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nicole21WA
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Wow, I didn't much care for Lorraine earlier, and now I really don't like her!  I wouldn't be surprised if she pulls some stunt that splits up Gloria and Bastian (though I don't think she's the one who told him to come to the speakeasy).

 

The identity of The Cad wasn't any big deal nor surprising.  I'm more interested in finding out why Clara elects to call him "The Cad" rather than by name.  If she was talking to him about others, I could see why she wouldn't name him; but she calls him that in her own thoughts.

 

I suspect that Vera has done some research on Gloria.  She brought up the expensiveness of the dress a few too many times for her to have not figured out something of Gloria's true identity.  Of all the characters we've met, she's the one I'd peg for telling Bastian to check out the speakeasy that night.

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hashores
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I love the development of Marcus and Clara so much more than that of, Gloria, whom I see as the main character. I just find these two so much more interesting and the growth of their characters is a cool thing to watch. I do think Marcus has truly fallen for her, but then, that's the romantic in me :smileywink:

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

So glad you enjoyed the book! Thanks for not revealing any spoilers... please come back and tell us more about your impressions as we proceed with the book. 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 

I've always made assumptions about the word 'cad' thinking it meant something along the lines of the word 'player.' This definition from 'Oxford English' seems apt: "a man who behaves dishonorably, esp. toward a woman." It also noted that the word was both, "humorous" and "dated," which I thought was funny!

melissas wrote:


First of all, what exactly does cad mean? Second of all, yes. I was not thinking that this mystery man would be someone of high repute. I was thinking of some sort of ne'er-do-well that girls in high-society wouldn't look at twice.

 

 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Great observations! What is it about the stance of 'holier than thou' that makes people suspect someone's hiding something?


broy said:

     I do not think it was Lorraine or Clara who tipped Bastian off. I think Bastian has frequented a speakeasy or two or three...I am not sure who tipped him off yet, but I think he is more familiar with this way of life than he lets on.

 


Atreyu59 wrote:


You are so clever to figure out character styles and development in this part of the novel.  I like what you said about Bastion; I too felt that way 'bout Bastian's secretive life that he claims to lead because he is so 'holier than thou' but is he really so clean?  

 


 

 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: Marcus

I also want to know more about Marcus and am interested in seeing how he responds as we learn more about what happened to Clara in New York.


nook_newbieLS wrote:

 

I would like to see more development of Marcus's character. Since it seems that Lorriane and Marcus are switching rolls (devotion vs. self-absorbtion) I would like to know more about his internal transformation.

 

What a great book!


 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: the Tipster

I think in real life it would be just what you say... some random associate who knows them both might say something... but it seems to me in book world someone would have to have a motive. Either way---even if it's a complete stranger---it insinuates that Bastian has connections to the illegal underworld.


camibones wrote:

I find it very interesting that so many people assume that Bastian's tipster has to be someone we know. The Green Mill is supposedly the hottest speakeasy in the city, so why would we think that the only "good girls" going there would be Gloria et al? Why should we assume that none of Bastian's friends or associates (especially those associates who might like to knock him down a few pegs by letting him know what his supposedly perfect fiance is getting up to) would say anything? Bastian is a big supporter of Prohibition and of the government, so why would it be hard to believe that an undercover cop or one on surveillance wouldn't have tipped him off? I just think there are many more possibilities than just the characters we've gotten to know.


 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 

I'm really rooting for Lorraine to find a new life. Get to college, girl!

girlie0620 wrote:

mystrelle wrote-

I think Lorraine's vindictiveness is going to have consequences for both her and Gloria.  At the rate she's going, she is well on her way to destroying herself.  However, she has the potential to destroy Gloria also, although perhaps not in the way we might all be expecting.

 

I see this happening. Lorraine is very wrapped up in what she "wants" (expects maybe)..that she doesn't realize that by hurting the people that she is- it is going to impact everything around her. She keeps up this idea in her head that everyone will "run" back to her for friendship, comfort, etc. I think all she is going to feel in the end is emptiness and loss.

 

I think Vera is attempting to protect Jerome in the only way she knows how- she looks at Gloria and see future hurt for her brother- why wouldn't she try to stop that.?  

 

I can't wait to see how Marcus's character grows. I think just like Clara- the charade is actually becoming part of their transformation. By choosing to "trick" others or "play a part" they are letting out little truths about themselves.

 

Enjoying the book so much.


