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Wordsmith
BookWoman718
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One


MSaff wrote:

  I am personally suspending judgment on all characters so far.  I don't trust any of them, and until they can prove their worth, I think that they are all bad guys.  I will respectfully say that they may be playing the bad guy part very well in order to get deeper infiltration into the Mafia and the Drug Trade, but I don't know that I could pull that type of cover off. 

 

 

Amen to that, MSaff!   The movies that most tie me in knots are the ones with characters going undercover into very dangerous and violent situations.   I guess I think of myself as a very 'direct' sort of person and I'm not at all sure I could manage to lie convincingly to people I have to pretend to be in agreement with.

Wordsmith
BookWoman718
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One


elaine_hf wrote:

 

 I think Erik is the least trustworthy of the bunch. He's involved in some way in military/spy training, then he appears as Piet's attorney, if I'm not mistaken - what exactly is he?? And who's side is he on?? We think it's Piet's, but can we be certain at this point? He's all in favor of Piet serving time and setting up the drug connections in prison, I have a hard time believing that he's so altruistic.

 


Erik is a policeman and he is also Piet's 'handler' - not his attorney.  He speaks on behalf of Piet to the govt officials because as a police detective they will look to him to provide the rationale;  they trust him as they could not trust Piet.   So far his actions lead us to believe he is a 'good guy' if you want to look at the surface.  He is handling Piet in the line of duty - to root out and contain the expansion of the Polish mafia into prisons.  Everything he has done seems to be in furtherance of that goal, and he has acted skillfully to both check out Piet's story of the murder and to set up the one they will use to place Piet in prison.  I don't see his working with Piet as 'altruistic' - it's his job.  He recruited Piet in order to use him to 'get inside' the Polish mafia.  They both understand that.  It's not a friendship.  It's a working relationship and so far there's no indication that Piet was coerced into it.  He, too, wants to get the job done.  If they are successful, the main payoff will be psychic;  the excitement of winning a tough battle.  The job promotion for Erik that might come as a result would be, I think, something of a distinct secondary reward.  Whatever it is that Piet wants to get out of it, besides the satisfaction of winning in a very tough game,  he is also conflicted with his fears for his family and his desire to be with them, to be living without lies, and in safety. 

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Vermontcozy
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One


LadyMin wrote:

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

Rachel-K wrote:

How does the novel so far  challenge our expectations of good guys and bad guys?

 

Some of the characters are both good and bad guys. It is a difficult road to follow. Piet is Paula and the buyer who was murdered was also some kind of a double agent. It surprised me that Piet called attention to the buyer, since he seemed to recognize that he was probably an investigator of some kind, as he was. He felt it was a matter of him or the other guy dying, yet, if he had remained silent, they might both have lived. I suppose he didn't want to have the drug bust since he was working hard to infiltrate the drug running mob. Still it bothered me that someone working to infiltrate the mob to expose it, who seemed to be on the right side of the law, would sacrifice someone else working toward the same end. Does the end justify the means in this case?


 

Piet/Paula is not going to let anything stop him from completing his mission of infiltrating the mob. In the first few pages when he phones Erik to tell him of the unexpected delivery and Erik tells him to pull out, it's too dangerous, he hangs up the phone and goes it alone. He watches another man die rather than risk ruining the mission with a drug bust. He says he loves his wife and misses his family and yet he is willing to repeatedly lie to his wife and even leave them for several months to go to prison to infiltrate even deeper.

 

For Piet the end justifies the means. I don't understand yet why he is so driven but there must be something in his past that would make him want to take down this drug mob at any cost.


I wonder about his past a lot..He has been doing this for 91/2 years as Piet/Paula...If it was only to get out of a longer Prison term..,but there must be some revenge in the mix...Susan

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,258
Registered: ‎10-20-2008

Re: Three Seconds: Part One-PARALLELS


thewanderingjew wrote:

 

I am late to the reading because of some unexpected personal issues so I am not yet prepared to answer the questions, but I have noticed some parallells in the descriptions of some of the characters as they have been introduced.

 

The mule was standing at the railing on the boat, watching the water. He was frightened.

Ewert Grens stopped his car on the bridge and looked at the water, searching for peace.

 

The mule could not sleep .

Erik Wilson found sleep eluding him. He was lonely.

 

Ewert Grens was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his deceased wife.

Piet Hoffman was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his wife when he traveled.

 

Ewert Grens stayed in his office all night. sleeping dressed, on the hard floor.

Piet Hoffman lied down on the hard hotel bed, fully clothed.

 

Has anyone else noticed any other similarities? I wondered if they were intentional and would have greater meaning later on or were they merely accidental.

 


I think Borge and Anders meant this to be intentional..To see the Human side...Not a word or sentence is accidental, in "3" Seconds..Its very tightly and deliberately  written ..132 pages of an enormous amount of information...

