Vixen Discussion: Part I: Speak Easy through page 144

[thewanderingjew]

There were times I wasn't sure if the characters were placed in the right decade. They sometimes seemed too sophisticated for the roaring twenties and more like teens of the new millenium.

I also thought that Gloria was a little too humble to be real...she is smart, beautiful, popular and yet....she doesn't know it!!! Either she doesn't know her own strengths or it is all a big act. She simply seems too naive and is running toward the edge of a cliff pushing the envelope too far in her desire to do what she wants. For someone who is described as pretty perfect, she seems very selfish. I am wondering what life has in store for her because she is living very dangerously in the first part of the book, mixing with known gangsters.

I felt sorry for Lorraine even though she entertained some pretty nasty thoughts, at times. She was really in Gloria's shadow and had no way of crawling out. Whatever she did or wanted, Gloria was always one better and with seeming little effort. I think Lorraine will grow into her own personality and no longer allow Gloria's to overshadow hers.

Clara was a piece of work. At first, I thought she was far older than how she was portrayed. She lived alone in an era when most single children stayed at home. Having broken so completely out of the mold, was it really so surprising that she got caught in a wayward life? Her devious nature is still with her even as she lives at the mercy of relatives. She may have a rude awakening as the book progresses and maybe she will change for the better.

Gloria's mom, Mrs. Carmody, reminded me of the mother in the movie Titanic, who also insisted that her teenage daughter marry someone she didn't love, simply to save the family's name and fortune. I think she may be in for a big surprise.

None of the characters seemed particularly happy, except perhaps for Marcus who seemed happy go lucky all the time and didn't seem to worry about the consequences of his behavior, one way or the other. He just did what he pleased whenever he pleased.

Each of them was trying to set themselves apart from their peers, in some way, creating a special identity, but they chose such unacceptable ways to do it. For the most part, they were successful students, except for Clara, and seemed motivated to succeed, but they didn't seem to feel that their success was enough. They didn't think that mainstream ways to accomplish their goals was even a choice. I thought to myself,  was this a result of bad parenting, poor teaching or simply being a teenager, not mature enough to really make a wise decision? I came down on the side of being a teenager, doing riskier things than a more mature adult would consider.

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Sarah-W wrote:

Hello All, 

How are you enjoying Vixen so far?

To start things off, I thought I would comment that I noticed two things in this first section of Vixen and I'm very interested in hearing what you might think about them:

1. Each of the characters seems to be trying to change their lives by manipulating their image. Gloria is a good girl interested in exploring the flapper lifestyle. Lorraine is her best friend who is jealous of Gloria and thinks she can get attention through a bad girl reputation and appearance. Then we have Clara who has a past living the high life as a flapper in New York City, but decides to adopt of the persona of 'Country Clara' when she comes to Chicago to help with Gloria's wedding. Why do you think each of these character is so interested in changing their looks? Do you think they are successful? Does changing their looks change their lives?

2. The other thing that really struck me about this first section of Vixen is Gloria's first meeting with Jerome, a black piano player at the Green Mill speakeasy."'You're here because you think it makes you free,'" he tells her. "'Unlike the rest of your little schoolgirl friends, sneaking out without Daddy's permission. Listening to the black man play his music and dirty your lily white hands... But you ain't free, kid. You wouldn't know how to be free if your life depended on it.'" I'm very interested in hearing about what you think regarding 'freedom' in this novel. Does sneaking off to a speakeasy, drinking illegal substances, or cutting one's hair make someone free? What constitutes freedom to you, and do any of the characters we've met so far have it?

What are your thoughts about the first section of Vixen? What are your predictions (no spoilers, please!) about what might happen next?

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[southrnbella]

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Sarah-W wrote:

Some interesting observations. I want to hear more about why you think of Marcus as being the character who is most free. 

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I think Marcus can come off as very doesn't have a care in the world and is living the easy life. But you will see small, tiny glimpses even in this short part of the book we have read that shows he wants something more than what he is doing now in his life. The fast life is not always the best life and I think he is learning that.

[southrnbella]

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Sarah-W wrote:

If you had to choose between a society marriage or life as a singer in a speakeasy, what would you choose?

