Vixen Discussion: Part II through the end of the book

[Sarah-W]

Jillian Larkin's Vixen ends on several cliffhangers: Will Gloria give up her society life in Chicago to follow Jerome into the jazz world of New York? Will Lorraine get the love and attention she desires without finding herself trapped in a dark bargain with one of Chicago’s ruthless gangsters? Can Clara find the courage to face her past and make a new life with the man she loves? Vixen ends with murder, romance, and intrigue, revealing the identity of the gun-toting vixen in the prologue and Vera's role in the events of the book. 

This is the last week of the Vixen First Look discussion. You've all been wonderful participants! It has been such a pleasure to read a book with people who are so open and engaged. To close our discussion I'm interested in your overall thoughts about the book. I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts about similarities and differences between the Roaring Twenties and now. What is the same? What is different? Why? And what had to happen to make things change?

Vixen will be released on December 14th, so if you liked this book make sure to recommend it to someone else who would enjoy it! 

[Arsenic]

Firstly, while sitting with my 17yr old niece the other night I had her look the book over and ask if it would be something she would pick up. She said yes. She actually told me that she has two other books on her list and that after that she looks forward to reading it.

Now on to the book. As far as the conclusion of the book, I am left wanting. I love the world that Jillian has painted and I really want to feel for the entire cast of characters but the further I followed them into their lives the more I felt excluded. Maybe it is a symptom of the times but I felt like I couldn't connect with some of their decisions (especially Raine). And at the end as it's revealed it Vera in fact was the one behind letting Bastian know, and that Bastian had in a way been in cahoots with Carlito the whole time, I most identified with Vera's actions. I understood why she would go out of her way to try and break up a relationship she saw as impossible. And to be quite honest would probably have done exactly the same things in her shoes. I even in part identified with Clara and her situation. Both of those girls seemed to have real thought and emotion on their side where as next to them Gloria and Raine just look like naive little girls playing dress up. I think it shows what a sheltered life that our posh main character has led if some stolen kisses and butterflies in her stomach are all that it would take to make her feel like she is in love and run away with someone so socially taboo. That "love" between them just didn't feel very solid to me, and I would be unsurprised to find out that in the next book if she did choose to run away with JJ that it fell apart almost immediately. 

What left me feeling disconnected from Raine was her feelings about Bastian. Although obviously confused and longing to return to an ideal in her friendship with Gloria at no point were we ever given anything to really LIKE about her, other than a shallow sense of how unfair things were to her. However the more that she did, the worse her situation got, and the less I felt she ever was a good friend. I very much got the impression during her encounters with Bastian that Raine would be the type of person that, even if she didn't think what he was doing was right and that it is never okay to mess about with a friends fiance, I did however feel that she would take a small enjoyment or smugness over the fact that he wanted to sleep with her. Like if Gloria supposedly got everything, here she was taking a bit of what was Glorias. But mostly she just ran from place to place feeling sorry for herself. 

I really felt that Marcus was initially the most intriguing character but ultimately most of his actions and revelations were too on the side for me. The focus here really is on the ladies and he remains a mystery. I'd like to know more about him. 

I guess I just felt, at the end of the book here, that relationship and love had so much more pressure than today. Today people fall in and out of love without much in the way of social pressure. Arranged marriages don't happen with the same frequency and something like a parent getting divorced isn't automatically scandal and social death. So I would assume love would have to feel like more than just a fleeting crush influenced heavily by the disapproval of society. And when a person is living in that kind of stifling town rebellion is all you can do, but personally I also feel like that should only make the love more fierce and it just didn't feel like that to me. 

Again, I love the world Jillian has created, my hats off to you. It takes a good book to get me as annoyed at characters as this. And I'm curious to know what the other readers thought, am I just being too hard on the girls? I'm not that far out of YA myself but perhaps my soul is just a little too old and cynical. 

[librarysusie]

Wow what an ending!

 Gloria & Jeromes great escape was written so well!That Gloria ended up killing someone to save Jerome was a shocker. I wonder in the next book if they will be hunted down by gangsters.