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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pen21
Posts: 3,605
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One-PARALLELS

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

 

I am late to the reading because of some unexpected personal issues so I am not yet prepared to answer the questions, but I have noticed some parallells in the descriptions of some of the characters as they have been introduced.

 

The mule was standing at the railing on the boat, watching the water. He was frightened.

Ewert Grens stopped his car on the bridge and looked at the water, searching for peace.

 

The mule could not sleep .

Erik Wilson found sleep eluding him. He was lonely.

 

Ewert Grens was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his deceased wife.

Piet Hoffman was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his wife when he traveled.

 

Ewert Grens stayed in his office all night. sleeping dressed, on the hard floor.

Piet Hoffman lied down on the hard hotel bed, fully clothed.

 

Has anyone else noticed any other similarities? I wondered if they were intentional and would have greater meaning later on or were they merely accidental.

 


Thank you. I will pay more attention. Very interesting.

 

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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,258
Registered: ‎10-20-2008
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One


abags wrote:

After Piet/Paula's meeting with the officials at the end of part one, it made me think about informants being strategically placed in prisons and if/how often that might actually happen.  Gives correctional facility a new meaning.


I agree abags,So much we don't know but are about to find out..Welcome to FirstLook..Great book to get started with ,Susan

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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Atreyu59
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

How does the novel so far  challenge our expectations of good guys and bad guys?  Are you suspending judgment of some characters?

 

 


 

I am only 1/2 way thru the first part of our assignment, due to college work, and at first I was very confused as to who is good and who is bad; yet I am feeling there may be more bad guys overall & I am cheering for the good guys since these bad folks are so prolific.  I will say I am not surprised about the corruption abound in the Police/Secret Service arena

I decided that it is too early to determine if I judge Piet/Paula as good or bad yet.  I am pretty certain I have no feelings about Mariusz & Jerzy- the hired punks.

Reading . . .is LIVING in true color
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IandSsmom
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

I'm not very far along because I think I'm trying to hard to keep everything in perfect order instead of letting the story carry me. It has helped to read everyones insights to get my head back together!

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dhaupt
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

 


IandSsmom wrote:

I'm not very far along because I think I'm trying to hard to keep everything in perfect order instead of letting the story carry me. It has helped to read everyones insights to get my head back together!


 

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think

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Fanasty_Lover
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One


dhaupt wrote:

  

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think


 

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

 

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

 

 

 

Contributor
cdoscher
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎11-03-2010

Re: Three Seconds: Part One

I found this book complicated and confusing in the beginning but now that I am further into the book I am starting to sort out the characters.  I am reserving judgement on most of the characters as we do not know enough about them.  Erik Wilson has me really intrigued and he seems like a good guy right now, but is he really?  Piet is even second guessing Erik and the other supposed good guys as he is taping his meeting with them. 
What do we get of Grens' background? How would you describe his police work?   We don't get much of Grens' backround in this book, just that he was married, his wife has died, and he is a long time police officer.  I think he is good at this job and will go to any means possible to get his man.  He is very methodical in his way of working the case and is going to cause trouble for Piet.
  
Do you have a favorite supporting character?  As with other people here replying, Zofia has me questioning just how much she will be involved in this book and what is Piet going to tell her where he will be for the next few months and will she belive his lies.
 
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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,258
Registered: ‎10-20-2008

Re: Three Seconds: Part One


Fanasty_Lover wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

  

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think


 

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

 

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

 

 

 


I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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irises1889
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

 

I agree that the translation has not been a hindrance for me.  Although another thing that annoyed me a little at the beginning were the Polish sentences that were not translated for the reader.  You get the jist of what it's about, but I would have liked to known what was being said without having to look it up.  Anyone else want these parts translated or do you like the bit of mystery?

Vermontcozy wrote:

Fanasty_Lover wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

 

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think


 

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

 

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

 

 

 


I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..


 

CAG
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CAG
Posts: 218
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

 


wjbauer wrote:
How does the novel so far  challenge our expectations of good guys and bad guys?  Are you suspending judgment of some characters?
 
Larson, the Director General, Is not a person to trust. He is being told what he is supposed to do and he doesn't like it which means Piet Hoffman is in for a bad stay.
I am not trusting Erik Wilson and thinking that when the going gets tough he gets going.  He is in Georgia training for a program for European policeman for handling informers and infiltrators. At present he is working with 5 people including Paula(Hoffman), which I believe could cause a responsibility overload.
Piet is burning the candle at both ends with the Mafia and Police. I hope he doesn't get burned because I like his character, a man who wants to place is family first in his life. 

I liked what you said about Larson. I have not given him a lot of thought. I also was interested to know you don't trust Wilson because that was my feeling too. I guess we will find out as we read on what he is all about.

