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DSaff
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I love the Jessica Rabbit picture.  :smileyvery-happy:


MissShopaholic wrote:

Well to start off - I'm totally proud for Gloria.  I'm imagining a Jessica Rabbit with a bob. :smileyhappy:

 


 

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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Jillian-Larkin
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 


MissShopaholic wrote:

Well to start off - I'm totally proud for Gloria.  I'm imagining a Jessica Rabbit with a bob. :smileyhappy:

 

Vera has a right to be protective... Her female intuition is kicking in and if she doesn't set Gloria straight, who knows what kind of controversy can ensue- given that time and place in history.... Furthermore, Men being Men, Jerome might be tempted to take a bite from the apple, so to speak, and with a girl as pretty as Gloria around.... who knows what might happen. I'm just saying. Vera just doesn't want the drama.

 

I'm not surprised that Clara's Cad is who he is... she was really caught up in the flapper, speakeasy scene when she was in New York that I wouldn't have expected anything or anyone less than someone like him. Glo and Raine got nothin' on her. Oh, if those two only knew!!! I keep thinking how Clara is the real deal and can't wait to see what happens when the cats outta the bag.

 

Marcus- Well I'm still not sure that his feelings for Clara are truly genuine or not. Maybe he truly has fallen for Clara or maybe- just maybe- he's jealous because for the first time the girl isn't chasing after him... like maybe he feels that his attempt at seduction has failed and is upset over that. I think it would be romantic though if he did have a thing for clara...

 

I'm excited for part II! can't wait!


 

Ha, I was just about to stop commenting for the night, then I saw "I'm totally proud for Gloria.  I'm imagining a Jessica Rabbit with a bob."  That is fantastic! I'm a redhead as well and always flirted with the idea of being Jessica Rabbit for Halloween.  I haven't taken the plunge yet (I've been a flapper multiple times, big surprise, I know) but maybe I will next year. I can spend the next twelve months trying to convince my boyfriend to don a rabbit costume :smileyhappy:

 

Also, to everyone else, feel free to ask me some direct questions on any of the boards as the weeks go on. You guys are carrying on such a great discussion, and I worry that I might unintentionally spoil things for you when I just jump in.

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pen21
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

This section brought us so much more information about each character. There is so much packed in Part 1 of the book.
I think Bastian just went to the club.  Bastian is a man of his era, Bastian could do what he wanted even if it was illegal. Bastian viewed his future wife as a possesion and that Gloria would obey him.
I view Lorraine as very naive. I don't think she was prepared to handle someone coming on to her the way Bastian did.  Yes Lorraine wanted to be a flapper and do things a debutante shouldn't do. But I think Lorraine has gotten in over her head. I felt bad for Lorraine when she was blamed for Bastian showing up. Everyone in Gloria's circle of friends plus anyone at the club who know who Gloria was,  could have told Bastian or Bastian just showed up at the club with friends.

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SSDailey
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I am absolutely loving Vixen. I have been somewhat obsessed with the 1920s for several years now.

 

Just a couple things. Someone mentioned that the situation with Clara and Harris was overshadowed by Bastian arriving at the Green Mill and snatching Gloria off the stage. Honestly, I think that the appearance of Harris is just leading into something bigger with Clara. I have a feeling that there is still more about this situation that hasn't come out yet.

 

Another thing...has anyone else noticed that the spelling of Bastian's last name changes from Grey to Gray a few different times?

 

Hey Jillian, I'm just wondering if you have any idea how many books will be in this series? I absolutely love it and would be happy to read a dozen of them (or more).

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Tarri
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 

 

The second half of Part I contains a lot of action and surprises:

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? Meanwhile, the mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill.

 

I have to agree with Clara, I'm not sure if Marcus really likes Clara or if it's part the joke.  All I know is that I am hoping that Marcus likes the real Clara, who I believe may be more Country Clara than she realizes.  She is most definitely my favorite person in this book.

 

I was surprised when the sender revealed himself, it was so much less sinister than I thought.  I really thought it was Aunt Bea trying to keep Clara in line and under her thumb. 

 

Gloria is sneaking around to rehearse with Jerome for her debut at the Green Mill. She definitely has feelings for Jerome, but knows her family would never approve. She must also contend with Jerome's jealous sister Vera who wants Gloria as far away from her brother as possible.