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I think in the 20s the easier life would be to choose a society marriage..But honestly I would choose neither...why couldn't a girl go to college? I know we are speaking about Gloria in this state...But I think that is how these girls got into this mess to being with..They had their lifes picked out for them and they rebelled...I have a lot more respect for the woman back then....

[gabi823]

WOW!!! I was expecting the book to be good, of course that is whyI wanted to participate but I must say it is a lot better than I thought! When I first picked it up I found it a little easy to set down so I was nervous, but by the 4th chapter I was HOOKED!!!! I am dying to know who is sending Clara those notes and what she is hiding about her time in NY. I am also very excited to see what happens with Gloria now that she got the job as the singer. I have only read to pg. 144 so I am excited to see where it will all go, I didn't want to get ahead of the discussion so I stopped myself!

As far as the change in the characters I feel we have just begun to see them start to emerge from their cocoons and I am not sure where it will all go. I feel the most confused about Clara and that makes me want to keep reading and find out more. I think that changing their looks may help to change themselves, it just depends on how far they take it. I feel after reading this far I can only judge on Gloria for sure, as we have learned the most about her. I think Gloria is on her way to a downward spiral, she is definitely changing herself running away from her deb party and getting the job as the singer for the Green Mill is going to turn her life upside down! Raine has me thrown for a loop I am not sure where they are going with her change as we don't know much about her background except that she is Gloria's best friend, she is a very interesting character and I am excited to see how the friendship changes now that Gloria has some big secrets and that Raine is on to Clara and her hidden agenda.

As far as the freedom aspect I do not think any of the characters have true freedom, they are all running from or to something. Gloria is trying to excape her impending marraige to someone she knows doesn't love her, Raine is trying to get the boy she loves to notice her, Clara is running from someone or something in NY. This to me is not freedom, they are all looking for an easy way to "change" things that they have no control over.

I am dying to see what happens next, I have no predicitions at all. I have no clue where this story is going and I LOVE IT! I can't wait to get back to reading and look forward to seeing what everyone else has to say about the book!

[bookrooted]

1. Why do you think each of these character is so interested in changing their looks? Do you think they are successful? Does changing their looks change their lives?

I think the girls wanted to change their looks for a simple reason-something better. Something they wouldn't have normally done, something that's greater than the average simple life and to be apart of something thrilling and exciting and special. At least, for Gloria. Lorraine wants to prove she is interesting, and thinks that she can only do that by changing everything about her maybe with the thought that being her normal, pure self wasn't enough before. Clara wanted to change her looks and attitude to cover her past self she is slightly ashamed off, to go back to the simple way things were before in her life before New York. Basically she wants Gloria's life and Gloria wants hers. 

As far as I have read, about to page 156ish, only Clara has really changed herself-on the outside at least. In the inside we see she hasn't covered her fear or shame or anxiety. To her the Country Clara is more of a job. Gloria is close-her old life is disappearing into boring behind her-a taste of the flapper lifestyle drugging her in. I think she was successful as well. Lorraine was successful for attention in a wrong way. They still see her as a clingy wanna-be friend-not the attention she wanted.

Gloria's life looks like the only one changing. Clara is still caught up in her past, and Lorraine is still jealous and not as laid-back and indifferent as the person she wants to be.

2. I'm very interested in hearing about what you think regarding 'freedom' in this novel. Does sneaking off to a speakeasy, drinking illegal substances, or cutting one's hair make someone free? What constitutes freedom to you, and do any of the characters we've met so far have it?

Freedom in this book to me is the power to live life dangerously, to be free of labels and names, to love whom you want, and to toss out the old ways and welcome the change of the new generation. Free is still independence. No, it doesn't mean your free to cut your hair or drink illegally, though it sort of gets things rolling in a way. They are making choices to rebel most the time, or to fit in, and that's not quite the aspect of freedom. What is though is the action of making your decisions, to experience everything for yourself, to stand out uniquely, to forget your responsiblites for a while and just live in the moment. The crazy thrill of that, of living without thinking with worry, to go with the flow and have a special and secret happiness seems free to me.

Clara may have had a taste of that in New York-of careless young freedom, but it obviously went wrong some point, and she is still traumatized from her experience. Gloria seems close, but it could easily slip away and/or end with bad decisions, since it isn't that easy to be the "free" i described. Lorraine isn't close, but i wish she would be-to just be herself and realize that things will probably get better that way, to freely be herself. Not to make reckless decisions to fit in or get attention, but free glamorously as herself. I really want that for her.

