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kmn
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kmn
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎07-02-2009
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Re: Two Families

I think the 2 families are very interesting.  The at times seem like one family, with Maria caring for everyone. 

 

Anna provided for her brother, by getting the land.  But it seems that since then, her problems now have gotten worse.  Maria seems to need to take care of Anna as much as the children.

 

 

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Sheltiemama
Posts: 107
Registered: ‎06-01-2009
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Re: Two Families

I find myself wondering what they were like as children, too.

 


BambooMom wrote:

In another time and place, the relationship between Maria and Anna would probably be very distant. Maria takes care of Anna out of necessity, and because there just isn't another option. They would not be friends in any situation. When I see two siblings (Anna and T) who are so different in their adult lives and how they deal with adversity, I wonder what their childhood home was like. 

 

I am really enjoying the story! 


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Sheltiemama
Posts: 107
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Re: Two Families - Spring and Summer

Oh, I loved that!

 


DSaff wrote:

 

 

Then, he comes home. Shandi's description here seems right on. The children cautiously move around him until Ivan takes Teodore's face in his hands, looks into his eyes, and proclaims "It's him." That scene brought tears to my eyes.


 

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Sheltiemama
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Re: Two Families - Spring and Summer

That was so touching.

 


DSaff wrote:

Wasn't it awesome how Myron kept looking out for his father? He not only let his father keep his dignity, but he also showed him a lot of respect. Myron seems to have grown up very quickly and knows the value of honor and dignity. He wants his father to see how much he has grown, to see the things he has done, but not at the expense of Teodore's pride.


JoyZ wrote:
Wow, such a lot of contrasts and contradictions between the two families and also the characters.  I thought DStaff summed it up very well.  I am also curious about Myron.  I think being the head of the family while his father was away puts him in an awkward position now that his father has returned.  I had wondered if maybe he had looked up to Stefan, as the only man around.  But, he did maintain his father's dignity as Teodor struggled with the plow. 

 

 


 

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jbnie
Posts: 40
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Two Families

Well out !
Wordsmith
literature
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Two Families

"I'm unsure why Anna and Maria are not better friends.  After all, they lived out there in the middle of nowhere for a long time together - when both of the men were away.  I'm surprised Anna doesn't tell Maria about what her husband is up to and also why Maria doesn't seem to want to know too much about what is up with"

 

Hi m3girl,

All of Maria's time is spent doing daily chores to ensure that her family, and Anna's, will have food and that the household runs smoothly.  Perhaps if Anna was more willing to be social, it might have worked.   After a hard day's work in the fields and then to have to work at a social situation with someone (Anna) who couldn't, just may have been too exhausting for Maria to do.  Anna may have understood what Stephan was doing but too humiliated/embarrassed to discuss or maybe Anna just didn't want to admit it to herself.  Or it could have been that Maria just wasn't a social person, just a hard working and dedicated person to her family and her extended family but not socially inclined.  I've given Anna a bad rap in some of my earlier postings, but I will give her (somewhat) the benefit of the doubt here.

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Rabid_Reader
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Re: Two Families

I feel like Anna and Maria's relationship isn't a very close one, because Anna desires a better life than the one she has, while Maria accepts where she is and makes the best of it. I feel like if Anna made more of an effort to become involved in the family dynamic and farm life, than the two of them would be closer.

 

Rabid_Reader

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kpatton
Posts: 206
Registered: ‎11-27-2006
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Re: Two Families

Thank you for putting the beginning into such a nice time line.  When I started reading spring and fall, I completely forgot the introduction about the photo.  It wasn't until this discussion started that I realized that it was Maria and Teodor's family and that it foretold what was going to happen.
Kathy
Sunltcloud wrote:

I had a problem with the prison sentence too. At first, probably automatically, I assumed that he had been imprisoned in the Ukraine and later followed his wife and children to Canada and to his sister's farm. But then I reread a couple of things that cleared it for me. The prison scene was in Canada, after he stole his own grain.

 

The paragraph that had confused me is on page 76. The whole page is about the village in the Ukraine; at the bottom of the page, in the same paragraph Maria's crucifix is explained (given to her by her mother the day of their escape) and, further down is says: "When Teodor was sent to prison, Maria traded the crucifix for the wagonload of grain that the police had confiscated."

 

 

Not until I reread the previous page and the following page, and the page where their first home in Canada is described, (page 15) their arrival on Canadian soil, did I understand clearly about the prison sentence. And then the prologue made sense too. The picture was taken the first winter after their arrival, then, within the next three years the farm was taken away, Teodor went to prison, Maria took her children to Anna's farm, and the story of the four seasons begins.....

