The Writing Circle: Middle Chapters (Through "Nancy")

[DSaff]

I really like this cast of characters even though I don't like all of them. There is the person you keep pulling for (Nancy), the one you love to hate (Gillian), and everything in between - something for everyone! It is always great when a book has me this involved in the lives of the characters. I keep hoping that Nancy will stay true to herself and her book no matter what. Actually, I want to know that all of them are successful with their writing. It isn't necessary to like an author in order to like their work. All of the homes seem to be welcoming, maybe a bit disheveled however, except for Gillian's (pretentious and perfect).

Paul is the one who most concerns me. His life is quickly becoming unmanageable, much of that because he wants to fit in. His move from his mother was probably some "stretching" but now he has learned there are dire consequences to his choice. He is being bullied at school but won't say that it is anything more than the desire to make friends. I hope his father wakes up and really talks to him, or that his mother gets involved somehow. This is a kid who should be saved.

[anne_dutch]

As a teacher, I find myself drawn to the storyline between Rachel and Paul- he is lost, confused, and definitely in need of something he's not getting. Jerry and Gillian are in their own world, well, Gillian is in her own world, and Jerry is trying very hard to be a part of it... and Paul is in the basement. His mother may be willing to have him, but she certainly does not seem to be fighting for him to come back home. I hope Rachel is his champion!

[fmessick]

The one character I had all wrong was Nancy.  I first read her as a young (early 20s) woman.  I didn't imagine that she had be married prior or even had a kid.

[roxikringle]

I'm trying to figure out why the point of the wedding. I don't see how it moves the story, or opens the characters. 

I see Paul going to his old house as a longing for his family life before the divorce. 

The book is interesting enough to keep me reading, if only to see what the important thing is. I've finally figured out how time is passing in this book and who is related to whom.

I kept expecting more and I read the home life as a background to the story, not essential to the character.

[Sunltcloud]

I agree with you here; the "lecture" Gillian gives Paul is rather vague as to where the limits are and what important role attribution plays when citing a source.And the lecture should be given by his father to begin with.

That Gillian speaks of "borrowing" from another writer I find troubling. I realize that there are only so many thoughts, themes, ideas, words, to go around; occasionally something sticks in one's mind and is in danger of being absorbed, but every effort has to be made to look at one's own work critically and with an eye toward plagiarism. It is better to be overly cautious than to be sloppy and ignore warning signals. Gillian, as a member of a writing group must have discussed this point with the others and must be clear about the fine line.  Yes, she as poet, might get her inspiration from an essay, a novel, a painting, a song, even another's poem, but she has to be watchful not to incorporate a line, a certain image. And certainly, her "borrowing" has nothing to do with Paul's "stealing" data from the internet. What she talks about is subject to interpretation, but to lift information without giving credit is plagiarism.

krb2g wrote in part:

I find this exchange troubling for a few reasons. First, I feel like Jerry should have been taking the lead here--it felt a little like he was passing the buck to Gillian. Second, Gillian makes it all about herself: the problem, in her eyes, is as much that the incident reflects poorly on her as anything. Finally, I worry about Gillian's ideas of what constitutes fair borrowing. In some senses, she's right. When I quote other authors, for example, in critical essays, I quote in order to make the work more clear, to show hidden connections, or to marshal evidence in support of my own arguments. I consider writing collaborative, essentially; for me, the difference between collaboration and plagiarism lies in attribution. But, when explaining to my classes what constitutes plagiarism, I would never leave it where Gillian does. She gives a good description of what a good quotation can do, but then she never says anything about attribution, citing, or credit. And while many works that I love are made better by allusions to what has been written before (just think of The Waste Land, for example), this passage makes me nervous.

[Adeline79]

There hasn't been any major surprises. It was pretty easy to tell that Gillian was going to be the nasty character.

I did notice that the various homes were described in a fair bit of detail considering the overall length of the book. I found it really easy to imaging the houses, so the descriptions must have been really good.

Paul is obviously really unsettled. It is a tough age in general and with his parents split up it makes it even harder to discover his place in the world. By walking back to his old home he is kind of yearning for those times when life was less complicated for him. I feel a lot of sympathy for Paul.

