Reply
Contributor
kimerella40
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎05-03-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

I liked that the ending tied together the book for me.  I got involved with Paul's character...liked him and felt him throughout the book.  I was sad it was him in the end, but more saddened that it doesn't really tell you if her lived or died or details.  I found this to be the most frustrating durign my reading of this book.  A chapter ended, and the next one seemed to jump ahead bot filling in the holes for me.   While I liked the book and it kept me reading going from character to character, I found it lacking in detail about scenes when it set me up for it.

Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,648
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

 

Vermontcozy wrote:

I just wanted to add a Thank you to Corinne,for allowing our intelligence to take over,and figure out the characters,however we perceived them at the beginning,middle and towards the end..It stretched our imagination..and we really got to know them,Paul especially,  ,that was a difficult scene.and the loss once again..Like the beginning....SusanVtc

 

This book did really make me think about the characters. So many flaws, which can add so many more twists to their lives. By the end Paul was a very major character.

 

Inspired Bibliophile
thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
Registered: ‎12-18-2007

Re: Paul and That Scene

The book never quite definitively states that Paul dies, does it? I think it infers it when Gillian ruminates about what she might have hit on the road and then after discovering whom she hit, when she coldly surmises that her life with Jerry is probably over. After all, not only did she run Paul down, she left the scene and never looked back. Jerry could never forgive her for that.

She pretended she hit a deer knowing that it was not really true. At worst, I felt that she thought since whatever happened had no witness, it wouldn't effect her. Maybe there will be a second book in the series and Paul will turn out only to have been gravely injured! He certainly didn't deserve to die. Anyway, that is the ending I would like to imagine since I kind of liked Paul and hoped he would develop into a fine young man in spite of his father's remote behavior and selfishness.

Inspired Correspondent
nfam
Posts: 231
Registered: ‎01-08-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

The opening scene is what induces us to read the rest of the novel. It would be cheating if it weren't tied in to the conclusion. I thought that was well done. I felt sorry that Paul had to die, but it seems to have been a way to make clear at the end just how self-centered and self-delusional Gillian was. Thinking that she hit a deer was a way of hiding from herself what she had really done. It goes along with the plagiarism. Gillian had convinced herself that she did nothing wrong in using other people's ideas. However, committing a hit-and-run accident is much more serious. It doesn't let her, or us, walk away from what she did.

Distinguished Wordsmith
MSaff
Posts: 272
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

  When I first started reading this novel and read that scene where the truck is going down a street and the headlights and turned off, as well as the person not being seen by the operator of the truck, I have to say that I thought it was the Doctor leaving the hospital and maybe nothing more.  Kind of like, the Doctor was feeling terrible because of the death of the infant, and he was not completely thinking as he left the hospital grounds.  It does fit in well with the ending of the story, because as we read the end of the story, here's Gillian driving her truck with the headlights off, not thinking about anything or anyone else but herself.  The scene does take on another look when read at the end of the novel. 

 

  As you read the scene at the beginning of the novel, I at least, felt as though it was going to be part of the book that Nancy was writing.  I was taken almost completely by surprise, when it turned out the Gillian was the person driving the darkened vehicle, and Paul was going to be the person in the shadows being struck by the vehicle.  I have to admit that I did not seen that coming until the very end, and even then as I read the last section of the book, I questioned whether it was going to be Kim or Paul, or both being hit and killed.

 

  Paul was a troubled young man with many issues.  He didn't like the school he was attending and he didn't appear to have any friends.  He tended to keep to himself, yet he could be personable.  He try's to like Gillian, but he appears to be torn between living with his father and Gillian or living with his mother, who by the way, we don't learn that much about. 

  We do learn more about Paul and even get to know him quite well.  At least that was my thought.  He is a trouble young man, as a stated before, and I was cheering for him to be able to make something of himself.  I was saddened when he died.

 

 

Rachel-K wrote:

 

How do you feel with the scene we witnessed at the opening of the novel  also becoming part of the novel's conclusion?