Bastian Holy Cow even more dispicable than I imagined what an arrogant ..... well I won't say it in mixed company but you get the jist of it. That he and Vera have been conspiring together was another shocker. I understood when before she was trying to watn Gloria away but to go that far was surprising! I think she has learned her lesson in trusting Bastian and I look forward to see how that plays out.

Oh Lorraine you just keep getting yourself in deeper and deeper. Now that the scary gangster has latched onto her I think she is going to just keep getting deeper and deeper into trouble!

I sure hope Clara and Marcus get their Happily Ever After in New York or at least get  back together before Harris starts more meddling.

The differences: I think the angst is the same I don't think that will ever change. The way women were treated in the 20's is so different than the freedoms we enjoy today. I think Women gaining the right to vote was the stepping stone to our freedom. And I am glad that  inter-racial dating is now acceptable.

Are you going to make a thread for posting reviews?

[JGriffin]

I really enjoyed this book, and can't wait to find out what happens to these characters.  I do think that Gloria will give up her society life and follow Jerome to New York.  Not sure how they will make a go of it once they get there though. What with them having the mob after them, they will certainly be leading a dangerous life!

I worry that Lorraine will end up like that other flapper girl, Maude, who was hanging around with Carlito.  She thinks that his attention is a good dark and dangerous thing, but it might turn into a deadly attention.  Then again, on page 367, she does say that she feels her dark side rising so its possible she could find herself liking being involved with the mob.

There are definitely some differences about our current times and the Roaring Twenties. Obviously there is no longer prohibition, and as long as you are of legal age you can visit clubs and dance places without sneaking around.  Also, interracial couplings are no longer as frowned upon as they once were.  I'm sure they are still difficult, especially in certain areas, but because of the strides made in race relations it is maybe a little easier for these couples.

I guess some people would find our current dealings with marijuana and other drugs similar to the times of Prohibition. Marijuana is something that is against the law that many people feel is not something that is necessary to be outlawed much like alcohol was in the 20's.  It has to be purchased in secret and cannot be used openly without fear of getting arrested. 

[JGriffin]

Also, I meant to add that I really hope that Clara and Marcus do end up meeting in New York and trying to make a go of their relationship!  It is nice to see Marcus accepting her past (though, to be honest, he was just as promiscuous - maybe even more so!!!)  Of course, back then, and even still today at times, the women were supposed to be prim and proper and the men could do however they pleased.  I think that Clara and Marcus have the best chance at forming a good relationship though, and they can grow up together.

[DSaff]

First I have to say, This was a fantastic read and I can't wait for "Ingenue" to come out. Jillian, you truly have a hit on your hands! Ok, now to the questions. LOL

I was amazed to find some answers, and thrilled at the cliffhangars - those are the things that keep me coming back to an anthor and their work. So, I was wrong about who ratted Gloria out. Vera was not the one I suspected, but it made sense. But working with Bastian, that slime ball, was truly not in my line of sight at all. At the end she seems to be pulling away from him, but I wonder if he will let her go. Then we have Gloria shooting a gangster and running to the train station with Jerome. I was so happy that neither Gloria nor Jerome was shot. But, we find yet another cliffhanger with Jerome on the train and Gloria on the platform ready to make a final decision. (I love it!) Will they be together in NYC and will the gangsters follow them? The next cliffhanger I look forward to finding resolved is that of Lorraine and the gangster life she seems to be plunging headlong into. Willl someone rescue her? Will they care enough? Lastly, I see happiness for Clara and Marcus as there seems to be complete honesty between them now. But, will Jillian let them be happy (hahahahahaha) or will there be other rocky paths for them to trod? I will definitely be following the rise of "Vixen" as it tops the charts, and will be anxiously awaiting the sequels. Bravo, Jillian! 

I was impressed with the level of research Jillian did to put this story correctly into the Roaring '20's. The attention to detail took me to that time and let me witness the story as it unfolded. I think she did a great job of portraying the '20's. Have things changed since then? Yes, in ways of fashion, public thoughts, communication, travel, and even in the public lives of gangsters. We know they are there, but their faces seem more hidden today. I think teenagers will always find ways to reach out and stretch their wings. After all, they are looking for ways to become their own person and fly. We all hope, however, that their path is one of happiness and not lawlessness.

