The Writing Circle: Early Chapters (through Chris's first chapter)

[sharonslp]

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I am not bothered by switching perspectives. This is a perfectly good narrative device, and in this kind of a story, it seems a useful way to get at all the nuances of character. A single narrator in this story would have no way of knowing everything about each of the members of the writing circle. 

Nancy is definitely the main character to me. In part because her chapter is first. In part because she is the new person to the group, so in the beginning the group kind of unfolds around her. A new person in any group always changes the group dynamics. We clearly see everyone reacting to her as much as she reacts to them. Also, the preface sets up the story to present a sort of mystery. Once it becomes clear that the preface is about Nancy's father, she definitely takes center stage for me. 

I'm not particularly drawn to any of the characters so far. I came close to joining a writing group about a year ago. If it's anything like this one, I'm glad I didn't! Gillian engenders a great deal of dislike for me, particularly after Paul's chapter. It feels like she is toying with a vulnerable teenager. That chapter was hard for me to follow. Is Paul angry with her or does he like her? Does he have a crush on her? Is she manipulating him (as it appears that she manipulates everyone)? Is he going to be a casualty in this book?

Home lives.....I was struck in the beginning with how pathetic Bernard comes across. He clearly knows Aimee is attempting to manipulate his attendance at the writing circle with sex. Is Aimee just insecure, or is Bernard really making the Circle more important than her. His ex-wife is in the circle....it does seem like a way to exclude Aimee. Inclusion and exclusion.....starting to appear to be themes of the book.  

[Sunltcloud]

Sharonslp,

Not all writers' groups are difficult. I have belonged to a memoir writing group for several years and we are very supportive of each other. Sure, a newcomer is always the outsider for a while, it's the nature of group behaviour, no matter how hard we try to include somebody. After having spilled your deepest secrets to a group you develop a sense of family togetherness; a familiarity that seems, in the beginning, unattainable to the newcomer.

Yes, there are irritations. There is the person who bores the rest with genealogy/family trees. The guy who treats writing as engineering schematic. The woman who always reads five minutes longer than she should. The comma queen. The know-it-all who wants only praise and defends every word he/she wrote.  The one who keeps a copy of your writing to show to her best friend (without your permission). The one who thinks writing groups are therapy sessions. Hm, all this sounds almost as bad......but in the long run we listen to each other and respect each other's feelings.

The group I belong to is a bigger group; most of us are seniors; we don't socialize outside our Tuesday afternoon get-togethers, but we keep track of each other. Several have self-published; one has a son who is a publisher. We have "Book Launchings" and we produced a cookbook which contains stories and recipes.

[thewanderingjew]

Rachel-K wrote:

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

There were times when I did get some of the characters and their spouses confused... and had to go back and reread certain portions. It is not as easy on the laptop as it would be with a book but it worked.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

So far Nancy seems to be central to all of the other characters as well. They meet and discuss her and appear to be taking sides or perhaps taking her measure and the measure of each other regarding her input and ultimate effect on the grouop. Some seem very competitive and threatened by the success of others.

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

I disliked Gillian because I felt she seemed self absorbed, devious and manipulative.

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters?

There is a lot of dysfunction in the lives of the people in the writing group.

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

The last chapter threw me for a loop and I really did not want to stop reading. I thought boy, Chris' really made a poor choice in wife number one! He seemed to be so devoted to his kids and she seemed to be trying tro foil all of his efforts.

[violetangel]

sharonslp wrote:

I'm not particularly drawn to any of the characters so far. I came close to joining a writing group about a year ago. If it's anything like this one, I'm glad I didn't! Gillian engenders a great deal of dislike for me, particularly after Paul's chapter. It feels like she is toying with a vulnerable teenager. That chapter was hard for me to follow. Is Paul angry with her or does he like her? Does he have a crush on her? Is she manipulating him (as it appears that she manipulates everyone)? Is he going to be a casualty in this book?

I've purposely avoided joining the writing group(s) that evolved from people doing National Novel Writing Month in NYC for exactly the kind of competitive, snarky behavior exhibited by these writers thus far.  About the only thing missing from what I know of them from reading the blogs of my friends who were silly enough to participate and then get physically ill when they're up is people actually tweeting sections of the book or quotes from the discussions.  Talk about confidentiality breech.  YUCK!

