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Inspired Bibliophile
thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
Registered: ‎12-18-2007

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

[ Edited ]

Reading this book made me understand how our intelligence officers and police officers often misinterpret information that we receive in the US, from various sources. It also made me question the tactics of our various in-house investigatory agencies. If the left hand doesn't tell the right hand what they are doing, they fight each other and come to wrong conclusions.

 

The idea that Danish and Swedish authorities didn't share information, wasn't that surprising to me, but, the idea that the same crime and criminals were being investigated in Sweden and yet the Danes did not inform the Swedes to clear their operation, did surprise me.  It smacks of some kind of espionage, which should be illegal. It made for a foolish loss of life and a harder investigation. It also created tremendous competition and animosity between groups that could accomplish so much more if they worked together instead of being at odds with each other.

 

 


Rachel-K wrote:
 

Do they even seem to be a part of the same organization?

 

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high96
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-03-2010
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 


high96 wrote:

 


literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


 

I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 

 


 

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 

"I don't like secrets! All this cooking, and reading, and TV watching, while we... read and cook! It's like you're involving me in crime, and I let you! Why do I let you?" --Emile in "Ratatouille"
Contributor
clodia2
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎11-03-2010

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


high96 wrote:

 


high96 wrote:

 


literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


 

I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 

 


 

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 

Inspired Contributor
MomOf2Turds
Posts: 46
Registered: ‎03-13-2010

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 

What do we know about the murder victim so far?

Jens Christian Toft (aka Carsten) was a Danish citizen born and raised in Sweden.  He served two years in prison for assault, perjury, and extortion.  He was recruited by the Danish crimes operation unit to infiltrate the Polish mafia group, fronted by the Wojtek Security International, which is the "company" Piet works for.  He recommended and backed other infiltrators for Wojtek.  His background story and his general demeanor was his demise.  He was too nervous, and it showed.  And when asked for his story, none of it was able to be confirmed.  So he blurted out that he was the police, when he was actually only an informant/infiltrator for them, which got him killed.  

 

We've observed two teams working for the Swedish Police: Ewert Grens with Mariana Hermansson and Sven Sundkvist, and Erik Wilson with Piet Hoffmann. Can you compare the ways each of these teams work, their characters, and what they do?

Team Grens - They are more "by the book" and more of an investigative unit, solving homicides and such.  They will not rest until they have reached the end of the line, whether it be solving the crime or exhausting all avenues before hanging it up as a cold case to be solved later.  They will not be deterred. 

Team Hoffmann - They play it by ear and are just trying to stay alive.  They do what they think needs to be done in order to get further up the ladder in the Polish Mafia in order to bring them down.  They will cover up the murder, and Piet's involvement in it, in order to obtain that goal.

 

Do they even seem to be a part of the same organization?

They do not seem to be the part of the same organization because they are working against each other.  Rather Wilson is working to keep Grens from figuring out what really happened at Vastmannagatan 79 so that he can keep Piet "safe" from prosecution until they are ready for him to go to jail.  I don't think that Grens will be put off for long by the "red herring" that Wilson planted (the shirt).  And I am also thinking that the blood on the shirt that isn't Carsten's is going to be Piet's so that he goes in longer with a "harder" background.

 

How do you compare Grens and Wilson as investigators?

Grens will sniff everything out, no matter how small it is, and will do what it takes, within the letter of the law, to solve a case.  Wilson, on the other hand, will do whatever it takes, including feeding false information to the lead detective, to keep his infiltrator out of the mix because it doesn't serve his purpose.

 

We also see an older and a younger set of officers in the police force. Grens, Nils, and Einarsson (from the basement) are examples of older officers. How do these two groups compare? Are their differences in attitudes and work styles that you see?

The older officers are more wise to the way things should work in the police world.  They have seen more, and they have become somewhat numb to what they see.  The younger ones, however, haven't quite gotten the stomach for it yet.  They haven't had a chance to become hardened to what they are going to end up seeing later on down the road.  They will take more chances and go out on more limbs than the old timers.  But the old timers are more likely to call in favors when needed, and to ask for help when they need it, and to go and get the information that they want.  They are less likely to be bullied when they are met with resistance when it comes to information that they need/want.

 

Why is there such an increase in the use of undercover civilians (CHIS) in the police force?