 

 

How does the scene change if you read it once as a fictional scene, written by one of the novel's characters, and then finally as a "real" scene about characters we know?

 

 

How would you describe Paul's character? How well did we get to know him?

 

 

 

Mike
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
http://travelswithcarsandbooks.blogspot.com/
Distinguished Wordsmith
maxcat
Posts: 4,011
Registered: ‎11-01-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

Twj,  i  like your response but there was a scene where Gillian is at her house and the phone rings. She wonders who knows that she is here in her house. When she picks up the phone, it's her lawyer and after he says something, she responds by saying she would be at her house. To me, that meant she got the info about Paul and she starts rambling on about him, not caring that he is dead, but that he is gone and she doesn't have to worry about it. It seems she went over the edge here as she starts talking about never seeing Jerry and it didn't matter as she could live there at "Button".

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
Inspired Contributor
Sherry_Young
Posts: 48
Registered: ‎09-02-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

The author never says that Paul dies so we are left to imagine. Is this because Paul didn't really die? I don't think so. I think it is to show Gillian's ego still gets in the way of her humanity.

 

thewanderingjew wrote:

The book never quite definitively states that Paul dies, does it? I think it infers it when Gillian ruminates about what she might have hit on the road and then after discovering whom she hit, when she coldly surmises that her life with Jerry is probably over. After all, not only did she run Paul down, she left the scene and never looked back. Jerry could never forgive her for that.

She pretended she hit a deer knowing that it was not really true. At worst, I felt that she thought since whatever happened had no witness, it wouldn't effect her. Maybe there will be a second book in the series and Paul will turn out only to have been gravely injured! He certainly didn't deserve to die. Anyway, that is the ending I would like to imagine since I kind of liked Paul and hoped he would develop into a fine young man in spite of his father's remote behavior and selfishness.

 

 

Let children read whatever they want and then talk about it with them. If parents and kids can talk together, we won't have as much censorship because we won't have as much fear.
— Judy Blume
Author
Corinne-Demas
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎04-07-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

A confession from the author here:

When I read this last chapter aloud to my writing group, we all cried, too!

 

I came to love Paul as if he were my own son.

 

--Corinne

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

DSaff wrote:

First off, I have to say that the ending made me cry! I had not expected Paul to be the one to die, but quickly figured that out after Kim left and the car started down the driveway. What a powerful, dramatic, tragic ending. It brought the novel full circle and gave us the reason for the opening.

 

Paul was one of my favorites because I thought he not only had a lot of potential, but was a young man caught up in circumstances beyond his control. He wanted to be successful, but really, what role model did he have to fall back on. Not until a teacher took an active role in his life did Paul realize that he could be more than he was. I think it hurt him to live with his father and not his mother because he didn't have the love and support he needed. He gave his life (unexpectantly) to his first love and Kim witnessed it never knowing how he felt. Paul had been used by Gillian for too long to get what she wanted from his father and now had been killed by the same witch. He had known about her novel but not about the impact of her theft. Paul had grown larger than life and had become real because we empathized with him, wanted him taken to safety, and wanted him to get help. His character was one of hope and struggle; one we could watch grow and change. He is absolutely one of the central characters to me.

 

 

 

 

Contributor
skrupp
Posts: 21
Registered: ‎02-04-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

I agree with others that said the scene brought closure to the novel.  It was a tragic end to a young life that was beyond the control of those involved.  Ironic since Gillian said that it had to be the doctor's fault that the baby died in the story.  Even though she caused the tragic accident it happened in  a spot that even in the best of circumstances would have been difficult to prevent.

I really liked Paul as a character.  I see him as any teenage boy, trying to figure out who he is and where he belongs.  He feels caught to some degree between his parents and lonely without friends.

Author
Corinne-Demas
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎04-07-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

Hi Debbie--

I've been thinking about your question about what, I, as the author,hoped for.

A main goal is for you, the reader, to find my characters believable, and to be interested in the way their lives intersect. I do like novels that leave you with questions-- just as it is with real life.

