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1archi1
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

  
How would you judge Piet as a man in these chapters if you'd had no picture of his life outside the prison walls before this?  
 
uncaring, just a mean person who only cares about himself.  If I didn't know his backstory I would say he deserved what he got and wouldn't have felt sorry for him.
  
We spend quite a lot of time in these chapters observing Ewert Grens. How does he compare to the other officers he works with and for?  
 
I think he is a very dedicated cop, who loves his job and will do what ever it takes to solve a case.
 
Why does Grens attempt to go the cemetery twice in these chapters? Can you describe his struggle?    

 

Grens is trying to say goodbye to his wife, not really to move on, because I am not sure you can truely move on when you lose a love like that, but at least to make peace within himself.  She was the love of his life and saying goodbye is a struggle for him.

 

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Peppermill
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


deana99 wrote:

I got a bit behind with work and the holidays but once I got to part 3, it was flying!  I am sure I will finish the book quickly, seeing that I cannot put it down. 

 

Part three was awesome...  I was amazed at how detailed Piet's plans were for prison... both taking over and protecting himself.  Extremely detailed and knowledgable.... I am surprised how well it worked for him.  I know that he prepared for his possible exposure, and knew that he could not depend on anyone, including the police....but I do not believe that he ever expected that they would be the ones to burn him, and so quickly after his arrival and takeover! 

 

I am wondering what Piet has in place on the outside...what he has Zofia doing?  I am also curious to see what he has sent to Grens.... Amazing how he knew that he was the "true cop" that could be trusted in the end.  Where is Erik Wilson?????  I cannot believe that after all of the work to get to this point in their infiltration, that he is not reachable?!!!!!


I am also curious to see what he has sent to Grens.... Amazing how he knew that he was the "true cop" that could be trusted in the end.

 

I thought Piet's trust of Grens to receive the information was a neat twist in the plot.  It was another example of Piet's perceptiveness about the people around him.  I wonder how he knew enough about Gren's to make that choice.


Where is Erik Wilson?????  I cannot believe that after all of the work to get to this point in their infiltration, that he is not reachable?!!!!!

 

That is one element of the plot line that seemed a bit contrived to me after Erik had not wanted Piet/Paula to go ahead with the previous drug delivery when he (Erik) was out of country.  With this even bigger deal going down, why didn't he stay around?  Returning to the U.S. for training seemed more because the plot needed him to be unreachable than because such seemed realistic.

 

Pepper

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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elaine_hf
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

[ Edited ]

 


Peppermill wrote:

 


deana99 wrote:

 


I am also curious to see what he has sent to Grens.... Amazing how he knew that he was the "true cop" that could be trusted in the end.

 

I thought Piet's trust of Grens to receive the information was a neat twist in the plot.  It was another example of Piet's perceptiveness about the people around him.  I wonder how he knew enough about Gren's to make that choice.


Where is Erik Wilson?????  I cannot believe that after all of the work to get to this point in their infiltration, that he is not reachable?!!!!!

 

That is one element of the plot line that seemed a bit contrived to me after Erik had not wanted Piet/Paula to go ahead with the previous drug delivery when he (Erik) was out of country.  With this even bigger deal going down, why didn't he stay around?  Returning to the U.S. for training seemed more because the plot needed him to be unreachable than because such seemed realistic.

 

Pepper

 


(Bolding is mine)

 

I think that Piet trusted Grens because he found out that Grens was coming to interview him while he (Piet) was in prison, and was turned away. He probably had to make a quick judgment call on this one, and perhaps came to the conclusion that Grens wasn't involved in 'burning' him because he wanted to come to the prison and talk.

 

I also think that Erik's absence was a bit contrived. I know he says he thought things were fine, that Piet was unreachable for several days, but I don't see how Erik could comfortably leave the country while Piet was in danger. Couldn't he postpone the training??

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Peppermill
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Elaine_hf wrote (excerpt):  I think that Piet trusted Grens because he found out that Grens was coming to interview him while he (Piet) was in prison, and was turned away. He probably had to make a quick judgment call on this one, and perhaps came to the conclusion that Grens wasn't involved in 'burning' him because he wanted to come to the prison and talk.

 

I thought Piet addressed the envelope with the recording to Grens before he even went to jail and had Zofia simply retrieve and mail it.  Or do I need to go re-read?

 

Pepper

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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JerseyAngel
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

I was just now able to finish Part III. So bothered that I am so far behind! This book leaves you on the edge of your seat!!

 

The line between the good guys & the bad guys is very blurred. I find myself rooting for Piet. Even though he was once a bad guy, he is holding up his end of the bargain to help the police. As suspected before, things don't go as planned & Piet is left on his own. It becomes so frustrating at times when you think why didn't they tell Grens? Why was it such a huge secret that they couldn't let in a fellow officer on something they had spent years trying to achieve before he ruins it?