[bettymac]

I agree with the criticism of the actually reading of parts of their books and then having the group critique. I think I wouldn't have minded it if the "read" parts have been italicized or set off in some way instead of just having them in with the "story" with no separation.  I had to pause a moment to figure out where the "reading" began and ended. I really think that should be corrected before the book is actually released.I suppose we do need to know how they help each other and interact but it needs to be handled better.

[maxcat]

Sunltcloud, I suppose you are right in that Gillian is "borrowing" ideas from phrases, etc. She is just conniving enough to do that. It's just shy of plagiarism but if someone were to question a part, it would certainly ruin one's character.

[jillian_lee]

I think one of the reasons I've struggled getting connected to the characters is because I read to the suggested stopping point, pick up another book, and then re-start where I left off after a while. I'm just going to read through the book now and make sure my comments only reflect the chapters we've been "assigned." 

I'm intrigued by Paul. I work with high school students for my job and I see so many of my students in him, but I don't think we know the whole story yet. He's clearly not in the popular crowd, but I feel like his decision to write the paper for Thayer has another level to it.

I'm super annoyed by Gillian. Her glitz and pompous attitude have a place in the book (and the Leopardi), but her lavish home and parties (and husband) annoy me. I'm sure it's because I feel like she is the character I can least identify with! I don't understand her relationship with poor Adam...just let the little puppy go be with Kim. Darn cougars...

I'm enjoying the book so far, but I do feel like in order to give it a fair shot, I can't stop anymore to stay on track with the book club calendar, so I'm motoring through the rest! No spoilers, I promise!

j.

[nymazz]

We've seen the homes of most of our characters: How to they reflect the characters themselves, their lifestyles, their personalities, their desires?

I think Gillians house reflected her personality perfectly: Fake

Who has most surprised you in these chapters? Are there characters you were entirely wrong about? Who did you have pegged from first introduction?

I think Bernard was most surprising to me.  He came off as an insensitive jerk at Thanksgiving. That was not the time or place for that announcement. If he truly cared about his kids feelings he would have spoken with each of them privately especially since his relationship with his son was already strained.

Why does Paul walk all the way to his old house after talking with Rachel at The Academy? How does Paul fit in at school? How do you judge his actions?

I think he feels a sense of peace when he sees his old house.  He remembers when he was happier and truly felt like part of family. His father is very hard on him, but the sad thing is Paul knows its not because his father wants him to succeed in general but because his father knows it will make Gillian happy and won't make her look bad because she was the reason Paul got into the private school in the first place.  

[JuneC]

No Spoilers here but I have finished the book and I'm sorry to say it  left me cold from early on. Aside from the young and confused Paul, none of the characters managed to stir my emotions very much. (He does so simply because I work with kids like him daily.)

Some of the characters are self-absorbed,others like jelly fish, all to me are dull. Their individual "crisis" seem trival in the scope of things.The one hope I had was with Virginia and that never came to fruition for me.

I will hold further comments until the end of the discussion session so as not to ruin any part for anyone.

[JuneC]

Two well made points.

I agree, Bernard was insensitive and could have choosen a more appropriate time.

Secondly your remark about Paul's father

"Paul knows its not because his father wants him to succeed in general but because his father knows it will make Gillian happy ...."

[nfam]

I have to agree. The characters seemed trivial. Perhaps that's because I've been out of the university environment for awhile. However, I do recall several people from that time period who could have been mistaken for these characters. 

I've also finished the book and found the ending disappointing. It wasn't surprising, certainly the author laid the foundation, but it did nothing to elucidate the characters and make reading about them a worthwhile experience.

Sorry to be negative, but the book was disappointing. 

[Cleos_Mum]

Cycling_Chef wrote:

The middle section of this book dragged a bit for me. I found the stories about the secondary characters were not as interesting as the primary characters and made this many-charactered novel a bit harder to follow. I did not like the part of Adam's reading of his novel and then the critique by the writing circle. Adam's novel excerpt was too long for me. I did not want to invest energy getting my head around characters of his novel, too. Once I got past the assigned reading section the story picked up and I was eager to finish the novel to find out how it ends.

This has been a problem for me throughout the book to this point. At times it seems that minute details are described in extreme detail, while characters (both primary and secondary) and plot development are skimmed over. 

Overall, I am enjoying the book and the story line. I enjoy the characters and the interaction (or lack thereof) between them. I like Virginia - she seems to be the peace-keeper. Gillian is the self-absorbed egomaniac - she is easy to dislike. Nancy is down-to-earth but a little self-conscious. 