 

CAG
CAG
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CAG
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One-PARALLELS

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

 

I am late to the reading because of some unexpected personal issues so I am not yet prepared to answer the questions, but I have noticed some parallells in the descriptions of some of the characters as they have been introduced.

 

The mule was standing at the railing on the boat, watching the water. He was frightened.

Ewert Grens stopped his car on the bridge and looked at the water, searching for peace.

 

The mule could not sleep .

Erik Wilson found sleep eluding him. He was lonely.

 

Ewert Grens was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his deceased wife.

Piet Hoffman was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his wife when he traveled.

 

Ewert Grens stayed in his office all night. sleeping dressed, on the hard floor.

Piet Hoffman lied down on the hard hotel bed, fully clothed.

 

Has anyone else noticed any other similarities? I wondered if they were intentional and would have greater meaning later on or were they merely accidental.

 


Oh, I am glad you brought this up. I think the similarities are intentional. I certainly could be wrong but I think the meaning will come out as we read on.


thewanderingjew wrote:

 

I am late to the reading because of some unexpected personal issues so I am not yet prepared to answer the questions, but I have noticed some parallells in the descriptions of some of the characters as they have been introduced.

 

The mule was standing at the railing on the boat, watching the water. He was frightened.

Ewert Grens stopped his car on the bridge and looked at the water, searching for peace.

 

The mule could not sleep .

Erik Wilson found sleep eluding him. He was lonely.

 

Ewert Grens was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his deceased wife.

Piet Hoffman was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his wife when he traveled.

 

Ewert Grens stayed in his office all night. sleeping dressed, on the hard floor.

Piet Hoffman lied down on the hard hotel bed, fully clothed.

 

Has anyone else noticed any other similarities? I wondered if they were intentional and would have greater meaning later on or were they merely accidental.

 


 

CAG
Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: Three Seconds: Translation

[ Edited ]

 

dhaupt wrote: You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.
What do the rest of you think?
Fanasty_Lover wrote: I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

 

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing. 

 

Vermontcozy wrote:  I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..

 


 

I have been wondering about the translation, too.  Is there any reader here who has read this in the original Swedish?  Or who knows Swedish well enough to recognize the impact translation is likely to have had, given the English that is used in the text we have?

 

A couple of places that I stopped to consider whether a translation or cultural or normal sentence construction issue may be at stake:

 

"Susann went back up the steps, grabbed the handle of the terrace door and was about to shut it when she stopped halfway, and shouted:  'I never wanted to see you here again.'"

 

It is hard for me to imagine portraying a young, recently trained professional, a doctor, with the verb "shouted" in this context of a grieving man, no matter what kind of a pest he had become at the nursing home and who perhaps needed to be jolted into self-realization.

 

Several have remarked about the technique of starting so many units of text with "He...", then forcing the reader to absorb considerable more text before recognizing who is the antecedent.  My "sprachgefluhl" (very possibly misguided in this case) suggests the construction is similar in Swedish, but perhaps somehow different and easier on the reader.

 

In general, however, I feel as if I am encountering a good, perhaps excellent, translation.

 

Note:  Changed subject line.  Retain only if applicable!?

 

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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LadyMin
Posts: 51
Registered: ‎11-29-2009
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

Fanasty_Lover wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

 

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think


 

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

 

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

 

 

 


I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..


I didn't have a problem with the translation either. I think what some of the readers might be reacting to is the author's writing style rather than the translation itself.

 

CAG
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CAG
Posts: 218
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

 


dhaupt wrote:

 


IandSsmom wrote:

I'm not very far along because I think I'm trying to hard to keep everything in perfect order instead of letting the story carry me. It has helped to read everyones insights to get my head back together!


 

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think


You make a good point. Every novel that I have read that has been translated has taken me awhile to get into, the first chapter or so or 50/60 pages but then it usually just takes off for me. So, I think it is the mind set of the authors who live somewhere else. What is interesting for me is that I find myself loving these translated books.

 

CAG
Inspired Bibliophile
thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
Registered: ‎12-18-2007
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

I have a feeling that any feeling of disconnect regarding the translation will be worked out in the final edition. I have only read 90 pages so far but I am really enjoying the book! I actually asked my husband to read it along with me so that we could discuss it but so far, he is still reading his own selection!

I do find that often, when the setting is in an unfamiliar place and the foreign language presents unfamiliar words, I don't always grasp the information as quickly. I think Pepper's idea of the fun thread, in which we can elaborate on different places and ideas concerning the book, really enhances the experience. A big thank you goes out to her from me!

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

Fanasty_Lover wrote:

dhaupt wrote:

 

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think


 

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

 

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

 

 

 


I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..


 

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Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007
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Re: Three Seconds: Part One

TWJ -- you are most welcome!  It was Rachel who gave the thread to us.  And you have already given us some fun links yourself (the bridge Grens would have traveled to the nursing home, Siw Malmkvist on You-Tube).  Pepper

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy