Improper use of Library Materials and other Details

[DSaff]

Thanks for the laugh! I love my Nook and the "drugs" hidden in mine are books! 

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Sanderson1216 wrote:

The improper use of library materials justifies the use of more ebooks!  )  Although I guess someone would learn to hide drugs in a Nook. 

Seriously, I found some of the descriptions distrubing, but at the same time, it was interesting. 

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[BookWoman718]

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tamarindo wrote:

. 

I'd seen hollowed-out books being used to conceal revolvers before in the movies, but still - reading about the meticulous process Piet had to follow in order for it to be a success was fascinating.  I still can't believe that those altered books weren't discovered by the inspecting guards, especially after shaking the books by the spine!

When I was reading about Piet preparing the books, I had the impression he removed the spines, and carved his hidey-hole through the glued pages in the back,   And it was a long, very thin compartment - I seem to recall it was maybe 13 centimeters long and one centimeter deep?  I was trying to picture it.  Tha would be something like six inches long and half an inch deep, and he had glued all the sides to they would hold.  A visual inspection (as differentiated from an X-ray) would require the inspector to bend the spine backwards to see that some of the pages were not fully loose.  I can see how that might well be missed

This could be really useful information if only my husband had believed that whole "diamonds are a girl's best friend" and I had something small and valuable to hide.... 

[LadyMin]

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Sadie1 wrote:

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Rachel-K wrote:

Did you find any of the novel's details to be particularly disturbing or surprising? I don't want to think of Three Seconds as a useful instruction manual to a life of crime, but I was tremendously impressed by the ingeniously practical aspects of drug trade that I never would have thought of!

Another lighter question about the details of the novel: How do you find the details of ordinary life differ across an ocean? Are there things about daily life described in Stockholm that surprise you by their similarly or difference? What people eat for breakfast or the boy's nursery school?

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I didn't find any of the details to be an instruction manual.  These idea's have been used for a long time in the drug trade.  They are really being used today even in the state's and I have known of them since the 70's.

Here in the states, the mule usually has a bowel movement to get the swallowed drugs out.  They aren't beaten and made to throw them up.  This was new to me.

Also, many parents here in the states used to give their children paragoric to make them sleep.  This is why paragoric is no longer regularly available to parents from pediatricians.

Drug addicts and criminals don't actually see the harm they bring to all around them. 

This book is chocked full of real life in the crime/drug trade.

Lisa in Georgia

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I never heard of paragoric before but I have heard of people giving their children Benadryl to get them to sleep.

Once I realized what Calpol was I was surprised Piet would do that to his children. But when I thought about it, it made sense that he would since we already knew he was not going to back out of his mission for any reason. This tells me he is not as 'good' as person as we are initially led to believe.

~Leslie

[tmcb]

I was actually impressed with the whole "improper use of library books" part of the story. It is amazing what criminals (or non-criminals) will think of to futher their own plans. The part of the story that deals with Piet preparing things on the outside for his time on the inside remined me of a tv show that aired just recently in past few years called Prison Break, where the main character planned on the outside for his entry into the Prison to break out his brother. I love the deception!!  Part of the book I found distrubing is the mules throwing up the drugs...and also the hiding of the drugs in the ubend of the toilet.

[rosia408]

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Rachel-K wrote:

Thought we could use a  slightly lighter thread for such an intense novel! I am struck by the level of detail we get about the nitty-gritty of the drug trade, from the bodily hiding of drugs and microphones to the use of tulips and (gasp) cutting up dusty book of poetry from the library!

Did you find any of the novel's details to be particularly disturbing or surprising? I don't want to think of Three Seconds as a useful instruction manual to a life of crime, but I was tremendously impressed by the ingeniously practical aspects of drug trade that I never would have thought of!

Another lighter question about the details of the novel: How do you find the details of ordinary life differ across an ocean? Are there things about daily life described in Stockholm that surprise you by their similarly or difference? What people eat for breakfast or the boy's nursery school?

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In reaading how Piet was getting ready for his arrest, he shows himself to be very competent in covering for himself and trusting in no one. In reading about the details of how he hid the microphone, hid his own phone in the cemetary, knew how to hide the drugs in the tulips, and how to hide drugs and the mini gun and explosives in those poetry books, the authors show that Piet is no amateur. He is quite adept at what he is doing. It would seem too that he has some kind of plan up his sleeve to escape should he be "burned" by the police. He trusts no one but himself.

