Vixen Discussion: The Rest of Part I p.145 - 271

[KateBrianIsAwe…]

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I?

It was shocking. 

Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Yes and no. 

Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? I guess so, but she should back off a little. Jerome could get in a lot of trouble for being seen with Gloria just because he is black and she is white. I say that she should just let him do what he wants; its his life. I could understand why Vera is so protective of him though. I'd hate for something awful to happen to my family members. 

Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

Well I was surprised at how quickly Gloria was to assume it was Lorraine who told on her. I think maybe it was Vera. 

As for Clara and Marcus, I can't wait to see more of them together. I think he truly does care a lot Clara. 

As for Lorraine, I feel pretty bad for her. One minute she has her friend back and the next she gets slapped in the face. 

[Sarah-W]

Hello amusingmother, and welcome to the board! I'm interested by what you said about Lorraine... she is fighting to define herself.

A couple of people have commented about Gloria so quickly jumping to the conclusion that Lorraine was the one who told Bastien about her gig at the Green Mill.

We know that Lorraine is envious of Gloria, but do you think that Gloria might be envious of Lorraine, too? After all, Lorraine is the one who has both a wild and crazy reputation and an opportunity to go to college... while Gloria is unhappily engaged to a man she's not sure she wants to marry...

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amusingmother wrote:

Marcus has already been set up for the reader as a player.  I don't see much really happening in the long run between the two of them.  Clara isn't being honest about herself.

 Lorraine's character is always fighting against something.  She still doesn't stand for anything.  She seems to know what she wants less and less and struggles with her own self image.  Who is Lorraine? Her identification seems to always be based upon another character.  She is Gloria's gutsy friend who dared to get a bob.  She is Marcus' friend which makes her valuable to many of the girls.  Lorraine as herself is not yet tangible.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

The revelation of Clara's cad didn't move me one way or the other.  He's clearly a dangerous character to be stalking her which makes me worry about her.   She's the one character that seems most developed.

Vera is very justified in her concern with Jerome's involvement with Gloria.  Jerome, gifted hands aside, is still a poor, black man in an oppressive environment.  His choices are limited.  Gloria is high society.  She can drop Jerome, broken hearted at any time. 

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[erica11]

This book is getting crazy!  Drama!!

I actually feel bad for Lorraine.  In trying to stick it to Gloria, she is destroying her own life.  I think she has painted herself in a corner that will be hard to get out of.  Finding out the identity of Clara's "cad" did not shock me in the least.  I figured he was going to be someone important.  Vera is very justified in wanting to protect her brother.  Back in those days, a black man socializing with a white woman would mean big touble for the man.  Vera is looking out for Jerome.  I can not say who the "tipper" is because I have read the rest of the book.  Can't wait to discuss more of the book!

[camibones]

I find it very interesting that so many people assume that Bastian's tipster has to be someone we know. The Green Mill is supposedly the hottest speakeasy in the city, so why would we think that the only "good girls" going there would be Gloria et al? Why should we assume that none of Bastian's friends or associates (especially those associates who might like to knock him down a few pegs by letting him know what his supposedly perfect fiance is getting up to) would say anything? Bastian is a big supporter of Prohibition and of the government, so why would it be hard to believe that an undercover cop or one on surveillance wouldn't have tipped him off? I just think there are many more possibilities than just the characters we've gotten to know.

[avalonpriestess]

Sarah-W wrote:

We know that Lorraine is envious of Gloria, but do you think that Gloria might be envious of Lorraine, too? After all, Lorraine is the one who has both a wild and crazy reputation and an opportunity to go to college... while Gloria is unhappily engaged to a man she's not sure she wants to marry...

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Interesting point.  I don't think Gloria is envious of Lorraine.  I think Gloria is somewhat

oblivious to Lorraine.  She can't sense Lorraine's anger or jealousy.  I think if Gloria was envious

she would have shared her plans about singing at the Green Mill.  Gloria is attempting to break

out and define herself.  She wants to do it on her own, without Marcus or Lorraine.  

Donna

[mommybooknerd]

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CubicleBlindness wrote:

I kinda thought that Bastian deserves to be with Lorraine.