 

I get the impression that Vera is not only jealous, but also a bit disapproving of Gloria and has the idea that Jerome will be better off with one of Vera's friends.

 

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

 

I know I am the only one here, but I really feel just a little bit sorry for Lorraine, everything she touches explodes on her.  I know she has brought a lot of her problems on herself, but you wonder where the parents of these young people are and if this type of hands off parenting is indicative of the wealthy during this time period. 

 

I don't think she will get even with Gloria, and it looks like she is going to ruin herself and cause havoc for all her [used to be] friends. 

 

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

I was not surprised by the identity of Clara's cad, I hope he doesn't get to her again and that she and Marcus end up together. 

No, I don't think Vera's protectiveness is justified.  Jerome is old enough to make his own decisions; however, I think family members are protective of each other. I know I am with my three sisters.  

I think Lorraine tipped off Bastian during her drunken visit. I don't think she meant to, but this book sure brings home the effectiveness of a minimum legal drinking age. 

 

 

Welcome Jill and thank you for sharing your book with us.  I, for one, cannot wait to finish The Vixen and read the next chapter. 

 

 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I love everyone's theories about who tipped off Bastien. Keep them coming! Bastien is clearly hiding much more than it originally appears!

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Sarah-W
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Re: Quotes

 

Becktrek... this was one of those moments that gave me a pause of sympathy for Lorraine. Lorraine is trying to appear to be sophisticated, but she may not be completely aware of how vulnerable the image she's giving off might make her...

Becktrek wrote:

Those quotes all caught my eye as well Donna, but this one by Lorraine really caught my attention:

 

Page 173 when Lorraine was trying to get into The Green Mill after following Gloria in the car:

 

"If you let me inside, I won't be alone" (Lorraine to the "eye" in the door).

"All right" the Eye said. "There's always room for a working girl"

"Lorraine didn't really know what he meant by that - working girl? She had a trust fund' she'd never worked a day in her life!"

 

I couldn't believe she didn't know what he meant by that - with all the pretense she puts up that she is so worldly and flapper-like.  And then when Carlito pays attention to her she thinks it's due to her "sophistication".  Am I wrong in thinking that he ALSO thinks she is a working girl and someone he can pick up?  What do you all think?  Am I reading too much into this?  Attention from Carlito can only be major trouble IMO!

 

Becky in IN


 

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vpenning
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 


thewanderingjew wrote:

 


Sarah-W wrote:
edited by twj:...

 

Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

I am going out on a limb here. I think that Cad tipped Bastian off, not Lorraine, although she does get blamed. Clara knew too, so my guess would be either she or Cad. Somehow, I think Cad is the link between the characters. I think he had to know one of them in order to find her and he had to use one of them to place the notes inside the house. 


Very intersting and plausible theory....Something for me to think about as I am reading the next section.

 

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I_heart_you
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Ooooh lots of good stuff going on here! Things have really picked up speed! While the first part of the book was good, part two is even better! 

 

I was totally unsurprised about the identity of "The Cad"... From what we've heard about her, Clara seems to be a "Go big, or go home" type of girl... or at least she used to be. She seems to be realizing that type of life has actually cost her more than time spent in jail. It cost her trust in the eyes of her family and also her own trust in loving someone. I'm interested to find out what happens after that kiss.

 

As for Vera and Jerome, I feel her protectiveness is totally justified. Primarily because Glo is actually attracted to him, but also because of the racial stigma. A relationship between the two of them would cause them only trouble. And Gloria would never have a place to fit: She would be shunned by other socialites and probably her whole family and she's obviously not welcome in Jerome's family. If she and Jerome were to actually have a relationship, it would be very, very hard on them, and Vera seems to want to spare Jerome the hurt that would ensue.

 

 

Bastian, Bastian... now here is a mystery. Just can't tell for sure what's going on with this guy. I've got two ideas of how he found out about Gloria and the Green Mill. I'm wondering if maybe Harris Brown might have spilled the beans... Wouldn't that be an interesting plot twist? He obviously has connections and he was not only able to find Clara, but to get notes to her inside Gloria's house! Doesn't seem to far fetched he was able to figure out who Gloria's fiance is. The other thing, I'm wondering about is Bastian himself. We really don't know anything about him, except that he is "for" the prohibition and still drinks and that he has no concept of fidelity. I'm wondering where he gets his liquor. Could his supplier have recognized Gloria and put two and two together? Can't wait to find out.