Like everyone before me has stated, they are more expendable, they are cheaper labor, and they are easier to build backgrounds for.  They also are a little more wise to the ways of the underworld than the cops are, and are therefore a little less likely to have their cover blown.

 

“A home without books is a body without soul.” ~ Marcus Tullius Cicero
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elaine_hf
Posts: 389
Registered: ‎01-05-2010
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 


clodia2 wrote:

high96 wrote:

 


high96 wrote:

 


literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


 

I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 

 


 

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 


I really don't trust Wilson, as I've stated elsewhere. But maybe we're being set up, maybe he's being characterized as less trustworthy than he is. I just think he's into too many different things, and maybe some of them are less than noble causes. As far as the long prison sentence, I agree, that makes Erik even more suspect. But I think back to Larsson's books and prison sentences, and I think that 'long' is based on the perspective of the reader. In the U.S., it would be interpreted as many years, but in other countries I don't think it's uncommon to get a much shorter sentence that may be viewed as 'long'. Any other thoughts on that?

 

‎"Peculiar travel suggestions are dancing lessons from God." -Bokonon
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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,276
Registered: ‎10-20-2008
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


elaine_hf wrote:

 


clodia2 wrote:

high96 wrote:

 


high96 wrote:

 


literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


 

I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 

 


 

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 


I really don't trust Wilson, as I've stated elsewhere. But maybe we're being set up, maybe he's being characterized as less trustworthy than he is. I just think he's into too many different things, and maybe some of them are less than noble causes. As far as the long prison sentence, I agree, that makes Erik even more suspect. But I think back to Larsson's books and prison sentences, and I think that 'long' is based on the perspective of the reader. In the U.S., it would be interpreted as many years, but in other countries I don't think it's uncommon to get a much shorter sentence that may be viewed as 'long'. Any other thoughts on that?

 


The 2 to 3 month sentence doesn't sound like he could get much done inside prison..I think Wilson is setting him up,,What choice 's does  Piet have,?,He has the recording,has all the Polish Mafia names.,he can bring them all down......and somewhere in back of my mind I think Grens will be involved in knowing everythng....He's not getting anywhere with The Danish PD,who are probably corrupt......At that point Piet might be on the run,    not in Prison..Any thoughts?I do agree our sentences here are far different for the same crimes elsewhere...

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
Distinguished Bibliophile
pen21
Posts: 3,648
Registered: ‎03-23-2009
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

elaine_hf wrote:

clodia2 wrote:

high96 wrote:

high96 wrote:

literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 


Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 


I really don't trust Wilson, as I've stated elsewhere. But maybe we're being set up, maybe he's being characterized as less trustworthy than he is. I just think he's into too many different things, and maybe some of them are less than noble causes. As far as the long prison sentence, I agree, that makes Erik even more suspect. But I think back to Larsson's books and prison sentences, and I think that 'long' is based on the perspective of the reader. In the U.S., it would be interpreted as many years, but in other countries I don't think it's uncommon to get a much shorter sentence that may be viewed as 'long'. Any other thoughts on that?


The 2 to 3 month sentence doesn't sound like he could get much done inside prison..I think Wilson is setting him up,,What choice 's does  Piet have,?,He has the recording,has all the Polish Mafia names.,he can bring them all down......and somewhere in back of my mind I think Grens will be involved in knowing everythng....He's not getting anywhere with The Danish PD,who are probably corrupt......At that point Piet might be on the run,    not in Prison..Any thoughts?I do agree our sentences here are far different for the same crimes elsewhere...


Piet being setup... that could happen. At least he is making the recording, but who does Piet trust to give the tape to. Zofia? I am still thinking Zofia must know or suspect something. So much for us to figure out as the story continues.

 

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dhaupt
Posts: 11,824
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 


high96 wrote:

 


high96 wrote:

 


literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


 

I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 

 


 

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


 

Oh I have lots of thoughts as to the "why", but I'll only raise my blood pressure as the conspiracy theory part of my brain takes over so I think I'll wait and see where the authors are taking us.

But yes I do think there's mayhem afoot.

Wordsmith
literature
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 
Wordsmith
literature
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


clodia2 wrote:

high96 wrote:

 


high96 wrote:

 


literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


 

I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 

 


 

 

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 


I agree with you, high 96 and clodio2, and it makes sense to me.  I thnk Wilson is setting him up but not necessarily only for the purported imprisonment but using him for his financial and strategic gain.  Wilson has said more than once that these infiltrators are expendable.  The only thing I like about Wilson is that when things seem to be going foul, he gives Paula the option of backing out.  Who knows, maybe that's part of Wilson's strategy, sort of like reverse pyschology.  This book is soooooo good.  One of the best  in the FL selections.  Thank you, Paul.