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Now that would be a twist and a half, do you tihink that may happen in the future at some point in this book or the follow up book?

[mommybooknerd]

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avalonpriestess wrote:

Sarah-W wrote:

We know that Lorraine is envious of Gloria, but do you think that Gloria might be envious of Lorraine, too? After all, Lorraine is the one who has both a wild and crazy reputation and an opportunity to go to college... while Gloria is unhappily engaged to a man she's not sure she wants to marry...

 ------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting point.  I don't think Gloria is envious of Lorraine.  I think Gloria is somewhat

oblivious to Lorraine.  She can't sense Lorraine's anger or jealousy.  I think if Gloria was envious

she would have shared her plans about singing at the Green Mill.  Gloria is attempting to break

out and define herself.  She wants to do it on her own, without Marcus or Lorraine.  

Donna

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I think that there is some level of jealousy in all relationships.  I think that is kinda the state of being.  Somebody always has something worth being jealous of, but it is what you do with that jealously that matters.  Both Gloria and Lorraine deal with it very differently.

[nook_newbieLS]

I am LOVING this book. For me, watching Lorraine's self-destruction is absolutely riveting. Uncomfortable and cringe-worthy, but riveting. My heart is also breaking for Gloria and Jerome. You know the relationship is doomed, even if they make it out of the story as a couple. There is just no place for them in mid-1920's America.

I would like to see more development of Marcus's character. Since it seems that Lorriane and Marcus are switching rolls (devotion vs. self-absorbtion) I would like to know more about his internal transformation.

What a great book!

[girlie0620]

mystrelle wrote-

I think Lorraine's vindictiveness is going to have consequences for both her and Gloria.  At the rate she's going, she is well on her way to destroying herself.  However, she has the potential to destroy Gloria also, although perhaps not in the way we might all be expecting.

I see this happening. Lorraine is very wrapped up in what she "wants" (expects maybe)..that she doesn't realize that by hurting the people that she is- it is going to impact everything around her. She keeps up this idea in her head that everyone will "run" back to her for friendship, comfort, etc. I think all she is going to feel in the end is emptiness and loss.

I think Vera is attempting to protect Jerome in the only way she knows how- she looks at Gloria and see future hurt for her brother- why wouldn't she try to stop that.?  

I can't wait to see how Marcus's character grows. I think just like Clara- the charade is actually becoming part of their transformation. By choosing to "trick" others or "play a part" they are letting out little truths about themselves.

Enjoying the book so much.

[broy]

I think that Marcus was surprised at his real feelings for Clara. She has kept herself guarded in regards to Marcus because she knows he, Gloria, and Lorraine are up to something.

I was not surprised to find out who Clara's cad was. I kind of expected it as she kept hinting to this cad in NYC...I agree she was "the cat's meow" of NYC. There was obviously unfinished business there so I knew he would be showing up at some point.

Lorriane is digging herself deeper and deeper. Getting involved with Carlito and putting herself in compromising positions with Bastian. At the rate she is going she will NEVER repair her relationship with Gloria.

I think Vera has every right to protect her brother. She knows that there is no future for Jerome and Gloria. I also think she suspects that Gloria may not be who she says she is...

I do not think it was Lorraine or Clara who tipped Bastian off. I think Bastian has frequented a speakeasy or two or three...I am not sure who tipped him off yet, but I think he is more familiar with this way of life than he lets on.

[melissas]

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke?

I honestly have been unable to figure this out, but he seems genuine to me..

Will Lorraine get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

I don't think Lorraine will get even with Gloria. For one, I don't think she could go through with something like that because she knows it would absolutely kill her relationship with Gloria. Also, if she were to go through with it, I'm not sure Gloria would even care. She clearly has very strong feelings for Jerome, and we've never even seen an inkling of something similar towards Bastian. I definitely think Lorraine is on the verge of becoming a ruined woman if this type of behavior continues...especially with Carlito involved.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad?

First of all, what exactly does cad mean? Second of all, yes. I was not thinking that this mystery man would be someone of high repute. I was thinking of some sort of ne'er-do-well that girls in high-society wouldn't look at twice.

Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified?

