Three Seconds: Part One [ Edited ]

[thewanderingjew]

BUT, I never would have thought of doing it, if not for you and Rachel...so thank you both. The idea added another dimension to my reading.

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Peppermill wrote:

TWJ -- you are most welcome!  It was Rachel who gave the thread to us.  And you have already given us some fun links yourself (the bridge Grens would have traveled to the nursing home, Siw Malmkvist on You-Tube).  Pepper

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[dhaupt]

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thewanderingjew wrote:

I have a feeling that any feeling of disconnect regarding the translation will be worked out in the final edition. I have only read 90 pages so far but I am really enjoying the book! I actually asked my husband to read it along with me so that we could discuss it but so far, he is still reading his own selection!

I do find that often, when the setting is in an unfamiliar place and the foreign language presents unfamiliar words, I don't always grasp the information as quickly. I think Pepper's idea of the fun thread, in which we can elaborate on different places and ideas concerning the book, really enhances the experience. A big thank you goes out to her from me!

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Vermontcozy wrote:

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Fanasty_Lover wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think

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I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

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I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..

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Actually speaking of the translation, I think it's more to do with the common language of slang that the translator has trouble converting. I had this very same trouble w/Stieg Larsson's novels. Usually when a novel is translated I tend to prefer the Queen's English version, however most of these are only translated into English once. It doesn't impact how I like the read it just usually takes longer to get into the rhythm of the novel.

[Peppermill]

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bud12 wrote:

Aren't they all mules of some sort...hiding their secrets, living twisted lives, so that the truth gets blurred and denied. The secret agents, the government execs working on this undercover project, are as slippery as Piet and the mafia.  

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Jo -- how are you defining "mule"?

  More broadly than "a person who smuggles or delivers illicit drugs" ?  (Which what online unabridged M-W provides.)  Are you saying that they all in some sense or another delivering illicit drugs?  Or that a mule is someone who lives a double life?

Pepper

[fordmg]

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Peppermill wrote:

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bud12 wrote:

Aren't they all mules of some sort...hiding their secrets, living twisted lives, so that the truth gets blurred and denied. The secret agents, the government execs working on this undercover project, are as slippery as Piet and the mafia.  

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Jo -- how are you defining "mule"?

  More broadly than "a person who smuggles or delivers illicit drugs" ?  (Which what online unabridged M-W provides.)  Are you saying that they all in some sense or another delivering illicit drugs?  Or that a mule is someone who lives a double life?

Pepper

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I define a 'mule' as someone who smuggles drugs inside their body.  Meaning that they are the carrier themselves.  The mules had to swallow the drugs and them vomit them up when they reached Sweden.  It is very dangerous at all angles.  Not just getting cought, but if the ruber package leaks before they can get them out, or if they actually pass through the stomach. 

MG

[Superbookworm]

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Rachel-K wrote:

Do you have a favorite supporting character?

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Definitely Zofia.  I think she's going to be very important to the plot. 

[Peppermill]

Do you have a favorite supporting character?

As usual, I'll pick and choose among Rachel's questions and respond to some and not others, especially where I feel I have little to add to what has already been said, even though I realize multiple responses can be useful to the publishers, writers, marketers, ....

Not a favorite by any shot, at least not yet, but the "mysterious" supporting character to me at this point is Mariana Hermansson. 

I don't have a favorite, but have been fascinated by all the comments about Zofia.  Einarsson was an interesting comment on the burnout that accompanies police work.  (pp. 70-71 "The policeman who had once been a detective himself and who now wore a black apron and worked behind a counter in the basement....)  Will any of the Polish characters have significant on-going roles?  Anni seems to be the "ghost" on the scene.  Then there are Sven Sundkvist and Nils Krantz and Chief Superintendent Goransson and....   Hugo and Rasmus are cute, but I don't expect these authors to develop them into significant supporting characters.