As far as ordinary daily life in the US as compared to Stockholm, some of it is very similar, having cinamom rolls and coffee for breakfast. Lots of coffee in the office. I was appalled when Piet gave his children Calpol to bring their fever down so he could take them out or send them to school so he could continue working. I haven't looked Calpol up, but I am assuming it is similar to Tylenol to reduce fevers.

I cringed when I read about the destruction of the books. I hope there are no kids who get their hands on this book and try this out!

Rose

[tmcb]

I always thought of my nook as "crack" as much as I am addicted to it! You all made me laugh with these posts!

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DSaff wrote:

Thanks for the laugh! I love my Nook and the "drugs" hidden in mine are books! 

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Sanderson1216 wrote:

The improper use of library materials justifies the use of more ebooks!  )  Although I guess someone would learn to hide drugs in a Nook. 

Seriously, I found some of the descriptions distrubing, but at the same time, it was interesting. 

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[Peppermill]

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BookWoman718 wrote:

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And I confess to a guilty blush when they describe dropping sick but medicated kids off at daycare. Nothing to be proud of, but in desperate situations I might have indulged in something similar....Life may be different abroad, but people are people....

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In this age of comparing "parenting skills" more viciously than paychecks or dinner party successes, I take my hat off to your honesty!   Who ever dares to admit anymore that they have acted in any other but a completely self-sacrificing manner?   I think if you talk to any daycare workers, or kindergarten teachers, though, you would find you (if indeed you actually DID the dastardly deed) were hardly alone.   Personally, since Piet is in a life or death situation, needing to complete preparations that only he can do, I think we have to cut him a little slack.  Would his kids really be better off if he sat at bedside with them, and then ended up dead?  Or think of it this way,  you live on a barrier island, and a hurricane is coming.  Your child is sick.  Do you stay by his side, or do you bundle him in the car, make your way to someplace inland, and put up the hurricane shutters? 

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I used to say that it took 4-5 deep to cover for every eventuality (nanny sick or otherwise absent, 2nd tier caregiver unavailable, 3rd tier caregiver has sick children, then it was time for that fourth or fifth level coverage).  I did all this at the leading edge of women in the work force in large numbers, but fortunately both my husband and I had professional jobs and more flexibility than many. Still, we had only one child.  As Hillary says, it does take a village to raise children.

I'm not certain I'd make the judgment implied in "dastardly deed."  Certainly other children deserve not to be carelessly exposed to sicknesses.  Certainly children need to be protected from dangerous situations, physical or otherwise.  But, most of all, they simply need to be protected, however that shows up.  Just mho.

[silverwitch]

I have to admit that this book is very disturbing to me. I am not really happy with it at all. Being a mother and grandmother also I am a EMT paramedic this really disturbs me. I am having a really hard time with it only because of ,y profession and I am not at all amazed as to how drugs are hidden. I see it alot in my line of work and yes it does turn me right off especially reading it.

How a parent can go and dish out medication to a child for their own agenda and what suits their purpose is down right child abuse in my mind.

Sorry to be so frank. Also destroyong library books just so they can transport book is a crime also.

OK I am off my soapbox. This book has infact been a real eye opener for me as to how the rest of the world deals with this sort of stuff.

[thewanderingjew]

What most surprises me about this discussion is how times have changed from the days I raised my family. I worked also, at one time, but when my daughter got sick, I left work and came home to take care of her. There was no other option to consider. It never entered my mind, truthfully. I somehow managed to do my work at home. My employer knew my kids came first. It was an acceptable idea. I only took a job that allowed me to be home when they came home. It wasn't even a consideration to do anything else. I had no one else to rely on but me. We lived far from family and my husband commuted to work, at least 1 1/2 hours, each way, everyday. My money was needed to pay our bills so not working was also not an option, at that time. When we ran short of money, we all did without. It was just the way it was then.