Wordsmith
literature
Posts: 499
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


pen21 wrote:

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

elaine_hf wrote:

clodia2 wrote:

high96 wrote:

high96 wrote:

literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 


Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 


I really don't trust Wilson, as I've stated elsewhere. But maybe we're being set up, maybe he's being characterized as less trustworthy than he is. I just think he's into too many different things, and maybe some of them are less than noble causes. As far as the long prison sentence, I agree, that makes Erik even more suspect. But I think back to Larsson's books and prison sentences, and I think that 'long' is based on the perspective of the reader. In the U.S., it would be interpreted as many years, but in other countries I don't think it's uncommon to get a much shorter sentence that may be viewed as 'long'. Any other thoughts on that?


The 2 to 3 month sentence doesn't sound like he could get much done inside prison..I think Wilson is setting him up,,What choice 's does  Piet have,?,He has the recording,has all the Polish Mafia names.,he can bring them all down......and somewhere in back of my mind I think Grens will be involved in knowing everythng....He's not getting anywhere with The Danish PD,who are probably corrupt......At that point Piet might be on the run,    not in Prison..Any thoughts?I do agree our sentences here are far different for the same crimes elsewhere...


Piet being setup... that could happen. At least he is making the recording, but who does Piet trust to give the tape to. Zofia? I am still thinking Zofia must know or suspect something. So much for us to figure out as the story continues.

 


I don't trust Zofia, nor do I care for her.  She just doesn't seem to connect with Piet nor with the boys.  Yes, she's concerned about the boys when they get sick, but other than that she seems to be a more custodial rather than nuturing parent.  I think Zofia is involved in a secret life also and none too nice.  I'm betting on Gren to be the central figure in helping Piet.  References have been made to the fact that he follows through.  We know he is getting on with his life, he put Anni's things in storage for future follow up so he now needs something to be completely ingrossed in.  I think next week's discussions will be very interesting.

Contributor
hawk4ever
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎11-03-2010
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

I really don't think that the short prison sentence will establish the long-term drug trade that they want to start.  Piet won't have anyone to turn the business over to within the 2-3 months.  I think that Erik may be setting him up.  That would be why Paula made it a point to record the conversation the top security officials.  Once he finds out that there is no way out, he will contact Zofia to find the recording and passports and expose what has happened.

Distinguished Bibliophile
Peppermill
Posts: 6,768
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

Somehow, my assessment of Erik is not in the mainstream here.  I think he has a tough, tough job that requires judgment calls many of us would avoid making (maybe not as dramatically as Einarsson's "drop out" avoidance!).  He told, not asked, Piet to not go ahead with the delivery that opens the novel.  Yet, Erik stood by Piet when it went wrong and eventually trusted that Piet told the truth about the murder -- granted that Erik did grill him and demand some evidence.   (A parallel with the grilling Piet gave the buyer before it dawned on Piet that the buyer was an infiltrator like himself -- and then it was too late to back off?)  Although it is true that the murder may make Piet seem more "expendable", Wilson does take the necessary steps with the power structure to get assurances of both accessibility and protection. 

 

Will they keep their word?  Will Piet?  Will Wilson?      Stay tuned.

"Seize the moments of happiness, love and be loved! That is the only reality in the world, all else is folly. It is the one thing we are interested in here." -- Leo Tolstoy
Inspired Bibliophile
Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,276
Registered: ‎10-20-2008
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


literature wrote:

pen21 wrote:

 


Vermontcozy wrote:

elaine_hf wrote:

clodia2 wrote:

high96 wrote:

high96 wrote:

literature wrote:

Mariusz kills the infiltrator with a shot to the temple.  There is no mention of anyone else getting hurt or bleeding at the crime scene.  The investigators find a shirt in the garbage bin near the scene of the crime, covered in blood and gunshot residue.  On page 121, Krantz explains to Grens about the smaller spots of blood found on the shirt, they've been analyzed and belong to someone else, possibly the murderer, but definitely not the victim.  I'm throwing this out to everyone because I feel like I've missed something. 


