Later Chapters and Whole Novel: Winter and Spring

[dreamspinner_]

Hi everyone! Wow, this is my first time to post and my first time to join the First Look Book Club. I am so blown away reading everyone's thoughtful and intelligent analyses. Please be gentle as I put down my own two cents on the table...

I think the key for me to understand the book was the writer's note at the end that the story was about "the fine line between those who break and those who don't." Like kpatton said upthread, animals play a huge role in the story, and Stefan's line "This life ain't fit for an animal" is something to ponder.

I think the coyotes represent the cruelty and bestiality present in humanity - especially in their quest for survival. For me the book's central question was: How do you keep your humanity in times of such hardship? For Anna, she broke, surrendering her baby to the wild coyotes. For Teodor, he fought as hard as he can, but as many have commented, he just reached his breaking point. He snapped and committed arguably the most savage act possible: killing his own blood.

In the same way, I think there's also significance in how Teodor's worst nightmare is pacing back and forth in his prison cell - like a caged animal. I think, for him, to be a man and to be human is to be free and independent under the open sky - in control of his own destiny. Sadly, circumstances prevented him from achieving this.

The book is definitely gloomy and - let's face it - a downer. But it is well-written and gripping. It is definitely thought-provoking about how humans either break or don't. Anna and Teodor broke; Maria and, weirdly enough, Stefan did not. Maria found the strength to carry on for her family (remember what she did the first time Teodor was imprisoned?),  while Stefan (although a thoroughly despicable and wretched man) eventually did find enough "decency" within himself to walk away from his family for their own good.

Wow. I never thought I'd call Stefan decent, but there you go. Hope this gives you guys more food for thought. (Not that there was a lack of any...)

[Fozzie]

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rkubie wrote:

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Immortal-Spirit wrote:

Stefan was right in one thing. Leaving was the best thing he could ever do. 

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Yes,  that's a question I've had for the group, too. Was stealing the family's money and bolting without a goodbye the best thing Stefan did in this whole novel?

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Yes, assuming he stayed away.

[Fozzie]

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kpatton wrote:

Second question.  I was surprised and saddened that Maria didn't take Lesya and Petra into her family.  After all of the time the past two years while Teodor was in prison that she cared for them as if they were her own, and now she abandoned them.  Was anyone else surprised about this?

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For some reason, I wasn't surprised.  However, I can't explain why.  I think feeling the emotions of the situation at the time I was reading the book made me feel it was the inevitable thing to have happen.

[Fozzie]

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nfmgirl wrote:
I found it really interesting that near the end there is a sequence where Teodor and Maria have gotten ready for a party, and they talk of how good they look in their finery, and how nice the house smells and all the children are doing their chores, and things sound so idyllic. Yet when the police show up, he notes that the children look malnourished and dirty, and the house smells. It sort of shows how you create your own idea of happiness and prosperity. To a poor family, things were really good. From the outside, things looked really bad, and they were just a starving family living in squalor.

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Yes, I noted this too.  I love books told from multiple perspectives for this type of reason.

[babzilla41]

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Fozzie wrote:

In this heartbreaking chapter, we see, first Lesya, then Anna, then Theo break down and kill. Can you talk about what has driven each of them to do it? How is it possible that they are each capable of it? Are they each aware of what they are doing?

I could never have predicted the outcome of this story. I was shocked when Lesya killed her chick. When I read that she had killed it on the same day that Anna’s baby “disappeared,” at least I understood the trigger that caused her actions. “You have a job. You have a duty. You don’t get to live for free.” Lesya realized the frailty of life, the way in which she may be considered disposable if Anna decided that Lesya was no longer useful and Lesya took out those feelings on her chick. I found the scene to be scary and sad at the same time.

I was not surprised that Anna killed her baby. In essence, she had made attempts on its life while it was in the womb. The description of what Theo sees was outstanding and heartbreaking.

I knew that Theodor could no go back to prison. We see that as he paced in the animal stalls. Consequently, I am not surprised that he killed himself rather than go to prison. However, I was shocked that he killed Anna. He blamed her for sending him back to prison, and since he couldn’t bear to go back to prison, maybe he considered killing her an “eye for an eye” type of thing --- she killed him by turning him in and so he would kill her too.

