Vixen Discussion: Part II thru p. 355 [ Edited ]

[Sarah-W]

Part II starts with a quotation from Zelda Fitzgerald, "I don't want to live, I want to love first, and live incidentally." Love is a major theme for this part of the book. Gloria admits her feelings to Jerome and they start making plans to runaway together. Clara tells Marcus about part of her past. And Lorraine reveals Clara's secret to everyone---including the press---at Gloria's engagement party.

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

[myroadsoflife]

I found out in this chapter that I really love Clara.  I love her character and her loyalty.  I liked her in the beginning, but I was a little hesitant to like her character too much because she was playing a part and at first she felt like it was her against the world.  It could have gone either way and I love that we find out she is really a great person.  I agree with the quote about love.  In my own experiences, even if it did turn out badly, I am exactly where I need to be and it all turned out better than okay.

I like to feel like Gloria and Jerome have a chance at love.  I find myself wondering what it might really be like for them day to day, though, when they are not in the club...it doesn't seem good for the times.    

Finding out that it wasn't Lorraine who revealed Gloria's secret, sadly, doesn't change my feelings about her character.  It still seems like "something I wouldn't put past her" to do and I find my self wondering what else she has done that would turn out to be equally as horrible.  I think Clara handled the revelation of her secret with grace and I could only hope I could do the same same after having been horrified in such a way. 

[ScrappyMama]

Lorraine was the obvious choice for the one to have told Bastian about Gloria, so I pretty much knew it couldn't be her that did it.  I was very surprised at who told!  I honestly didn't see that one coming.  Even knowing she didn't blab about Gloria, Lorraine did not win any points with me.  I know people like her in real life and they stop at nothing so I suspect Lorraine wouldn't either.

Clara was always my favorite character.  I was a bit surprised at what her big secret was.  I was thinking along another line.  I truly hope she and Marcus can find some happiness as I believe she deserves it.

I love how the book ended with the cliff hanger, even if I have to wait to find out Gloria's decision!  I want to root for her and Jerome, but I can only imagine how hard life will be for them if they do run off as a couple. 

[ponkle]

It would be nice to think they had a chance and love triumphs all but in this time period I think if they stayed together it would be a struggle everyday. I don't know if they could overcome that. This is one instance in the book where it would be different today than back then.

This is totally random but as I read the earlier questions and answers the link from a song sung by Janis Joplin and written by Kris Kristofferson keeps going around in my mind :"Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose"

[gackie]

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success?

I agree that love should always be given a fighting chance. I'm not sure if things will work out for Gloria & Jerome in the future, but like the saying goes ' it's better to of loved and lost then to have never loved at all'.

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

I was a little surprised that it was not Lorraine who exposed Gloria's secret to Bastion. I can understand why Vera did it even if I don't agree with her doing it because she really was just trying to protect her brother. I still can not stand Lorraine.

I can not wait for the next book in the series!!

[dhaupt]

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree? 

Sarah, I do agree and I'm reminded of the quote 

From Alfred Lord Tennyson's poem In Memoriam:27, 1850:

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

And I'm a big believer in Love is worth the cost. Which sort of answers the second part of your question

How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

but to further answer it I think that if the couple stays where Jerome as a black man is welcomed then she will be more invisible then if they were to stay in her world, which wouldn't be allowed any way. And we were shown the problems they'd have even staying in his world. The problem I have most about the couple is that Gloria is so young and what she wants now at 17 may not be what she wants at say 25 and once she steps into the role as Jerome's wife/girlfriend/lover she will have a very hard time going back to the world according to how she was raised to this point.

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

I never thought that Lorraine revealed Gloria's secret, I just still don't know who did.

And my feelings for the characters have not changed.

I still dislike Lorraine, Bastien and Gloria's mother

I'm a big fan of Clara, Marcus, Gloria and Jerome

[thecatsmeowAM]

Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

--I think that to risk your life for love at such a young age is not wise.  Of course, that wouldn't make a good story!  I think Jerome and Gloria do have a good chance of success at love though.  But I hate that their lives are now in danger because of it.  Such a shame.

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

--I dislike Lorraine very much.  I assumed she didn't tell, so that didn't play any part in why she is so evil in my mind.  I was however, very surprised by who DID tell Bastian.  She was such a behind the scenes character, which I thought was clever on Jillian's part! 