 

As far as judging Piet, I think he was once a bad guy, so he knows how to be bad guy. He knows the lifestyle, the prison system, etc, But he wants out, he wants his family & to be a different person but he can only do that by helping the police. The sad part is that it's like he is being used like a piece of trash & not a human being.

 

I really like how realistic everything is. You can tell the author places a lot of time & research into what he is writing & this makes for an even more enjoyable story. Even though this all takes place in a country I have never been, it doesn't take away from the story at all.

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AnnahE
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Wow, a lot happened in this part of the book!  I was surprised at how intricate the plans were for Piet to get the job, gun, and smuggle the drugs but shocked at how little preparation there was if something went wrong.  It seems like Wilson was ok if all the plans worked out, but if there were problems...well, so be it.  Poor Grens.  He knows that something isn't on the level but nobody is confiding in him.  He visits the cemetary because he is still tortured about his wife's death and still hasn't come to grips with it.

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tempestuous9
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Piet's plans for entering prison and wiping out the other drug trade work perfectly, just as he planned.  He carefully planted the drugs in other prisoners cells and knew that a search would be conducted on a specific day before he went to prison.

 

His plans that were so carefully constructed were recked when one fraction of the police decided to "burn" him.  They had an attorney carry a message to an inmate in his block and he was ousted as a snitch.  

 

If you had no idea what Piet was like outside of prison than you would think that this corrupt, ruthless man was evil.  However, having been exposed to him before hand you have to understand he is simply trying to survive.

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elaine_hf
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


Peppermill wrote:

Elaine_hf wrote (excerpt):  I think that Piet trusted Grens because he found out that Grens was coming to interview him while he (Piet) was in prison, and was turned away. He probably had to make a quick judgment call on this one, and perhaps came to the conclusion that Grens wasn't involved in 'burning' him because he wanted to come to the prison and talk.

 

I thought Piet addressed the envelope with the recording to Grens before he even went to jail and had Zofia simply retrieve and mail it.  Or do I need to go re-read?

 

Pepper


Hmmm, I think I'll go back and re-read it too. I really can't imagine Piet singling out Grens prior to prison - unless I missed something, I don't recall their paths crossing. I know Piet put everything into an envelope, but I don't recall that he addressed it. I perhaps made an erroneous assumption when I thought that Piet had given Zofia instructions over the phone regarding the disposition of the envelope. 

 

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fordmg
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three


elaine_hf wrote:

 


Peppermill wrote:

Elaine_hf wrote (excerpt):  I think that Piet trusted Grens because he found out that Grens was coming to interview him while he (Piet) was in prison, and was turned away. He probably had to make a quick judgment call on this one, and perhaps came to the conclusion that Grens wasn't involved in 'burning' him because he wanted to come to the prison and talk.

 

I thought Piet addressed the envelope with the recording to Grens before he even went to jail and had Zofia simply retrieve and mail it.  Or do I need to go re-read?

 

Pepper


Hmmm, I think I'll go back and re-read it too. I really can't imagine Piet singling out Grens prior to prison - unless I missed something, I don't recall their paths crossing. I know Piet put everything into an envelope, but I don't recall that he addressed it. I perhaps made an erroneous assumption when I thought that Piet had given Zofia instructions over the phone regarding the disposition of the envelope. 

 


I think Piet knew from the start that this job would include 'dirty' cops and Wilson said Grens was the onle he could trust.  That is why Wilson kept asking Piet - You can always back out, you still have time.   It was so dangerous because he was fighting the drug scene and the police.

MG

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

I think it is interesting that Wilson trusted Grens since they obviously didn't have much of a relationship. Maybe he knew that he was a "clean" cop in the true sense of the word, and couldn't be compromised. Grens was always interested in justice and solving the case, not just putting it away to go after more "politically" correct cases like Agestam. His motivations seemed purer and perhaps that is what Wilson divined from him. Even though they weren't friends, he knew Grens, unlike the others, would not betray him.

 

I don't even think Wilson trusted himself not to betray Piet and I think that is why he told him about Grens.

 

In the end, we don't see Wilson trying to find him, we see him moving on and then hearing from Piet so he knows he is safe, without him lifting a finger to help him.

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

I think it is interesting that Wilson trusted Grens since they obviously didn't have much of a relationship. Maybe he knew that he was a "clean" cop in the true sense of the word, and couldn't be compromised. Grens was always interested in justice and solving the case, not just putting it away to go after more "politically" correct cases like Agestam. His motivations seemed purer and perhaps that is what Wilson divined from him. Even though they weren't friends, he knew Grens, unlike the others, would not betray him.