The character I feel the most for. This poor boy is lost and just trying to fit in somewhere. The walk back to his old house was a sad trip back to when he used to be happy and life was good for him.

I would just like to see some focus in the upcoming chapters - instead of widening the view, narrowing the focus back down to the primary characters.

[sgreen]

We've seen the homes of most of our characters: How to they reflect the characters themselves, their lifestyles, their personalities, their desires?

I haven’t been relating the homes to the characters…or even really thinking about how their homes are a reflection of each.  Nancy’s home with Oates appears warm and inviting.  Bernard and Aimee’s home mirror how Aimee is a driving force to change who Bernard is and was prior to their marriage.  I don’t recall descriptions of Adam or Chris’s living spaces.  Gillian actually has two homes, if you count Buttons.  I think Buttons is more of who Gillian is deep down inside, whereas her home with Paul and his father is a reflection of her concerns with what everyone thinks of her…appearances matter to Gillian, however, substance not so much.

Who has most surprised you in these chapters? Are there characters you were entirely wrong about? Who did you have pegged from first introduction?

I enjoyed getting to know Rachel/Peachie and Paul more in these middle chapters.  I disliked Aimee even more after the party scene at Gillian’s house…she is trying, in vain, to make Bernard someone who he isn’t.  Something off topic that bothered me…why wasn’t Gillian wearing shoes at her holiday party?  The scene mentioned her being barefoot, but the detailed description of her attire didn’t mention this detail and I thought it was strange.  I like Chris more and more as we go, but I definitely dislike Gillian and Bernard after this section.  I ached for Rachel after the Thanksgiving fiasco…Bernard is so pompous and full of himself!!

Why does Paul walk all the way to his old house after talking with Rachel at The Academy? How does Paul fit in at school? How do you judge his actions?

I think Paul walked to his old house after his conversation with Rachel because he was trying to recapture a happier time of his life, where he felt like he did belong.  His childhood and the old house represent a time when his parents still loved each other and his family was “complete” in his mind.  He didn’t have to make such an effort to kindle friendships and felt more confident in himself.  I don’t think Paul fits in at his school.  I think he’s trying so hard to win friends that he’s lost the essence of who he really is and what he believes in.  I wonder if, subconsciously, his plagiarism was actually a cry for help…for someone to notice him and care about him and what he was doing.  His father doesn’t seem to pay him much attention, and neither does Gillian, for that matter.  

[bdrdunc]

I too have finished the book and I won't spill anything to spoil it for others, but I did not feel the book left me feeling "cold".  I found it interesting and I could relate to the characters.  They seem to be a lot like everyday people with dramas in their lives.  We all have people in our lives that are self absorbed and others like jelly fish.  At the end of each character's chapter I was left wanting more.  I guess we all have different reading tastes. 

[maxcat]

I have to agree with Jim. I finished the book also and will relate more tomorrow. But the book left me deflated and I'm glad to be done with it. I'm sure the author had a great idea going within the book and maybe I just missed something.

[Vermontcozy]

bdrdunc wrote:

I too have finished the book and I won't spill anything to spoil it for others, but I did not feel the book left me feeling "cold".  I found it interesting and I could relate to the characters.  They seem to be a lot like everyday people with dramas in their lives.  We all have people in our lives that are self absorbed and others like jelly fish.  At the end of each character's chapter I was left wanting more.  I guess we all have different reading tastes. 

bdrdunc   As i wander around TWC and just briefly read some posts,yours is closest to my feeling about TWC.Now thats today,I am sure I will add some more tomorrow when I collect more thoughts.,,What a Group,and yes it did seem very realistic to me,sadly,but true,and wanting more as well...,,Susan Vtc

[retromom]

 So far these characters don't do much for me. I dislike quite a few of them and the rest I don't really care about at this point. There seems to be so much going on that at this point I'm not sure what the plot is. I'm hoping that at some point in the book it will all make sense to me and come together.

[Vermontcozy]

---

retromom wrote:

 So far these characters don't do much for me. I dislike quite a few of them and the rest I don't really care about at this point. There seems to be so much going on that at this point I'm not sure what the plot is. I'm hoping that at some point in the book it will all make sense to me and come together.

---

Dear Beth,..It does come together..  Just let us know what you think after or whenever you post,how you feel/felt about  TWC..Thanks ,Susan ..I'm just a curious person..:  )