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OKC_NookJA
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


Annalisa13 wrote:

I could not read just to the end of part three!  This book just starts moving so fast I finished it this past weekend but had to take breaks getting to the end because of the suspense and all that was happening, I thought I might explode!  Excellent Book for sure!!!!!

 


That is what happened to me. Part Three really picks up speed and I had to finish the book this past Saturday.

 

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OKC_NookJA
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


Peppermill wrote: 

OKC_NookJA wrote:
We spend quite a lot of time in these chapters observing Ewert Grens. How does he compare to the other officers he works with and for?

Grens likes to keep distant from other officers. He is determined to solve his cases and "doesn't give up".

He is a saint compared to Erik Wilson and his supervisor Gronnason. Grens would never recruit a criminal to infiltrate crime organizations and he certainly wouldn't "burn" them. He wouldn't cover up infiltrators crimes.

 


Which is probably part of why Grens is never assigned to become a "handler" nor is sent for special training.  This is part of where I wonder what kind of statement B&H are making about the U.S. role in crime solving and terror control going forward.  They do make it clear their literary intent includes social criticism.  How much voice can ordinary citizens have about such tactics?

 

What assessment of bad guy versus good guy do you think the authors want the readers to have of Erik Wilson?

 


 

SPOILER ALERT

 

At the back of the book, the authors say that the police recruiting and using infiltrator's, sometimes burning them and letting them get away with crimes is based on fact.

 

Of course, the police superiors would recruit officers to do this type of work. Makes it interesting that Wilson and Grens had the same supervisor.

 

Erik Wilson is sent off to Georgia for training and then his boss burns Hoffman. When Sven interviews Wilson, he confirms who was involved because they burned Hoffman without Wilson being involved. Wilson doesn't say he disagrees with the burning.

 

So what I took away from Wilson is that he is the same as Goransson. Just as complicit and just as guilty.

 

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blackjack77
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Me, too!  I finished as well, and loved it.  But not giving out any spoiler info!!

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


OKC_NookJA wrote:

Peppermill wrote: 

OKC_NookJA wrote:
We spend quite a lot of time in these chapters observing Ewert Grens. How does he compare to the other officers he works with and for?

Grens likes to keep distant from other officers. He is determined to solve his cases and "doesn't give up".

He is a saint compared to Erik Wilson and his supervisor Gronnason. Grens would never recruit a criminal to infiltrate crime organizations and he certainly wouldn't "burn" them. He wouldn't cover up infiltrators crimes.

 


Which is probably part of why Grens is never assigned to become a "handler" nor is sent for special training.  This is part of where I wonder what kind of statement B&H are making about the U.S. role in crime solving and terror control going forward.  They do make it clear their literary intent includes social criticism.  How much voice can ordinary citizens have about such tactics?

 

What assessment of bad guy versus good guy do you think the authors want the readers to have of Erik Wilson?

 


 

SPOILER ALERT

 

At the back of the book, the authors say that the police recruiting and using infiltrator's, sometimes burning them and letting them get away with crimes is based on fact.

 

Of course, the police superiors would recruit officers to do this type of work. Makes it interesting that Wilson and Grens had the same supervisor.

 

Erik Wilson is sent off to Georgia for training and then his boss burns Hoffman. When Sven interviews Wilson, he confirms who was involved because they burned Hoffman without Wilson being involved. Wilson doesn't say he disagrees with the burning.

 

So what I took away from Wilson is that he is the same as Goransson. Just as complicit and just as guilty.

 


Piet was believed dead when Sven reached Wilson.  Does that impact your judgment of Wilson?  Why or why not?

 

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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OKC_NookJA
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


Peppermill wrote:

 

Piet was believed dead when Sven reached Wilson.  Does that impact your judgment of Wilson?  Why or why not?

 


 

It doesn't impact my judgment.

