Later Chapters and Whole Novel: Winter and Spring

[JaneM]

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DSaff wrote:

Thanks for the positive comment. I can't wait to get further into it.

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jabrkeKB wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

I have had a hard time picking up other books since finishing this one. It left me so sad and angry that nothing seemed to fit. But, I just finished Natural Born Charmer and am starting The Help. whew!

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I read The Help with my neighborhood book club and we all agreed it was one of the best books we had read.

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I am reading An Alphabetical Life - non fiction - an autobiography of a woman who reps books for publishers and called on all the great independent book stores (no criticism of B&N intended!).  It is so matter of fact and interesting that it is a great counter balance to the sadness of UTUS.

Jane M.

Alphabetical Life  a

[Popper19]

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lhays wrote:

What do I think is going to happen to the survivors?

I think that Petro is going to be just like Stefan. He wanted to be just like him. Lesya might have a better life, hopefully she will be safe at the church. 

Maria and the children will survive. All of the children have had to grow up way too fast. Myron is a young man even at 14. He knows how to take care of a place. They will find someway to make it. 

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I agree with you on what will happent to the survivors.

[jenniferu]

I found myself a bit sad at the ending -- I can't say that I was really surprised with where it went but it was just a very sad situation.  It was not a surprise to see Teodor's reaction to having to go back to jail and I can't say that I was surprised that he would kill himself over that.  If he had not found Anna right away I wonder if he would have collected himself and still have done what he did.   He seems to be a man who had a hard time communicating and accepting his value.  I think he felt so disappointed in what he saw as the betrayal that was going to lead to him going back to jail that he was not able to see that his family would be better off with him around.

He did not seem able to accept and take responsibility for his part and his actions and I think killing himself made it so that he wouldn't have to deal with what he did to Anna.  He was a simple man, flawed, but with a good heart.  It was a very heavy-weighing ending to the book.

[CathyB]

Donna, I agree. I too think that the possibility of Stefan enetring her life again was the main reason for not taking the children.

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DSaff wrote:

I agree that Lesya would have loved to do something to her mother, but as I said in my earlier post, think her killing of Happiness was all the rage she felt. Her mother was a big part of that - turning away from her because of her foot, making her do all the work, giving in to Stefan, ......

I wasn't really surprised that Maria didn't take in Lesya and Petro. She had enough children to raise, and there was no legal paperwork to give her custody or legal standing. But, the biggest reason I think she didn't try to take them was because of Stefan. Who knew when he might pop back into their lives? Maria didn't need that aggravation!

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kpatton wrote:

While reading some of the responses in this thread, I have two questions for the group.

Could Lesya's killing of Happiness be metaphorical for her inability to do anything to her mother?  Anna was someone who didn't want either or her children, Happiness wouldn't lay eggs.  Does Lesya know that Anna has tried to kill her unborn child as Happiness breaks the eggs of the other chickens?  The fact that Lesya killed Happiness and then didn't use the chicken for food had to mean something more than just being practical that she had a chicken that didn't lay and was breaking eggs.

Second question.  I was surprised and saddened that Maria didn't take Lesya and Petra into her family.  After all of the time the past two years while Teodor was in prison that she cared for them as if they were her own, and now she abandoned them.  Was anyone else surprised about this?

Kathy

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[DSaff]

another one for the pile....... Thanks! 

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JaneM wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

Thanks for the positive comment. I can't wait to get further into it.

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jabrkeKB wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

I have had a hard time picking up other books since finishing this one. It left me so sad and angry that nothing seemed to fit. But, I just finished Natural Born Charmer and am starting The Help. whew!

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I read The Help with my neighborhood book club and we all agreed it was one of the best books we had read.

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I am reading An Alphabetical Life - non fiction - an autobiography of a woman who reps books for publishers and called on all the great independent book stores (no criticism of B&N intended!).  It is so matter of fact and interesting that it is a great counter balance to the sadness of UTUS.

Jane M.

Alphabetical Life  a

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[kpatton]

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nfmgirl wrote:



Little Leysa tries and tries. Poor Happiness. She gives up all hope for ever finding happiness, and does away with it in it's physical form. It is the moment when all hope for the future is lost.

I found it really interesting that near the end there is a sequence where Teodor and Maria have gotten ready for a party, and they talk of how good they look in their finery, and how nice the house smells and all the children are doing their chores, and things sound so idyllic. Yet when the police show up, he notes that the children look malnourished and dirty, and the house smells. It sort of shows how you create your own idea of happiness and prosperity. To a poor family, things were really good. From the outside, things looked really bad, and they were just a starving family living in squalor.

