Question of talent

[kthurman59]

In your book, as well as a few interviews, you point out that talent can not be taught, but you point out that writing can be taught. I am a fledgling writer that does not believe I have a lick of talent. I mean, I suppose I must have some, but otherwise I think I stink so bad I make Grisham look like Faulkner. How does one know if they have talent? Thank you.

K

[FrancineProse]

That'sa good question. I think what's important is not to worry about it, but just keep writing--so long as it gives you pleasure.

[lcihlar]

I read this blog which comments on the lack of reading among college students who write. The original impetus for the article came from an interview of Stephen Dixon who says that indeed students don't read as much as they used to, but they are better writers. (the blog has a link to the Dixon interview)

http://noggs.typepad.com/the_reading_experience/2007/02/the_recent_very.html

I was talking to a high school English teacher last week and she says that her students no longer get allusions to common works of literature that you would hope they would have at least some passing knowledge of like the Bible or some mythology or Twain or Harper Lee. What I can't figure out is why. Is it the fault of the media? the internet? too many other things to do? What has made self-education and reading for pleasure such a loathsome activities?

[KristyR]

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lcihlar wrote:
I read this blog which comments on the lack of reading among college students who write. The original impetus for the article came from an interview of Stephen Dixon who says that indeed students don't read as much as they used to, but they are better writers. (the blog has a link to the Dixon interview)

http://noggs.typepad.com/the_reading_experience/2007/02/the_recent_very.html

I was talking to a high school English teacher last week and she says that her students no longer get allusions to common works of literature that you would hope they would have at least some passing knowledge of like the Bible or some mythology or Twain or Harper Lee. What I can't figure out is why. Is it the fault of the media? the internet? too many other things to do? What has made self-education and reading for pleasure such a loathsome activities?

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This is just an observation from someone with young children, 1st and 4th grades. Every month when the teachers send home flyers for the monthly book sale, my kids say they're almost the only kids who get any books and they get the most books by far. These books are not expensive, they always offer several, award winning books for $.95 - $3.99. It surprises me that other parents would not take advantaqe of such offers. All I can surmise is that many parents don't encourage their young children to read, or read with them, or even read themselves. My son's teacher gave each of her students a different book for Christmas, according to their interests and abilities. Most of the books were ones my son had read in 2nd grade. My son happily received Cornelia Funke's Dragon Rider, the other kids couldn't believe that he would actually try to read something so thick! It makes me sad that kids so young are already set against reading. I think my son's teacher is great, but it must be hard to encourage a love of reading in your students when there is almost no base to build upon.

[FrancineProse]

Play stations and video games are obviously a big competitor. I often wonder if any scientist has done a study minitoring the brain waves and blood pressure of people who've spent the reading--or playing video games.

[Everyman]

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FrancineProse wrote:
Play stations and video games are obviously a big competitor. I often wonder if any scientist has done a study minitoring the brain waves and blood pressure of people who've spent the reading--or playing video games.

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There are actually a lot of such studies going now that FMRI (Functional MRI) technology is feasible for brain studies. Eric Jensen is one author and speaker who keeps up to date on these developments, and is very concerned with brain-friendly teaching techniques.
http://www.jlcbrain.com/

[jweinstein]

Everyman,
Do tell us about the findings of Eric Jensen. (I think analytical skills are waning but that imagination has been enhanced.)

And... for all of those non-reading youth there is Harry Potter. I am hopeful that there is a trickle down effect. You like Harry, you discover that you love books and so forth.

-Jerry the Mod(erator)
The Glass Is Half Full.

[Everyman]

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jweinstein wrote:
Everyman,
Do tell us about the findings of Eric Jensen.

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I'm not the expert here. My wife went to several of his conferences, and I tagged along but only heard snippets and bits and pieces while I waited around for her to come out of sessions. She told me a lot about his research, but frankly it's all drifted out of my mind. She got his newsletters until she retired two years ago, so I know he's still at it, but I don't know the content well enough to write about it.