[dhaupt]

First Jillian, GREAT NOVEL and what a wicked ending, what a way to reel us in for the next installation of the series.

Hmm, now for the cliffhangers, I don't really see Gloria or Clara's stories as cliffhangers, I think we've been shown the path that each of them will take with Gloria going to NY w/Jerome and Clara waiting for next year to be w/Marcus.

The real cliffhangers to me anyway are what's to become of Lorraine (the drunk), and Vera and the big fat skunk Bastien (I always knew he was a slimeball I just didn't know how big of one he was) along w/Carlitio the mobster.  

Thank You First Look and B&N for another great pick.

Thanks Sarah for your moderating, it's been a blast.

[Fairqueen2]

Wow, that's all I can say about the end of the book.

I was so not expecting Clara to be carrying around a secret like THAT! I never would have guessed that if Lorraine hadn't blurted it out when she was drunk. And in front of so many people too! I felt so bad for Clara and I was so happy that Marcus still wants to be with her. It's nice to see that despite the fact he now knows about her past that he's still in love with her and wants her to come with him to New York. It's also nice to see that she's changed for the better since the beginning of the book. I feel that she's more sure of herself and is a bit more responsible in my own opinion.

Lorraine, Lorraine, Lorraine, what were you thinking? Did you REALLY think that you were going to win Marcus by outing Clara's secrets in front of most of Chicago's elites? Lorraine's actions at the end of the book definitely show to me that she's going to somehow become Carlito's girlfriend or something, or even his wife... Well, she definitely lost Gloria's friendship for good by doing something as low as what she did at Gloria's engagement party. So pretty much Lorraine's friendless and with Carlito now in the picture somewhat, I am wondering what's going to happen to her in the next book.

I had a feeling that the girl in the prologue might be Gloria, but we confirmed on that fact when the prologue was repeated with Gloria being the girl. At first I thought it might be Lorraine trying to get revenge on Gloria or something, but I was wrong! I didn't expect her to actually USE the gun though so that was a shock right there. I don't think that Gloria would have stayed in Chicago without Jerome there. She knows that the mob will be after her and that Bastian tried to do what he did (I had a thought that the rat might be Vera just by the way she was acting towards Gloria at the Green Mill, but once she found out her brother almost died because of her she sure changed her tune pretty quickly about Gloria!). Gloria most definitely went to New York with Jerome. So looking forward to the next book to see what's going to happen to them!

This was definitely a great read. As soon as I got it in October I tried not to start reading it early, but I ended up reading it in three days because it was sooo good. I couldn't put it down it was that good! This was a wonderful book Jillian, and I can't wait to read the next book in your wonderful new series. Hopefully that book will be in the First Look book club as well for I will surely sign up to read and discus that book as well! Thanks again!

[mv5ocean]

---

I guess some people would find our current dealings with marijuana and other drugs similar to the times of Prohibition. Marijuana is something that is against the law that many people feel is not something that is necessary to be outlawed much like alcohol was in the 20's.  It has to be purchased in secret and cannot be used openly without fear of getting arrested. 

---

Very interesting observation---I hadn't thought about it but that is exactly how alcohol was viewed during the twenties!

That is a perfect comparison to today.

[literature]

LORRAINE...

I had held out some hope for Lorraine earlier and had even posted that I felt sorry for her being a product a parents who just brought her into this world and left her to be raised by the hired help.  I think now she is in too deep to even have any chance to succeed at Barnard and have my doubts that she will even make it to the first semester.  After her fiasco at the engagement party, losing the spotlight and all the attention to Clara, not even the crutch of alcohol could save her.  The more she tried to disgrace Clara, the more irrational her train of thought and articulation became.  She couldn't think straight before the alcohol; now the alcohol was the catalyst sending out the demons. 