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I just wanted to say how much I liked your observations.  I agree with Leysa losing all thoughts of happiness.  I just hadn't put it together in quite this way.

What good observations that just when it looked like Teodor and Maria had everything going for them, their world was about to fall apart.

Thanks for your comments.

Kathy

[KathyS]

Gisela, you're right...life isn't always fair.  Life isn't all tied up with a fancy bow, and smelling good.  We all wanted Stefan to get his just desserts, but it was profoundly smart of Shandi to leave all of these loose ends...giving the reader much to think about, and comtemplate as to the outcome of all of these characters.  Who knows, Stefan may show up as the villain, again, and raise havoc until someone DOES do him in!  Hopefully the police!  Or he may wander in a snow storm, and turn up as a popsicle.....Or he may just die from the obvious, drink.  Whatever happens, I hope the scumbag leaves his kids alone!!

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Sunltcloud wrote:

IMHO. Life isn't fair. And the job of the writer of a novel is not, to create happy endings, but to distill the essence of reality into a work of art. Mission accomplished.

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aprilh wrote:

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ethel55 wrote:

With all the death at the end, I don't know if I thought it just that Stefan got to just run off...

We had been seeing cracks in Anna's mind since the beginning of the story, her affinity for the wolves was worrying, but I sure didn't see that coming.

I think with Myron's help, the family will be able to resettle and perhaps farm again.

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I agree. Stefan shouldn't have been left unharmed. In my opinion, he was the one who started this whole mess. He raped and abused his wife to the point where she was only a shell of her former self. She could barely function on her own let alone take care of her children. Stefan also started the feud between Anna and Teodor over the land, making her sign letters saying she never agreed to let Teodor stay on the land. Then one night he just up and leaves. Granted I'm glad he was out of the picture, but having nothing happen to him just doesn't seem fair after we learn what happens to the baby, Anna and Teodor.

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[scnole]

I read "The Help" a couple of months ago.   It was great.  I think you will enjoy it.   I'm also having a difficult time with reading another book since I finished "Under the Broken Sky" - any suggestions?

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DSaff wrote:

Thanks for the positive comment. I can't wait to get further into it.

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jabrkeKB wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

I have had a hard time picking up other books since finishing this one. It left me so sad and angry that nothing seemed to fit. But, I just finished Natural Born Charmer and am starting The Help. whew!

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I read The Help with my neighborhood book club and we all agreed it was one of the best books we had read.

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[KathyS]

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momoftwinsMM wrote:

The ending of the novel overturned my emotions. It made me think hard about my own sense of morality, made me question what I would do in such a desperate situation.

I was absolutely horrified when Anna left the baby out for the wolves. This part of the novel made me outraged and so sad. It was obvious that she wasn't so mentally unstable to believe that she had done the right thing; otherwise, she would not have lied to Teo that the baby was already dead. Sickening.

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Mom...I couldn't believe Anna's actions, either, at first.  I felt the same way as you, but I truly believe, in Anna's mind, her lie wasn't a lie.  I believe she felt that this baby was already dead, or didn't belong to her, the moment it was conceived. 

The whole process of what she did with the baby, was as if she was using this child as a sacrifice to the coyotes, as prohetic justice of what they had given to her, or Stepan had done to them, by killing one of them....she was giving back.  I'm only guessing, but with her constant connecting with these wild animals, feeling closer to them than to her own children, it made sense to me that this child should belong to them....in Anna's mind.  She lived in a world of her own, and to understand it would take some hard therapy and drugs!

[scnole]

Jane - I agree with you.   Lesya had so much to endure.    And, she was so frightened of her father touching her.   I feel so much emotion for this poor child.    I am so glad Stefan left before he molested her.   Stefan's leaving is the best thing that could happen - especially for Leysa.

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JaneM wrote:

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rkubie wrote:

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Immortal-Spirit wrote:

Stefan was right in one thing. Leaving was the best thing he could ever do. 

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Yes,  that's a question I've had for the group, too. Was stealing the family's money and bolting without a goodbye the best thing Stefan did in this whole novel?

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It was the best thing he did because he walked away from incest and molesting his own daughter.  The consequences of that action would have been worse than stealing and leaving which he had done many times before.

Jane M.

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[KathyS]

Debbie,

I'm just wondering, and trying to take a different look at Teodor's actions...by killing his sister.  Here are some questions in my mind.

What if he was in a lucid state, when he pulled the trigger?  If he knew the consequences of his return to prison, leaving the family again, and knowing what Anna might further do to Petro and Lesya, and knowing Stefan was still dangerously wandering around, and what might happen to his own family if he were gone away again.....