 

I don't even think Wilson trusted himself not to betray Piet and I think that is why he told him about Grens.

 

In the end, we don't see Wilson trying to find him, we see him moving on and then hearing from Piet so he knows he is safe, without him lifting a finger to help him.


 

 

I don't even think Wilson trusted himself not to betray Piet and I think that is why he told him about Grens.

 

Don't understand what is meant here, that Wilson didn't trust himself not to betray Piet.

 

In the end, we don't see Wilson trying to find him, we see him moving on and then hearing from Piet so he knows he is safe, without him lifting a finger to help him.

 

Wouldn't it have been more dangerous for Piet if Wilson did try to reach him after he was "safe" than to not -- rather like Grens and possibly the prison warden, if he did recognize Hoffmann as Piet walked out, as someone here has asked?  I.e., wasn't silence Piet's best protection at that point?

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three


thewanderingjew wrote:

I think it is interesting that Wilson trusted Grens since they obviously didn't have much of a relationship. Maybe he knew that he was a "clean" cop in the true sense of the word, and couldn't be compromised. Grens was always interested in justice and solving the case, not just putting it away to go after more "politically" correct cases like Agestam. His motivations seemed purer and perhaps that is what Wilson divined from him. Even though they weren't friends, he knew Grens, unlike the others, would not betray him.

 

I don't even think Wilson trusted himself not to betray Piet and I think that is why he told him about Grens.

 

In the end, we don't see Wilson trying to find him, we see him moving on and then hearing from Piet so he knows he is safe, without him lifting a finger to help him.


I think Wilson did not try to find Piet because he believed that he was actually dead.  Remember, when the phone rang he couldn't immagine who was calling.  He didn't rush to listen to the message.  He thought maybe someone found the phone and was using it.  Wilson was shocked, pleasantly, to find out that Piet was still alive and completed the mission.

MG

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 To all who wondered about where Erik was during Piet's time in prison, it says on p. 262 that Piet knew "Erik Wilson wasn't there, he knew he was away in the United States, at some course in the south-east, during the period that they were not going to have any contact."  The plan was that once Piet went into isolation, it would take a week to sort out the papers and get him out.  Of course, the whole plan had escalated, which accounts for why Erik didn't answer the phone.

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


Peppermill wrote: 
edited by twj: 
I don't even think Wilson trusted himself not to betray Piet and I think that is why he told him about Grens.
Don't understand what is meant here, that Wilson didn't trust himself not to betray Piet.

 

twj wrote: 

 

In the line of duty, I think Wilson would have done what was expected of him and would have also betrayed Piet, if told to do so, even though he considered him a friend. I don't think he would have wanted to, though. He didn't usually get as personally involved as he did but because of his wife and family, he was more concerned about him.

 

In the end, we don't see Wilson trying to find him, we see him moving on and then hearing from Piet so he knows he is safe, without him lifting a finger to help him.

 

Wouldn't it have been more dangerous for Piet if Wilson did try to reach him after he was "safe" than to not -- rather like Grens and possibly the prison warden, if he did recognize Hoffmann as Piet walked out, as someone here has asked?  I.e., wasn't silence Piet's best protection at that point?

 

twj wrote:

 

I thought it was unusual that he left the country and did not even wonder how Piet was doing in the prison. That's what I meant by his moving on. He seemed to totally forget about Piet and was therefore unaware of what had happened to him. Since he professed to care about him I thought it was odd. I should have written, "without having lifted a finger to help him escape". Once Wilson knew he was safe, contacting him was out of the question. It would certainly jeopardize his safety. Anonymity was the order of the day.

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

 


Peppermill wrote: 
edited by twj: 
I don't even think Wilson trusted himself not to betray Piet and I think that is why he told him about Grens.
Don't understand what is meant here, that Wilson didn't trust himself not to betray Piet.

 

twj wrote: 

 

In the line of duty, I think Wilson would have done what was expected of him and would have also betrayed Piet, if told to do so, even though he considered him a friend. I don't think he would have wanted to, though. He didn't usually get as personally involved as he did but because of his wife and family, he was more concerned about him.

 

In the end, we don't see Wilson trying to find him, we see him moving on and then hearing from Piet so he knows he is safe, without him lifting a finger to help him.

 

Wouldn't it have been more dangerous for Piet if Wilson did try to reach him after he was "safe" than to not -- rather like Grens and possibly the prison warden, if he did recognize Hoffmann as Piet walked out, as someone here has asked?  I.e., wasn't silence Piet's best protection at that point?