I hope there were a few questions that The Writing Center raised and answered for you.

For instance: Did Nancy earn her place with the Leopardis?  Did they rally on her behalf?

Did Adam come to see Gillian as she really was, in spite of his initial infatuation with her?

Did Gillian get away with everything in the end?

 

About Paul:  would we judge Gillian's behavior any differently if Paul dies or survives?

 

Thanks for being part of our discussion!

 

--Corinne

 

 

wrote:

Well at least now I know what happened at the first of the novel.

 

the whole novel is a mystery to me, it left me with many more questions than answers, if the author hoped for that then she got what she wanted.

 

In the "accident" scene, did Paul die? It was never made clear to me. I mean even if he lived, leaving the scene is a crime so that answers why Gillian was talking to her lawyer.

 

I think we got to know Paul pretty well, he was a kid, confused by his role in this "new" life of his after his parents divorce, but pretty well adjusted even though he made some bad decisions, like we all have as kids and even as adults

 

 

Moderator
dhaupt
Posts: 11,827
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Paul and That Scene

[ Edited ]

 


Corinne-Demas wrote:

Hi Debbie--

I've been thinking about your question about what, I, as the author,hoped for.

A main goal is for you, the reader, to find my characters believable, and to be interested in the way their lives intersect. I do like novels that leave you with questions-- just as it is with real life.

I hope there were a few questions that The Writing Center raised and answered for you.

For instance: Did Nancy earn her place with the Leopardis?  Did they rally on her behalf?

Did Adam come to see Gillian as she really was, in spite of his initial infatuation with her?

Did Gillian get away with everything in the end?

 

About Paul:  would we judge Gillian's behavior any differently if Paul dies or survives?

 

Thanks for being part of our discussion!

 

--Corinne

 

 

wrote:

Well at least now I know what happened at the first of the novel.

 

the whole novel is a mystery to me, it left me with many more questions than answers, if the author hoped for that then she got what she wanted.

 

In the "accident" scene, did Paul die? It was never made clear to me. I mean even if he lived, leaving the scene is a crime so that answers why Gillian was talking to her lawyer.

 

I think we got to know Paul pretty well, he was a kid, confused by his role in this "new" life of his after his parents divorce, but pretty well adjusted even though he made some bad decisions, like we all have as kids and even as adults

 

 


 

 

Corinne, thanks for answering that question.

I enjoyed the characters and I think you did very well in establishing their pecking order and developing them into believable people that we might meet or know ourselves.

Gosh Gillian was just what the novel needed though wasn't she some one for us all to seethe about as she spins her different webs of destruction, we wouldn't want to get to complacent and not use our baser emotions. ;-)

 

I do believe that I will definitely have to re-read this novel though it didn't do well for me reading it in sections, also I think for me anyway that this would be a better read in book form, there was a lot I wished to go back to that didn't ring true to me in digital form, maybe as I get more used to reading in this manner it will become easier to rewind if you will.

 

Thank you Corinne for sharing this with us and I only wish you great success with it as it goes out there for publication.

First Look is a unique opportunity for both reader and author to get that all important "First Look".

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,648
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

 


dhaupt wrote:

 


Corinne-Demas wrote:

Hi Debbie--

I've been thinking about your question about what, I, as the author,hoped for.

A main goal is for you, the reader, to find my characters believable, and to be interested in the way their lives intersect. I do like novels that leave you with questions-- just as it is with real life.

I hope there were a few questions that The Writing Center raised and answered for you.

For instance: Did Nancy earn her place with the Leopardis?  Did they rally on her behalf?

Did Adam come to see Gillian as she really was, in spite of his initial infatuation with her?

Did Gillian get away with everything in the end?

 

About Paul:  would we judge Gillian's behavior any differently if Paul dies or survives?

 

Thanks for being part of our discussion!

 

--Corinne

 

 

wrote:

Well at least now I know what happened at the first of the novel.

 

the whole novel is a mystery to me, it left me with many more questions than answers, if the author hoped for that then she got what she wanted.