OTOH, I've had wonderful experiences with my classes in playwriting done through Gotham, so I know I'm not opposed to all writing groups.  Just snarky ones.  And this one has enough characters that come off as completely snarky to make me not like it one little bit.

[Sunltcloud]

I absolutely loved the classes I took at Gotham (Screen/Fiction/Memoir/Travel writing) all were done by superb instructors and most people in the groups were really willing to work hard and still have fun

violetangel wrote:

sharonslp wrote:

I'm not particularly drawn to any of the characters so far. I came close to joining a writing group about a year ago. If it's anything like this one, I'm glad I didn't! Gillian engenders a great deal of dislike for me, particularly after Paul's chapter. It feels like she is toying with a vulnerable teenager. That chapter was hard for me to follow. Is Paul angry with her or does he like her? Does he have a crush on her? Is she manipulating him (as it appears that she manipulates everyone)? Is he going to be a casualty in this book?

I've purposely avoided joining the writing group(s) that evolved from people doing National Novel Writing Month in NYC for exactly the kind of competitive, snarky behavior exhibited by these writers thus far.  About the only thing missing from what I know of them from reading the blogs of my friends who were silly enough to participate and then get physically ill when they're up is people actually tweeting sections of the book or quotes from the discussions.  Talk about confidentiality breech.  YUCK!

OTOH, I've had wonderful experiences with my classes in playwriting done through Gotham, so I know I'm not opposed to all writing groups.  Just snarky ones.  And this one has enough characters that come off as completely snarky to make me not like it one little bit.

.

[RebaJane]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer?

I'm not a fan of switching perspective from character-to-character when there are so many characters. I think that format works well with three characters or less who are more or less telling the same story. Switching between so many characters with so many different stories tends to unnerve me. Some of the other members used the word "disjointed" and I think that describes the feeling. In addition, I haven't become "invested" in any of the characters because I don't have enough information about any of them to become invested.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

I did feel that Nancy was the main character for me and that may be because the book started with her. For me, I would like to know more about Nancy, her life, her background to see why she is feeling as she does and where she is trying to go. What is Aliki like? What is Oates like?

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

I immediately liked Virginia because she seemed the most realistic and grounded of the group of characters. She seemed to know what she wanted and where she was going and was OK to let others live their lives. I disliked Gillian because even though she was at first portrayed as a strong female writer, she actually tended toward the skittish and dependent. She couldn't even get rid of a dead mouse for heaven's sake. However, I feel that's something else that hasn't been fully explained yet -- why she has such an abhorrence for dead things.

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters?

Bernard seems to be catering to a young wife because it's easier than not catering to her; Virginia seems to be complete and happy; Nancy is unsure of herself and therefore unsure of her relationship -- the neatness of her home is in contrast to the chaos inside; Gillian likes being married to a doctor and to someone who will protect her but doesn't seem emotionally invested in the relationship at all; Adam is young and unsure of what direction his life should take; Chris is conflicted -- he wants a family and wants to be with his children but can't fully commit to a wife.

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

Gillian's chapter with the dead mouse and then Adam.

I also agree with VioletAngel that I was immediately taken in by the story Nancy was writing and think that would make an excellent book.

[rujama]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? 

I like switching perspectives, it allows me to get a closer look at why the characters act the way they do. Sort of like a fly on the wall type thing. 

Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

I like to analyze people and their thoughts and their actions so for me I would really like to get to know Gillian more. I know she doesn’t seem to be the nicest person and she seems the most self absorbed but I would like to find out more about her. 

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

For me Nancy seems to be the “main” character. I feel as Nancy is gaining some insight on the different people in the writing group, we are also being led into their lives only from a different stand point.  I don’t feel that we only have her perspective on things. In the group setting it is nice to listen to her thoughts and get an outsiders look on the characters. 

Which characters do you take to immediately? 

 I liked Nancy from the beginning. She seems to be a strong women, very intellectual and very observant. I like how we can see through her character the interactions of the others in the writing circle. 

Do you dislike anyone immediately? 

I disliked Gillian at first, but she’s a bit mysterious and I’m thinking a like her a bit more. Not that I condone her actions with Adam, which I had to read twice just to make sure I was getting the point correct, but she is the character that I find myself trying to figure out the most. Why was she so taken back by the fact that the mouse was trapped and perhaps gave up on life and curled up and died? I’m still having a hard time “seeing” Gillian, my mind keeps jumping back and fourth between a mature almost exotic looking women and a young 20 something year old. I know she is not in her 20’s but her actions give off as much. 