[luvz2read]

Thanks for the link to a portion of the Dixon interview and the comments.

My impression from the interview excerpt is that there are some people in writing classes who are intimidated by their knowledge of classic works into believing either that they have nothing new to say, or that whatever they do write should clearly link to examples from one or more of the classics they have already been taught. On the otherhad, it seems like Dixon is saying that some writing students write with more abandon, uninhibited by what has gone before. In that way, their writing may seem fresher, possibly better than that of the other group.

I do hope others on this board have saved this link, read it, and pondered its relevence to this discussion, as well as to each one's ongoing internal discussion on such matters. That is the reason I read this book and joined this discussion. I especially liked the comments that follow the interview excerpt.

Any like-minded out there? Would love to hear from you.

[lcihlar]

You should read the whole Dixon interview if you have a chance. He said that many of his students haven't read the classics or very much literature at all really. But they are still writing well even though they sometimes cover old ground because they don't know it is old ground.

From someone who has read a lot from the time she was little, I am rather appalled that writers aren't reading. It seems so elementary; if you want to write and you want to be good at it, read everything, learn from the masters. I thought it was an interesting article.

[ziki]

Thanks for the link
:-)
"You've got an insult, a self-doubt, a family tragedy, a baseless fear, or a very real one? You wonder if, despite everything you've done, you may be an idiot? Treasure that, nurture it, and turn it into a story no one else could have written."

[luvz2read]

Yes, glad to delve into the whole interview when I get a chance. Here is the link:

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=13229

I am dubious about the future of writing if writers are not reading, especially selections from the classics. From what Francine has said, it seems essential to look at this body of work.

And I agree with the statement about covering old ground without realizing it. I would hope that exposure to excellent examples of writing from the past would encourage excellence and innovation in new writing. Young writers have new perspectives and experiences. They need not feel that everything has already been done. If they have standards of excellence as a foundation, they can innovate with power.

[Laurel]

Here's something relevant that I posted in the English Classics forum:
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I just found this letter that Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote to someone who asked his advice about books for a young daughter to read:
.................................
To N. L. Osmidov

STARAYA-ROUSSA, August 18, 1880.

MUCH-ESTEEMED NIKOLAY LUKITCH!

. . . . You write that hitherto you have given your daughter nothing that is purely literary to read, lest her fancy should become over-developed. This does not appear to me entirely a right point of view; for fancy is an inborn capacity of human beings; in a child, it outweighs all others, and should most undoubtedly be nourished. For if we give a child's imagination no nourishment, it may easily die out, or, on the other hand, may over-develop itself from its own sheer force, which is no less undesirable. For such an abnormal over-development prematurely exhausts the child's mental powers. And impressions of the beautiful, moreover, are precisely in childhood of the greatest importance.

When I was ten years old, I saw at Moscow a performance of "Die Räuber," [Schiller's "The Robbers] with Motchalov in one of the chief parts, and I can only say that the deep impression which that performance made upon me has worked most fruitfully ever since upon my whole mental development.

At twelve, I read right through Walter Scott during the summer holidays; certainly such reading did extraordinarily stimulate my imagination and sensibility, but it led them into good, not evil, paths; I got from it many fine and noble impressions, which gave my soul much power of resistance against others which were seductive, violent, and corrupting.

So I advise you to give your daughter now the works of Walter Scott, and all the more, because he is for the moment neglected by us Russians, and your daughter, when she is older, will have neither opportunity nor desire to make acquaintance with that great writer; therefore hasten now, while she is still in her parents' house, to introduce him to her. Besides, Walter Scott has a high educational value.

She should also read all Dickens's works without exception. Make her acquainted, too, with the literature of past centuries ( "Don Quixote," "Gil Blas," etc). It would be best for her to begin with poetry. She should read all Pushkin, verse as well as prose. Gogol likewise. If you like, Turgenev and Gontscharov as well; as to my own works, I don't think that all of them are suitable for your daughter.