Shandi’s superb writing skills are evident in the way she lets the reader know how wrong Theo’s assumption that Anna turned him in is. On page 332, Petro thinks to himself, “He didn’t mean to see the secret in the wall, but Ivan stole his hat.” Of course, then we, the readers, rethink the scene where Petro talks to policemen driving down the road and rework what really happened in our own minds. Too bad that Theo didn’t have the same information we readers were able to deduce.

Do you feel you have any sense for the possible outcome of any of the surviving characters? Is there anyone you might make a prediction for?

The ending was ultimately uplifting. The remaining family will survive.

Message Edited by Fozzie on 08-21-2009 01:09 PM

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Fozzie:

I didn't recognize the disappearance of Anna's baby as the "trigger" for Lesya killing Happiness.  Good thought.  I agree that it most likely triggered the feelings in Lesya that if Anna could get rid of something so perfect, she certainly wouldn't have second thoughts in getting rid of her imperfect/deformed daughter?  No matter how hard Lesya worked, no matter what she did, she was never good enough, for either her mother or father.  How horrible for a ten year old child to have to live with those feelings; no wonder she wanted to hide until she disappeared.

[babzilla41]

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Fozzie wrote:

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nfmgirl wrote:
I found it really interesting that near the end there is a sequence where Teodor and Maria have gotten ready for a party, and they talk of how good they look in their finery, and how nice the house smells and all the children are doing their chores, and things sound so idyllic. Yet when the police show up, he notes that the children look malnourished and dirty, and the house smells. It sort of shows how you create your own idea of happiness and prosperity. To a poor family, things were really good. From the outside, things looked really bad, and they were just a starving family living in squalor.

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Yes, I noted this too.  I love books told from multiple perspectives for this type of reason.

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When reading about how good Teodore and Maria looked in their finery and how nice the house smelled, you easily forgot their poverty until sentences later it smacked you in the face and reminded you that they were, as nfmgirl writes, "just a starving family living in squalor".   Makes you wonder what their lives were like before, if they saw this part of their lives as being "good".

[nicole21WA]

So the little brat decided to be just like Daddy and snitch on the family.  Sure hope that quarter was worth it.  I do wonder why Teo thought it was his sister though.  Yes, she knew about the hiding spot, but Stefan and Petro were the ones there on the night Teo brought out the alcohol.  I'd have to re-read, but I'm not sure that Anna knew about the alcohol.  And knowing what a jerk Stefan was, he would've topped my list of who had turned me in.

I'm somewhat surprised by the ending, but also not since the beginning did reveal something of the end.  If you read another one of my posts you'll see that I had figured Teo would kill himself after murdering someone, but I thought it would be Stefan.  I also thought Anna would be murdered, but thought the killer would be her husband.  I guess I'm just surprised that Teo was so quick to kill his sister.  I have to think he was killing her because she had killed her own child rather than over turning him into the cops.  Of course, that only slightly makes it better; I still think he's horrible.

And I think the priest was going to be up to something shady with Lesya.  Maybe I'm too jaded from all the sex abuse that's been revealed in the Catholic church, but that was what I immediately thought of when the priest wouldn't take both children.

[kpatton]

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literature wrote:

TEODOR:

Shandi was setting the stage for Teodor from the very beginning.  All the clues were there.

• Believed in life now, not the promised land
• Didn't believe in God b/c then he wouldn't have gone to prison and God wouldn't have abondoned him
• The fire burned a part of him away 

• Staying alive requires remembering what it means to be alive
• In prison they took away the sky; he was confined in a cell
• Now he doesn't feel small in the vastness
• "THIS IS WHERE THEY'LL BURY HIM.  UNDER THIS UNBROKEN SKY"

At the end:

• "A man should be able to have a drink in his own house."  He knew automatic 1 yr sentence
• On pg 314 "If he sits long enough he can make himself disappear, empty his mind, no more thoughts."
• Just sits, becomes a rock, just exists and does not feel
• When he leaves, he waves a farmer's goodbye just like he did to his father

Little by little, life was being chiseled away from him.  I believe he could withstand the obstacles handed him by nature but between Anna killing the baby and then being turned in, he was completely deflated.

I don't know what Teodor was thinking when he offered Stephan drink.  He knew that Stephan had no scrupples and he had already managed to turn Anna against her own brother.  I was terribly disappointed in Teordor's final action.  He had no desire to go on any longer.  However, it does take a lot of courage to take your own life.

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Thank you for writing this. 