Times just seem to have become more difficult today, Perhaps there are more things that are perceived as necessary than were in my day. A family could exist with one working parent if they were carfeful. We only had one car. We lived way out of town to be able to afford a home. We shopped carefully because we didn't have many credit cards. We had to live more within our means, I guess. I don't think we expected as much from life or maybe we didn't think we could have any more than we did. I really don't know, truthfully.

I think I am just surprised that it has become somewhat acceptable to treat children in this way. Maybe working moms have had to make many more concessions than I did. My generation,  consisted of mostly stay at home moms and that may be a big part of the difference in needs and behavior,

I suppose if it is okay for someone to be honest and say that they have had to do things, regarding their kids, that they really would have preferred not to, like take them to school sick or give them extra meds to hasten their getting well, then I can voice my opinion on that subject too. I think that sending a sick child to school is really not something i can agree with because you endanger other children when you do that. You kick the can down the road to another parent possibly having to contend with a sick child, too, after having been exposed to yours. It sends the messsage that your needs are more important than theirs. I think it would be better if you took the child to work with you, instead, as Piet did. Then the only one to suffer is yourself.

I apologize if I offended anyone with my remarks, I am not judging anyone, just givng voice to my own thoughts on the subject. In the end, we all need to do what we have to do to survive and if we bend the rules sometimes, so be it..

[Peppermill]

My mother was a teacher who never worked outside of the family homes after marriage until she was in her late fifties and her children were independent.  Yet, sniffles were seldom a reason for us to be permitted to miss school.  (And taking drugs, other than using Vicks or taking cough syrup, was unheard of.)

Given my own experiences in the workplace (including long hours and travel), it sometimes astonishes me to what extent many of today's workers expect accommodations, even though fortunately computers and networking have made teleworking feasible for many jobs.  On the other hand, it also astonishes me how little progress has been made in integrating and facilitating work and family responsibilities, even with substantial numbers of notable exceptions.

[thewanderingjew]

You are absolutely right. Sniffles were not an excuse to miss school. When I was young and when my children were young, we brought a handkerchief or tissues to school in case we needed to use them. I guess we were taught to cover our mouths when we coughed or sneezed. Fever was another story, though. We didn't go to school with a fever. I thought that parents today were encouraged to keep their kids home until they had a normal temp for 24 hours. I think that is the general rule in the school my grandkids attend.

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Peppermill wrote:

My mother was a teacher who never worked outside of the family homes after marriage until she was in her late fifties and her children were independent.  Yet, sniffles were seldom a reason for us to be permitted to miss school.  (And taking drugs, other than using Vicks or taking cough syrup, was unheard of.)

Given my own experiences in the workplace (including long hours and travel), it sometimes astonishes me to what extent many of today's workers expect accommodations, even though fortunately computers and networking have made teleworking feasible for many jobs.  On the other hand, it also astonishes me how little progress has been made in integrating and facilitating work and family responsibilities, even with substantial numbers of notable exceptions.

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[elaine_hf]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

You are absolutely right. Sniffles were not an excuse to miss school. When I was young and when my children were young, we brought a handkerchief or tissues to school in case we needed to use them. I guess we were taught to cover our mouths when we coughed or sneezed. Fever was another story, though. We didn't go to school with a fever. I thought that parents today were encouraged to keep their kids home until they had a normal temp for 24 hours. I think that is the general rule in the school my grandkids attend.

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Peppermill wrote:

My mother was a teacher who never worked outside of the family homes after marriage until she was in her late fifties and her children were independent.  Yet, sniffles were seldom a reason for us to be permitted to miss school.  (And taking drugs, other than using Vicks or taking cough syrup, was unheard of.)

Given my own experiences in the workplace (including long hours and travel), it sometimes astonishes me to what extent many of today's workers expect accommodations, even though fortunately computers and networking have made teleworking feasible for many jobs.  On the other hand, it also astonishes me how little progress has been made in integrating and facilitating work and family responsibilities, even with substantial numbers of notable exceptions.

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 Well, this discussion could go on ad infinitum, and we wouldn't be any closer to agreement than we apparently are now. Suffice it to say that I don't think anyone in the discussion is advocating that sick children should regularly be sent to daycare/school, but I also think that the pressures of the modern day working world, especially right now where many job situations are 'fragile' at best, compel many people to do things that they might not otherwise do, and judgment should be suspended. And I see that same duel going on in Piet's head - he knows his children are sick, he knows they need to be in bed, but he also knows that his life depends on his completing certain tasks. People around the world may have different cultures and different ways of life, but we have some commonalities as well, and internal conflicts regarding parenting and child raising are just a few examples.