[Lavasoap]

I do agree with Clara, there are no regrets in love.  I think this heart-to-heart will lead Gloria down a path with Jerome that will end in heartbreak and quite possibly professional ruin.  Though I am hoping they live the life of love and happiness and are one of the couples that pushes the changes that have come with time. 

I'm not surprised that Lorraine didn't tell Bastian, but I was a little surprised at Clara having the baby!!!  I figured a lost child for sure.  The set-up for her character just didn't give me the impression that she would have had the time to actually birth a baby in secret.  (Also I don't know who determines the schedule, but they are pure evil to stop at that revelation) 

I'm still wishing to see Lorraine turn good, but that was a really catty thing to do to Clara and I do find my feelings towards her a little changed.  I think girls at that age are so dramatic and this set-up is a dream-come-true for revealing sordid information about someone that you feel has wronged you.  If only Lorraine could see that Marcus isn't for her and Clara didn't do anything to her, but alas I fear it is too late. 

I can't wait to finish the last section, Ingénue will never be out in time

[brilliantsunsh…]

I actually wasn't surprised by any of the revelations.  I guessed Clara's secret almost from the beginning.  I have always thought that Vera was the one to leak the secret, not Lorraine.  And I don't think that Clara is right with her quote about love.  She was "in love" with Harris, and it turned out pretty badly for her.

So far I like Clara the best, and Gloria second.  I still really don't like Lorraine at all.  This book was a little bit hard for me to get into in the first section we read, but it has really picked up since then and I'm enjoying it more.

[melNaac]

I was dying to figure out what was in Clara's dark past, I wasn't even expecting the baby possibility. I am glad she wasn't rejected like she thought she would be. I am still trying to figure out if the aunt knew that or not?

I really liked the conversation between Gloria and Clara about love, I totally agree, you have to at least try!

Though Lorraine didn't tell Bastian about the speakeasy, I am still not the biggest fan of her. Maybe I will like her more once we find out what her deal is and why she acts the way she does. I am also not liking how sleazy Bastian is! This book is so good!

[shmy]

Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

Being the romantic that I am, I agree with Clara, besides it makes the story more interesting to me. I always enjoy the star-crossed lovers part of any book, and Vixen was no exception. I do feel like I don’t know Jerome that much and that Gloria doesn’t fully understand what she is getting herself into ( I think by the time the hot chocolate incident happen she begins to grasp it though). For some reason I feel Gloria and Jerome’s chances of success are very, very low. However, I my favorite couple in the book are Clara and Marcus, loved those two!

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

 I literally gasped when Lorraine let out the whole baby news. I did! I did not anticipate that. It did not change how I felt about Clara, for better or worse. If anything I was confused. With Clara because you learn something shocking about her past and she’s a very likeable character and while I still like her that does not mean she didn’t lie and was a hypocrite. And with Lorraine, she’s wasn’t the one who lied to everyone and yet she’s still thought as the villain. I suppose it’s her methods that earned her the hate. I can say it really made it hard to like Lorraine. Throughout the book she’s jealous, but at some level you can understand why and to me it makes the character more ~real~. But her attitude toward Clara and her need for making scenes it’s a total different matter and it these two things that make it hard for me to sympathize with or just understand.  A part of me wishes Bastian and Lorraine would hook up for good and be the evil couple

[WickedAK]

---

Sarah-W wrote:

Part II starts with a quotation from Zelda Fitzgerald, "I don't want to live, I want to love first, and live incidentally." Love is a major theme for this part of the book. Gloria admits her feelings to Jerome and they start making plans to runaway together. Clara tells Marcus about part of her past. And Lorraine reveals Clara's secret to everyone---including the press---at Gloria's engagement party.

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree?

I do agree..Love is worth it as long as you have both your head and your heart in on it.

How might this impact the characters in this story?

This could change a lot. If the characters decide to make the sacrifices for love they could loose a lot and it would change who they are.

How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

During this period of time it would be a day-to-day struggle, constant judging by both races and everybody they run into. But if they are determined they could make it. Both Jerome and Gloria are very strong characters.

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

YES! I was so sure Lorraine did it even if she didn't know she had. Bastian is a coniving little butthead and I didn't doubt for a second that he would of gotten the info out of Lorraine. I never really like Bastian so that didn't change, I now have a very tiny rice grain of amount of sympathy for Lorraine, although the way she handled things was just wrong. She will get what's coming to her and it won't be good.