I have absolutely no idea why she is protective and jealous.

Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

I almost think that Bastian has a secret sort of life that would lead him to this conclusion on his own.

[Atreyu59]

I agree 100% with you on the 'more Vera' issue.  

I can't see how you ignore her in the next novel -now that I read the entire book - she has to take come type of FRONT row seat in INGENUE.  I am starting to like (well maybe not alot) Vera.  Only because I can share her love for her brother but definitely not her motives all around.

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emperatrix said:

                                   I would have liked to have seen more of Vera

[Atreyu59]

nook_newbieLS - - you are so true in your conclusion about the 1920's and that relationship b/t Jerome & Gloria; at least there in their location in high-society Chicago.  Perhaps somewhere else wouldn't be as bad, but never free to do as they please nor at being open around folks of the times. .... .  .  . . . 

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you said:

                    You know the relationship is doomed, even if they make it out of the story as a couple. There is just no place for them in mid-1920's America.

[Atreyu59]

broy said:

     I do not think it was Lorraine or Clara who tipped Bastian off. I think Bastian has frequented a speakeasy or two or three...I am not sure who tipped him off yet, but I think he is more familiar with this way of life than he lets on.

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You are so clever to figure out character styles and development in this part of the novel.  I like what you said about Bastion; I too felt that way 'bout Bastian's secretive life that he claims to lead because he is so 'holier than thou' but is he really so clean?  

[jabrkeKB]

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Sarah-W wrote:

Hello All, 

Thanks for the great discussion!

The second half of Part I contains a lot of action and surprises:

Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? Meanwhile, the mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill. I'm starting to believe that Marcus does have feelings for Clara.

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process? Wow, Lorraine is a mess and she is not making good decisions. I think she will end up ruining herself.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill? I wasn't surprised by the identity of the cad, given Clara's flapper past. I don't think Jerome needs his sister's help. I feel she may be jealous by the attention he receives. I think Vera was the tipster. She doesn't like Gloria and wants her away from her brother.

Author Jill Larkin joins us this week, so please welcome her to the board! 

 Welcome Jill!! I am so enjoying this book!! Thank you for sharing it with us. I will be looking forward to the next book in the series.

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[haysel13]

Yes, the second half of VIXEN’s Part I contains plenty of action and surprises.

As luck would have it I do believe our playboy, Marcus Eastman, is indeed genuinely falling for Clara. But is it Clara or Country Clara? Does it matter? Will the gorgeous Marcus get a dose of his own medicine and have his heart broken by the ex-flapper Country Clara and her secrets? Speaking of Clara’s closet of skeletons, I wonder who’s sending her the creepy notes. My majority guess was the notes’ sender was the guy back in NYC who shattered her. But then again I thought maybe it could have been a jealous psycho debutante out for revenge on the up and coming Country Clara? Though as the book continued Clara finally had a rather interesting encountered with a mister Harris Brown -- the creepy note sender in the flesh.

So Clara isn’t the only VIXEN girl living a double-life. Gloria seems to be coming into her own. I mean she’s falling for Jerome, a black man – talk about taboo in the Roaring 20s, converting into a full-fledged flapper, sneaking out of the house, and starting a “career” as a speakeasy singer. Gloria definitely gives a 360 degree transformation a whole new definition. But let’s get back to Jerome, the Mr. Hot & Cold, I think he can handle himself so why is Vera – his sister – so protective of him? Is it justifiable? Well I think Vera is the way she is plain and simple: Gloria is a white girl. And for a black man in their time to be consorting with a white woman could get Jerome killed and I take it that he is probably the only family Vera has left. On that note I think it is justifiable for Vera to be protective of her brother. Nonetheless, how much longer do you think Vera can protect Jerome from the alluring hold that is Gloria? Watch out the elite and the oblique of Chicago, here comes Gloria Carm – oops – Gloria Carson!

Poor girl Lorraine does it again ... and again ... and yes you’ve guessed it, again. Illegal drinks with Carlito Macharelli and late night visits with Sebastian Grey that just may have included a leak about Gloria’s stage time at the Green Mill.