She runs out from the party, finds herself on a bench in the park, and rationalizes that when she gets  to NY, her life would change and she wouldn't mess things up.  Here she is thinking that she would meet someone at Columbia who wouldn't ignore her as Marcus did or treat her as a floozy the way Batian did.  Good strategy, maybe, but not from an irrational person.  Bastian follows her to the park with the pretense of following the victim but, being Bastian, goes in for the kill, and invites her back to his apartment.  She is so starved for affection, and a friend, she accepts and says to him "let's get sloppy".  She is just hopeless!  So much for her long-lived theory on life.

Lorraine is so weak that she believes she's found her divine inspiration when she sees flashing lights from the church.  A red blinking light saying redemption and a green blinking light saying truth.

The future I see for Lorraine is very grim.  She will probably get involved with Carlito, live a drug-induced life as a prostitute, only to be cast aside or dealt with more severely when she proves herself to be completely worthless, or overdoses and dies.  After all, didn't Carlito tell her "You got nothing right now baby but I'm gonna change that".

BASTIAN...

The more we learn about Bastian, the more dispicable he becomes.  He will use anyone as a means to an end.  No loyalty to anyone.  He tells Carlito "You take care of him and I'' take care of her.  She's a little bit of nothing."  He confesses to Lorraine "You don't know who your enemies are", "Bad press is the best press of all", Everyone has a skeleton or two in their closet.  Most people sympathize.  What they don't necessarily like are the people who open the closet doors.  Scares them."  It worked out perfectly that Gloria took his gun from the drawer, used it on the gangster and that Vera would make sure he's implicated in the murder.  I hope Jillian plays this up good and he suffers before he meets his demise.

GLORIA...

I don't believe that Gloria knows what love is.  Jerome is her ticket out.  She found him while being trapped in a loveless engagement and he gave her attention.  I do believe there was some type of "infactuation" connection, not love.  What experience did she have in her life.  Her life-long friendship from Marcus, an absentee father who was divorcing her mother for a bimbo in New York, and the engagement to someone who got her as a booby prize in a financial arrangement.  Gloria and Jerome have too many strikes against them and Gloria does not have the experience to deal with these social issues nor does she have the street smarts to get by on nothing in a strange city living a life she knows nothing about.  Jerome is a survivor, out of necessity.  Even as Gloria went to Green Mill to say goodbye to Jerome, she was making comparisons between staying and marrying Bastian and running off with Jerome.  In her perfect world, she'd marry Bastian, keep her name out of the gossip columns and her mother would be secure; while nothing about her and Jerome made sense.  Even Jerome realizes this and tells her that even though he loves her, he is no good for her.  I give Jerome credit here at the train station.  He is giving Gloria every option to go back.  But, on page 416, "Gloria ran to him and mounted the steps.  "I'd rather be with you--wherever you are, no matter how bad things are--than anywhere in the world without you."  Even though on page 417, it says "This man she had killed for."  Gloria had led too soft a life and when she pulled the trigger, it was just a reflex due to the circumstances.  If she had the time to contemplate the situation, would she have pulled the trigger knowing that if she killed a person, she would go to jail?  My theory on Gloria's life:  She goes to NY with Jerome, lives a very hard life, somehow meets up with her father, he tells her to go back to Bastian and marry him and she will get her inheritance.

(My lunch hour is over and I have to go back to work now.)

[Becktrek]

I flippin LOVED the end of this book!!!  It was very well done.  I loved all the cliff hangers and can't wait to keep going on the series. 

 I'll keep reading everyone's comments.  They are so very well thought out and it seems people have such better insight than i do.  The pregnancy thing totally hit me out of the blue.

Great pick Paul and thanks to Jillian for letting us read her book early!

Becky in IN

[melNaac]

Truly a great read! IT was left on quiet a cliff hanger; in the end I just wanted to keep reading to find out what would happen next.. I had to re-read the part with Gloria and Jerome to figure out if she went with him or not an then it didn't say! I hope she does in the next book. And Clara and Marcus- they need to stay together too, I am a sucker for those happily ever after endings; but this isn't the end! I haven't given up on Lorraine yet, but I am still not the biggest fan! I hope Vera seeks justice for Bastian's action in the next book!