Pepper

[wjbauer]

wjbauer Wrote:

I think we need a map of Sweden as so many city and prison names are mentioned. It should be just showing places in the story. That really helps me keep the story in my mind. 

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dhaupt wrote:

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thewanderingjew wrote:

I have a feeling that any feeling of disconnect regarding the translation will be worked out in the final edition. I have only read 90 pages so far but I am really enjoying the book! I actually asked my husband to read it along with me so that we could discuss it but so far, he is still reading his own selection!

I do find that often, when the setting is in an unfamiliar place and the foreign language presents unfamiliar words, I don't always grasp the information as quickly. I think Pepper's idea of the fun thread, in which we can elaborate on different places and ideas concerning the book, really enhances the experience. A big thank you goes out to her from me!

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Vermontcozy wrote:

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Fanasty_Lover wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think

---

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

---

I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..

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Actually speaking of the translation, I think it's more to do with the common language of slang that the translator has trouble converting. I had this very same trouble w/Stieg Larsson's novels. Usually when a novel is translated I tend to prefer the Queen's English version, however most of these are only translated into English once. It doesn't impact how I like the read it just usually takes longer to get into the rhythm of the novel.

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[Peppermill]

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wjbauer wrote:

I think we need a map of Sweden as so many city and prison names are mentioned. It should be just showing places in the story. That really helps me keep the story in my mind. 

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If you find a good one (or several), do give us a link on the links tread!  (Note:  the author notes say Aspsas prison doesn't exist.)

I am about to mount some links about Sankt Eriksplan (p. 75 plus elsewhere).

[high96]

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Peppermill wrote:

Do you have a favorite supporting character?

As usual, I'll pick and choose among Rachel's questions and respond to some and not others, especially where I feel I have little to add to what has already been said, even though I realize multiple responses can be useful to the publishers, writers, marketers, ....

Not a favorite by any shot, at least not yet, but the "mysterious" supporting character to me at this point is Mariana Hermansson. 

I don't have a favorite, but have been fascinated by all the comments about Zofia.  Einarsson was an interesting comment on the burnout that accompanies police work.  (pp. 70-71 "The policeman who had once been a detective himself and who now wore a black apron and worked behind a counter in the basement....)  Will any of the Polish characters have significant on-going roles?  Anni seems to be the "ghost" on the scene.  Then there are Sven Sundkvist and Nils Krantz and Chief Superintendent Goransson and....   Hugo and Rasmus are cute, but I don't expect these authors to develop them into significant supporting characters.

Pepper

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I think Hugo and Rasmus will be present throughout the book as Piet's  reminder's of guilt and fear. He feels guilty for taking them to the meeting with Wilson and leaving them in the car. And he fears death and becoming a failure (through his lies) and what his sons and wife will think of him and losing their trust. They are also one of his reasons for trying to stay on he "good" path that he has rationalized to himself. 

[charlieasu]

NIce questions!

I'm having a harder time getting into this one than Larsson's book, but I'm thinking that's just because I'm a little preoccupied with what I *should* be doing when I want to read. Too much to do this holiday season!

I'm very surprised that I'm not judging the characters right off the bat; I'm liking the blurring of the lines so far.

Wilson is definitely an odd duck and I'm waiting to get more involved with his story, though I'm not completely finished with part one. (No, I'm not reading everyone's posts just yet to avoid spoilers!)

I think the novel opening with the mules is a nice change of pace with what we may normally see. I think all of us can relate to doing things we may not necessarily want to, but must do.

Enjoying it so far but anxious to sink my teeth into it more!

Sheila

[Vermontcozy]

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LadyMin wrote:

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Vermontcozy wrote:

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Fanasty_Lover wrote:

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dhaupt wrote:

You know that is an interesting thing you brought up and while thinking about it I realized that when I read translated novels it seems to be more of the case, maybe because of the translation not connecting the dots in my brain and maybe because of the mind set of the authors who are based somewhere else besides the US or the UK.