 

In the "accident" scene, did Paul die? It was never made clear to me. I mean even if he lived, leaving the scene is a crime so that answers why Gillian was talking to her lawyer.

 

I think we got to know Paul pretty well, he was a kid, confused by his role in this "new" life of his after his parents divorce, but pretty well adjusted even though he made some bad decisions, like we all have as kids and even as adults

 

 


 

 

Corinne, thanks for answering that question.

I enjoyed the characters and I think you did very well in establishing their pecking order and developing them into believable people that we might meet or know ourselves.

Gosh Gillian was just what the novel needed though wasn't she some one for us all to seethe about as she spins her different webs of destruction, we wouldn't want to get to complacent and not use our baser emotions. ;-)

 

I do believe that I will definitely have to re-read this novel though it didn't do well for me reading it in sections, also I think for me anyway that this would be a better read in book form, there was a lot I wished to go back to that didn't ring true to me in digital form, maybe as I get more used to reading in this manner it will become easier to rewind if you will.

 

Thank you Corinne for sharing this with us and I only wish you great success with it as it goes out there for publication.

First Look is a unique opportunity for both reader and author to get that all important "First Look".

 

 


 

 

I think this book would be better if it wasn't read in sections. It is hard to divide a book to read in this way. I am not sure where good points would be. I think this book would be good in one sitting. I wanted to know more about the characters and stopping at that first section was very hard.

 

Debbie, I am learning how to go back and forth with the nook. I do need to use the bookmark feature more. But I used the main preface, chapter to jump around with the nook. The Nook at Night sessions have been helpful with that. But I agree it takes more time and practice.

pen21

 

 

Distinguished Wordsmith
maxcat
Posts: 4,011
Registered: ‎11-01-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

I agree, Pen, with what you are saying about the book. My general feeling is that this should not have been presented as an ebook. It was much harder to go back and look for things in this format. I used bookmarks, but somehow I lost them. To me, this would appeal to somone much better in book form only. The characters were confusing at first and I started keeping a journal when I found that I lost my bookmarks. My husband's one reply was that I was writing down as much as what was in the ebook. With a hardback, you can note references so you could go back and forth as you are reading. I think, in this case, it would have been easier on us to judge Corrine's book.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
Author
Corinne-Demas
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎04-07-2010

Re: Paul and That Scene

Thank you!

Flawed characters are what writers love to write about.

 

I know that some of you questioned why Paul was given his own chapters earlier in the book, since he wasn't a Leopardi.  I needed to have you know him-- his inner life as well as his outer life--so that you would care about what happens to him at the end.

That was such a painful hard scene for me to write-- I felt such affection for Paul!

 

--Corinne

 


pen21 wrote:

 

Vermontcozy wrote:

I just wanted to add a Thank you to Corinne,for allowing our intelligence to take over,and figure out the characters,however we perceived them at the beginning,middle and towards the end..It stretched our imagination..and we really got to know them,Paul especially,  ,that was a difficult scene.and the loss once again..Like the beginning....SusanVtc

 

This book did really make me think about the characters. So many flaws, which can add so many more twists to their lives. By the end Paul was a very major character.

 


 

 

Author
Corinne-Demas
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎04-07-2010

Re: Paul and That Scene

Music to my ears!

 

--Corinne


pen21 wrote:

 

Vermontcozy wrote:

I just wanted to add a Thank you to Corinne,for allowing our intelligence to take over,and figure out the characters,however we perceived them at the beginning,middle and towards the end..It stretched our imagination..and we really got to know them,Paul especially,  ,that was a difficult scene.and the loss once again..Like the beginning....SusanVtc

 

This book did really make me think about the characters. So many flaws, which can add so many more twists to their lives. By the end Paul was a very major character.

 


 

 

Author
Corinne-Demas
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎04-07-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

Debbie--

 

Thank you for your support!