[tweezle]

OH NOOOOO!!! The book can't be finished yet, I need to know more! It's going to seem like forever until the next book comes out now. I have a love/hate relationship with cliffhangers and series.

I loved how the book ended. Sebastian - I knew he wasn't a good guy, but his connections surprised me - especially his phone call and orders of what to do with Jerome. Plus his comment about Gloria. I'm glad she got away from him. Actually, I'm glad they both did and are on their way to a new life. Or will Carlito & Sebastian track them down. They probably wouldn't be hard to find, since their relationship on and off the stage is highly unusual for that time period.

Clara deserves Marcus. I'm so glad he didn't leave her. I didn't think he would, but with a revelation like that, it must have been quite a shock for him. I want to read more about these two.

Lorraine - oh my! What a mess that one made for herself. And now with Carlito - can she really be such a fool?

And Vera - shame, shame! To put her brother at such a risk when she claims to want to protect him. Her anger at Gloria, I understand, but Jerome was in tons of danger. How could she not know it could get him killed?

Excellent, excellent read! To think I almost passed this one up. I'm so glad I had time to change my mind!!!

[ccshealy]

I think what I liked most about the ending of the book was that we finally got to see a bit of Vera's perspective, and gain some understanding for why she had done the things she had done throughout the book.

I found this particularly interesting because it made me wonder, if by slipping Vera her own chapter at the end of the book, the author is setting her up to be a more prominent character in the next book?  I certainly hope so - I actually felt sorry for Vera at the end of the book and want to find out what happens to her.  She was genuinely trying to look out for her brother, and as a result, she has unwittingly gotten caught in the middle of something bigger, something she doesn't want to be a part of.  Poor Vera.  I feel like she is very trapped at the end of the book, and I hope that perhaps in the next book, we will get to see Vera, like Gloria, fight her way to freedom as well!

~Carissa

[Lizard16]

First I would like to thank you for letting me apart of this process.  I really enjoyed reading this book.  The characters were a joy to get to know.  The vivid descriptions really helped draw me into the time and place very well.  Thank you for letting me be apart of this and I look forward to following these characters as they develop into adulthood.

I believe Gloria will go to New York.  I am worried that Lorraine will get lost into the crime scene and probably will not survive.  I hope that Clara and Marcus can stick this out and become a couple.

The Roaring Twenties are not all that different from now in that people still look for that perfect love, that they get into uncomfortable positions, and they are also trying to grow up too fast.  However, in many ways it is different as well the lines between races and economic backgrounds have blurred quite a bit and it is more common to see people together from different races and economic backgrounds and alcohol is no longer illegal.  I believe people have opened their minds to accept more than they used to.  I believe that people pushed those boundries and lead to the opening of peoples minds. 

Thank you again for letting me participate.  This has been a great experience.

[maxcat]

Wow, what an ending and I truly want to read Ingenue to find out what happens to the characters! To be honest, I finished this book over a week ago but kept quiet.

First, Gloria. Is she going to get on that train or not? The possibilities of getting on that train just don't seem possible for an interacial marriage as life would be difficult for both Gloria and Jerome. Definitely, if she goes or stays, she risks being murdered. Somehow, I think she will stay and divine intervention will prevent anything happening. We know from the prologue that she is the one carrying the gun which she uses on one of Carlito's men.

Clara seems to be the most fascinating character of all as she and Marcus fall in love and will eventually marry.

I'm surprised at Bastian. I knew he was dull and creepy but Carlito's boss? And he even wants Gloria killed along with Jerome. This was a shocker for me. I didn't see it coming! I can only think that the police will intervene and shut down the Green Mill and imprison Bastian and his gang of thugs.

Lorraine gets in deeper with mobsters at a different club but the owner is also Carlito. My theory, if she is to exist in the next book, will be that she will be pulled out of her situation and spend some time drying out.

Carlito is a sleaze bag and I think he and Bastian will wind up dead or in jail.

