Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

[LorettaP]

Hello everyone. Let me start out by saying that I have read the whole book. It was such a great read that I could not put it down. Don't worry I won't spoil it for those of you that stayed on schedule with the group.

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? I have a hard time believing that he is genuine in his feelings for Clara. Marcus is a playboy and he will be leaving for New York for school soon. I think Clara is just a distraction for him.

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process? I don't think she will ever get even with Gloria or be on Gloria's level. Gloria has a inner grace that Lorraine will never have. I think she will ruin herself in her quest to be Gloria.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill? I am surprised by Clara's cad. I would have suspected that she was the love interest of a New York gangster. I do not think that Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified. Why is she so possesive of her brother? He is a black musician in the 20's that plays in speak easy's. A guy that worldly does not need his sister to watch over him. The description of the two of them in book makes them seem unnaturally close. It makes me question her true feelings for her brother. I wish there was a little more of a back story of their family life. Some little clue as to why she acts that way.

[Lizard16]

Hello,

This book has a few plot twists that's for sure.  It keeps me guessing.  So far I have to say it is a great book...a little slow in the beginning but it is really taking off...thanks for sharing your story with us Ms. Larkin.

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? Meanwhile, the mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill.

In the beginning I think his feelings were part of an elaborate joke.  Now I think he is honestly falling for her.  I am still wondering who his accomplice is since the notes keep showing up inside her room.  I doubt that he is sneaking in there and leaving them.  I would have liked to have seen this plot drawn out a little more.  I think there is too much going on at the club that night and so it is difficult for that information to have the full impact that I thought it deserved.

Gloria is sneaking around to rehearse with Jerome for her debut at the Green Mill. She definitely has feelings for Jerome, but knows her family would never approve. She must also contend with Jerome's jealous sister Vera who wants Gloria as far away from her brother as possible.

I honestly think that Gloria is still trying to rebel against her forced marriage and Jerome represents the danger that she has lacked in her life.  Vera is only trying to protect her brother from this crazy girl that has all of a sudden shown up in her life.  However, I don't trust Vera one bit.  I am wondering if she has connections elsewhere or recognizes her from the newspapers.....

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

Lorraine is seriously on the path to total destruction.  I am truly worried about her.  I don't dislike her and I think she is just innocent enough to be getting herself in too deep.  She needs to stay away from Carlito.....he will eat her alive.  Bastian is way too cunning.  I think there is more there than meets the eyes.  He is obviously not the upstanding citizen that he portrays.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

I am not surprised by the cad, but I thought he would have been part of the mob and not high society.  Yes I believe that Vera's protectiveness is justified.  I wouldn't be surprised she didn't play a role in tipping off Bastian.  I think there are a few suspects in that area.  Suspect 1: Marcus to look out for his little sis. Suspect 2:  Carlito.  The reason why is because Bastian is either a part of the MOB or he owes the mob.  Suspect 3: the Cad because society has a reputation to uphold.  Suspect 4:  the bartender and Vera looking out for their piano man.

Only time will tell!!!

[emperatrix]

I liked the development between Clara and Marcus in this point in the story, but I was a bit let down by the big reveal when we learned who "the Cad" was... maybe, I was just reading too much into it; I thought the mystery would be a bit more complex.

I would have liked to have seen more of Vera... perhaps in another book? hint hint? She has such a strong personality compared to the other girls. I would like to know more about her reasons for being so protective. 

[Sarah-W]

This is a very interesting theory.

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All-Things-Stephen-King wrote:

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Personally I think Bastian came in with Clara's Cad and it just so happened to be on the night of Gloria's debut.  Now that we have a name for the Cad and know he's the son of a very wealthy business man in New York, it would make sense that they might be business associates.  Business associate friend comes into town, wants a night of fun on the town, conveniences the not-as-dull-as-he-looks Sebastian to go to a speakeasy, and bam, fate steps in and takes care of the rest.  All conjecture of course...

[hessteria]

You are correct, things sure are heating up.

The Country Clara that everyone knows is interesting to me. Clara tries so hard to be what she thinks is "something she's not" or "someone else". I think she is truly finding herself, and will find with a little bit on honesty that she didn't know herself before.  She was busy running away from the life expected of her.  I believe Marcus is falling for Clara. The real Clara that her and Marcus are just getting to know.

I started to think Lorraine was coming around, and then she disappointed me again. She is the type of socialite persona that Clara and Gloria are trying to keep themselves from becoming. 