What are your thoughts about the first section of Vixen? What are your predictions (no spoilers, please!) about what might happen next?

- I'm falling more and more in love with it as I read, the details of the speakeasy dragging me in along with the controversial conflicts. I didn't know much about the twenties before I read this besides that gangsters ruled cities and glamorous women wore dresses with stringy beads that dangled down and they all smoked and it was all mischievous fun. I like a more in-depth perspective of it. My prediction is that Gloria doesn't have it that easy, and that someone like her mother or Sebastian is going to find out. And I secretly hope she gets a happy ending with Jerome-I love his character! And of course i must find out Clara's secret-I know it has to involve her mysterious lover from NYC. Marcus i feel is hiding something, and i'm bad at understanding his real motives. Again, for Lorraine, i really hope she changes and doesn't do anything stupid-crazy. But seeing this is a book, she will probably do just that or something more reckless.

[Sarah-W]

Jump in any time to tell us what you think about the book. You're doing just fine!

[Sarah-W]

Some great insights... I also went to go find Plane Crazy, very fun and very in keeping with the 1920s tone. Thanks for sharing!

[naylorchic]

I made to page 144 today, and I had to make myself stop. This book is definitely reeling me in. I can't wait to keep reading. So many questions left unanswered. Like what is Clara's big secret from New York? Who is sending her messages? How is Gloria gonna pull off singing at the Green Mill without her mother finding out? Is she going to go thru with the marriage to Bastian? I'm not sure if I can wait till next week to continue reading, but I will try my best to resist.

[Sarah-W]

Lorraine's going to Barnard... we hope....

[dclement04]

1.  Why do you think each of these characters is so interested in changing their looks? Do you think they are successful? Does changing their looks change their lives?

Well first I must say that I finished this book last week and WHOA!! FABULOUS!! Ok I won't spoil it for those who have not finished. To answer the question: I think each girl is trying to change their imagine because deep down inside they just really don't know what they want out of life. Trying something new seems reasonable to me, you try new looks and either it will work for you or not. I think Lorraine is trying to change her look more so because she feels like she is always in the shadow of Glo and has to out do her so she stands out so people recognize her too.

2.  Does sneaking off to a speakeasy, drinking illegal substances, or cutting one's hair make someone free? What constitutes freedom to you, and do any of the characters we've met so far have it?

Freedom can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. In this case just to answer the question I definitely think cutting your hair can be a freeing experience. Going to speakeasies could be living on the edge, when you are in highschool that would be living on the edge because clearly they know they shouldn't be there and because they did it behind their parents back I wouldn't call that freedom. I think Jerome has freedom to do what he likes, he loves music, he gets to play his music freely in a club that appreciates it and he makes his own decisions in his life so far that I have seen.

What are your thoughts about the first section of Vixen? What are your predictions (no spoilers, please!) about what might happen next?

I think this first section has been phenomenal so far, this book really is exceptional and i couldn't put it down. the rest of the book is even better! that's all I'll say.

[Atreyu59]

TO Sapphire329:  

I agree that Clara was acting so good at being pure and naive that I found it sick'n to say the least.  I had a feeling about what her secret was going to be before I got to that part of the book; 

I did not think she was the most interesting character though, cause I had her pegged at the beginning - she played hard and then she PAID hard.  She had to know when your out there (in the world of the flappers) something is going to happen that you may not be able to control, and I see that is exactly what happened to Clara.

I must say she had some good lines about covering up for her society-slave Aunt.

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You said: 

            For me, Clara is the most interesting character of the book.  I don't know if I'm supposed to like her or not, but I find her highly entertaining.  I loved the dinner scene when Gloria tried to draw attention away from herself by throwing Clara under the bus.

[TaraMQ]

I completely and totally agree with you! These poor girls can't truly be who they are because of what society dictates of them. I can't imagine having to put on an act every single day just to be what I was "supposed" to be. I am excited to read the rest of the book to see if the girls continue to be the "supposed to" girls or if they break apart from the norm.

[literature]

I have not read any of the posts as yet as I want to get all my own thoughts down first. 

