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fordmg
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Re: Arresting the Police


camibones wrote:

 

I was satisfied with the conclusion. It was great to read about the officials being arrested, because quite honestly, I didn't expect that. I guess Sweden works a little different from the US - I can't see something like this actually managing to stick.
I really think the only place that the line was crossed was when it was decided that Piet would be burned and left to die. I don't see any problem with using informers and plants in order to get valuable information that can stop larger crimes. I don't have a problem with trading the death of one infiltrator for stopping the infiltration of a syndicate into the prison system. I would say that the authors of the book think otherwise. Certainly, Grens finds the whole idea abhorrent. Although I did find it interesting that Grens was willing to let Piet go even though he realized at the end that he had managed to escape. I guess all the pain and suffering he had undergone was payment enough for his sins.

 


Not only did Grens let Piet go after he relaized that he was still alive, but the prison guard that Piet punched out let him go as well.  I still believe that the police authorities were in on the drug business at the prison.  That is why Piet left the message for Wilson, "mission accomplished".  Everyone taken out.

MG

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Lis49
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Re: Arresting the Police

     The officials were the villains because they agreed to uphold the laws of the land and they made a conscience effort to not do that.  They crossed the line when they changed records, lied, decided to not to follow procedures and abandoned Piet.
     The twist at the end of the story was great when Piet contacts Erik and says that he is ready to go undercover again.  I did not expect that.  Erik would say that the future in solving problems such as the mob in prisons is to have undercover agents.  The end justifys the means.  Grens would say that one must not give up their honor when pursuing criminals.  How can police function in their colleagues lie to them? I don't think that this makes Grens naive.  It sounds like European attitudes are becoming more like American attitudes and I do not think that is a good thing.  Part of the problem with the American system is that we have too many loopholes and do overs.     
 
Lis49
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Peppermill
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Re: Arresting the Police

 


Lis49 wrote:
     The officials were the villains because they agreed to uphold the laws of the land and they made a conscience effort to not do that.  They crossed the line when they changed records, lied, decided to not to follow procedures and abandoned Piet.
     The twist at the end of the story was great when Piet contacts Erik and says that he is ready to go undercover again.  I did not expect that.  Erik would say that the future in solving problems such as the mob in prisons is to have undercover agents.  The end justifys the means.  Grens would say that one must not give up their honor when pursuing criminals.  How can police function in their colleagues lie to them? I don't think that this makes Grens naive.  It sounds like European attitudes are becoming more like American attitudes and I do not think that is a good thing.  Part of the problem with the American system is that we have too many loopholes and do overs.     
 

The twist at the end of the story was great when Piet contacts Erik and says that he is ready to go undercover again.

 

 

Is that the meaning you give to: "See you in an hour at number three."  p. 485

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Peppermill
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Re: Arresting the Police

[ Edited ]

 


fordmg wrote:

camibones wrote:

 

I was satisfied with the conclusion. It was great to read about the officials being arrested, because quite honestly, I didn't expect that. I guess Sweden works a little different from the US - I can't see something like this actually managing to stick.
I really think the only place that the line was crossed was when it was decided that Piet would be burned and left to die. I don't see any problem with using informers and plants in order to get valuable information that can stop larger crimes. I don't have a problem with trading the death of one infiltrator for stopping the infiltration of a syndicate into the prison system. I would say that the authors of the book think otherwise. Certainly, Grens finds the whole idea abhorrent. Although I did find it interesting that Grens was willing to let Piet go even though he realized at the end that he had managed to escape. I guess all the pain and suffering he had undergone was payment enough for his sins.

 


Not only did Grens let Piet go after he realized that he was still alive, but the prison guard that Piet punched out let him go as well.  I still believe that the police authorities were in on the drug business at the prison.  That is why Piet left the message for Wilson, "mission accomplished".  Everyone taken out.

MG


MG -- Please elaborate.  I don't understand the significance of the textual evidence you cite.  Is there other as well?

 

 

(Given the yellow tulips in the prison governor's (Lennart Oscarsson) office (p. 238), I wondered.  But, later, he seems "clean.")

 

I don't quite understand why the National Police Commissioner became so concerned about Grens questioning Hoffmann at the prison, except possibly to him it implied Grens had connected Hoffman with Paula.  Why would he expect Piet to blow his cover to Grens?  Or did he (Pal Larsen) just not trust because he had been coerced into creating a cover for Piet by the State Secretary.  (p. 128ff.)

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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fordmg
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Re: Arresting the Police


Peppermill wrote:

 



Not only did Grens let Piet go after he realized that he was still alive, but the prison guard that Piet punched out let him go as well.  I still believe that the police authorities were in on the drug business at the prison.  That is why Piet left the message for Wilson, "mission accomplished".  Everyone taken out.

MG


MG -- Please elaborate.  I don't understand the significance of the textual evidence you cite.  Is there other as well?

 

 

(Given the yellow tulips in the prison governor's (Lennart Oscarsson) office (p. 238), I wondered.  But, later, he seems "clean.")

 

I don't quite understand why the National Police Commissioner became so concerned about Grens questioning Hoffmann at the prison, except possibly to him it implied Grens had connected Hoffman with Paula.  Why would he expect Piet to blow his cover to Grens?  Or did he (Pal Larsen) just not trust because he had been coerced into creating a cover for Piet by the State Secretary.  (p. 128ff.)


I don't have my book with me right now, but my interpretation comes from this: 
The prison governor - Lennart Oscarsson is not in on it. 

Piet tapes his conversation with Police Comm, et al, knowing ahead of time that he will send all this info to Grens.  When Grens finally get the heads of to Piet, and wants to interview him, these people band to gether to do everything to make sure that Grens does not have the conversation.  They know that Grens will figure it out eventually.  I think all along that Piet was going to get burned.  That is why Wilson kept asking him if he wanted to abort.  Over and over Peit kept saying he was on his own....thus all the meticulus detail ahead of time.  I just don't think he realized that it would come so soon.  Grens finding the descrepancy in Piet's back ground - ie: he was a criminal with a legal gun - they needed to hid this.  What they (police) wanted was for Piet to get rid of the Polish gang, not to get rid of their inside people.  They (police) asked how Piet was going to get the drugs into prison, and all he would divulge is  "tulips and poetry".  they wanted specifics so they could intercept, but Piet wouldn't tell. 

The story if full of this detail.  That is why I think the police were controling the dope.

Oh, and remember, Wilson bought some dope himself from Piet before he went in.  I think that this was for the police.  So........Wilson knew they were dirty and wanted Piet to get to them, but didn't know how he would do it.

 

I know this is long, but that is how I read the story.

 

MG

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CAG
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Re: Arresting the Police

 


kboston wrote:

It's an interesting conclusion to the story.  Three high ranking officials that get arrested for hiding details in over 300 investigations that were either convicted incorrectly or thrown out of court because of insufficient evidence, when the police had the evidence all along.  The police crossed the line in the story when they decided to burn their informant, because they thought he would spill information about the recent murder they were covering up to catch the polish mafia.

Yes, it's necessary that police work involves criminals, because it gives the organizations insight they wouldn't have if there weren't informants. 


I think you are right. It is interesting and the police did cross the line and they burned Piet because they had so much to hide. I also agree that the police use informants because the informants have insight into the organizations they couldn't possibly get any other way.

 

CAG