 


Shadowwolf36 wrote:


fordmg wrote:

Shandi's ability to create two separate worlds within one is amazing.  The depth of the relationships within Maria and Teodor's marrage and lack of with Anna and Stefan is wonderful.  As others have said, Maria's marriage seems to be based on love and responsibility.  Anna's is a fantacy.  She married a dream that became a nightmare.  Typical of young infatuation. 

I am still a little confused about Teodor's prison sentence.  He managed to escape Ukraine, but was caught with grain in Canada?  So he was imprisoned in Canada?  That is what I don't understand.  Why not in the old country?  

MG


I completely agree with your post....as for the prison sentence...if I read, remember and understand correctly, he did plant a harvest in Canada and 3 weeks shy of his paying off the "loan" from the government, they came in and confiscated everything...he stole the grain in Canada....he did not get caught leaving and/or stealing from the Ukraine... I could however be wrong...I don't have the book in front of me to check the facts...


 


 

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Jennd1
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Re: Two Families

Anna's children have more space, more things and an easier time of it (less work), however they both seem to enjoy helping their cousins and their aunt who are having a harder time of it.  Anna expects to be pampered and spoiled whereas her sister in law is used to hard work, expects it and makes the best of what she has.
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pagese
Posts: 13
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Re: Two Families

The children, of course, seem to mark the differences between the two families most. How would you describe those differences?

   Maria's children seem genuinely happy.  They are happy with each other and the look up to their parents.  They fuction as a family and the whole family is investing in what they are doing.  They know without their hard work together, that the family might not survive.   Anna's family on the other hand is a family by blood only.  The children spend more time with Maria and her children than with their own mother.  Anna is in a world all her own.  I sometimes wonder if she resents Maria and Theo.

 

 

What are the marriages like? Maria and Theo adore each other.   They strive together to give their children what they need.   They are gentle with each other, but push each other when needed.   Anna and Stephan don't have a relationship.   She seems afraid of him but also doesn't know what to do when he's not there.

 

What is the relationship between Anna and Maria?  I'm not sure really.  Maria almost acts more motherly, but she also feels its not her place to tell Anna what to do.

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libralady
Posts: 159
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Re: Two Families

I think the children, in many ways, are a reflection of their parents.  Maria is a strong, proud, loving mother.  She is teaching her children how to do the necessary chores, how to be respectful of their parents and of each other, and she is showing them love.  They appear to be as happy as children can be living under these circumstances.  And they appear to love their parents.  Anna's children don't seem to have any direction.  Lesya has no confidence in herself, she always looks down or looks away when someone speaks to her.  She appears to be very sensitive, but ashamed or afraid to let her feelings show.  Petro seems to always be measuring himself against Ivan.  If I remember correctly, Ivan is younger but he is bigger and stronger.  It seems that Petro always wants to prove to Ivan that he is the strongest, fastest, etc.  I think before Stefan came back that Petro was envious of Teodor and Ivan's relationship.  Petro wishes it was his family that moved into the new house.  Anna's children do not know how to act towards her.  I think they want to show her love and affection, but are afraid to.  Maria brings out the best in Anna's children.  She treats Lesya like she treats her girls, not like a crippled and I think Lesya likes this.  Maria makes sure that her children are fed no mater what.  If not for Maria, it is hard to say what Anna's children would eat.  There are several references in the story about how thin the two of them are. 
"Sow today what you want to reap tomorrow"
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artist4nature
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Re: Two Families

DSaff and aprilh have given great summaries and observations of the character interactions in the first part of the novel.

 

It strikes me that Maria and her son Myron are the force that holds these families together before Teodor returns from jail.   Maria is happy to have her husband/head of the household back but Myron is not able to relinquish his self appointed role to his dad.

Anna, due to the abusive relationship with her husband, is more like another child for Maria to watch over and nurture along with Anna's children.   Strong women were needed in this brutal environment and Maria fits that profile.

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Stewies_Mom
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Registered: ‎05-28-2008
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Re: Two Families

Q:  The children, of course, seem to mark the differences between the two families most. How would you describe those differences?

 

Anna's children suffer from neglect, whereas Maria's children are well cared for, and seem much better adjusted.  This difference seems to mark the differences between the families, in their entirety, as well.  Ivan is quicker and smarter than Petro, even though he is two years younger than his cousin.  His development is better because he has family members who take an interest in him.  Petro craves attention from his Tato, but his Tato is a lazy, good-for-nothing scoundrel.  I don't really think that the inclusion of his father in his life for periods longer than the few weeks at a time Stefan is around would actually do Petro any good.  I think he gets much better role models in his elder cousin and his uncle.  He dreams of his father coming home, but I think he is better off without him.  Likewise, I know Lesya is better off without him.  However, I think both children would benefit from being reared in the home of Aunt Maria and Uncle Teodor, versus living with their mother and/or father. 