 

In the middle of Sven's questioning Wilson, Wilson has a thought "I miss you". But what Wilson has been doing and how he reacts shows that he thinks he is above the law.

 

Quoting Wilson responding to Sven: "But ... the truth is that I don't like people who burn my best informant when I'm not there." If he is telling the truth then he doesn't mind his informants being burned. He knows that the organizations those informants work for will murder them.

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thewanderingjew
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Whew, I needed to take breaks in between the reading because of the tension created in me. I wanted to answer the phone when Piet calls, I wanted to smack around the people in charge. I wanted to send out a search party for Wilson! If reading about it makes me feel so frustrated and angry about the situation, what must a person trapped in the system feel?

I have about 40 pages to go for part 3. Rest time is over.

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

BTW, in case anyone missed my post in Interesting Links, here it is again; sorry about the size, it reproduced much larger.

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dhaupt
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

Whew, I needed to take breaks in between the reading because of the tension created in me. I wanted to answer the phone when Piet calls, I wanted to smack around the people in charge. I wanted to send out a search party for Wilson! If reading about it makes me feel so frustrated and angry about the situation, what must a person trapped in the system feel?

I have about 40 pages to go for part 3. Rest time is over.


I know, see our feelings are all over the place. These authors have really really been successful of wringing out every emotion from the readers. Plus it's not original to English and we're still all twittery about the situation.

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

BTW, in case anyone missed my post in Interesting Links, here it is again; sorry about the size, it reproduced much larger.

 


I saw your post earlier, and it really put things into perspective for me. Teeny weapon, huge impact! After seeing your re-post, I went out and looked it up - those little guns carry a huge price tag (approx. $6700)! I am not under the impression that either Piet or Zofia are making huge salaries; this is another way in which Piet is gambling on the things he'll need to survive.

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

This novel is terrific. It is so good that I cannot wait to finish it but I do not want the book to end because I am enjoying it so much. Is it not strange how we judge good and bad? If you are bad and do bad things it is evil, but If you are good and do bad things and have a good reason it is okay?

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

[ Edited ]

 


OKC_NookJA wrote:

Peppermill wrote:
Piet was believed dead when Sven reached Wilson.  Does that impact your judgment of Wilson?  Why or why not?

It doesn't impact my judgment.

 

In the middle of Sven's questioning Wilson, Wilson has a thought "I miss you". But what Wilson has been doing and how he reacts shows that he thinks he is above the law.

 

Quoting Wilson responding to Sven: "But ... the truth is that I don't like people who burn my best informant when I'm not there." If he is telling the truth then he doesn't mind his informants being burned. He knows that the organizations those informants work for will murder them.


So back to my original question, or at least a variant thereof:  What is the point B&H are making by sending Wilson to the U.S. to get the best training -- I believe it says somewhere in advanced infiltration skills?

 

(As another diversion, put what Wilson said in the context that Sven is representing Grens at this point, that Grens was the gold commander who made the decision about shooting Piet, and there never seemed to be a lot of love lost between Grens and Wilson on how to pursue crime when/if necessary.  Which of them is proactive?  Which reactive to crime?  Does it matter?   When, why, where....)

 

Final comment, not sure it is a logical necessity from what Wilson says that he doesn't mind his informants being burned.  Doesn't the statement seem more James Bond cryptic for the situation at hand than one from which to generalize or apply formal logic.

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

I have not finished yet, does your comment mean that Wilson never gets him out of isolation as planned? I stopped reading at WHERE IS HE because I don't want to read about what I don't know yet.

I will be madder than you know what if that is true...onward to the book, now I go!

I think you and I are on the same page in our feelings about what appears to be happening to Piet.

 


literature wrote:
I just have to let off some steam.  Part III was W-O-W.  .

 

I am completely disillusioned with Wilson, have lost all respect for him.  WHERE IS HE? 