 

I would imagine reading a novel like this in sections would be difficult in any case, and reading it on an electronic device would make it even more difficult. I certainly wasn't considering  the challenges an electronic reading device might pose  when I wrote The Writing Circle-- I was picturing my readers with a real book, where they could flip back and take a second look at previous sections.  (The way the hardback has been designed this is easy to do.) 

 

Although I compose on my laptop, when I was working on this novel I printed out each new version of the book because I needed to see it on paper. I find it much easier to find sections and refer back to things with an actual printed manuscript than dealing with a novel on my computer. 

 

--Corinne

 


dhaupt wrote:

 


Corinne-Demas wrote:

Hi Debbie--

I've been thinking about your question about what, I, as the author,hoped for.

A main goal is for you, the reader, to find my characters believable, and to be interested in the way their lives intersect. I do like novels that leave you with questions-- just as it is with real life.

I hope there were a few questions that The Writing Center raised and answered for you.

For instance: Did Nancy earn her place with the Leopardis?  Did they rally on her behalf?

Did Adam come to see Gillian as she really was, in spite of his initial infatuation with her?

Did Gillian get away with everything in the end?

 

About Paul:  would we judge Gillian's behavior any differently if Paul dies or survives?

 

Thanks for being part of our discussion!

 

--Corinne

 

 

wrote:

Well at least now I know what happened at the first of the novel.

 

the whole novel is a mystery to me, it left me with many more questions than answers, if the author hoped for that then she got what she wanted.

 

In the "accident" scene, did Paul die? It was never made clear to me. I mean even if he lived, leaving the scene is a crime so that answers why Gillian was talking to her lawyer.

 

I think we got to know Paul pretty well, he was a kid, confused by his role in this "new" life of his after his parents divorce, but pretty well adjusted even though he made some bad decisions, like we all have as kids and even as adults

 

 


 

 

Corinne, thanks for answering that question.

I enjoyed the characters and I think you did very well in establishing their pecking order and developing them into believable people that we might meet or know ourselves.

Gosh Gillian was just what the novel needed though wasn't she some one for us all to seethe about as she spins her different webs of destruction, we wouldn't want to get to complacent and not use our baser emotions. ;-)

 

I do believe that I will definitely have to re-read this novel though it didn't do well for me reading it in sections, also I think for me anyway that this would be a better read in book form, there was a lot I wished to go back to that didn't ring true to me in digital form, maybe as I get more used to reading in this manner it will become easier to rewind if you will.

 

Thank you Corinne for sharing this with us and I only wish you great success with it as it goes out there for publication.

First Look is a unique opportunity for both reader and author to get that all important "First Look".

 

 


 

 

Author
Corinne-Demas
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎04-07-2010
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

Dear Maxcat--

 

I wish you'd all had the option of choosing between a printed and electronic copy.  I know that a number of folks who signed up initially dropped out because they weren't comfortable with the electronic book reading experience, of they didn't have access to the devices. 

 

My guess is that some books might do quite well as digital downloads (or well enough) -- but that a book like mine, with many characters and many layers, suffers in the digital format.  I was concerned when I heard that some of the reading devices were presenting the entire text in the same font, since the book designer had worked hard, with my input, to select fonts so that the Leopardi's writing samples would be clearly set off from the text.

As I wrote to someone on another thread, I recently got my author copies, and the finished book is beautifully laid out-- the white space gives you breathing (and thinking) room, and each character's name is set off well at the start of each chapter, so it's easy to flip back and find things.And with paper copies you can stick in real bookmarks wherever you would find them useful (I use thin ribbons) and make notes in the margins or stick post-its on the pages.

I spend so much time working on a computer every day that when I read a novel I want the full, physical pleasure of it-- the feel, the smell.

I hope you get a chance to see the actual hardback when it comes out (July 6th)  so you can see how it ideally was presented.