.....AND if he couldn't keep it from the law that Anna killed her child, maybe he felt it was better that Anna die, and not be sentenced to die, or go to prison, as he himself would.  I wonder if justice was served, only not by the hands of the law, but by Teodor.  He killed himself, to save the law the trouble, and even though killing himself put shame on his family, he knew they couldn't stay where they were, anyway....and moving on was, in the end, the only solution....without him.  Maybe it did take an act of courage to make those decisions for his family, and for Anna's family.

Just some random thoughts....

[aprilh]

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KathyS wrote:

Debbie,

I'm just wondering, and trying to take a different look at Teodor's actions...by killing his sister.  Here are some questions in my mind.

What if he was in a lucid state, when he pulled the trigger?  If he knew the consequences of his return to prison, leaving the family again, and knowing what Anna might further do to Petro and Lesya, and knowing Stefan was still dangerously wandering around, and what might happen to his own family if he were gone away again.....

.....AND if he couldn't keep it from the law that Anna killed her child, maybe he felt it was better that Anna die, and not be sentenced to die, or go to prison, as he himself would.  I wonder if justice was served, only not by the hands of the law, but by Teodor.  He killed himself, to save the law the trouble, and even though killing himself put shame on his family, he knew they couldn't stay where they were, anyway....and moving on was, in the end, the only solution....without him.  Maybe it did take an act of courage to make those decisions for his family, and for Anna's family.

Just some random thoughts....

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Interesting thoughts! Thanks for making me see another possibilty for Teodor's actions!

[KathyS]

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DSaff wrote:

Well, I wasn't happy with the ending and could have done without all of the graphic violence, but I will try to make sense of what I am feeling as I answer these questions.

First, I will say that I still love Teodore. What he did was wrong on so many levels. The man was broken, probably more broken than any of us thought at first. Prison had changed him and I think he worked at getting his life back, but....  He couldn't get past his sister giving her baby to the wolves, and he couldn't get past thinking she was sending him back to jail. For what? A tiny bit of home-made brew that was for him to enjoy. Who knows what he would have done if he knew it was Petro? I don't think he would have killed him though. Something broke in him when he saw how easily his sister could kill her baby. I thought he was going to kill her right then, and he might have if the kids weren't there. Sadly, his family suffers the consequences. Lesya and Petro are sent to different places to live, and his children lost their father. Maria was tasked with bringing a new baby into the world and with taking her family to a new place to begin again. Pride can be both good and bad and I think we see both in Teodore and Maria.

The land dispute was interesting. It seemed like they were letting both parties know what was going on so that some resolution could happen. Something told me they didn't trust Stefan and that they hoped that blood ties would solve the dispute. Another wrong move!

I'm sure others will disagree with me, but I can't fathom how Anna could do what she did to her daughter. Yes, I know she was abused. She didn't want the baby. She felt a connection to the wolves that Stefan endangered. But, this precious baby. No excuse. I think it was murder and felt Teodore's rage with him. Amazing that Anna must have felt something after because while she kept saying that the baby had died before she was born (metaphorically), she wouldn't clean the box the baby had slept in. This part of the book made me cry and made me angry. 

I honestly felt no hope for Maria and her children as they left. She had no one to help her. Yes, she is a strong woman and probably made it with the help of her children, but without any real claim to land or family, what could she do? The only hope is the seed and the dirt that are taken along as they leave.

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Donna, I know you had a hard time with this story, and it wasn't easy on me to read, either. 

I want you to feel hope in Maria and her family.  She was always the strength and inspiration in this story, and I think this is why Shandi left us with her.  Even though she has the grain, as I called it her mustard seed of hope, she may never have to use it.  The first thought I think we all had was, where is she going to get the land, and the help to plow it, and go through all of what she had already gone through, and maybe never own the land or see it succeed in the end. 

But, she may head for a large city, and work as a domestic, or seamstress, or baker....we just don't know, but I do have hope that she will lead her children to a better life.  I too loved Teodor, and I hope I am right in saying it did take an act of courage to do what he did.  The kids will have to live with it, and I hope, if Shandi does write a sequel to this story, it will come out what happened, or worded in a way that we aren't going to hate Teodor for what he did.  I know I won't hate him, because I have already resolved his actions in my mind.

Kathy S.

[KathyS]

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JaneM wrote:

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rkubie wrote:

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Immortal-Spirit wrote:

Stefan was right in one thing. Leaving was the best thing he could ever do. 

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Yes,  that's a question I've had for the group, too. Was stealing the family's money and bolting without a goodbye the best thing Stefan did in this whole novel?