 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: Vera

There is more Vera in upcoming sections... and I definitely think she'll be appearing more in other books. Perhaps this is a question we should ask Jillian!

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Sarah-W
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Re: Gloria

 

This is a very interesting point... I guess things just became a whole lot more 'real' for Gloria in this section! Do you wonder if she feels the same way about her marriage... that it's not really 'real?'

literature wrote:

 

Gloria said that if she didn't tell anyone about singing at Green Mill, it wouldn't be real and she  wouldn't have to justify it to herself from the onset; she would just do it without thinking about  the consequences.  That was her rationalization.

 


 

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: Bastien

Just wait to see who Bastien ends up involved with... There are definitely more surprises coming as far as he's concerned....:smileywink:

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Sarah-W
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

 

I agree, Clara is my favorite character. I'm very interested in seeing what happens to her next. Welcome to the board!

hashores wrote:

I love the development of Marcus and Clara so much more than that of, Gloria, whom I see as the main character. I just find these two so much more interesting and the growth of their characters is a cool thing to watch. I do think Marcus has truly fallen for her, but then, that's the romantic in me :smileywink:


 

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LerBear
Posts: 8
Registered: ‎08-02-2010

Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

The second half of Part I contains a lot of action and surprises:

 

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? Meanwhile, the mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill.

 

I believe that Marcus and Clara’s relationship is truly blossoming.  I think that he is starting to have genuine feelings for her.  Although their relationship started as a plan for Marcus to run Clara off I think he really is starting to like her and her him.

 

 

Gloria is sneaking around to rehearse with Jerome for her debut at the Green Mill. She definitely has feelings for Jerome, but knows her family would never approve. She must also contend with Jerome's jealous sister Vera who wants Gloria as far away from her brother as possible.

 

Gloria has got it bad for Jerome, and she can’t tell him how she feels for many reasons.  Gloria is in a bad situation because she really has feelings for Jerome rather than Bastian, but not only would her family and others not approve, but she is under pressure to go through with her wedding to Bastian to save face for her family.  Gloria’s father’s selfishness has now put Gloria in the position of having to try and cover up his mess.  Her mother is pressuring her to go through with the business arrangement that has been made in order for the Carmody name to remain prominent and not get dragged through the mud.  She has to weigh family love and loyalty against her true feelings and her heart’s desire.  It’s a terrible situation to be in, and I honestly do feel sorry for her.  Jerome’s sister is just adding to Gloria’s stress and complicates her pending relationship with Jerome even further.  I think it’s just another obstacle being thrown at her that she will have to overcome.

 

 

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiancé Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

 

 I knew something was going to happen with Lorraine, as far as betraying Gloria goes.  I am very happy that she did not let the situation with Bastian go any farther than it did.  In my opinion that redeemed her somewhat.  I was glad to see that she was able to demonstrate some self control, rather than giving in to her urges, especially seeing as she was drunk which would have impaired her already questionable judgment even further.  I think this made me have a lot more respect for Lorraine than I did, and has made me dislike her a lot less.  As far as Carlito Macharelli goes, I am afraid that Lorraine will end up getting herself in too deep with him, which she may seriously regret down the road. 

 

 

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancée is singing at the Green Mill?

 

Hello Drama!  I loved the ending of Part 1.  Lorraine, of course, was at the center of it all, Gloria now believes she has been betrayed by Lorraine and never wants to see or talk to her ever again!  Marcus is also upset with Lorraine and believes her to be a traitor which has got to be killing Lorraine.  She has now lost her best friend, and the guy she has been crushing after.  I honestly feel sorry for her (right now) as I don’t really believe it was her who tipped Bastian off.  This is going to really destroy her, I believe, especially if she can’t manage to get through to Gloria.  As for whom it was that tipped off Bastian that Gloria was singing at the Green Mill, I can’t even begin to guess who it may have been.  I pondered Lorraine – the obvious choice because of her jealousy of Gloria, but I really don’t think it was her.  I also pondered Clara, but seeing as she doesn’t want people knowing her true past I don’t know why she would have ratted on Gloria.  I can’t see Marcus having a motive to tell either, and so I am really having a hard time figuring out who it was that tipped Bastian off, unless it was a spy or acquaintance of Bastian’s that happened upon the situation and ran to Bastion to warn him.