I don't think you have missed anything. The shirt was in Piet's hands and then given to Wilson who then planted it for Grens' team to find. Possibly Piet could have put someone else's blood on it. More likely to me that Wilson added someone else's blood to it to either (a.) incriminate a random criminal or (b.) frame Piet into a larger crime so he would be in prison longer.

 

When he is updating Piet's background on the Aspen computer system, Wilson is thinking to himself on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence and then take over enough power  to control the drug supply, the kind of force that was treated with respect inside."

 

This makes me suspect Wilson of making Piet into a hardened criminal to gain this respect. Busting him for a 2 to 3 month sentence for a drug infraction, which is what Piet thinks is going to happen, doesn't equal a long prison sentence or a force treated with respect to me. 


Does anyone else have any thoughts on the idea that Wilson may possibly be setting Piet up for a larger crime than drug possession with intent to sell? 


I'm of two minds with that.  The first is that his logic makes sense.  But, on the other hand, it feels deceptive, which makes me wonder if that's his true motive. 


I really don't trust Wilson, as I've stated elsewhere. But maybe we're being set up, maybe he's being characterized as less trustworthy than he is. I just think he's into too many different things, and maybe some of them are less than noble causes. As far as the long prison sentence, I agree, that makes Erik even more suspect. But I think back to Larsson's books and prison sentences, and I think that 'long' is based on the perspective of the reader. In the U.S., it would be interpreted as many years, but in other countries I don't think it's uncommon to get a much shorter sentence that may be viewed as 'long'. Any other thoughts on that?


The 2 to 3 month sentence doesn't sound like he could get much done inside prison..I think Wilson is setting him up,,What choice 's does  Piet have,?,He has the recording,has all the Polish Mafia names.,he can bring them all down......and somewhere in back of my mind I think Grens will be involved in knowing everythng....He's not getting anywhere with The Danish PD,who are probably corrupt......At that point Piet might be on the run,    not in Prison..Any thoughts?I do agree our sentences here are far different for the same crimes elsewhere...


Piet being setup... that could happen. At least he is making the recording, but who does Piet trust to give the tape to. Zofia? I am still thinking Zofia must know or suspect something. So much for us to figure out as the story continues.

 


I don't trust Zofia, nor do I care for her.  She just doesn't seem to connect with Piet nor with the boys.  Yes, she's concerned about the boys when they get sick, but other than that she seems to be a more custodial rather than nuturing parent.  I think Zofia is involved in a secret life also and none too nice.  I'm betting on Gren to be the central figure in helping Piet.  References have been made to the fact that he follows through.  We know he is getting on with his life, he put Anni's things in storage for future follow up so he now needs something to be completely ingrossed in.  I think next week's discussions will be very interesting.


Piet has secrets even Erik doesn't about...His value is enormous to both sides..Erik is his "Handler" but Piet is the one who is embedded..Can't wait for Rachels questions on Monday..Will need strong coffee for  next week, my fellow sleuths...Just one more thought..Could this be Global.?.With Erik being at FLECT,who is he really working for.?.

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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Vermontcozy
Posts: 5,276
Registered: ‎10-20-2008
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


Peppermill wrote:

Somehow, my assessment of Erik is not in the mainstream here.  I think he has a tough, tough job that requires judgment calls many of us would avoid making (maybe not as dramatically as Einarsson's "drop out" avoidance!).  He told, not asked, Piet to not go ahead with the delivery that opens the novel.  Yet, Erik stood by Piet when it went wrong and eventually trusted that Piet told the truth about the murder -- granted that Erik did grill him and demand some evidence.   (A parallel with the grilling Piet gave the buyer before it dawned on Piet that the buyer was an infiltrator like himself -- and then it was too late to back off?)  Although it is true that the murder may make Piet seem more "expendable", Wilson does take the necessary steps with the power structure to get assurances of both accessibility and protection. 

 

Will they keep their word?  Will Piet?  Will Wilson?      Stay tuned.


 Hello All...Monday...I will ask "Our Coffee Angel "to post some Coffee,Tea,Espresso,some sweets.If she is not too busy.......We will need it..Even though the Interview with Anders and Borge was great..I know we have our own inquisitive Bners here..Great Group  .Pepper ..I just feel They all have their own Agenda's....Why ask him to leave the room?...