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It was the best thing he did because he walked away from incest and molesting his own daughter.  The consequences of that action would have been worse than stealing and leaving which he had done many times before.

Jane M.

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I think we were given the impression that Stefan was doing the right thing by stealing the money and  leaving his family.  But the bottom line is, he's a thief and a coward.  He knew what his needs where, and they were drink and sex.   He stole from his family....leaving you heaving a sigh of relief, and thankfulness that he is gone, and leaving Lesya alone in the process.

Yes, he had urges about his daughter that sickened me, as many, but he knew he couldn't get away with it with Petro sleeping beside her, and she was also fully dressed....he couldn't get away with it, and he knew it, and he couldn't wait for the next opportunity to try....His desires were taking over....His needs were urgent.  He came first, as always.  Stealing the money and leaving, was the selfish way he showed us he could care less about any of his family.  Yes, I was glad he left, but in the end, I knew when he would be down in his "luck", he would return to rape the family again.

Lesya knew what her anger could do, and I have the feeling if he ever got close enough to try anything with her, again, she'd kill him, as she did her chicken.  He takes, and takes and takes, and there is only so much that some people can tollerate.  I just hope when his money runs out, he doesn't go looking for her, and if he does, I hope justice will be served.

Message Edited by KathyS on 08-18-2009 05:02 PM

[DSaff]

I needed something with humor, and Natural Born Charmer worked for me. It is not my normal reading, but it was exactly what I needed. If this doesn't hit you, try something that will make you laugh. That should help. 

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scnole wrote:
I read "The Help" a couple of months ago.   It was great.  I think you will enjoy it.   I'm also having a difficult time with reading another book since I finished "Under the Broken Sky" - any suggestions?

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DSaff wrote:

Thanks for the positive comment. I can't wait to get further into it.

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jabrkeKB wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

I have had a hard time picking up other books since finishing this one. It left me so sad and angry that nothing seemed to fit. But, I just finished Natural Born Charmer and am starting The Help. whew!

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I read The Help with my neighborhood book club and we all agreed it was one of the best books we had read.

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[DSaff]

Interesting.....

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KathyS wrote:

Debbie,

I'm just wondering, and trying to take a different look at Teodor's actions...by killing his sister.  Here are some questions in my mind.

What if he was in a lucid state, when he pulled the trigger?  If he knew the consequences of his return to prison, leaving the family again, and knowing what Anna might further do to Petro and Lesya, and knowing Stefan was still dangerously wandering around, and what might happen to his own family if he were gone away again.....

.....AND if he couldn't keep it from the law that Anna killed her child, maybe he felt it was better that Anna die, and not be sentenced to die, or go to prison, as he himself would.  I wonder if justice was served, only not by the hands of the law, but by Teodor.  He killed himself, to save the law the trouble, and even though killing himself put shame on his family, he knew they couldn't stay where they were, anyway....and moving on was, in the end, the only solution....without him.  Maybe it did take an act of courage to make those decisions for his family, and for Anna's family.

Just some random thoughts....

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[DSaff]

Nice thoughts, Kathy. Thank you 

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KathyS wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

Well, I wasn't happy with the ending and could have done without all of the graphic violence, but I will try to make sense of what I am feeling as I answer these questions.

First, I will say that I still love Teodore. What he did was wrong on so many levels. The man was broken, probably more broken than any of us thought at first. Prison had changed him and I think he worked at getting his life back, but....  He couldn't get past his sister giving her baby to the wolves, and he couldn't get past thinking she was sending him back to jail. For what? A tiny bit of home-made brew that was for him to enjoy. Who knows what he would have done if he knew it was Petro? I don't think he would have killed him though. Something broke in him when he saw how easily his sister could kill her baby. I thought he was going to kill her right then, and he might have if the kids weren't there. Sadly, his family suffers the consequences. Lesya and Petro are sent to different places to live, and his children lost their father. Maria was tasked with bringing a new baby into the world and with taking her family to a new place to begin again. Pride can be both good and bad and I think we see both in Teodore and Maria.

The land dispute was interesting. It seemed like they were letting both parties know what was going on so that some resolution could happen. Something told me they didn't trust Stefan and that they hoped that blood ties would solve the dispute. Another wrong move!

I'm sure others will disagree with me, but I can't fathom how Anna could do what she did to her daughter. Yes, I know she was abused. She didn't want the baby. She felt a connection to the wolves that Stefan endangered. But, this precious baby. No excuse. I think it was murder and felt Teodore's rage with him. Amazing that Anna must have felt something after because while she kept saying that the baby had died before she was born (metaphorically), she wouldn't clean the box the baby had slept in. This part of the book made me cry and made me angry. 