The Roaring Twenties was during the Prohibition era and classy people went to speakeasies to get their enjoyment and drinks. I used to watch Elliot Ness and the era was actually pretty messy with gangsters and police. The police raided the speakeasies to capture gangsters and any liquor they could find. So people were taking chances going to these clubs. In today's world, we are pretty much free to do anything, except the teenagers. Back in the 20's, teenagers drank themselves silly. Today, technically, teenagers are not able to drink until they are 18 in NC. But they find a way to get alcohol in some form or shape.

What is different about the 20's and today is the interacial problems. In the 20's, it was difficult for black people to exist. They formed bands and played in these speakeasies but everywhere else, they were segregated from white people. Today, we don't have the segragation or interacial problems. Interacial marriages exist today and black people can go where they choose with no problems. Today, there are racists out there and problems erupt but it's a minority now.

What changed everything back in the 20's is the capture of major gangster bosses, the shutdown of speakeasies and eventually the stock market crash in 1929 which led to the Depression.

And I did forget Vera, the one that told Bastian about Gloria. Very sneaky and sly. I never did like her character yet she adds just enough spice to the book and I hope she continues in the next book. 

[scientistsolte…]

First, thank you so much for giving the opportunity to read the book before hands and even having the opportunity to share it with Jillian.

I absolutely enjoyed the book, it was a real page turner. The ending was very good written, I can't believe Gloria murdered someone!!!! I kinda suspected about Vera but I think she crossed the line at the end!

Bastian couldn't be anymore annoying. Poor Lorraine, she is just too lost, she needds help and ASAP! Clara and Marcus, I hope they end up together although I suspect something will happen in NYC!

I can't wait for Ingenue!!!!

[KateBrianIsAwe…]

First off I would like to thank Jillian for an amazing 1920s book. I'm now a fan of historical fiction. The only historical fiction book I've read that was not required reading was The Book Thief by Markus Zusak. Also Barnes and Noble for having The First Look book club! Its nice to know that you guys do something extra for your customers. Gosh I make it sound like this is my first First Look, I've actually been participating for about two years. 

I have to agree with someone who mentioned that there really is no cliffhanger where Clara and Gloria are concerned. I really feel that Gloria is going to go to NY with Jerome. I mean she has come this far so why not? Clara will be heading home to her parents but will eventually end up in NY again with all the other characters. Perhaps she will go to college there? 

I felt really bad for Vera. I mean she was acting like a you know what, but she did have a valuable reason for it. She was trying to look out for her brother. In the end karma came for her. Bastian, wow what an evil fake! I'm surprised Gloria didn't go and knock him upside the head when she heard his conversation. I hope Lorraine can somehow turn her life around for good. 

I really enjoyed Vixen and I can't wait for Ingenue to come out already so I can read more! 

[KateBrianIsAwe…]

Oh, and another thing I thought it was sad was how Gloria and Jerome have to hide their relationship. Today biracial couples can walk out in broad daylight and no one cares. Or some people do care but its rare. The 1920s seems like a time period where you must not disappoint society, and that you have to be who you are labeled as. 

[Bonnie_C]

This book was a true delight to read.  From beginning to end I found myself looking forward to reading what was on the next page.  Well done, Jillian.

However, I did have some exasperation over Gloria at the end of the book.  She and Jerome have the confrontation with Carlito.  Jerome has to leave town.  He invites Gloria to come with him.  She goes by Bastian's apartment and overhears him telling Carlito to take care of Jerome while he takes care of Gloria.  She hears Bastian give Carlito Jerome's address.  Now I do realize that this was before the age of texting, but I would like to  think that after Gloria steals the gun she would make like the wind and go to Jerome's to tell him to get the heck somewhere far away ASAP because he has one mad gangster after him.  But instead she goes back to her house and packs and then puts on her flapper dress and make up before going to Jerome's.  Once there they take time to make out.  Not smart Gloria.  Hopefully she and Jerome will be smarter in NYC or they will not last long.

Thank you again for this most entertaining read.

Bonnie