 

--Corinne

 

 

 


maxcat wrote:

I agree, Pen, with what you are saying about the book. My general feeling is that this should not have been presented as an ebook. It was much harder to go back and look for things in this format. I used bookmarks, but somehow I lost them. To me, this would appeal to somone much better in book form only. The characters were confusing at first and I started keeping a journal when I found that I lost my bookmarks. My husband's one reply was that I was writing down as much as what was in the ebook. With a hardback, you can note references so you could go back and forth as you are reading. I think, in this case, it would have been easier on us to judge Corrine's book.


 

 

Distinguished Wordsmith
maxcat
Posts: 4,011
Registered: ‎11-01-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

Thank you, Corrine for that beautiful insight. I would love to see the finished book in hardback come July 6th. Somehow, your book lost its flavor presented as an ebook and you are correct in saying we should have the option of reading the physical book or the ebook. May your book do well in sales and I'll be looking for it as I want to see what you are talking about. The prefave was in a different font but everything else was in the normal font.

The woods are lovely, dark and deep, but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep - Robert Frost
Frequent Contributor
looptyloo
Posts: 44
Registered: ‎12-29-2009
0 Kudos

Re: Paul and That Scene

How do you feel with the scene we witnessed at the opening of the novel  also becoming part of the novel's conclusion?

It bought the book back full circle. I felt tlike the scene at the beginning had to have meaning. Even if the meaning was only to come from the story that echoed behind it quickly.

 

 

How does the mystery of this scene fit in with the rest of the novel?

It doesn't really to me. The tone changes drastically after the book party to me.

 

How does the scene change if you read it once as a fictional scene, written by one of the novel's characters, and then finally as a "real" scene about characters we know?

It turns it from something on a "page" to be read, into something that happened to one of the characters that I had come to like.

 

 

How would you describe Paul's character? How well did we get to know him?

Paul is such a typical teenager. He is sullen, acts stupidly, and harvests a crush for months, only for it to be bad for him. Paul also appears to hide his intelligence. He loves his mom and wants to  be there with her, but he also loves the "freedom" and experiences of being with his father and Gillian. Like most teens he is not his own, but whatever and whoever his"parents" want him to be.

It felt like we only got to know Paul superficially through Gillian and Rachel. We learn a bit more during Paul's own chapters, but those are spread well, so that it seems that most information is coming from one of those two.

 

Inspired Wordsmith
Sunltcloud
Posts: 933
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Paul and That Scene

I am convinced that Paul is dead. I justify this by tying it to the scene of the dead mouse at Buttons (the house that Gillian rents - I can't quite remember if this is the correct name for it and am in a hurry, .... almost out the door....) The scene wasn't really necessary unless it had to tell us something important about Gillian: namely that she is horrified to look at dead animals. Gillian flees the scene in the driveway instinctively, because the hit must have been hard enough to let her imagine that she killed something.

 

And symbolically speaking (I apologize to those who don't want to see symbols in everything and to the author who might not have felt symbolism was necessary here), anyway, symbolically speaking, a minor death (mouse) for me was a warning signal that not all is well in Gillian's world. Why else would a prominent poet fall apart at the sight of a dead mouse? The punishment for stealing material from Nancy had to be an event that would expose her inner decay, make her run from confronting the truth about her own carefully constructed self-image. The house where she wrote poetry was a house of cards, her marriage and even her pretend mothering of Paul are built on shaky ground. Death weakened Gillian. Now death will destroy Gillian.

 

The real answer, of course, is that NO, "the book never quite definitively states that Paul dies."

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

The book never quite definitively states that Paul dies, does it? I think it infers it when Gillian ruminates about what she might have hit on the road and then after discovering whom she hit, when she coldly surmises that her life with Jerry is probably over. After all, not only did she run Paul down, she left the scene and never looked back. Jerry could never forgive her for that.

She pretended she hit a deer knowing that it was not really true. At worst, I felt that she thought since whatever happened had no witness, it wouldn't effect her. Maybe there will be a second book in the series and Paul will turn out only to have been gravely injured! He certainly didn't deserve to die. Anyway, that is the ending I would like to imagine since I kind of liked Paul and hoped he would develop into a fine young man in spite of his father's remote behavior and selfishness.