I honestly felt no hope for Maria and her children as they left. She had no one to help her. Yes, she is a strong woman and probably made it with the help of her children, but without any real claim to land or family, what could she do? The only hope is the seed and the dirt that are taken along as they leave.

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Donna, I know you had a hard time with this story, and it wasn't easy on me to read, either. 

I want you to feel hope in Maria and her family.  She was always the strength and inspiration in this story, and I think this is why Shandi left us with her.  Even though she has the grain, as I called it her mustard seed of hope, she may never have to use it.  The first thought I think we all had was, where is she going to get the land, and the help to plow it, and go through all of what she had already gone through, and maybe never own the land or see it succeed in the end. 

But, she may head for a large city, and work as a domestic, or seamstress, or baker....we just don't know, but I do have hope that she will lead her children to a better life.  I too loved Teodor, and I hope I am right in saying it did take an act of courage to do what he did.  The kids will have to live with it, and I hope, if Shandi does write a sequel to this story, it will come out what happened, or worded in a way that we aren't going to hate Teodor for what he did.  I know I won't hate him, because I have already resolved his actions in my mind.

Kathy S.

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[Rachel-K]

We should probably take other books out of this particular thread. Maybe we could start a "what we're reading next" thread in the upcoming week?

(But I do want to thank Jane for this one. I'm doing a book talk at the library for a visiting book club tomorrow, and this looks like a great nonfiction title to throw on top of the pile!)

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JaneM wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

Thanks for the positive comment. I can't wait to get further into it.

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jabrkeKB wrote:

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DSaff wrote:

I have had a hard time picking up other books since finishing this one. It left me so sad and angry that nothing seemed to fit. But, I just finished Natural Born Charmer and am starting The Help. whew!

---

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I read The Help with my neighborhood book club and we all agreed it was one of the best books we had read.

---

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I am reading An Alphabetical Life - non fiction - an autobiography of a woman who reps books for publishers and called on all the great independent book stores (no criticism of B&N intended!).  It is so matter of fact and interesting that it is a great counter balance to the sadness of UTUS.

Jane M.

Alphabetical Life  a

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[kaylami]

Well, I feel a little behind on the discussion.  I just finished the book tonight...getting kids ready for Back-to-School and squeezing in those last family outings made it hard to sit down to the computer.  I've been reading a few of the posts and it seems like all my thoughts have already been posted for me.

I just want to say "WOW!".  I keep telling my husband that it's amazing how such a tragic and sad story was so fascinating.  I just kept rooting for the whole family and wanted to take a basket of food to them.   I think I was hoping Anna would die in childbirth and Teodor & Maria would get the land and kids. (My own happy ending.)  I wish I knew the outcome of Maria and the children.  I know they have many struggles ahead, but I think Maria, with the help of the older children, will find a way to survive.  I also think in the end it was good that Lesya was separated from Petro.  He was trained to be abusive and would have treated Lesya horribly her whole life.  I can't help but think that any other living situation will be better than it was with her own family. 

I could go on and on, but as I said most of my thoughts have already been expressed by others.  Thank you Ms. Mitchell for a fabulous novel.  Your writing is so beautiful.  It was so easy to feel, smell and see everything you describe.   I've grown attached to the characters and will miss them.

[Zeal]

Interesting point about Petro and Lesya being separated.  I had so hoped that some of Lesya's good qualities would rub off on Petro, but alas his tato was more influential (which makes sense, but one can hope).  Most times I would think that it would benefit siblings to stay together, but in this case, you might be right.

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kaylami wrote:

Well, I feel a little behind on the discussion.  I just finished the book tonight...getting kids ready for Back-to-School and squeezing in those last family outings made it hard to sit down to the computer.  I've been reading a few of the posts and it seems like all my thoughts have already been posted for me.

I just want to say "WOW!".  I keep telling my husband that it's amazing how such a tragic and sad story was so fascinating.  I just kept rooting for the whole family and wanted to take a basket of food to them.   I think I was hoping Anna would die in childbirth and Teodor & Maria would get the land and kids. (My own happy ending.)  I wish I knew the outcome of Maria and the children.  I know they have many struggles ahead, but I think Maria, with the help of the older children, will find a way to survive.  I also think in the end it was good that Lesya was separated from Petro.  He was trained to be abusive and would have treated Lesya horribly her whole life.  I can't help but think that any other living situation will be better than it was with her own family. 

I could go on and on, but as I said most of my thoughts have already been expressed by others.  Thank you Ms. Mitchell for a fabulous novel.  Your writing is so beautiful.  It was so easy to feel, smell and see everything you describe.   I've grown attached to the characters and will miss them.

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