 

I really am enjoying this book! Can't wait for the rest!

I'm a geek and I love it!
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Purple_kitty23
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I love this book so far!  I am so tempted to read ahead, but I won't.  I can't wait for Jill Larkin to join us!

 

I think that for once, Marcus actually even remotely likes one of his dates.  I wonder what will happen if she tells him the truth.  Clara's cab surprised me.  I wonder why he waited to reveal himself so long, when he could have just shown up any other time.  Although it was probably better that way because then not to many people would know.

 

I think that Lorraine is taking it all a little too seriously.  She should calm down about everything that does not go her way.  Gloria is growing up faster than she is and Lorraine does not like it.  Lorraine is probably only going to end up hurting her self.

 

I think that Vera is concerned that if Gloria parents find out about Jerome, something bad might happen to him.  I think that maybe Bastian is kind of over protective and after she started acting strangely, he decided to follow Gloria to make sure she was okay.

 

 

Purple_kitty23 : )
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gabi823
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

[ Edited ]

I am loving what everyone is saying so far, I guess I am gullable and just believe Lorraine when she said she didn't tell Bastian, but a lot of people seem to think it was her, I guess we will find out. I really think her and Bastian deserve each other and hope that Gloria is not forced to marry him!

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

It occurred to me that perhaps the kind of person Clara is will show through regardless of what persona she's wearing... I wonder if the same thing could be said of the rest of the characters. What do you think?


lcnh1 wrote:
Clara has been my favorite character so far as well.  At first she was a little annoying with the playacting that she was doing - trying to be country Clara.  As time went on though, I think its becoming less of an act.  She still misses her other life but unlike the other girls, she knows the dangers of the lifestyle they want to lead.  I think the person that she is pretending to be is really the type of person that she is.

 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 

I love your theory about Clara's cad. That would have made a very different kind of story.

ccshealy wrote:

I actually was very surprised by the identity of Clara's Cad.  For some reason, after reading the scene with Lorraine and Bastian at Bastian's apartment, I suddenly got this feeling that the Cad would somehow turn out to be Bastian and that Gloria's anger would end up directed at Clara rather than Lorraine.  I thought I had cleverly figured it all out, so yes I was surprised!

 

I was also very intrigued in this section by the scene in which Lorraine shows Gloria her dad's gun cabinet and even takes one of the guns out and shows it to her.  I wondered if this is where the handgun in the prologue scene will eventually come from?  Coming on the heels of Gloria's comment that "if Bastian ever touched another girl, I would get a gun and shoot him dead," and Lorraine's decision not to tell Gloria about kissing Bastian, I am really in suspense about where the scene from the prologue will eventually lead. 

 

I can't wait to keep reading and find out what happens next!

~Carissa


 

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bookrooted
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke?

 

-I like to believe as the night goes on that he was putting on a lot of work for a "joke" and that he treated her differently in a way not to fool, but as hidden affection or sincere interest.

 

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

 

-She is doing far less than get even with Gloria. She's only sinking lower and lower despite my hopes from earlier. I want to shake her and make her realize that what she thinks is right obviously hasn't helped in the past! Part of me still hopes she can change-any enlightenment -but when i read that part when she was with Bastian a lot of the hope went to pity/disgust. She's on the road to ruin but there could always be an upside....maybe.....

 

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

 

-I'm not surprised Clara was with a gangster. That had been my guess or a musician or performer (now sort of like how Gloria is liking Jerome). Vera's protectiveness is understandable. She doesn't want to risk anything on one girl and i admired her boldness-it was understandable since the siblings worked hard throughout their lives-at least i assume-and with Gloria in the picture everything could easily go wrong and ruin Vera's life. Understandable. I think Raine-sadly-tipped off Bastian when they were together and had a "..." moment. You automatically jump to those conclusions of outcomes in those situations and my hopes for Lorraine only get smaller and smaller as her bitter character comes out more and she pushes away the responsible and just right character and obvious decisions she should be making if she thought of someone besides her dramatic teenage life and looked at the bigger picture. Hopefully Gloria does the same thing-I like Jerome, but its a big something-bad-is-going-to-come-from-this feeling, especially in her society and life.