---

[Kittysmom]

I do believe that at this point in time, Jerome and Glo would have a very hard time of it, but they seem to really care about each other, so it would obviously be alright with them.  They are both strong characters.

It did surprise me that Lorraine did not tell Bastian about Glo singing at the Green Mill, I thought I had her pegged!

[Deltadawn]

---

Sarah-W wrote:

Part II starts with a quotation from Zelda Fitzgerald, "I don't want to live, I want to love first, and live incidentally." Love is a major theme for this part of the book. Gloria admits her feelings to Jerome and they start making plans to runaway together. Clara tells Marcus about part of her past. And Lorraine reveals Clara's secret to everyone---including the press---at Gloria's engagement party.

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

I really can't predict the chances of success for the star-crossed lovers. Sadly, I feel that it will be difficult for both couples (Gloria and Jerome / Clara and Marcus). I feel that it will be much harder for Gloria and Jerome. However, though they do face many obstacles and they are very young, they seem genuine and determined, so they have that going for them.

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

The revelations did not surprise me all that much and they certainly did not change the way I feel about the characters. Still like Clara a lot and still dislike Lorraine! Well, ok, maybe it did change my feelings towards Lorraine. Whereas I earlier had some sympathy for her, since it was obvious that she felt so insecure about herself, I now find it difficult to have sympathy for her because she is so mean spirited and hateful.

---

[Karla1717]

I agree.  Love is worth everything.  If it works out, it can be so good.  Even if things don't work out, you have experience that you can look back on and learn from.  As long as something can be learned from it, I don't think the experience would ever be a waste.  I am a little surprised at how quickly the "romance" between Jerome and Gloria progressed.  It almost feels to me like it is just infatuation, and maybe some excitement about breaking free from their old lives and starting something new on their own.  I am curious to see how their relationship will survive the test of time, and all the hardships of being a bi-racial couple.  I'm pulling for them, but I'm not feeling too positive about the situation.

Lorraine needs to put down the bottle!  Seriously, she is a mess!  She is spiraling out of control, and quickly.  What started out as a little jealousy, has turned into maliciousness.  She is an angry, bitter drunk, with no self-respect.  I honestly expect to hear that she died of exposure on a park bench in the winter, because she cant ever pull it together.  Or get involved in mob drama, because she thinks it will make her "somebody" and important, and one of them will kill her. 

I was very surprised at who revealed the secret to Bastian, and what else this person keeps telling him, but in the end, it all seems to backfire.

[AnnieBook]

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

I do agree that love is worth the risk of a broken heart.  It can be a life-changing thing and alter the way you see yourself.  At the end of it, the best you can hope for is a few learned lessons.  The female characters in this story seem are so headstrong, I know they'll take the chance for love.  I hope Clara puts down her defenses and opens up to Marcus; I hope Lorraine learns to love and appreciate herself more; I hope Gloria and Jerome ignore the social stigmas.

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

I'm still on the fence about Lorraine.  She's trying so hard to be a good friend to Gloria but you definitely see her evil streak when it comes to Clara.  Her revelation of Clara's past w/ Haris really blew me away!  I did not see that coming!  I'm curious if Clara ever told Haris she had his child?  Or did she hope to hide it and escape NY for a fresh start?

[lcnh1]

I was not surprised by Clara's secret.  Given the time period, being pregnant and unwed would have been shocking.  I do hope that she and Marcus can work it out because I do think that Clara has changed and that they have feelings for each other. 

Lorraine continues to amaze me at the levels she will go to in the name of friendship.  Telling everyone about Clara to show Gloria that it wasn't her that told Sebastian really shows that Lorraine has some issues that go beyond jealousy.  She needs some parental involvement and to stop drinnking.  I don't think she is headed for a good ending since she appears to be getting more involved with the Chicago gangster element. 

As for Gloria and Jerome, while I like them together I don't think either one of them really understands what they are in for.

[maxcat]

What Zelda Fitzgerald said was true; Love is very important to one who is starting out in life and that special someone comes along and you know it's meant to be. Gloria loves Jerome and he admits he loves her back. She wants nothing to do with Bastian and wants to leave Chicago with Jerome and go to New York. There's complications that will arise as they go to New York. Back in the 20's, black people were not allowed in certain areas. They were shunned and had separate places to eat at restaurants and going to the rest rooms. That particular time was not kind  to black people.