Kindness,I've discovered,is everything in life...Issac Bashevis Singer
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thewanderingjew
Posts: 2,247
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 

When I thought about the murder victim, I got to thinking about who the murderer was and at first, I even entertained thoughts that the murderer was a plant too, undercover, as well, because he wasn't found in the police database. Yet, if they don't share information, he probably wouldn't be and his behavior was too ruthless to have pointed toward him being anything but a mindless brute, so I gave up on that theory. Apparently, he is of Polish descent, part of the Polish mafia. He is quick to react without thinking and has no qualms about taking human life. He is really a killing machine whose purpose is only to protect "his mob" and his "delivery".
The question that keeps coming back to me is what is it that makes anyone become such a creature?


Rachel-K wrote:
How do you compare Grens and Wilson as investigators?

 

Contributor
redfraggle_98
Posts: 14
Registered: ‎11-03-2010

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 


tmcb wrote:

I think that civilians are used more in undercover assignments because they are expendable. If something goes wrong while undercover, the police can claim no involvement since the would be no record of police going undercover. It serves as a nice cover up to a situation that doesn't go as planned. For example, say it was piet that was murdered at the begining. The police could come in say that piet was an ex-con and had taken up with the mafia and it was a drug deal gone bad. Then it wouldn't reflect bad on the police.


This is a great point.  Using the civilian informants is definitely a win-win for the police force.  If it goes wrong, they can deny all responsibility.  If it goes right, they can take all the credit for strategically placing the informant in the right place at the right time.  It really makes me question who the good guys and bad guys will end up being in this book.

 

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redfraggle_98
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

 


I don't trust Zofia, nor do I care for her.  She just doesn't seem to connect with Piet nor with the boys.  Yes, she's concerned about the boys when they get sick, but other than that she seems to be a more custodial rather than nuturing parent.  I think Zofia is involved in a secret life also and none too nice.


This was an interesting point.  I hope we can find out more about Zofia as we read ahead.

 

Distinguished Correspondent
JaneM
Posts: 152
Registered: ‎02-01-2008

Re: Three Seconds: Police Work


hawk4ever wrote:

I really don't think that the short prison sentence will establish the long-term drug trade that they want to start.  Piet won't have anyone to turn the business over to within the 2-3 months.  I think that Erik may be setting him up.  That would be why Paula made it a point to record the conversation the top security officials.  Once he finds out that there is no way out, he will contact Zofia to find the recording and passports and expose what has happened.


There is a mis-understanding for those who think Piet will be getting a short sentence.  It states on page 110 that "In two weeks' time, Piet would be given a long prison sentence" and again on  page 111 that he will be caught with three kilos "Enough for a fast-track trial and a long sentence in a high security prison."   It is Piet's intent that he do his job and be extracated from prison within 2-3 months.  He's not going to turn the business over to anyone.  The plan is for there to be a major bust and put the Polish mafia out of business. 

Jane M.
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JoanieGranola
Posts: 172
Registered: ‎11-11-2009
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Re: Three Seconds: Police Work

What do we know about the murder victim so far? We know that he plays a similar role as Piet in another organization -- he's a mole working with the police. Whether he's legitimately a police officer working undercover or he's a criminal working with the police remains to be seen.

 

We've observed two teams working for the Swedish Police: Ewert Grens with Mariana Hermansson and Sven Sundkvist, and Erik Wilson with Piet Hoffmann. Can you compare the ways each of these teams work, their characters, and what they do?  

Do they even seem to be a part of the same organization?

 

How do you compare Grens and Wilson as investigators? Grens is an investigator who is very thorough in what he does and always wants a solution. Wilson, also thorough, investigates crime in order to create plausible profiles for infiltrators. To me, they're like apples and oranges -- while they both may work for the same side, they work from different angles. One is searching for the truth and the other is trying to hide a truth.

 

We also see an older and a younger set of officers in the police force. Grens, Nils, and Einarsson (from the basement) are examples of older officers. How do these two groups compare? Are their differences in attitudes and work styles that you see? "Old School" officers are often set in their ways and do not handle change well and tend to not accept it under the premises of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." The younger officers have been trained differently than the older ones, and they tend to look at the bigger picture and embrace change.

 

Why is there such an increase in the use of undercover civilians (CHIS) in the police force? I don't remember if this was explained or not, but I think it's because the police can't afford to lose onen of their own should it come down to that. Criminals can infiltrate criminal societies and get the "protection" from the police when they've served their purpose. I think the unspoken sentiment here is that police officers are trained as police officers and no matter how well they are trained, they can't think and act like criminals.