What do the rest of you think

---

I have also noticed that some of the translation is a little shaky as well.  Sometimes I will have to read a paragraph or sentence a few times to get what it is trying to say, the way the authors word things are a little strange and took me some time to get used to. Making the book a little difficult to read at first, but once I got used to it, I have not been able to put the book down.

So far the book is great.  Piet is one of my favorite characters, the intensity of his personality is amazingly written.  His determination, creativeness, and intelligence are the main qualities of his character and also make him a joy to read about. The line that separate his double life is thin and you can tell Zofia herself has some doubts about who he is and as you read, you can tell he does too. It will be interesting to see how everything will play out as his lives slowly come closer to crossing.

---

I think the Translator Kari Dickson did a great job..We must remember that English is spoken very well in Sweden..And The flow of the story for me was not hindered at all by any language translation difficulty..I read a lot of Asian Fiction,British Authors...and others whose first language is not English....Which I am sure many readers do as well...There is a directness in their writing,which might seem cold.Their words are chosen carefully.,and add so much to the story..

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I didn't have a problem with the translation either. I think what some of the readers might be reacting to is the author's writing style rather than the translation itself.

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True LadyMIN  There is a coldness and abrupt writing style which for me fits the Criminal mind set.and the Police.Investigation,,Grens is the only one that shows some emotion..Piet is Daydreaming his Emotions..I think he is very callous.and would prefer to be otherwise...But he is too embebbed in that other world...Just going in a whole other direction..as my mind wanders around "Three Seconds"

[dalejr88SD]

I have not really judge any of the Characters yet because I still trying to figure out some of the Charcters. I just start this book a few days ago because I have been busy working projects and papers. So far i really enjoy what i have read so far. I can't wait to read more and see what happens. I have my boyfriend wanting to read it next after me. He not a big fan of reading but he has heard me talking about it and heard from some where else it was a good book. I will reply back soon.

[MomOf2Turds]

How does the novel so far  challenge our expectations of good guys and bad guys?  Are you suspending judgment of some characters?

I agree with a lot of the other posters that it is a very blurred line between the good and bad guys in this book.  And using the bad guys for good.  I found that to be both pretty brilliant and rather unnerving at the same time.  Brilliant because they know better than most cops would on what is expected of them and their behaviors in the drug trade/mafia world.  But rather unnerving because they view them as expendable.

How would you describe each of our major characters so far?

Piet - I think he is a bad guy turned good.  He is leading a double life.  On one hand, he is the loving and devoted and doting husband and father.  What everyone hopes to have in their lives.  On the other, he is playing the role of this drug kingpin and infiltrating the mafia, as far up the ladder as he could possibly go, in order to ultimately bring them down.  I feel for this guy, and am totally rooting for him.  

Grens - He is still trying to come to terms with the loss of his wife, both her physical death and when he first lost her (the accident briefly mentioned which put her in the care facility to begin with).  He is a great cop who will stop at nothing to solve any case that comes across his desk, and I don't think he is really going to care who he has to burn in the process.

Wilson - He is a big key player in this.  He is Piet's "handler" and a cop.  We don't really have too much more information on this guy yet, but I think he is going to come out a little bigger and stronger in the story a little further on in the book.

What do we get of Grens' background? How would you describe his police work? What does it mean that he has boxed up his cassettes?

We know that he is a veteran cop who has seen others come and go.  He has also seen his share of the horrors that people commit to each other.  He is very thorough in is work and I think he will stop at nothing to solve his cases.  Including his wife's.  I'm not sure, though, if that will be in this book (it has been mentioned previously that her accident was in an earlier book) or a later novel.  I think him boxing up the cassettes was his way of forcing himself to move on with his life after he was jolted to the fact that she really is gone by the doctor at her care facility.  It is his way of putting it on the back burner.  I think he is still going to think a lot about that case, but it helps to focus his mind better on the case at hand (the murder he is investigating) which will keep it off of his mind so much so that he can figure out what exactly it was that he was missing to help him solve the case.