I am guessing that most of us aren't in a life-or-death situation on a daily basis at our jobs, but the same kinds of pressures and concerns face us all. Sorry if my comments led us astray and off-topic...let's get back to the book!!   

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[DSaff]

i agree with you. We all have choices in the things we do, and I chose to have my two sons. With that came the responsibility of caring for them. If they were sick, one of us stayed home with them. The biggest thing for them was that if they were sick enough to stay home, they were sick enough to stay inside away from friends and video games.  I always hated it when parents would medicate their sick kids and send them to school as Piet did here. Why hurt the children so much???

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thewanderingjew wrote:

What most surprises me about this discussion is how times have changed from the days I raised my family. I worked also, at one time, but when my daughter got sick, I left work and came home to take care of her. There was no other option to consider. It never entered my mind, truthfully. I somehow managed to do my work at home. My employer knew my kids came first. It was an acceptable idea. I only took a job that allowed me to be home when they came home. It wasn't even a consideration to do anything else. I had no one else to rely on but me. We lived far from family and my husband commuted to work, at least 1 1/2 hours, each way, everyday. My money was needed to pay our bills so not working was also not an option, at that time. When we ran short of money, we all did without. It was just the way it was then.

Times just seem to have become more difficult today, Perhaps there are more things that are perceived as necessary than were in my day. A family could exist with one working parent if they were carfeful. We only had one car. We lived way out of town to be able to afford a home. We shopped carefully because we didn't have many credit cards. We had to live more within our means, I guess. I don't think we expected as much from life or maybe we didn't think we could have any more than we did. I really don't know, truthfully.

I think I am just surprised that it has become somewhat acceptable to treat children in this way. Maybe working moms have had to make many more concessions than I did. My generation,  consisted of mostly stay at home moms and that may be a big part of the difference in needs and behavior,

I suppose if it is okay for someone to be honest and say that they have had to do things, regarding their kids, that they really would have preferred not to, like take them to school sick or give them extra meds to hasten their getting well, then I can voice my opinion on that subject too. I think that sending a sick child to school is really not something i can agree with because you endanger other children when you do that. You kick the can down the road to another parent possibly having to contend with a sick child, too, after having been exposed to yours. It sends the messsage that your needs are more important than theirs. I think it would be better if you took the child to work with you, instead, as Piet did. Then the only one to suffer is yourself.

I apologize if I offended anyone with my remarks, I am not judging anyone, just givng voice to my own thoughts on the subject. In the end, we all need to do what we have to do to survive and if we bend the rules sometimes, so be it..

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[Deltadawn]

Well said, Lisa!

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Did you find any of the novel's details to be particularly disturbing or surprising? I don't want to think of Three Seconds as a useful instruction manual to a life of crime, but I was tremendously impressed by the ingeniously practical aspects of drug trade that I never would have thought of!

Another lighter question about the details of the novel: How do you find the details of ordinary life differ across an ocean? Are there things about daily life described in Stockholm that surprise you by their similarly or difference? What people eat for breakfast or the boy's nursery school?

---

I didn't find any of the details to be an instruction manual.  These idea's have been used for a long time in the drug trade.  They are really being used today even in the state's and I have known of them since the 70's.

Here in the states, the mule usually has a bowel movement to get the swallowed drugs out.  They aren't beaten and made to throw them up.  This was new to me.

Also, many parents here in the states used to give their children paragoric to make them sleep.  This is why paragoric is no longer regularly available to parents from pediatricians.

Drug addicts and criminals don't actually see the harm they bring to all around them. 

This book is chocked full of real life in the crime/drug trade.

Lisa in Georgia

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[Deltadawn]

Very true - I thought about that as well.

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lisapt wrote:
I'm amazed at the company of Piet in all that it does. It raised the tension too, because I keep thinking of how easy it would be for just one part to fall apart. What if, for example, the librarian riffles through the pages of the books before putting them back in storage? Or wonders at the request from the prison being the same as the man who came in recently?