----------------------------------------------
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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

As I'm thinking about how Marcus treats Clara and how Carlito treats Lorraine, I'm reminded of what my mother always said about how people treat us the way they think we expect to be treated.... Marcus is able to be more sincere around 'Country Clara' whereas Lorraine's attempts at sophistication get her mistaken for something she definitely is not.

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literature
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 

 

Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

I think Jill has made it very clear that Lorraine would be the obvious suspect.  She is looking for a way to get even with Gloria but yet when she has the perfect opportunity at Bastian's apartment, she felt guilt and knew she couldn't rat on her friend, no matter what.  Page 185-186, "And she didn't know what she wanted anymore.  She didn't want to give her virginity to Bastian, she knew that much, but her head felt stuffed with cotton balls and she was definitely a bit zozzled...and his hand felt so nice."  Then on page 264, "Her mouth just motored along on its own."  Then on page 266, "Lorraine's brain was racing---she hadn't said anything to Bastian when she had gone over there drunk, had she?  No, she would never do that to Gloria, even in her most incoherent state."..."I don't get it--who would do such a thing?"  All these passages lead you to believe it was Lorraine.  She had the motives and it was within Lorraine's makeup to do this.  To me, it seems too obvious so I ruled out Lorraine.

 

Now take Bastian.  He may give the illusion of being prim and proper and a great catch but is he really?  No.  He is calculating and sarcastic and uncaring.  He speaks out against Prohibition but hides a bottle in a hallowed out dictionary.  His explanation to Lorraine is that "there is a difference of what you do in the privacy of your own home and what you display to the public eye."  His facade is already breaking down.  Then he comes on to his fiance's best friend, places his hand on her thigh and kisses her.  Bastian crashes the Green Mill, screaming that he would close them down for violating prohibition and that he wanted what belonged to him; namely, Gloria. 

 

Now you have to think, how did Bastian know about the Green Mill and its whereabouts?  If he came on to Lorraine, how many other women were there and were any of them flappers from the Green Mill?  Lief knew about Gloria but I can't see any connection between Lief and Bastian.  So that leaves the only other character that keeps popping up...Carlito.  Carlito is a gangster.  Bastian has no money.  His father gambled away whatever money they had.  Could his father have gambled at the Green Mill?  Was his father and/or Bastian somehow tied in with Carlito?  I will have to keep on reading!

 

 

 

 


 

 

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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

It's been bothering me that Lorraine or Gloria would take their father's car late at night and no one ever heard the car engine.  Yet, after Marcus left Clara's room, "Clara heard Marcus's car start up in the drive."  Amazing, or did it just fit the script at that point?

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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I wrote in an earlier posting the first week:

 

"The prologue sets the stage for things to come.  Often you read the prologue, try to remember everything and then it tends to take a back seat as the plot thickens.  The one thing that actually struck a familiar cord was on page 41, "Gloria's hair swept across her forehead like a crinkled autumn leaf, billowing over one's sea-green eye before delicately ending..."  Then I went back to the prologue, "She stared into the mirror.  Everything was perfection:  green eyes smoldering, checkbones rouged..."  Could the prologue be describing Gloria?  I don't remember reading any descriptions of Lorraine's or Clara's eyes, just Marcus's blue eyes and it would be out of context for Marcus to be dressed in drag.  Any thoughts?"

 

 

I just want to continue my thoughts on the prologue.

Two other descriptions came up in the second week's reading.  On page 227, Lorraine reveals to Gloria about her lavendar garter and the flask she keeps there snugly against her leg.  Also, in the same chapter she explains to Gloria where the keys are kept for opening up her father's hidden gun collection as she physically goes through the motions of doing it and reveals all the different guns nicely displayed.  We also learn that Lorraine has dull hazel eyes.  Could the description of green eyes be referring to eye makeup rather than eye color?

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TudorRose
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Wow, quite a few surprises in this section, especially the last chapter.  Can't wait to see what the section will reveal...
 
Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? Meanwhile, the mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill.
 
I think that Clara and Marcus and really falling for each other, but they are letting their personas get in the way.  Marcus started his flirtation with Clara as a way to get her out of town and out of their hair, but his feelings quickly became real.  Clara has real feelings for Marcus, but she has been so hurt by the men in her past, especially "The Cad", that she doesn't trust him or herself. 
The scene where "The Cad" is revealed as Harris Brown, a tony NYC businessman was a little bit of a surprise.  I thought the person sending the notes might have been a little closer to home.  To reiterate something on the Section 1 board, it is really creepy how Harris is getting the notes in the Carmody house.  Can't wait to see how this is resolved. 
 