The prologue sets the stage for things to come.  Often you read the prologue, try to remember everything and then it tends to take a back seat as the plot thickens.  The one thing that actually struck a familiar cord was on page 41, "Gloria's hair swept across her forehead like a crinkled autumn leaf, billowing over one's sea-green eye before delicately ending..."  Then I went back to the prologue, "She stared into the mirror.  Everything was perfection:  green eyes smoldering, checkbones rouged..."  Could the prologue be describing Gloria?  I don't remember reading any descriptions of Lorraine's or Clara's eyes, just Marcus's blue eyes and it would be out of context for Marcus to be dressed in drag.  Any thoughts?

[nikki_ikkin]

I am enjoying Vixen so much. All the characters seem to want to change something in their lives, and I like how Clara and Gloria don't realize just how similar they really are. I think the girls are interested in changing themselves, just as girls are today. The girls with straight hair want it to be curly like the other girls and vise versa. The author is showing how girls back in the 20's think so much like teenage girls think today. They do end up being successful in ways, but it also harms them, I think. Changing their looks does change their lives, in some ways, and some good, some bad.

For the part regarding freedom, I think back in the 20's to some people, having freedom would be to sneak out and change your appearance drastically and do things like that, but I think it means more than that as well. It means that you aren't under anyone's power, and that you can get what you want in life regardless of the color of your skin or how much money you have. I don't think any of the characters are truly free. They are bound by race, money, and marriage.

I love the book so far. I am very into the 20's and 30's and I love the idea that you could be in a speakeasy where Al Capone was sitting in the corner of the room. Jillian does a wonderful job, like I said, putting the thoughts and actions of the teenage girls into perspective. I guess I never really thought that they had some of the same problems that teenage girls have today about looks and boys and friends. I cannot wait to see what happens and see how these girls develope and change throughout the end!

[Atreyu59]

TO maxcat

I have to say I loved the cover & the Prologue.  If you think you have figured out who has the gun in their purse you may wish to re-consider your thoughts on that one.  Unfortunately, I couldn't put the book down & forged ahead of schedule to read to the end.

Keep in mind that whoever is sending Clara the notes they don't sound threatening - -- as in dangerous- - - but they do get under her skin -in a speak-easy kinda of way

I got to thinking that 'lil ole Country Clara was a bad-ass girl just keeping it underwraps from anyone finding out about her previous life, yet she is not the only rough cover!!!

Great book how it unfolds and twist & turns until it is OVER .  .   .  yearning for more books ..  ..  ..

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maxcat wrote:

                    I think the prologue is the key to this whole book. Who is after Clara? Is it someone from her past in New York? And who is writing all these notes to her saying they are coming for her. Obviously, she has made some dangerous enemies and they know where she is. A bit of intrigue in this book will go a far distance

[Atreyu59]

TO tudorose:

I have to commend you on your good, not just good but OUTSTANDING self-control!  I read the entire book against my will (somewhat- noisey I guess), then read each and every post from the group, then can't stay off the boards, nor can I get my paws off the book cover, over and over- seeing if I missed a passage; all the time I have college HIST homework & a major paper due next week!  

I typically don't read this much and discuss this much of a novel- but this one is truly a good, great! read.  So far I think everyone has done a tremendous job at not SPOILing any of the rest of the book & that is saying something.  Keep up the reading

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you said .    .    .    .

               I have managed to control myself and haven't finished Vixen yet!  I always worry about spoilers, so I am glad to have stayed on track this time. 

[Thanhybaby]

1. Each of the characters seems to be trying to change their lives by manipulating their image. Gloria is a good girl interested in exploring the flapper lifestyle. Lorraine is her best friend who is jealous of Gloria and thinks she can get attention through a bad girl reputation and appearance. Then we have Clara who has a past living the high life as a flapper in New York City, but decides to adopt of the persona of 'Country Clara' when she comes to Chicago to help with Gloria's wedding. Why do you think each of these character is so interested in changing their looks? Do you think they are successful? Does changing their looks change their lives?

The physical transformations that each of the girls go through indicate their need for change.

Gloria is not happy with her upcoming marriage.  She wants to feel alive.  She's tired of feeling like her whole life is mapped out for her.  She wants to rebel and the one thing she can do is cut her hair.  She knows her mother and fiance will disapprove.  She wants to show them that she is in charge of her life.