Lorraine was someone I picked to tell Bastian about Gloria. She wants her friendship with Gloria so badly that she breaks into the engagement party and tells all about Clara and her fabulous life in New York. Clara is horrified but what was said was true but she did not tell Bastian about Gloria's other life. Lorraine is terribly drunk  when she said all this.

I was a bit surprised by all this happening at the engagement party. Now Lorraine looks like a loser and Clara comes to light.

Up to this point, the characters remain the same except Gloria is leaning more towards Jerome than Bastian. Bastian is dull and boring and she feels that marriage to Bastian would be dreary and would  only satisfy the families involved. I see Gloria growing up some in this part. She makes hasty decisions but seems to know what she is getting into. Lorraine is a wannabe Gloria that doesn't turn out right. She drinks more and is losing total control of her life. Clara's secret life is out inthe open and I'm glad it is as I think she will pick herself up and dust of her shoes and continue with life. Marcus has been getting closer to Clara and i think he will continue to like her despite her past life.

[TudorRose]

Clara tells Gloria, "I'm no more expert on the subject than any other girl. But this much I know: Love is worth everything. If you really love someone, you'll have no regrets. Even if it turns out badly." Do you agree? How might this impact the characters in this story? How do you feel about our star-crossed lovers chances of success? 

I was struck by this passage between Gloria and Clara when I first read it.  I think, for the most part it is true.  True love is worth almost any sacrifice, but it is so hard not to have regrets, especially if you did something in the relationship that you aren't proud of or if you feel that you didn't give as much as you could have.  I was so proud of Gloria and Clara in the first two chapters of this section.  They were letting their real selves shine through and were reaching out for a real chance at a real love, not what their families or society expect them to want.  I was also proud of Lorraine when she told Bastian to get lost, but that all kind of soured for me at the engagement party.

Gloria and Clara are experiencing their first taste of true freedom here, but honestly, I'm worried about Jerome and Glo.  They have a much harder road to go than Clara and Marcus.  Jerome and Gloria will have to put up with alot of external pressures on their relationship, but if they love each other enough, I think they can get through that.  What worries me more is Gloria's age.  She is so young, I don't really think she comprehends what things will be like for her and Jerome, how hard it will be day in and day out, but I can't wait to find out.

I hope that Marcus and Clara are able to get past Lorraine's bombshell at the party.  I have a better feeling about their relationship.  I hope that Marcus is able to get past whatever shockwave is coming after Lorraine's drunken accusations. 

We also learn that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian, even as she does expose Clara's reasons for New York. Did either of these revelations surprise you? Did they change the way you feel about any of the characters?

I was not surprised that Lorraine did not reveal Gloria's secret to Bastian.  I always thought that was a little to obvious.  I WAS surprised by Clara's secret.  I did not think there would be a baby out there.  I can't wait to find out what happened to the baby and what Clara will do to make things right.  Did Harris know?  I doubt it.  Is Lorraine telling the truth?  I think probably she is although it would be in character for her to make up something that horrific to make Clara look bad.  Lorraine has completely lost it and whatever empathy I had for her earlier is quickly erroding.  She is acting completely on impulse without any thought for anyone other than herself.  She is selfish, self-absorbed and is drinking way too much.  I am worried that the aftermath of the engagement party will send her to either Carlito (yuck) or Bastian (double yuck).  I think things could end very badly for her at the end of the book.

Can't wait to finish up the last section and find out how it all turns out.

[vpenning]

I was shocked to learn of the baby, but not shocked to learn Lorraine did not reveal the secret. I am starting to think that Bastian frequents the club often enough that he himself saw Gloria there. He is turning out to be quite the bad boy...and not in a good way.

I think that most folks truly believe in the better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all...but, it is painful.

However, that said, I do not know if love is enough for Gloria and Jerome. Too many barriers on both sides of the fence. Love and relationships are hard enough when you have everything in your favor...but, to have strikes after strikes against you...it makes the relationship on the downwards spiral before it even had a chance to become anything.

At present I do not like the characters of Bastian or Lorraine. Not in that they are poorly written, but in that they are not folks I would like to meet on any give day....good work on the author's part, as I believe she intended me to feel this way.

I am suspicious of Marcus. I am still not convinced that he truly cares for Clara.

I am also anxious to see how Clara will make out with this new scandal. In that day and age...that kind of thing is a life breaker.