Quotes:

Clara and Marcus:

“’You left me with quite the first impression,’ Clara said, trying not to reveal too much. ‘I’m still not over it.’

‘You mean you found me irresistibly attractive?’

‘More like irredeemably aggressive.’

‘I thought I redeemed myself after our date!’ Marcus protested, sliding down to the floor and leaning against the bed.” – Page 209

Always,

Haysel

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[MissysReadsAnd…]

The second half of Part I contains a lot of action and surprises: Marcus takes Clara for a night on the town, but Clara can't tell if he likes her or her Country Clara persona. Are his feelings genuine or part of an elaborate joke? Meanwhile, the mysterious notes continue until the sender reveals himself during Gloria's debut singing at the Green Mill.

I think that Marcus may tell his friend Gloria that he is just acting to make Clara fall in love with him, but he actually does have feelings for her - he may just not realize how deep those emotions are right now and he may be fooling himself in the process.

Lorraine's envy is eating her alive. Her provocative behavior has gained the attention Carlito Macharelli, the son of the gangster who owns the Green Mill. She's also managed to get herself into a compromising position with Gloria's fiance Bastian. Will she get even with Gloria? Or just ruin herself in the process?

I think Lorraine, if she continues to go down this same road, is not only going to ruion Gloria but herself as well. She's really a hot mess, and I'm not sure how things will result for her - but it's not looking positive.

What did you think of the revelations that happen at the end of Part I? Are you surprised by the identity of Clara's cad? Do you think Vera's protectiveness of her brother is justified? Who do you think tipped off Bastian that his fiancee is singing at the Green Mill?

I have to admit that I'm not surprised at all by the identity of Clara's cad, given her past. I think jealousy fuels Vera's protectiveness more than anything, so I don't think it's justified for that reason. If she had her brother's interests in mind, I may think differently - but that doesn't seem to be the case. I am in a tug-of-war between Lorraine and Vera when it comes to tattling Gloria out to Bastian. Both girls have to motive, so it's difficult to decide right now.

This book just gets better and better!!

[literature]

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avalonpriestess wrote:

Sarah-W wrote:

We know that Lorraine is envious of Gloria, but do you think that Gloria might be envious of Lorraine, too? After all, Lorraine is the one who has both a wild and crazy reputation and an opportunity to go to college... while Gloria is unhappily engaged to a man she's not sure she wants to marry...

 ------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting point.  I don't think Gloria is envious of Lorraine.  I think Gloria is somewhat

oblivious to Lorraine.  She can't sense Lorraine's anger or jealousy.  I think if Gloria was envious

she would have shared her plans about singing at the Green Mill.  Gloria is attempting to break

out and define herself.  She wants to do it on her own, without Marcus or Lorraine.  

Donna

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Gloria said that if she didn't tell anyone about singing at Green Mill, it wouldn't be real and she  wouldn't have to justify it to herself from the onset; she would just do it without thinking about  the consequences.  That was her rationalization.  As far as Gloria, Lorraine or Marcus sensing each other's feelings, needs or wants, they were just living their lives parallel to each other.  It's not that they didn't care about each other, they were raised by absentee parents, taken care of by servants and just went on with life.  The emotional, nurturing connection just wasn't present.

[GReba]

Okay, can I just say this book was pure genius?  Really....I just finished it about 20 minutes ago and wow, just wow.  Seeing as I'm not one to spoil the surprises, I'll stick to the questions listed here.  ^_^  Let's see...was I surprised as to the Cad's identity? Yup...didn't see that one coming, nor their exact intentions.  I think Vera's a bit overprotective but really, that's coming from today's standards.  If we take ourselves back to that time period, it'd probably seem more appropriate.  There was a lot more distrust between races at that time.  As for the tip off....my guess at that point was Lorraine or perhaps Bastian himself, after all he doesn't seem the most trustworthy suitor. 

[Atreyu59]

TO GReba:

 that was great.  I like how you tipped toed around giving out the 'line and story'.

It was a great book and reading it to the end was easier than I expected as well.

Can't wait to discuss the last part to the end of the book.

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you said::::::::            Seeing as I'm not one to spoil the surprises, I'll stick to the questions listed here.  ^_^  Let's see...