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters? 

All the characters seem to have something missing in their lives, something they are still searching for and trying to figure out. 

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

I don’t think I was really surprised by any of the chapters, but some of the actions were surprising, Gillian and Adam, Chris being arrested was almost painful. The one chapter that seemed odd to me was “Paul” I haven’t been able to figure out why that chapter or perspective was added. At this point in the book it almost seems out of place but it did give me some more insight on Gillian. 

[violetangel]

Sunltcloud wrote:

I absolutely loved the classes I took at Gotham (Screen/Fiction/Memoir/Travel writing) all were done by superb instructors and most people in the groups were really willing to work hard and still have fun

.

Oh yeah, Gotham is amazing!  I think their "Booth" pattern really helps guide the critiques.  Even when someone is saying something negative, it's done in a supportive manner.  The only time someone ever started to get snarky in my second time through playwriting, the instructor pretty much shut him down, which made the rest of us feel a lot safer.  Can't wait to take another class!  In the fall for sure!

[rujama]

sharonslp wrote:

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Is Paul angry with her or does he like her? Does he have a crush on her? Is she manipulating him (as it appears that she manipulates everyone)? Is he going to be a casualty in this book?

Wow, sharonslp! I never thought of this. Could Gillian be manipulating the teenage boy! That is a sick but very interesting perspective. Adam is very young himself and could this be her thing? Very interesting.

[thewanderingjew]

Personally, I think Gillian is one sick puppy. She doesn't really consider the consequences of her behavior and just acts out in whatever way she pleases. I had the feeling that she was coming on to Paul and that he did not know what to make of it...he seems to want to be liked and noticed and she seems to want to "win" in all situations...have the last word and simply satisfy her own needs regardless of the cost to others. I feel as if she wants control over others. I am interested in seeing how she develops. Someone pointed out the similarity between her driveway and the driveway in the preface. Perhaps there is a reason for her selfish behavior that we will learn later. For sure, there is a mystery here.

rujama wrote:

sharonslp wrote:

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Is Paul angry with her or does he like her? Does he have a crush on her? Is she manipulating him (as it appears that she manipulates everyone)? Is he going to be a casualty in this book?

Wow, sharonslp! I never thought of this. Could Gillian be manipulating the teenage boy! That is a sick but very interesting perspective. Adam is very young himself and could this be her thing? Very interesting.

[doggiemom2]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

*At first, I hated the switching back and forth, but as I continued reading I enjoyed it and couldn't wait to get back to each person's story. I wanted to learn more about Gillian.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

*I didn't get that Nancy was the main. I thought each person was important.

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

*I took to Gillian right away, but I didn't like her either. I just wanted to know more about her.

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters?

*It seems that they all have problems of some sort. None of them really know each other.

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

*N/A

[cynthiaoh]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

I am not a fan of this when there are this many characters and this many sub-plots.  It is difficult for me to follow since I haven't really found a character to "bond" with and one has not really come forth yet as what I would consider to be the main character.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

(See above answer)  Nancy feels like one of the top three, but I haven't really seen one evolve yet as the main character.  Again, this is because I am not feel any kind of like, compassion or concern for any of the characters yet.  I find a few annoying, but nothing to really give into and truly care about.  I keep waiting for one of these characters to spring forth and impress me one way or another. 

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

I haven't really taken to any characters yet.  Gillian is easy to dislike, but I am reserving any really dislike as I think we are going to find that she has a lot more going on that will cause us to have sympathy rather than dislike for her.

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters?

All of their home lives seem to be in some level of chaos and unhappiness.  No one seems truly content with their current living situation.  Perhaps that is their common thread and what drive those in the circle to write -- to escape and create more interesting stories and plots than what they experience on a day to day basis.

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

Nothing has really jumped out yet -- maybe that  in itself is the surprise for me at this point.

[MelloLisa]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

I'm in general agreement with the feedback that this book was hard to get into.  The changing points of view made it seem like trying to keep track of a soap opera.

That said, what I liked about Nancy's perspective was that she, like the reader, was new to the group, so you got to see things from the point of view of a newcomer who had never met anyone in the group before except for Bernard.