Do we know anything of Erik Wilson's background? What do you make of his character? What was he doing in the United States?

We know that he is a cop and that he was receiving special training in the US.  I'm not sure if he is going to be a good guy for Piet to have in his corner to fight for him when everything hits the fan, but I feel rather strongly that he cares deeply about Piet, and that is the reason he is telling him that he has no one but himself to really rely on.  

Do you have a favorite supporting character?

My favorite supporting character is Zofia.  Mainly because she has my odd/even number quirk.  I thought I was the only one out there.  But, I think she may only be a supporting character for the first part of the book.  I feel that she is going to play a much larger and deeper role than anyone, even Piet, realizes.  I am looking forward to seeing what the authors have in store for her.

Why do we open the novel in the perspective of one of the Polish "mules" taking drugs into Stockholm?

I think they did it more to grab your attention from the beginning than anything.  Although I did like the suggestion that it was done to show us the depravity of the mafia/world as a whole.

[MomOf2Turds]

Oh, and I forgot to add that I am trying to reserve judgement on the characters until I know more about them, although I am pretty sure that Piet is overall a good guy here.  And Grens is, as well.

[MomOf2Turds]

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tmcb wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

 "My favorite supporting character so far is Zofia. While she is playing the part of the loving, unsuspecting wife and mother, I think there is more to her. I don't think she believes all the lies, but also don't think she knows the truth. I only hope she stays on the good side of things."

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Interesting,  you would pick Zofia as your favorite. Until now I was thinking of her as not very important to the story but maybe your are on to somehting. Isthere more to Zofia than meets the eye? Will she have a bigger role in the end? You would think she would be more suspicious of Hoffman, but up to this point hasn't vocalized any doubt in her husband.  Maybe because she knows more than what he thinks she does, maybe he shouldn't be feeling "guilty" lying to her, maybe she is lying to him.

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I think that Zofia is going to play a rather major role later on in the novel.  I am just not sure which side she is going to be on.  I think she doesn't ask questions because she doesn't want the same questions asked of her.

[literature]

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Vermontcozy wrote:

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thewanderingjew wrote:

I am late to the reading because of some unexpected personal issues so I am not yet prepared to answer the questions, but I have noticed some parallells in the descriptions of some of the characters as they have been introduced.

The mule was standing at the railing on the boat, watching the water. He was frightened.

Ewert Grens stopped his car on the bridge and looked at the water, searching for peace.

The mule could not sleep .

Erik Wilson found sleep eluding him. He was lonely.

Ewert Grens was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his deceased wife.

Piet Hoffman was consumed with love for his wife. He was lonely for his wife when he traveled.

Ewert Grens stayed in his office all night. sleeping dressed, on the hard floor.

Piet Hoffman lied down on the hard hotel bed, fully clothed.

Has anyone else noticed any other similarities? I wondered if they were intentional and would have greater meaning later on or were they merely accidental.

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I think Borge and Anders meant this to be intentional..To see the Human side...Not a word or sentence is accidental, in "3" Seconds..Its very tightly and deliberately  written ..132 pages of an enormous amount of information...

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I noticed the comparisons and they are intentional.  Everything in this book is written for a purpose.  As written above "it's very tightly and deliberately written".  There is a lot of repeated thoughts.  Paula reminding himself to be in control, Piet about how he longs for Zofia and how much he loves those two little boys.  Gren how much he misses Anni and always thinking about Siw Malmkvist.  Paula kept thinking one shot, two exits.  Krantz keeps thinking one entrance wound from one shot,  Paula, one part amphetamine to two parts grape sugar.  The bullet, half lead and half titanium.  Even the small red plastic fire engine in the driveway was mentioned a few times.  How many times did Piet mention that he is a nobody.   We read these facts so many times that we can't forget them and, for me, it adds so much more to the intrigue.  I love their use of the italics. I find myself reading this book very slowly and then discussing with myself about what I just read. 