 


Keep reading.  My blood was boiling while I read it.  I can't discuss it with you until you finish Part III.  Read carefully, a lot of information in this part.  I read myself to sleep Sunday night because I had to finish this section but, of course, I fell asleep reading and wound up getting up in the middle of the night to read more.  Finally finished Part III while eating breakfast.

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 

BE CAREFUL OF SPOILERS.  WE ARE ONLY READING THROUGH PART III.



nfam wrote:

The authors said in response to a question that they were trying to show the various aspects of good and evil:how a criminal can be good and how the law enforcement officers can be evil. I thought the ending was an excellent illustration of this point. Piet had done bad things, but he was an intrinsically good person. I thought this was illustrated by his care for the prison warden he held hostage. On the other hand, the law enforcement hierarchy had no qualms about burning their own man, if it kept them from looking bad. I felt these people had become so hardened to the sufferings of others that they didn't think about them as real people. There was no discussion of how Piet's death would affect his family. He was simply a tool. 

 

Erik Wilson was different. He was afraid of what would happen to himself, but he also cared about Piet as a person. I was glad he tried to dissuade him from taking on the assignment. I also liked the ending. Piet was right to call him and reassure him. They really cared about each other on some level.

 

I thought the ending was excellent. I just hope there are as many law enforcement people as criminals reading about all the clever ruses Piet used to smuggle in drugs. He was quite a brilliant strategist.

 

Very good book. I much enjoyed it.   


 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


dhaupt wrote:

 


literature wrote:
I just have to let off some steam.  Part III was W-O-W.  .

 

I am completely disillusioned with Wilson, have lost all respect for him.  WHERE IS HE?  He talks about how much Piet means to him, he's become a friend. 

 

Hi literature, I remember in part two when Erik and Piet were putting the final touches on the prison sentence that Wilson stated that it would be some days before he would know if anything went wrong because he would be back at Quantico.

And I remember in part three while Piet was in prison that he recounted this.

 

I reserving my opinion of Erik until I find out more in part four, because I'm still giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 


 

You're a better person than me!  I should be more patient.  Wilson was down in the southern part of Georgia, not Quantico.  I reread the beginning pages again this morning to see if I could pick up some new feelings about Wilson.  He is a hardened human being, a loner and a very lonely person but capable of showing emotion to Piet.  

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

BTW, in case anyone missed my post in Interesting Links, here it is again; sorry about the size, it reproduced much larger.


Seeing the picture of the actual gun helped me a lot.  For some reason, this book is evoking visualizations for me all over the place as I am reading it.  The authors did a great job is describing everything and I'm in there right with the characters as everything is going on.  

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Did I miss something in Part 3. Someone wrote that Wilson was in Georgia and I don't remember that part. Regardless, it is a really well written novel and it has kept me on the edge of my seat. I really don't think I will be able to wait to finish it, until next week. If Rachel is reading this, please, please, in a few days, open up a thread for the whole book. I really can't put it down now! For me this is better than the Larsson series. In those the details were so heavy, sometimes, that I had to put the book down because I


literature wrote:

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

I have not finished yet, does your comment mean that Wilson never gets him out of isolation as planned? I stopped reading at WHERE IS HE because I don't want to read about what I don't know yet.

I will be madder than you know what if that is true...onward to the book, now I go!

I think you and I are on the same page in our feelings about what appears to be happening to Piet.

 


literature wrote:
I just have to let off some steam.  Part III was W-O-W.  .

 

I am completely disillusioned with Wilson, have lost all respect for him.  WHERE IS HE? 

 


Keep reading.  My blood was boiling while I read it.  I can't discuss it with you until you finish Part III.  Read carefully, a lot of information in this part.  I read myself to sleep Sunday night because I had to finish this section but, of course, I fell asleep reading and wound up getting up in the middle of the night to read more.  Finally finished Part III while eating breakfast.

 


got tired of reading them. With this one, I have to put it down so that I can continue to breathe! I find myself holding my breath until I turn the page!