 

twj wrote:

 

I thought it was unusual that he left the country and did not even wonder how Piet was doing in the prison. That's what I meant by his moving on. He seemed to totally forget about Piet and was therefore unaware of what had happened to him. Since he professed to care about him I thought it was odd. I should have written, "without having lifted a finger to help him escape". Once Wilson knew he was safe, contacting him was out of the question. It would certainly jeopardize his safety. Anonymity was the order of the day.

 


 

I still don't understand the evidence Erik would have betrayed Piet, especially given the way he treated Sven in Florida.

 

On the other hand, as I've written elsewhere, I didn't understand Erik's returning to Georgia during this operation, except for expediency to the plot, when in the original delivery he didn't want Paula to go ahead alone.  I consider the authors to have perhaps been inconsistent??

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 

Even though he had told Paula not to go ahead alone, originally, he still left for GA, and never looked back, once he saw him enter the prison. I guess I also thought that he would betray him because he seemed to move on to the next thing without thinking of Piet again, without even wondering how he fared from the beatings he received initially, without quietly checking to see how he was doing in the prison with the drug dealers. He seemed so concerned about him when he watched him enter the prison, but afterwards, it was as if he was just the means to the end and his part of the job was over. At least, that was the impression I got.

You are right, though, there is no real evidence to prove that.

 

I thought Erik Wilson returned to GA to complete whatever course and training he started at the beginning but was then forced to cut short because Paula's job went awry. Perhaps his return to GA was meant to show us that this kind of police work is more common than we thought and it was going to continue.

 

Peppermill wrote:

 

 


I still don't understand the evidence Erik would have betrayed Piet, especially given the way he treated Sven in Florida.

 

On the other hand, as I've written elsewhere, I didn't understand Erik's returning to Georgia during this operation, except for expediency to the plot, when in the original delivery he didn't want Paula to go ahead alone.  I consider the authors to have perhaps been inconsistent??


 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


JaneM wrote:

 To all who wondered about where Erik was during Piet's time in prison, it says on p. 262 that Piet knew "Erik Wilson wasn't there, he knew he was away in the United States, at some course in the south-east, during the period that they were not going to have any contact."  The plan was that once Piet went into isolation, it would take a week to sort out the papers and get him out.  Of course, the whole plan had escalated, which accounts for why Erik didn't answer the phone.


which accounts for why Erik didn't answer the phone.

 

 

? I don't understand this comment.  Which phone, when?

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


elaine_hf wrote:

 


Peppermill wrote:

Elaine_hf wrote (excerpt):  I think that Piet trusted Grens because he found out that Grens was coming to interview him while he (Piet) was in prison, and was turned away. He probably had to make a quick judgment call on this one, and perhaps came to the conclusion that Grens wasn't involved in 'burning' him because he wanted to come to the prison and talk.

 

I thought Piet addressed the envelope with the recording to Grens before he even went to jail and had Zofia simply retrieve and mail it.  Or do I need to go re-read?

 

Pepper


Hmmm, I think I'll go back and re-read it too. I really can't imagine Piet singling out Grens prior to prison - unless I missed something, I don't recall their paths crossing. I know Piet put everything into an envelope, but I don't recall that he addressed it. I perhaps made an erroneous assumption when I thought that Piet had given Zofia instructions over the phone regarding the disposition of the envelope. 

 


Check out pages 169-170.  I understood those lines to imply Hugo saw Ewert Grens name on the brown envelope.

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Piet did single out Grens before prison and also prepared a letter for Zofia. When he finally reaches her on the phone, he asked her if she followed his instructions. He made arrangements with her before he went to prison.

Referring to a former post, Erik did not answer his phone because he was in training in GA. In the end, he found out about Piet from a voice message.

I don't think that Piet believed that Grens or Zofia would receive/need the letters he prepared because he thought his mission would be successful.

I don't know how, but I think he must have known how sincere Grens was as a police officer. I feel now, that he must have wanted to absolve him of the guilt of ordering someone's death. He planned everything so perfectly down to the most minute detail. It must have been Zofia who sent the letter to Grens for him.

In the end, that knowledge freed Grens in more ways than one!

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three


Peppermill wrote:

 


JaneM wrote:

 To all who wondered about where Erik was during Piet's time in prison, it says on p. 262 that Piet knew "Erik Wilson wasn't there, he knew he was away in the United States, at some course in the south-east, during the period that they were not going to have any contact."  The plan was that once Piet went into isolation, it would take a week to sort out the papers and get him out.  Of course, the whole plan had escalated, which accounts for why Erik didn't answer the phone.


which accounts for why Erik didn't answer the phone.

 

 

? I don't understand this comment.  Which phone, when?


Erik thought he had a week in Georgia before Piet would need him again.  But Piet called earlier when he demanded to call the police, didn't he?  Or maybe he was just calling the other police officials who were supposed to bail him out.

Jane M.