While reading, I kept the preface in mind, wondering what those two scenes had to do with the rest of the story.

It wasn't until later in the book that I actually wanted to keep reading.  At this point, favorite characters were Virginia and Nancy, and the ones I didn't like were Chris and Gillian.

Lisa

[skrupp]

I don't mind switching from person to person it is not my favorite way to read but I do understand the advantages of that writing style. 

I don't know that I would call anyone the "main" character at this point.

As far as characters that I took to immediately, I really liked Paul.  could have stayed with him longer.  I disliked Gillian from the beginning.

[StewiesMom]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

I like reading a short bit from each character.  It would have been nice to stay with Virginia a little bit longer.  So far, I like her most of all.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

I don't know if I'd consider Nancy the main character.  It is true that we have been given a glimpse into her history through her father (in the preface), but I don't feel as though she is the main character, yet.  Perhaps that will change after we've read further.

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

I immediately liked Bernard and Virginia, and I immediately disliked Gillian.  I like the fact that these two characters are comfortable enough with themselves and with each other that they are able to remain friendly after their divorce.  It is nice to have two characters who can recognize the value of each others' company as friends, even though they weren't meant to be romantically linked.  I don't appreciate Gillian's apparent self absorption.  She seems like a really superficial person.

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters?

I'd say that most of the characters' home lives are slightly dysfunctional.  They all have their quirks.  Everyone has a pattern to their life that seems normal, even if it is a little different than someone else's pattern.

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

I was most surprised by Paul's inclusion.  We learn of the family member's of each participant of the writing circle, but I didn't realize that Paul would be so central to the story that he warrants his own chapter.  Not a bad thing, but I am wondering why.

[TudorRose]

I am really enjoying The Writer's Circle so far.  I love how the book starts out.  We get a glimpse of the end, but we don't know yet know which characters we are experiencing and how they got there or what happens next.  This really drew me into the book and was a great way to get started. 

I also like the way that Nancy's book is gradually woven into the story.  I wasn't really sure how the doctor and the baby fit in with the rest of the work, but I was intrigued. 

I also love the Ms. Demas' writing style is very tactile and sensory.  I love her description of the ordinary elements that surround her characters.  She writes about the smell of pines, leaves clawing on the pavement, slimy mushrooms.  The moldy smell in Gillian's bathroom while the rest of her house smelled of lilac was great.  I'm sure that there is some foreshadowing here, but I don't know where we are going with that yet.  The moldy smell must be an analogy to Gillian herself, something rotten, bruised, damaged at her core, but I don't know her story yet. All these nuances make the story feel very real, more of an experience, than simply reading. 

On a lighter note, I got a kick out of Gillian's reaction to Adam's girlfriend's name.  As a Kimberly, I can relate!  Growing up, it seemed there were at least three or four of us in every class!  One of those names that defines your generation.

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

I like the way the narrative switches viewpoints.  It lets you get to know the characters from the outside-in.  It allows the reader to experience the character through another's viewpoint and then from their own.  I think this style also creates a certain amount of tension in the work.  You want to know more about the character you are focused on and then the story switches to someone else.  To me, this tension keeps the story moving and is a technique that not many authors use.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

I think that Nancy is the "main" character of the novel, but with the switching narrative, I feel that the other characters become more important than just a supporting cast.  I think that we gain a real feeling of a circle with the switching viewpoints.  It is interesting to see how one character views another and how that perception matches up with the character's own viewpoint.  I think what we lose with this, is that we don't really know that much about Nancy yet, but as I mentioned earlier, this isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that I intensely dislike Gillian, however, I am totally intrigued with her character and want to know more about her.  I am more curious about her than any of the other characters, including Nancy.  Why is Gillian so terrified of a dead mouse, to the point that she can't even be in the kitchen?  Why does she feel that guilt is the most complex emotion?  Why is she so fixated on the word "still" (this made me think of the baby in Nancy's novel)?  Gillian thinks that "The idea of a view not seen, of something known about but denied was more interesting than an open view."  This simple and elegant phrase makes me wonder what she is hiding.

I think that Nancy is probably my favorite character.  Her insecurities make her very real and endearing, however, they can get a little bit annoying at times.  I sometimes wish that she had more faith in her ability, but this makes her more real.  I'm sure we should have more faith in our talents and abilities! 