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Wilson left no room for the imagination of any one who read Piet's record.  "Extremely antisocial personality disorder.  No ability to emphathize.  Extensive reports, significant characteristics include impulsiveness, aggression, lack of respect for own and others' safety, lack of conscience."  Sven read this to Gren and Gren felt he had no other choice but to authorize the sniper fire.  This gnawed at me, the same that the killing at the flat and this prisoner gone mad had gnawed at Gren.  Something didn't seem right.  I really think he was set up by Wilson on both ends.  Just as Piet had his own sideline drug business, it just seems so easy that Wilson could be doing the same thing and Piet was used as an means to a personal end for Wilson.

Piet's lack of respect certainly turned a different corner when he told Jacobson  that "soon there would be an almighty explosion, that he should stay exactly where he was, that if he did that he would be protected and wouldn't die.".  He even took the time to cover him with the carpet and curtain.  Then we see the other side of Piet when he wires the hostage prisoner and blows him to bits when the diesel fuel ignited with the nitroglycerin.  Piet vs. Paula.  The difference, and it is only a rationalization, is that Jacobson served society whereas the prisoner was a menace to society.

 


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thewanderingjew
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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

Piet is an absolute genius. I don't know how he knew all of the information he needed to pull this off, but he planned and executed it perfectly. I would like to strangle the State Secretary. She and her cohorts were so cold and calculating. I asked myself, why is it the only one who doesn't question the "rightness" or "wrongness" of what they are doing, is a woman??? She seems so cold and calculating. I thought women were supposed to be more emotional, more nurturing.


I suppose that they simply thought that their lives were so much more important than anyone else's. Even those that finally saw the wrongness of what they were doing, did nothing to stop the wheels from moving. Oscarsson escaped into another reality, Goransson left the room and ran away. Poor Jacobson, he was the only one who refused to do the wrong thing and in the end, he was the hostage. What message does that send?

 

No one should ever be treated as Piet was, as totally dispensable, as a "thing" used to serve their purposes without regard for any human dignity, no matter what they do. Betrayal is still betrayal. They behaved no better than the worst criminal.


Rachel-K wrote:
In what ways were Piet Hoffmann's plans for entering prison working out exactly as he'd organized them?

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three


Unlike some of the officers Grens works with, who want to do the expedient, politically correct thing when it comes to solving crimes, Grens is the type of police officer that should be honored for his tenacity and beliefs in the justice system. He tries to do the right thing all the time. He may be a stickler for detail, he may be annoying and rude or brusque, and he may not give up, but what good is an officer who only gives 50% of himself to the task? I would rather they give 110%, like he does.


My heart breaks for Grens. His grief has been all consuming and he is trying so hard to confront it. I don't know why he is so afraid to face the death of his wife. He seems to be having a really difficult time with the grieving process. Perhaps if his third attempt to enter the cemetery is successful, he can come to terms with his sadness. Loss of a loved one is hard to deal with for anyone but he seems even more distressed. His thoughts about Hermansson make me believe that he might be able to start on the road to recovery soon. Perhaps if he can develop a relationship with her, as he imagines, as a father/daughter, it will be helpful to him.

 


Rachel-K wrote: 
We spend quite a lot of time in these chapters observing Ewert Grens. How does he compare to the other officers he works with and for?
 
Why does Grens attempt to go the cemetery twice in these chapters? Can you describe his struggle?
 
 
 

 

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Re: Three Seconds: Part Three

 

If I did not know Piet's background, I would think he was the most despicable man on G-d's earth. He seems to dispose of people too casually and shows nothing but an icy, evil persona. He can inflict pain without compunction. He seems to have no remorse for anything he has done in the past and does anything that he needs to in order to protect himself, in the present. I, too, would think he was a psychopath.

Rachel-K wrote:
 
How would you judge Piet as a man in these chapters if you'd had no picture of his life outside the prison walls before this?