 

I was a little surprised by the identity of Clara’s cad, but it actually came as a bit of a disappointment.  I was a little let down that it wasn’t more scandalous or dangerous.  I was thinking the mysterious note writer was going to end up being someone dangerous that she may or may not have known personally from her previous life, rather than “the cad” who she had a relationship with while living in New York.  I was thinking a blackmail situation was in order! 

 

I can kind of see Vera’s protectiveness of Jerome, just because as a sister, that’s what we do!  At the same time, I don’t really think it is justified but rather a case of bossiness, control issues and that catty female attitude.  Her character is another that I am having a hard time liking.    

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DSaff
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I wholeheardedly agree with you, Sarah! Lorraine may not be the most popular character because of her actions, but I think there is so much more to this acting out! I would like her to go to college and find herself, someone who can stand on her own. I plan to read the last section tomorrow and hope to find some changes in her character. :smileyhappy:


Sarah-W wrote:

 

I'm really rooting for Lorraine to find a new life. Get to college, girl!

DonnaS =) " Reading is a means of thinking with another person's mind; it forces you to stretch your own." Charles Scribner
"A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." Chinese Proverb
My blog: http://bookworm56.blogspot.com
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Becktrek
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I was doing so well...  but I couldn't help myself...  When I got to page 355 i just had to keep going.....  So now I will not post anything for the next section cuz I don't want to present any spoilers.

 

Excellent Book!

 

Becky in IN

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14abetancourt
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

WOW!!! The books so far has been hard to put down!

 

I think tht Marcus' feeling are completely real. I could be wrong but that's the feeling I get. He almost seems to have chnaged the beginning of the novel. We haven't learned much about him, but he definitely seems changed. As for Clara's sender, I could see how someone of his standing would be into her NY Clara persona.

 

In the setting of the novel, Vera's feelings toward Gloria and Jeromes' relationship is completely understandable. She see's that their relationship can only mean trouble in their society.

 

I think Lorraine is on a fast train to nowhere when it comes to "getting even" with Gloria. Her choice to be something that she isn't is only going to cause her and everyone around her trouble. I think that she knows what's right but she ignores that part of her to get what she wants. Well, what she thinks she wants. It appears that she tries to please everyone but never listens to herself.

 

As I mentioned, I think Vera's feeling are understandable, as is Clara's cad. I think it was Lorraine who told Bastian, but I'm not quite sure yet.

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sarah_in_ca
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I have a feeling Marcus will find out that there's much more to Clara than he's been told, that she's a genuine, honest person deep inside, far different from the usual girls who hang on him because of his good looks.  Genuine feelings for Gloria sneek up on Marcus.

 

Sometimes when friends are too close for a long time, jealousy clouds the thinking of one of them, and it eats away at the friendship.  Lorraine is caught here between her friendship with Gloria and her desperate jealousy of Gloria.  I think the desperation will be her undoing, sadly.  Attacking the friendship, Lorraine hopes to make it right again.

 

I was a bit surprised to learn the identity of Clara's cad. He has a big ego problem, thinking he needed to leave NYC to find her--to make himself feel strong again.  I see the love Vera has for Jerome in the way she protects him.  He seems more laid back, while sister knows what's really happening.

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Atreyu59
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Hey Nicole21WA -    -    -  I like your analysis of the characters & how you feel about Vera.  During the entire book she is such a 'shadowy' character in that the author doesn't give her nearly the time that I would have like to seen.  I wanted to get to know Vera much better, yet- she is not the 'flapper character' we are to be drawn towards I guess?

I think your on to something here............  

smileywink:     


 

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Atreyu59
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

Camibones - 

 

 

 

       I like how you have gone thru several scenario's in figuring out (assumptions) what other plausible ways that Bastion could have learned about Green Mill.  I have not heard anyone else come up with some of these ideas - an enemy of Bastion for example.  Good thinking.  I don't believe I gave it that much thought.  I was busy trying to figure out who this 'cad' was as well.

 


 

 

you stated      

       I find it very interesting that so many people assume that Bastian's tipster has to be someone we know. The Green Mill is supposedly the hottest speakeasy in the city, so why would we think that the only "good girls" going there would be Gloria et al? Why should we assume that none of Bastian's friends or associates (especially those associates who might like to knock him down a few pegs by letting him know what his supposedly perfect fiance is getting up to) would say anything?

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scientistsoltero
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Re: Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

I loved the relationship within Clara and Marcus. Clara has been my favorite character and aI truly dislike Lorraine!!!!