Lorraine is tired of living in Gloria's shadow.  She wants to stand out and be seen.  She bobbed her hair first, yet when Gloria does it everyone pays attention to her.  She shows up to the party dressed provocatively, but everyone just thinks she looks like a hussy.  She wants Marcus to like her, but everything she does pushes him farther away. 

Clara is trying to reinvent herself.  She lived the flapper lifestyle in New York and look where it got her?  She is trying desperately to fit in with the high society girls.  If only they knew what her life was like back in New York.  Only her aunt knows what really happened and she intends to keep it that way.

2. The other thing that really struck me about this first section of Vixen is Gloria's first meeting with Jerome, a black piano player at the Green Mill speakeasy."'You're here because you think it makes you free,'" he tells her. "'Unlike the rest of your little schoolgirl friends, sneaking out without Daddy's permission. Listening to the black man play his music and dirty your lily white hands... But you ain't free, kid. You wouldn't know how to be free if your life depended on it.'" I'm very interested in hearing about what you think regarding 'freedom' in this novel. Does sneaking off to a speakeasy, drinking illegal substances, or cutting one's hair make someone free? What constitutes freedom to you, and do any of the characters we've met so far have it?

When Gloria leaves the speakeasy she goes back to her normal life.  She is pretending to be two different people.  When she no longer has to lead a double life she will be free.

Lorraine is trying to be free from Gloria's shadow, but all she is doing is competing with her.  When she stops trying to one up Gloria and simply be her friend she will be free.

Clara is keeping her past a secret.  She is trying to conform to high society and pretend that the life she had in New York never happened.  Once she can admit that her time in New York only molded her into the person she is today, she will be free.

[literature]

Clara is an interesting character, I like her and hold out the most hope for her.  She is definitely street smart and that is attributed to living in NYC for the year, living the life of a flapper,  frequenting the speakeasies and running around with whomever.  The one thing that I was wondering, though.  If Clara ran away during her senior year of high school, lived in NYC for a year, shouldn't she have been  emancipated already and legally responsible for herself and not necessarily under her parents's rules? I was thinking back to my mother's youth, growing up in NYC and attending high school in the 1920's.  The age a child started and attended school then were the same as is now.

As an option, her parents bought her a one-way ticket to live with Aunt Bea in Chicago to help plan her cousin's wedding.  She went willingly to get away from the prison-like regiment her parent had created for her back on the farm.  Besides, her father threatened to disown her if she didn't  leave behind her immoral lifestyle.  When Aunt Bea reveals to her that her parents had given a deposit to the headmistress, guaranteeing her place at any point during the year to the Illinois Girls' School of Reform, Clara is determined to prove Aunt Bea and her parents wrong and not give them the satisfaction of sending her off to reform school.  She creates a whole new self image, that of the pure country cousin, and wills herself (outwardly) to keep to that persona. Clara wins the hearts of the debutante girls and their mothers and is starting to enjoy that life.

We find out that someone from her past is leaving her notes in her room; how the notes get there remains a mystery.  All that came to mind was the Cad she keeps wanting to get out of her head.  Reference is made a few times to sneaking in and out of the house via the servants quarters.  A possibility.

.

[Atreyu59]

LBlaze:

    I like your comments & they ring so true - because we can all think back to that time and smile or carryon about how it felt- we thought we were so in command of our destiny only to come to grips with our lives and youthfulness.  I was taken aback about some parts of the book.  

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When Lorraine referred to Marcus as her future husband in her head, I had the biggest smile on my face! Who didn't feel that way about some boy growing up?!

[Atreyu59]

TO Literature:

you bring up some very interesting and good points for the next novel (release 2011?) & I think we will see them unfold in the future, possibly ?

Consider that the servants were exactly that- - they didn't make waves for the most part or else risk being fired and times were hard for black servants, which they no doubt were in those days; so if a person were to hand a note or been in with a particular person would they not carry thru with the request.  I don't think it was hard to get those notes up to Clara's room by a stolie pigeon ( a person who we would not suspect) who didn't realize it was causing harm????

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We find out that someone from her past is leaving her notes in her room; how the notes get there remains a mystery.  All that came to mind was the Cad she keeps wanting to get out of her head.  Reference is made a few times to sneaking in and out of the house via the servants quarters.  A possibility.