[literature]

One thing caught my attention looking through the first part again.  Bottom of page 9 when Paula called Erik on the phone.  Get out. Now.  I repeat, get out.  You won't get any backup from me.  Listen to me, get out, for Christ's sake!"  This conversation was before the infiltrator had been shot and we know that Erik does back up Paula.  What surprised me was that Erik being so precise with all the details in this Paula project, would make an idle threat.  We know that he does go to great lengths to support him as he considers Paula to be the best of the five men all put together that he is currently working with, and then Paula hangs up on him. 

[elaine_hf]

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BookWoman718 wrote:

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elaine_hf wrote:

 I think Erik is the least trustworthy of the bunch. He's involved in some way in military/spy training, then he appears as Piet's attorney, if I'm not mistaken - what exactly is he?? And who's side is he on?? We think it's Piet's, but can we be certain at this point? He's all in favor of Piet serving time and setting up the drug connections in prison, I have a hard time believing that he's so altruistic.

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Erik is a policeman and he is also Piet's 'handler' - not his attorney.  He speaks on behalf of Piet to the govt officials because as a police detective they will look to him to provide the rationale;  they trust him as they could not trust Piet.   So far his actions lead us to believe he is a 'good guy' if you want to look at the surface.  He is handling Piet in the line of duty - to root out and contain the expansion of the Polish mafia into prisons.  Everything he has done seems to be in furtherance of that goal, and he has acted skillfully to both check out Piet's story of the murder and to set up the one they will use to place Piet in prison.  I don't see his working with Piet as 'altruistic' - it's his job.  He recruited Piet in order to use him to 'get inside' the Polish mafia.  They both understand that.  It's not a friendship.  It's a working relationship and so far there's no indication that Piet was coerced into it.  He, too, wants to get the job done.  If they are successful, the main payoff will be psychic;  the excitement of winning a tough battle.  The job promotion for Erik that might come as a result would be, I think, something of a distinct secondary reward.  Whatever it is that Piet wants to get out of it, besides the satisfaction of winning in a very tough game,  he is also conflicted with his fears for his family and his desire to be with them, to be living without lies, and in safety.

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Yes, I agree with what you said, and I see now where my error is - I knew that Erik was Piet's handler, but on page 122, the 3rd paragraph says, "Erik Wilson, the defense lawyer in this trial, cleared his throat." That was really just a figure of speech that I read too quickly. But I would still contend that Mr. Wilson wears many hats - he's abroad in the start of the book, now he's back home - and I'm not ready to say that I think he's simply what is portrayed on the surface. Oh well, all of this will hopefully start to play out in the next section.

[BookWoman718]

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Peppermill wrote:

Do you have a favorite supporting character?

Not a favorite by any shot, at least not yet, but the "mysterious" supporting character to me at this point is Mariana Hermansson. 

Having already read the authors' previous book, "Box 21"  I am keeping an eye on Mariana.  She was seen by Grens as a young officer with exceptional potential.  I wouldn't be surprised to see more of her, especially if the plot begins to cover more of Grens and company's activities once Piet is inside prison. 

[Vermontcozy]

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BookWoman718 wrote:

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Peppermill wrote:

Do you have a favorite supporting character?

Not a favorite by any shot, at least not yet, but the "mysterious" supporting character to me at this point is Mariana Hermansson. 

Having already read the authors' previous book, "Box 21"  I am keeping an eye on Mariana.  She was seen by Grens as a young officer with exceptional potential.  I wouldn't be surprised to see more of her, especially if the plot begins to cover more of Grens and company's activities once Piet is inside prison. 

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That was a good Idea to read a previous novel by the Authors..Did you read it when you knew who the Authors of FirstLook were,or before.? I went back and read about Mariana..as the plot thickens