It would be well for her to read Schlosser's "Weltgeschichte," and Solovyov's Russian history; nor should she omit Karamsin. Don't give her Kostomarov as yet. The "Conquest of Peru and Mexico" by Prescott is most necessary. In general, historical works have immense educational value.

She should read Leo Tolstoy all through; also Shakespeare, Schiller, and Goethe; these writers are to be had in good Russian translations. That will be enough for the present. With time, in a few years, you will see yourself that there is much besides. Journalistic reading should, in the beginning at any rate, be kept from her. I don't know if my advice will commend itself to you. I write after much reflection, and out of my own personal experience. I shall be very glad if it is really of use to you.

Source: Letters of Fyodor Michailovitch Dostoevsky to His Family and Friends, Ethel Colburn Mayne; Horizon Press, 1961, pp. 253-255.
...................................................

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luvz2read wrote:
Yes, glad to delve into the whole interview when I get a chance. Here is the link:

http://www.citypaper.com/news/story.asp?id=13229

I am dubious about the future of writing if writers are not reading, especially selections from the classics. From what Francine has said, it seems essential to look at this body of work.

And I agree with the statement about covering old ground without realizing it. I would hope that exposure to excellent examples of writing from the past would encourage excellence and innovation in new writing. Young writers have new perspectives and experiences. They need not feel that everything has already been done. If they have standards of excellence as a foundation, they can innovate with power.

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[ziki]

"At twelve, I read right through Walter Scott during the summer holidays; certainly such reading did extraordinarily stimulate my imagination and sensibility, but it led them into good, not evil, paths; I got from it many fine and noble impressions, which gave my soul much power of resistance against others which were seductive, violent, and corrupting."
--------
This is invaluable.

We speak about the importance of the 'third room', the meeting place beween fantasy and reality where imagination and creativity fuse. If your kids have that they won't need Ritalin.

ziki

[lcihlar]

I found Francine's book especially interesting for me because I, like many of us here, have dreams of writing. I was always told that everyone has at least one novel in them. I wanted to write a novel, but it just didn't come. I have spent a lot of time writing short stories with some small success, but one thing my reviewers always say is that my work is "beautiful." Not that the stories are particularly good, but I have a way with words. The lightbulb of enlightenment finally goes off in my head. For me it is about the words. After 25 years, I have suddenly rediscovered poetry. I have been reading it and writing it and it feels so right. The chapter on words in Francine's book gave me a real boost.

I think this chapter gave me permission to focus on that one small element and not feel self-indulgent.

[FrancineProse]

I love the Dostpyevksy quote. I wished I'd known about it before I wrote the book.

[TinaSChang]

My daughter loves to read (at age 7) but I must say the schools undermine this in a very essential way: whenever it rains or snows the kids go to the auditorium for a movie. Generally the movie chosen is one of those great stories based on a book. Thus my daughter has no interest in Harry Potter or any of the other tales whose suspense has now been destroyed. Luckily there still are plenty of books the movie industry has yet to discover. I do not find her love of computer games to in any way interfere with her reading, although perhaps they take time away from TV and sports.

As to the question of why people might write well who do not read, one should keep in mind that their imaginations are activated by movies and television. There are quite a number of excellent shows which are not just rewritten books. Since children today are brought up writing a lot in school, they have plenty of practice with this. It is quite possible few will grow up to be novelists and more will write screenplays. I have no problem with this.

As for knowing about Mark Twain and ther old classics. I had to read Mark Twain in school. Now schools are afraid parents will get upset. Instead many schools have their students watch Roots, the miniseries, as the essence of slavery in American. I have often seen students making reference to this series in their writing. Kunta Kinte is probably more well known than Jim among people under 35. I wonder sometimes if English professors educate themselves on the modern icons so they can understand the references used by today's generation. Certainly rap music makes little sense if you don't recognize the sampled tunes and the references in the lyrics.