Kathy

[michaelsjlrc]

Well, I didn't post right when I finished the book, because when I first read this prompt, none of the topics really spoke to me. It wasn't until I went back and read it again that I noticed the line "also feel free to bring up what moves you most about this novel."So here goes...

Teodor has already felt betrayed by Anna because of the land issues. She then did the unforgivable by killing her baby. Turning him in to the police (which he doesn't know she didn't do) was the straw that broke the camel's back.  He can't live with going back to jail - he never completely recovered from the first time.  Killing Anna is a way to "protect" her other 2 children and avenge everything that happened between them.  Killing himself was his only way to avoid prison again, and he probably felt that his family was better off without him. 

I like that she didn't stop there. The family heading off the land in the spring with the new baby was going to have a rough life, but you felt like they were going to survive, and if Maria had anything to do with it, thrive.

This was one of those books that while I can't say that I enjoyed it, I am glad that I read it. It really made me appreciate how good I have it.

[Sheltiemama]

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rkubie wrote:

What is your impression of the land offices and officers that write the letters discussing Theo and Anna's dispute? What is their interpretation of this story?

I think the land office workers look at this as just business as usual, or maybe even less than that since it involves immigrants.

In this heartbreaking chapter, we see, first Mysha, then Anna, then Theo break down and kill. Can you talk about what has driven each of them to do it? How is it possible that they are each capable of it? Are they each aware of what they are doing?

Myron has to kill the rabbits so his family can have some meat during the winter, but it's clear he doesn't enjoy it.

Anna is just plain out of her mind, and I don't think she's fully aware of what she's done, even at the end.

And I think Theo finally just broke.

Has your impression or judgment of Theo changed entirely?

I don't know yet. I just feel so sorry for Theo. He tried so hard.

Do you feel you have any sense for the possible outcome of any of the surviving characters? Is there anyone you might make a prediction for?

I think Myron will be a farmer. And I think Maria will make sure her children survive. I found myself wondering if she would remarry just out of practicality. It would have been so difficult for a woman on her own during that time.

We've talked quite a bit about animals--In what ways have the coyotes been characters in the novel?

To me, the coyotes have represented impending doom.

What is this new Spring like for Maria's family?

Sad but hopeful. They have to leave their home, but they're also leaving so many bad memories behind. The baby was born healthy, and they have the wheat.

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[kofidane]

What a gripping and emotional story!

And the sad thing is that this story could've been anyones life in the past that have had to immigrate due to political unrest. New beginnings can follow hardships with the cultural differences, languages, intolerant communities, etc.

And here we have two families that should've supported each other since they're in the same situation and related and it did start out that way. Yet, it only took one male in the family to put tragedy in motion and effect everyone in this family. When Stefan returned, their outlook on each other changed from hope to failure without really realizing it.

Petro was happy to have his father back. He was probably one that was happy.

Revenge was a big motivator, to "Get" Teodor...and why? When you really look at the whole picture, why was that so important to Stefan? He didn't care about the farm, or his family. He knew he was causing distension and hatred when he returned.

He seemed to thrive on it. He was mean and abusive to his pregnant wife, and his crippled daughter and manipulated his young impressionable son to hate, to hurt, and yet despite this, Petro desired to be just like "him". (His father). And he did just as his father did, he waited for the police and reported Teodor, that he knew where he was hiding the moonshine bottle. 

Will the boy ever really know what effect this will have on him in the future and what tragedy it caused?

He wanted to be loved by his father so badly, that he was willing to hate his own cousin Ivan, and convince himself that it was his father that cleared the land, not Teodor. He taunted and abused his emotionally fragile and seriously unstable mother like his father did,  and stand at the side of the road to report Teodor, like a spy, just as he seen his father do. 

The whole scene was difficult to read. All of that working, laboring in the fields, just so Stefan could come back and take the money and say Teodor was only a farm hand.

Anna, what a strange woman...She definetly had some serious issues. 

How difficult it must've been for the Lesya to watch her mother, and yet when her father returned, how she introverted into an angry, fearful girl. They used her as a slave in the house. I got the impression she was afraid of her father touching her too. I had wondered if there had been inappropriate touching when she was small by her father. 

I love Teodor's family. They were so happy and made the best of their situations. And being in prison and coming out of that whole is a great thing. 

I felt sorry for Anna and Stefan's children. They were the pawns. They didn't have the same love and security as Teodor and Maria's children. The fire was a terrible thing, yet they looked at it as "This too shall pass". They made do with the little money they made off of the wheat that didn't burn.