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[Vermontcozy]

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elaine_hf wrote:

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thewanderingjew wrote:

You are absolutely right. Sniffles were not an excuse to miss school. When I was young and when my children were young, we brought a handkerchief or tissues to school in case we needed to use them. I guess we were taught to cover our mouths when we coughed or sneezed. Fever was another story, though. We didn't go to school with a fever. I thought that parents today were encouraged to keep their kids home until they had a normal temp for 24 hours. I think that is the general rule in the school my grandkids attend.

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Peppermill wrote:

My mother was a teacher who never worked outside of the family homes after marriage until she was in her late fifties and her children were independent.  Yet, sniffles were seldom a reason for us to be permitted to miss school.  (And taking drugs, other than using Vicks or taking cough syrup, was unheard of.)

Given my own experiences in the workplace (including long hours and travel), it sometimes astonishes me to what extent many of today's workers expect accommodations, even though fortunately computers and networking have made teleworking feasible for many jobs.  On the other hand, it also astonishes me how little progress has been made in integrating and facilitating work and family responsibilities, even with substantial numbers of notable exceptions.

---

 Well, this discussion could go on ad infinitum, and we wouldn't be any closer to agreement than we apparently are now. Suffice it to say that I don't think anyone in the discussion is advocating that sick children should regularly be sent to daycare/school, but I also think that the pressures of the modern day working world, especially right now where many job situations are 'fragile' at best, compel many people to do things that they might not otherwise do, and judgment should be suspended. And I see that same duel going on in Piet's head - he knows his children are sick, he knows they need to be in bed, but he also knows that his life depends on his completing certain tasks. People around the world may have different cultures and different ways of life, but we have some commonalities as well, and internal conflicts regarding parenting and child raising are just a few examples.

I am guessing that most of us aren't in a life-or-death situation on a daily basis at our jobs, but the same kinds of pressures and concerns face us all. Sorry if my comments led us astray and off-topic...let's get back to the book!!   

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I was a stay at home Mom  for the first five years of my Daughters life..Between  Nursery school and then starting Kindergarten.Understandably..some Parents were in a difficult situation having a sick child etc..But there is IMHO so much judging going on here and since "Three Seconds" is what we are here for,I find it very disturbing..We have a "Community Room" to vent and discuss anything!!! Lets keep these Threads what they are intended for...It could pose a problem for our FirstLookers if all this judging continues.I also find it self serving and ,mostly we are not concerned with anyones Parenting Skills. Thats another Book.altogether....I must Agree with Pepper..Lets get on with the Book...Susan

[Deltadawn]

Hmmm....

Maybe I should break down and get a Nook so I can read ebooks?

[Deltadawn]

I agree, Piet's preparations were impressive - though a bit scary!

I found those things extremely disturbing, too (the mules throwing up the drugs, and hiding the drugs in the ubend of the toilet). I think it is probably very realistic.

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tmcb wrote:

I was actually impressed with the whole "improper use of library books" part of the story. It is amazing what criminals (or non-criminals) will think of to futher their own plans. The part of the story that deals with Piet preparing things on the outside for his time on the inside remined me of a tv show that aired just recently in past few years called Prison Break, where the main character planned on the outside for his entry into the Prison to break out his brother. I love the deception!!  Part of the book I found distrubing is the mules throwing up the drugs...and also the hiding of the drugs in the ubend of the toilet.

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[thewanderingjew]

I hope no one took any of the remarks about how Piet parented his children, personally. Our comments are inspired by the characters in the book and are not about the people posting. We all live our lives as best we can. Our comments are opinions and not judgments about right and wrong for anyone but ourselves.

[Peppermill]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

I hope no one took any of the remarks about how Piet parented his children, personally. Our comments are inspired by the characters in the book and are not about the people posting. We all live our lives as best we can. Our comments are opinions and not judgments about right and wrong for anyone but ourselves.

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TWJ -- it seems to me that we have touched the power of fiction to elucidate things that matter, in our own lives, in our larger communities.

I like to think I understand the "heart" that led you to this post and I respect it and the caring of this community that you express.   However, I also like to believe that at least most of us are tough enough to participate in the thrust and parry and to emerge with a bigger and deeper picture of the story, each other, and our world.  But thanks for asking us to pause and consider.

Pepper