How would you describe the home lives of each of our characters?

The characters' home lives seem sort of empty to me.  Maybe that is because we haven't really gotten to know to the significant people in their lives yet.  Gillian is seen as maternal by her students and Adam, but I don't think her stepson Paul thinks of her in this way.  Gillian didn't seem very conflicted with her affair with Adam.  Maybe she is looking for something to feel guilty about.  I felt the most sympathy for Chris.  Struggling to be a single parent and only seeing your children once a week is heartbreaking.  I hope that there is a resolution for him and his children at the end of the novel.  I am not impressed with Bernard's wife.  She seems very shallow and possessive.  As the novel progresses, I'm sure these characters and their motivations will become more clear.

Whose chapter is most surprising for you?

The most surprising aspect of the novel so far for me was Gillian's terror with the dead mouse.  She had seemed confident and strong up to this point, but now I'm wondering what forces in her life have made her so strident, almost to the the point of meanness, but so vulnerable and fearful at the same time.

I am really enjoying the novel so far and can't wait to see what all of you in our circle have thought of the book so far!  Have a great week!

[TudorRose]

This is an interesting speculation about the opening of the book.  I have been trying to piece together who is who and this is an interesting idea. 

I have been toying with the idea that Nancy and Chris will be drawn together and they are somehow involved in this opening drama.  I guess we will have to wait and see!

[dabevans]

What effect does switching the perspective from chapter to chapter have on your reading? Which characters did you want to stay with longer? 

I don't mind the chapters being written from different points of view. I like reading from the different perspectives of the characters. I wanted to keep reading about Virginia a bit more because she and I have a bit in common. I also wanted a chapter from Aimee's perspective, and why she's married to a man who doesn't seem like an obvious choice for her husband.

Is Nancy the "main" character for you? If you feel she is, what do we gain or lose by not sticking only with her perspective to this point in the novel?

I think Nancy is the main character for me (so far) simply because the book opens with a snippet from her novel, and then Part One starts from her perspective.

Which characters do you take to immediately? Do you dislike anyone immediately?

I disliked Gillian almost immediately. To be fair,I think her character was set up to fail, so to speak, from the start. Nancy remembers meeting Gillian twice, but Gillian doesn't remember her. Virginia doesn't think Gillian will like Nancy. It's assumed Gillian won't want Nancy in the group. I was being pushed to not like her before I "met" her, so her chapter was colored by that feeling.

[crazyakchick]

i really like this writing style, with the switching of characters and perspectives.  i enjoy being in each persons head rather than having one character tell the whole story.  it especially works in this book because of the writing circle itself.  i'd like to hear more from virginia, but only because she's been so quiet. 

nancy is feeling like the main character to me.  being new to the group, she's a great way to introduce the other characters, but a lot would be lost if the whole story was from her perspective. 

i took to nancy, but she sometimes frustrates me.  she cares too much what everyone else thinks of her.  i would have also been self-conscious being new in the writing circle, but when she had issues with chris's choice of a table because it was in front of a window?  and the window went all the way down to the floor so people could even see her feet?  yeah, that's right, everyone walking outside is looking at your feet!  please.  but i like her relationship with oates and i'm hoping she doesn't end up sleeping with chris - yeah, i got that impression.

i dislike gillian, but i'm pretty sure we're supposed to.  and while i understand it was more about the death than the mouse, her reaction to the dead mouse was a bit much.   and then she slept with adam...do you think she knew she would before he even got there?  i'm not a big fan of chris either.  i don't trust him and i think there must be more to why his ex-wife hates him.  gosh, i hope there's more.  otherwise, she's just nuts.  and i'm trying to figure out bernard's appeal to the women in the book.  

the chapter that suprised me most was paul's, only because it existed.  i had to think for a minute before i realized he's not actually part of the group. 

i'm enjoying the book, and i'm looking forward to seeing how the preface fits into the rest of the story.

[fmessick]

So far none of the characters seem to be a "main" character to me.  Each seems to have a stand alone story and the only connecting tie is the circle.  Well, other than the fact that two of them were previously married.  I do seem to like Bernard moreso than the others and find his story interesting.

Also as I mentioned in another thread, I'm having trouble keeping up with all of the stories.  Right now I almost feel as if I need a chart beside my nook with details of each person so that I'm not confusing characters or wondering why this person seems so familiar.