I'm not sure who tipped off Bast..ardian.  I'm sure it's not going to be as simple as him coming in to the Green Mile to drink and listen to music only to find his fiance on stage... but, hmmm.  Maybe he's not as innocent as he makes us think.

I think Vera has every right to be worried, and let's hope Jerome doesn't get hurt at the end.

It's been very hard to stop reading.  Wonderful questions!

[hessteria]

Vera...  didn't think of her as the one who tipped off Bastian.  Interesting thought

[TudorRose]

hessteria,

Bast..ardian!  LOL - That is so funny, and so true.

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hessteria wrote:

You are correct, things sure are heating up.

The Country Clara that everyone knows is interesting to me. Clara tries so hard to be what she thinks is "something she's not" or "someone else". I think she is truly finding herself, and will find with a little bit on honesty that she didn't know herself before.  She was busy running away from the life expected of her.  I believe Marcus is falling for Clara. The real Clara that her and Marcus are just getting to know.

I started to think Lorraine was coming around, and then she disappointed me again. She is the type of socialite persona that Clara and Gloria are trying to keep themselves from becoming. 

I'm not sure who tipped off Bast..ardian.  I'm sure it's not going to be as simple as him coming in to the Green Mile to drink and listen to music only to find his fiance on stage... but, hmmm.  Maybe he's not as innocent as he makes us think.

I think Vera has every right to be worried, and let's hope Jerome doesn't get hurt at the end.

It's been very hard to stop reading.  Wonderful questions!

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[Kim-sterr]

I should never have read all the other posts first. WOW!! I love this book. I really like Marcus and Clara together. I hope that she will eventually figure out who she is. She really is my favorite character in this book. Lorraine is the character everybody love to hate. I think she will get even with Gloria and ruin herself in the process.  I'm still on the fence about Vera. I think she is jutified to be protective of her brother but I don't like her method. I'm not sure who tipped Bastian off as this point but he is such a JERK!! As for Clara's cad I too am not surprised that he is some rich guy.

[amusingmother]

Marcus has already been set up for the reader as a player.  I don't see much really happening in the long run between the two of them.  Clara isn't being honest about herself.

 Lorraine's character is always fighting against something.  She still doesn't stand for anything.  She seems to know what she wants less and less and struggles with her own self image.  Who is Lorraine? Her identification seems to always be based upon another character.  She is Gloria's gutsy friend who dared to get a bob.  She is Marcus' friend which makes her valuable to many of the girls.  Lorraine as herself is not yet tangible.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

The revelation of Clara's cad didn't move me one way or the other.  He's clearly a dangerous character to be stalking her which makes me worry about her.   She's the one character that seems most developed.

Vera is very justified in her concern with Jerome's involvement with Gloria.  Jerome, gifted hands aside, is still a poor, black man in an oppressive environment.  His choices are limited.  Gloria is high society.  She can drop Jerome, broken hearted at any time. 

[Vermontcozy]

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Sarah-W wrote:

This is a very interesting theory.

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All-Things-Stephen-King wrote:

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Personally I think Bastian came in with Clara's Cad and it just so happened to be on the night of Gloria's debut.  Now that we have a name for the Cad and know he's the son of a very wealthy business man in New York, it would make sense that they might be business associates.  Business associate friend comes into town, wants a night of fun on the town, conveniences the not-as-dull-as-he-looks Sebastian to go to a speakeasy, and bam, fate steps in and takes care of the rest.  All conjecture of course...

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I never thought of that..It could be just a coincidence...and the plot thickens;;

[Atreyu59]

TudorRose

I thought something more was wrong with Clara as well - I considered her being pregnant as well, and was not surprised about the outcome further along in the book.  

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TudorRose stated

         I thought that Clara might be pregnant at the beginning of the novel.  When she first arrives at the Carmody house she feels nauseated, but then I decided I was reading too much into that.  Maybe there was a pregnancy that she lost before arriving in Chicago.  Something else to ponder!

[flouncyninja]

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Lavasoap wrote:

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literature wrote:

Now you have to think, how did Bastian know about the Green Mill and its whereabouts?  If he came on to Lorraine, how many other women were there and were any of them flappers from the Green Mill?  Lief knew about Gloria but I can't see any connection between Lief and Bastian.  So that leaves the only other character that keeps popping up...Carlito.  Carlito is a gangster.  Bastian has no money.  His father gambled away whatever money they had.  Could his father have gambled at the Green Mill?  Was his father and/or Bastian somehow tied in with Carlito?  I will have to keep on reading!

