons.  And then there is the verb "wake", which means to become roused from an inactive state, and it could be that the characters wake (or awaken) from their old views and resentments and are now ready to start down the path of forgiveness.

Jane M.
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Atreyu59
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Registered: ‎08-02-2010
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Forgiveness

JaneM - that was a pretty "on-target" analogy about the Wake & use of the word forgiveness; I agree with you 100%

 

I believe you hit the nail on the head with your assumptions.

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BooksToTheCeiling
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Registered: ‎07-31-2010
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Forgiveness

Karel lets Raymond Knedlik go. Why?

Karel had a cauldron of feelings to deal with and work through, but in the end I think he just wasn't able to back shoot anyone. He felt a connection with this person he thought of as a boy, and having risen above the violence he had been raised with, with held.

 

What do Karel and his brothers have to forgive each other for?

The brothers need to forgive the hard feelings they developed at the time of the family's division, at the time of the older brother's marriages.

 

Whom does Karel feel the need to ask for forgiveness?

I think he feels the need to ask forgiveness of Sophie for the wrongs he had done her.

 

Ultimately, who in the novel is "forgiven" and what does that mean?

The novel is about Karel and the burden of guilt he bares over various things. Karel is forgiven by Sophie, he comes to term with his mother's death at his birth, he and his brothers come to terms with their estrangement. I think it means healing, the relationships all around will begin to heal in the "wake" of the forgiveness that occurs at the end.

 

 

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floreader
Posts: 95
Registered: ‎09-15-2008
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Forgiveness


JaneM wrote:

Peppermill wrote:

 


BookWoman718 wrote:

I'm still trying to think through the novel's title.  It seemed to me that very little forgiveness occurs until close to the end of the book.  Yet "the wake of forgiveness" seems to suggest "what comes after- or follows - forgiveness."   

I believe Bruce implies a happier situation is on the threshold.  Karel finally realizes he should lay down his guilt (which should never have been allowed to develop in the first place) over his mother's death, and even over his father's death, which he witnessed, but had no real opportunity to prevent.  There are hesitant gestures from the brothers that Karel will be welcome to drop by.  Sophie has forgiven Karel, but has made a clear call to him, that when he is tempted to betray her, he should think of his son, if thoughts of his wife alone are not sufficient to deter him.  Yet, given their troubled history, we cannot be sure any of the hoped for improvements in these relationships will actually occur;  that they will indeed be in 'the wake of forgiveness.'

Knowing that Bruce is working on a sequel, it almost seems to me that THAT book should be the one called "The Wake of Forgiveness,"  - in which the reader finds out what really did occur after all this forgiveness took place - and that  this one should have a title more suggestive of the mood and the actions that take place within it.   ("Injuries" for instance?) 


 

Trust must always be earned, and yet it is also always a gift.

 

Somewhere there is a sentence Karel utters to the effect, 'can it really be this easy to re-establish contact with his brothers.'

 

Sometimes we make forgiveness -- giving or receiving -- much more difficult than need be.

 

And, as Krickett says above, once may not be enough, we may need to do it again and again.

 

A periodic point of discussion on my church's liturgy is the prayer of confession and the subsequent assurance of forgiveness -- ought/is it really this "easy"?  All of us know forgiveness can get messy -- Derrida will say "only the unforgivable can be forgiven," but then begs the question of what is the unforgivable -- for oneself, for the other.  Regardless, the "wake," the aftermath, does hold the hope of healing, of repaired life.


To comment further on the book title, "wake" has different connotations.  There is the noun "wake" which is a watch or vigil over a dead person.  In this book the death of the mother causes a wake in both Vaclav and his sons.  And then there is the verb "wake", which means to become roused from an inactive state, and it could be that the characters wake (or awaken) from their old views and resentments and are now ready to start down the path of forgiveness.


JaneM,

Very insightful post about the different meanings of "wake" and what forgiveness means.

 

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kstempien
Posts: 28
Registered: ‎12-01-2009
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Re: Wake of Forgiveness: Forgiveness

Karel lets Raymond Knedlik go. Why?

 

Karel wasn't truly a violent person, and I really don't think he could've killed Raymond.

 

 

What do Karel and his brothers have to forgive each other for?

 

I thnk they have to forgive each other for their unpleasent relationships as they grew up. To make a long story short, they were far more than unkind to each other. They treated each other poorly and didn't bother to have each other's back if a situation warranted such.

 

 

Whom does Karel feel the need to ask for forgiveness?

 

His brothers. I think he knew there was resentment on their part, toward him, and he doesn't want those types of feelings to come between them.

 

 

Ultimately, who in the novel is "forgiven" and what does that mean?

 

Forgiveness comes in many forms, which is highlighted in various fors through this story. Karel seeks the forgiveness towards his father, for the poor way he treated him and his brothers as they were growing up. He also seeks the forgiveness of his mother, feeling that she let him down. In his mind, she died when they were young and left them all alone, with their father, who didn't exactly treat them in the fairest manner.