 Gloria is sneaking around to rehearse with Jerome for her debut at the Green Mill. She definitely has feelings for Jerome, but knows her family would never approve. She must also contend with Jerome's jealous sister Vera who wants Gloria as far away from her brother as possible.

 

Gloria and Jerome are definitely attracted to each other, but are afraid to act on their feelings.  Gloria for societal reasons, perhaps Jerome is holding back because he is worried about the backlash their relationship will cause.  He might be concerned about losing his day job and main source of income as a piano teacher to the socialite set and maybe also for his and Gloria's physical safety.

 

I think that Jerome's sister Vera is very tough and protective of her big brother.  Makes me wonder what has happened in his past.  Why is she so aggressively protective of him where Gloria is concerned?  I hope to see more of her character as the story progresses.  I think that Vera is less jealous of Gloria than she is concerned/worried about her big brother's feelings.

 

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

 

I am most worried about the fate of Lorraine as the novel progresses.  She is a difficult character to like, but she is very complicated and she behaves the way she does for a reason.  When I first read about her indiscretion with Bastian, I thought it would be perfect if they somehow ended up married and making each other miserable.  But, as I got deeper into the section, I realized that not even Raine deserved to me with Bastian.  What a soul-sucking leech he is.  His character is the most unlikable for me.  I think that Raine has an opportunity to redeem herself and to really grow up and make a change for the better.  Bastian, for me, is just horrible.  I haven't disliked a character this much since Jillian in "The Writer's Circle".  I am curious as to how he found out about Glo singing at the Green Mill.  My two favorite theories right now... Harris Brown told him since he has been following Clara around and could be privy to Gloria's sneaking around at the speakeasy or Jerome in a misguided attempt to keep Gloria safe.

 

I think that Raine is begging for trouble as far as Carlito goes.  I think he sees her as more sophisticated and experienced then she really is and this could get her in quite a bit of trouble in the future.

 

I hated the scene where Gloria and Bastian went out to dinner.  He is so cruel and controlling.  I was proud of Gloria when she ordered cake for dinner and loved her comeback that her father was paying for it, so she should have what she wants.  First glimmers of real independence for Miss Gloria! :smileywink:

 

I can't wait to find out what happens next!  Sticking to the schedule has been hard, but I'm glad I'm taking my time with the book.  Now to see what the rest of the readers thought about this section.  I'm sure there are lots of great comments.


 

 Author Jill Larkin joins us this week, so please welcome her to the board!

 

Welcome Jillian.  Really enjoying your novel.  I typically read Medieval and Renaissance historical fiction, but I think a new interest may be developing here!  Thanks for sharing your work with all of us. 

Kimberly from Ohio

"A room without a book is like a body without a soul"
~Marcus Tullius Cicero
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TudorRose
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Re: Quotes

I got the exact same impression from this chapter.  Shows just how sheltered Lorraine is, even though she tries to put out this sophisticated and post persona.

 

Also, when Lorraine is following Gloria in the car, doesn't it occur to her that Gloria might not know it is her and become frightened by the tailgating car behind her?  Just another example of how self-centered Lorraine is becoming.

 

 


Becktrek wrote:

Those quotes all caught my eye as well Donna, but this one by Lorraine really caught my attention:

 

Page 173 when Lorraine was trying to get into The Green Mill after following Gloria in the car:

 

"If you let me inside, I won't be alone" (Lorraine to the "eye" in the door).

"All right" the Eye said. "There's always room for a working girl"

"Lorraine didn't really know what he meant by that - working girl? She had a trust fund' she'd never worked a day in her life!"

 

I couldn't believe she didn't know what he meant by that - with all the pretense she puts up that she is so worldly and flapper-like.  And then when Carlito pays attention to her she thinks it's due to her "sophistication".  Am I wrong in thinking that he ALSO thinks she is a working girl and someone he can pick up?  What do you all think?  Am I reading too much into this?  Attention from Carlito can only be major trouble IMO!

 

Becky in IN


 

Kimberly from Ohio

"A room without a book is like a body without a soul"
~Marcus Tullius Cicero