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 I love that you brought up Leif, because in the back of my mind I kept thinking what about the bartender!  He seemed pretty nice and chatty with Gloria, so maybe he was concerned and notified Bastian.  While we haven't seen a direct connection I pointed out that Bastian has to be getting his supply of liquor from someone.  Even if they don't know each other a big society engagement means their photo is probably in all the papers, so if he's not the supplier he could still have recognized Gloria.  Heck maybe he recognized her and knew that Sebastian's public prohibition stance could bring the Green Mill down if he found out later, so he notified him to save his job. 

Oh the possibilities! This book is wonderful

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It just dawned on me that Leif was there talking to Gloria the first time she was there, still wearing her engagement ring when that creepy guy hit on her.  Maybe that tipped him off that something was a bit off with Gloria.  I don't think Leif would give her up to Bastian, but I think he might be more aware of the situation than it appears, especially if he has some sort of supplier connection to Bastian.

[flouncyninja]

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All-Things-Stephen-King wrote:

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flouncyninja wrote:

So... that got exciting!  I had to force myself to put the book down and go to bed at the end of part one.  I have a feeling there might be a minor time jump in our future, but I don't know how long or how much will have changed, if anything.

I found it curious that Gloria immediately jumped to the conclusion that Lorraine gave her up to Bastian.  Why wouldn't she think that Clara had passed on the word regarding the phone call she received before Gloria got home from school?  Why choose your best friend over someone who might have more to gain by throwing you under the bus?  It seemed a bit sudden and a jump in logic for Glorida, but then again, her carefully constructed fantasy world was falling around her head, so maybe logic wasn't really a top priority.

Personally I think Bastian came in with Clara's Cad and it just so happened to be on the night of Gloria's debut.  Now that we have a name for the Cad and know he's the son of a very wealthy business man in New York, it would make sense that they might be business associates.  Business associate friend comes into town, wants a night of fun on the town, conveniences the not-as-dull-as-he-looks Sebastian to go to a speakeasy, and bam, fate steps in and takes care of the rest.  All conjecture of course...

Clara is still my favorite, the way she's playing everyone to her advantage - getting all the high society ladies to love her and invite her over for social gatherings, doing everything to pull Marcus in by pushing him away (you always want what you can't easily get), and best of all, pushing all the right buttons on Lorraine to get dolled up for the singing debut and make it look like it's someone else's fault/idea.  She's very clever and I think her year in New York not only matured her, but made her very street smart.  She can read people and use that to her advantage.  I'm a little disappointed that all the strength and maturity disappeared the moment the Cad appeared, though it's understandable.  There's always that one guy who can make you go funny in the head.

I always though that Jerome say through Gloria's ruse of being a poor country girl, since from the very beginning he guessed that she was a spoiled rich white girl.  I guess he bought in as well or was he just trying to save face with his mobster bosses?

And Lorraine, stop hanging out with the baby mobster.  STOP IT!  His attentions might be nice, but look what he did to poor Maude - sucked the life out of her like he's a real life incubus.

Still loving this book and can't wait to move on.  It's getting very exciting!

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OMG flouncyninja that didn't even occur to me.  You are probably right about that.  That would be very interesting if Bastian personally knew the cad from NY.  We'll have to see who he knows.

I love your perspective on all the characters especially your post on Lorraine. lol 

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The two guys tied together in my head because, when the commotion started, Bastian was at the bar near Clara.  Lorraine and Marcus are watching Clara with this strange man, when someone starts yelling at the bar.  I guess just the proximity and the two events happening within minutes of each other tied the two "important" young men of business together in my head.

I'm really curious to how Maude went from happy flapper to shell-of-a-girl.  Is Carlito running a prostitution ring through the speakeasy that she got caught up in?  Is that Lorraine's fate if she doesn't get far, far away from him?  I kind of like Lorraine, despite all her very teenager qualities of jealousy and selfishness.  I don't want her to become a mobster puppet.

[reader76]

I think that Marcus's interest in Clara was intentional at first but I think he ends up liking her more than he thought. Clara is very cautious with attention from Marcus at the beginning and it is quite unsure of herself with her new identity as Country Clara. She thinks that Marcus is toying with her but she does eventually given into his charms. Who knows where it can go? I am excited to find out. Gloria did take big step in trying out for the singing gig at Green Mill. I see her as a girl stuck in her traditional life as a good girl trying to break out and spread her wings. In the process she has feelings for Jerome who is a taboo in her world. The books shows that there is no boundary for human emtion excluding color or race. I don't think that Vera had a right to intervene in her brothers life. It wasn't like he was in mortal danger getting involved with Gloria. Her decision to intervene i think would turn bad later on. Raine shows her true color as a person who is petty, jealous, and shallow. She is self involved and does not prove herself as a good friend. She likes playing with fire and feels least bit of moral obligations as a person. She is unloved and i think that is why she acts that way.