The Coyote's was a strange character inserted into the story with Anna. I don't know why Anna felt this connection with them and wanted to befriend them so badly?

Why she gave them her baby to eat? 

Anyway, I never expected Teodor to shoot Anna. I would've though Stefan.

When Stefan was away, Anna did better. Now with Anna gone, and Teodor dead, Petro will find that his father will abandon him again. He won't stay around. Will Maria take Petro and Lesya in? But, where will they live now. She saved some grain hidden under the house.

Where to now?

Very well written tragic story. I'm impressed by this writer's ability to capture such emotions. I felt all of it. I was there, I painted the house Teodor built in my mind. 

I see their faces and what they look like. It was like I was an invisible intruder on these peoples lives, watching it unfold to the end.

Congratulations Shandi on a great novel.

[kofidane]

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Fozzie wrote:

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kpatton wrote:

Second question.  I was surprised and saddened that Maria didn't take Lesya and Petra into her family.  After all of the time the past two years while Teodor was in prison that she cared for them as if they were her own, and now she abandoned them.  Was anyone else surprised about this?

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For some reason, I wasn't surprised.  However, I can't explain why.  I think feeling the emotions of the situation at the time I was reading the book made me feel it was the inevitable thing to have happen.

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I was surprised that Maria didn't take them. But, after thinking about it, I think she felt

that taking them would only invite Stefan to return into their lives where ever they may be.

And knowing how he loves to inflict emotional pain, I think she thought of all of this, and also in the end, Petro really did turn mean. I think she would've like to have taken Lesya, but felt it would'nt be right to split them up. Plus, Lesya was like a mom to Petro. I remember reading how she would hold him tightly in bed and sing to him. I think Petro would've always blamed Maria and Teodor for his mother's death and never be happy with Maria's family. Too bad though. Where will they go?

[PiperMurphy]

I haven’t been very active in the discussion this time, but I have been following everyone’s comments. I absolutely loved the Spring and Summer sections of Under This Unbroken Sky. I was reminded of my own family, both in the characters and the farm life. Sofia reminded me a lot of one of my aunts. My parents grew up on farms in the ‘30s. They told similar stories of growing up on a farm. I even did a couple of the things described in the book myself when I was a kid. So, except for Anna and Stefan, I could identify pretty closely with the characters.

 

I knew from the first page that there would be a tragic ending. The farther I read, the more I dreaded what was to come. I can’t remember ever becoming so emotionally involved in a book. By the time I got to the part in the Fall section where Teodor is confronted by Stefan while he is loading the wheat, I had such a reaction to Stefan’s abuse that I had to put the book down and walk away for awhile. I wasn’t sure if I would be able to finish reading it.

 

I did finish, but I was not prepared for the ending. I found it shocking and disturbing beyond anything that I could have ever imagined. In fact, I skipped over some parts because I couldn’t stand to read them. I have never had such a strong reaction to the ending of a book. I honestly didn’t know what to think.

 

Now after several days, I still don’t like the ending. But not all stories have happy endings, much as I wanted these people to be happy. I realize that I would not have had such a strong reaction if the book were not so incredibly well written. Character development was perfect. These were people that we could easily recognize, become involved with, and care about. Ultimately, they are memorable. I won’t forget this book.

[julyso]

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dreamspinner_ wrote:

Hi everyone! Wow, this is my first time to post and my first time to join the First Look Book Club. I am so blown away reading everyone's thoughtful and intelligent analyses. Please be gentle as I put down my own two cents on the table...

I think the key for me to understand the book was the writer's note at the end that the story was about "the fine line between those who break and those who don't." Like kpatton said upthread, animals play a huge role in the story, and Stefan's line "This life ain't fit for an animal" is something to ponder.

I think the coyotes represent the cruelty and bestiality present in humanity - especially in their quest for survival. For me the book's central question was: How do you keep your humanity in times of such hardship? For Anna, she broke, surrendering her baby to the wild coyotes. For Teodor, he fought as hard as he can, but as many have commented, he just reached his breaking point. He snapped and committed arguably the most savage act possible: killing his own blood.

In the same way, I think there's also significance in how Teodor's worst nightmare is pacing back and forth in his prison cell - like a caged animal. I think, for him, to be a man and to be human is to be free and independent under the open sky - in control of his own destiny. Sadly, circumstances prevented him from achieving this.