Dania and Myron have already taken on adult responsibilities within the family.  They both have the ability to assist their mother and father with household chores and farming needs.  Katya is still young.  She has such an active imagination.  I believe that Sofia and Lesya are similar in age differences to the two young boys, but are as different as night and day.  Lesya behaves much older than her cousin, Sofia, who dreams of being a rich, pampered child.

 

 

Q:  What are the marriages like?

 

Maria and Teodor's marriage is based on faith, trust and love, whereas Anna and Stefan's marriage is based on falsehoods and failed hopes.

 

Q:  What is the relationship between Anna and Maria?

 

Although they are technically sisters-in-law, it is more of a caregiver role that Maria finds herself in.  Whether Anna is capable, or not capable, the fact that she doesn't take care of herself or her children has forced Maria, who is unable to ignore someone in need, to care for them all.  Anna seems like a child herself.  The way that Maria feels compelled to visit frequently to ensure the family has food and to make sure Lesya is coping with the household chores, the way she checks on Anna's self-inflicted wounds and cleans them out and applies salve to them reminds me of someone who is caring for a child in an adult body.  I don't think Anna was bad before becoming pregnant again, but I don't get the feeling that Anna was ever a good mother.  I find myself increasingly frustrated at Anna's behavior.

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Nancy625
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Re: Two Families

Maria and Teodor have a strong marriage, they seem to love each other very much Anna and Stefan is an abusive husband and Anna is an abused wife.  The children might as well be Maria's as she has the care of all of them.   
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HeatherF
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Registered: ‎07-17-2009
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Re: Two Families

I need to think about the reasons or the differences a bit more before I write too much but an obvious thought would be family dynamics and parenting. A not so obvious thought would be genetics and family traits that are handed down over the generations. The two families we are involved with, include a brother and sister as parents of their respective families. As I was reading it struck me that Leysa was just as strong and overcoming as Maria i.e... Theo. Likewise, Sophia seems to have the same propensity for finer things and wanting to get away from the farm for bigger and better things as did Anna before she was married.

 

Heather

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molter1970
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Re: Two Families

The differences are quite apparent from the beginning. I believe that Maria has taught and showed her children that you can survive anything and you will getn rewarded. I also think that Anna is in no shape to be a mother to two children when she cannot take care of herself and relies on other people to help her.

The marriages are completely different. For one Theo and Maria work together to make the best possible lives for their family they both have a good set of values as far as taking care of family even when you are both having hard times. Stefan and Anna's is totally different, Anna seems to only care about herself when Stefan is around and she pays so much attention to him she fails to realize the children are around.

 

Kathy M.
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Mariandy
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Two Families

 The children are all unique with their own personalities, some more endearing than others, some like their parents and others not. Leysa, for example, seems much more like Maria and I'm sensing that Sofia may have more in common with Anna. Myron's protectiveness of Teodor is a reversal of roles - how he turns away so as not to see Teodor's physical weaknesses is both incredibly mature and respectful - how many kids today would do that? Ivan's not wanting his Dad to see him pee in that one scene was quite funny on one hand but also interesting because he is a really young kid yet he worries about stuff like that.  

 

The marriages may be reflective of an individual's character . . . one reader mentioned (and I'm paraphrasing) that Anna should have known better than to marry a guy in Stefan's line of work, but there is something about her that is so sad. Maybe it's her lack of self-confidence - I'm not sure - still trying to figure her out. For Maria and Teodor, they just have a connection combined with "emotional intelligence" that seems to indicate they could make it through anything. I hope they do. I really want to see them happy and successful! 

 

Anna and Maria . . . I think Maria has a deep respect for Anna as a fellow human being. She may feel sorry for her but she doesn't do it in such a way as to make Anna feel worse about herself. I am interested in seeing where this goes. My jury is still out on Anna.

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leannenodell
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎10-19-2006

Re: Two Families

I am only a few chapters into the book, but I can already tell that there is a difference between the characters of the two families. Maria and Teo love each other very much and even though they aren't very affectionate when he first returns, you can tell that there is a deep love between them. You also see Maria's love and devotion to her family and making sure that they are fed and taken care of. Anna's relationship with Stephen is not nearly as loving and because he raped her, she resents the children. I'm glad to see that Maria is helping Anna get back to "normal", but I'm worried about what the future holds for Anna. Her sanity seems to be on the edge of a blade.
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Susan5847
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Re: Two Families

I agree - Maria is the glue that holds both families together.  She is the mother figure for all of the children and the main strength in the families. 
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CD33
Posts: 11
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Re: Two Families

I agree. Maria and Teodor have a solid marriage. In the begining of the story when Maria tends to him when he first arrives home is very touching. The way she holds her self back from gagging and continues to care for the wounds on his feet is one example of her love for her husband. It also shows Marias nurturing side and ability of caring for all the children.