[maxcat]

Sarah-W wrote:

This is a very interesting theory. All-Things-Stephen-King wrote:

Personally I think Bastian came in with Clara's Cad and it just so happened to be on the night of Gloria's debut.  Now that we have a name for the Cad and know he's the son of a very wealthy business man in New York, it would make sense that they might be business associates.  Business associate friend comes into town, wants a night of fun on the town, conveniences the not-as-dull-as-he-looks Sebastian to go to a speakeasy, and bam, fate steps in and takes care of the rest.  All conjecture of course...

I think that is a very probable thing that happened. Harris Brown just happens to be associated to Bastion and they go clubbing. Sebastion sees Gloria and Harris sees Clara. This does make sense and therefore no one told Bastion about Gloria's new career.

[mystrelle]

I have to agree with Zia01.  I think Marcus' feelings for Clara might be real.  I think he senses that there is more to her than meets the eye and that intrigues him.  Also, in the 1st part of Part One, I got the impression that girls pretty much threw themselves at Marcus, and I think he finds something alluring in the idea of having to chase a girl instead of being chased himself.

I understand Vera's protectiveness towards her brother whom she seems to be pretty close to.  Also, in the era in which the book is set, engaging in an interracial relationship could have dangerous consequences for the people involved, but it is more dangerous for Jerome than Gloria because of the horrible prejudices that were so prevalent at this period in history.  I think it is natural for Vera to want to keep her brother safe.

I think Lorraine's vindictiveness is going to have consequences for both her and Gloria.  At the rate she's going, she is well on her way to destroying herself.  However, she has the potential to destroy Gloria also, although perhaps not in the way we might all be expecting.

Honestly, I think there is more than one rat running to Bastian with the news.  Lorraine is an obvious choice because of her envy, but I think that there are least two other possible candidates as well.  I could see Vera doing it anonymously as a way to protect her brother, but I also suspect it might be one of the gangsters because I have a sneaky suspicion that Bastian might be involved in some shady dealings with gangsters.

[mommybooknerd]

that is a good idea...cant wait to see how it all turns out!

[bookescapest]

Was I surprised by who was sending Clara the secret notes? Not really. I didn't feel like anyone else in the plot was aware of what she might have been doing. Her aunt had already threatened her with reform school and didn't bring it up, what would be the point of thereatening her and then continuing to shove it in her face? Plus the other girls didn't  seem to pick up on anything that was really off with Clara, so I figured it must be her former love.

Now Vera, it seems, does have a reason to be protective of her brother. Back in the 20's it would have been a huge scandal and risk for Gloria and Jerome to be together. Her brother would be endangering himself not just to Gloria's fiance's wrath but to anyone who took issue with their race difference. I'm a younger sister, and I can imagine trying to protect my brother from any trouble he might be stirring up. Its our jobs as sisters to protect our brothers sometimes.

[mommybooknerd]

....mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill.

I was not expecting the mystery person to be an old lover.  it was quite a surprise and made it more clear how Marcus felt about Clara, nice spin!

[All-Things-Ste…]

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flouncyninja wrote:

The two guys tied together in my head because, when the commotion started, Bastian was at the bar near Clara.  Lorraine and Marcus are watching Clara with this strange man, when someone starts yelling at the bar.  I guess just the proximity and the two events happening within minutes of each other tied the two "important" young men of business together in my head.

I'm really curious to how Maude went from happy flapper to shell-of-a-girl.  Is Carlito running a prostitution ring through the speakeasy that she got caught up in?  Is that Lorraine's fate if she doesn't get far, far away from him?  I kind of like Lorraine, despite all her very teenager qualities of jealousy and selfishness.  I don't want her to become a mobster puppet.

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Yes, I could see how the guys could be linked somehow through business. I'm still wondering who knows who within the mob and the society of rich men.  There has got to be some shady deals going on there somewhere.

The descent of Maude is curious isn't it?  I know they mentioned working girls at one point, so you have clearly hit the nail on the head there.  Maude has most certainly gotten herself involved in a very bad situation indeed.

Lorraine is immature, young, and unfortunately neglected by her parents.  She needs two things guidance and rehab.  I would feel so sad for Lorraine if her fate turned out like Maude's.