The book is definitely gloomy and - let's face it - a downer. But it is well-written and gripping. It is definitely thought-provoking about how humans either break or don't. Anna and Teodor broke; Maria and, weirdly enough, Stefan did not. Maria found the strength to carry on for her family (remember what she did the first time Teodor was imprisoned?),  while Stefan (although a thoroughly despicable and wretched man) eventually did find enough "decency" within himself to walk away from his family for their own good.

Wow. I never thought I'd call Stefan decent, but there you go. Hope this gives you guys more food for thought. (Not that there was a lack of any...)

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dreamspniner_

I think you summed it up really well. I totally agree with what you said. I did find the book to be a downer, but that is life sometimes.

[ladybug74]

I think the land officers finally realized that Stefan did not do any work on the land and it was just a family dispute. Otherwise, I think they would have put Teodor and his family out of their home.

I believe Anna is suffering from some type of psychotic disorder and did not realize what she was doing when she killed her baby. If this happened today, she would be placed in a mental hospital against her will (hopefully.) A person with psychosis honestly believes that his or her delusions are real, so I don't believe she was aware of what she was doing. She thought the baby, who was wrapped in a rabbit skin blanket, was a rabbit.

When Theo kills Anna, it is out of pure rage because he believes that she told where he hid his alcohol. At this moment, I did not think as highly of Theo. I wanted to yell at him to stop before he did something he would regret. I think he realized he was wrong, though, or he would not have killed himself after killing Anna. I'm not sure if he knew what he was doing because he had been out with his wife and was possibly drunk as well as being enraged at the moment that he shot his sister.

My judgement of Theo did not change very much, even though I was a bit upset about what he did. As a Social Worker, I have learned not to judge people by the things that they do. To be able to help people the way that I do professionally, a person can't be judgmental of others.

I think the surviving characters will all make it just fine. I believe Maria will take care of her children the best way possible and they will survive, though the children may have ongoing problems due to the loss of their father. I also believe Lesya and Petro will make it in their new homes, which should be much more stable than their previous home. I had hoped that Maria would take them with her and raise them as her children, but I can understand in a way that she had many children of her own to take care of. I really like Lesya's character and think she will grow up to be a strong young lady.

The coyotes have kind of been in the background throughout this story. As I read, I felt that they were dangerous and something would eventually happen, but I honestly believed that they would kill or injure Anna. If not Anna, I could imagine them harming one of the young boys when he wandered off on his own. 

The new Spring will find Maria's family starting over again, just as they did when they moved to their previous home. They will have to find a home, plant their crops again, and re-do everything from scratch. It is going to be a hard Spring for them, but I can imagine them making it by sticking together as a close family.

[ladybug74]

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DSaff wrote:

I have had a hard time picking up other books since finishing this one. It left me so sad and angry that nothing seemed to fit. But, I just finished Natural Born Charmer and am starting The Help. whew!

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I think you will like The Help.  I just recently read it and it was great!

[ladybug74]

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emmagrace wrote:

I really appreciated the explanation of the photograph at the end of this novel. It was a nice finish. The photo in the beginning is what hooked me and the explanation was what I needed in the end!

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I also liked that the book began and ended with the photo. I guess it's symbolic of a new beginning for the family or everything moving in a cycle, like the seasons.

[ladybug74]

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rkubie wrote:

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Immortal-Spirit wrote:

Stefan was right in one thing. Leaving was the best thing he could ever do. 

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Yes,  that's a question I've had for the group, too. Was stealing the family's money and bolting without a goodbye the best thing Stefan did in this whole novel?

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I agree. I felt a sense of relief when Stefan left. I honestly thought (and kind of hoped) that he would be the one to die. I thought maybe Theo would finally get fed up with him and shoot him.

[ladybug74]

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Sunltcloud wrote:

The way I understood it, she suffocated the baby first. I'm not sure I got it right, though.

No, I don't think she suffocated the baby 1st. Maria thought she heard a rabbit crying outside and I thought this was probably Anna's baby.

[ladybug74]

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fordmg wrote:

I think it was Anna who turned Theo in .  She knew the hiding place for the liquor because she visited the house before it was finished and asked what the nitch was for.

MG

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It was definitely Petro who turned Theo in. He talked to the officers at the road, just as his father had done, and returned with a quarter. They paid him for telling on his uncle.