Since 1997, you’ve been coming to BarnesandNoble.com to discuss everything from Stephen King to writing to Harry Potter. You’ve made our site more than a place to discover your next book: you’ve made it a community. But like all things internet, BN.com is growing and changing. We've said goodbye to our community message boards—but that doesn’t mean we won’t still be a place for adventurous readers to connect and discover.

Now, you can explore the most exciting new titles (and remember the classics) at the Barnes & Noble Book Blog. Check out conversations with authors like Jeff VanderMeer and Gary Shteyngart at the B&N Review, and browse write-ups of the best in literary fiction. Come to our Facebook page to weigh in on what it means to be a book nerd. Browse digital deals on the NOOK blog, tweet about books with us,or self-publish your latest novella with NOOK Press. And for those of you looking for support for your NOOK, the NOOK Support Forums will still be here.

We will continue to provide you with books that make you turn pages well past midnight, discover new worlds, and reunite with old friends. And we hope that you’ll continue to tell us how you’re doing, what you’re reading, and what books mean to you.

Reply
Author
ConnieAnnKirk
Posts: 5,472
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

[ Edited ]
amm1--You are not alone. I'm sure many readers do like this last book, but I also think those who like the series are perhaps more vocal in the Internet forums. Some readers may not want to *not* like the last book and series, if you see what I mean. Some readers naturally don't want to think they invested so much time and energy into something for so long that did not, in the end, pan out. In time, we'll hear more from those who are taking a longer view and analyzing the entire series--just on the merits of the *books* alone. I agree with you that there are a lot of problems with this last book. JKR's 'explaining' after the fact is also quite an odd thing for an author to do. I've still not yet had a chance to re-read the book, so I'm not positive if my first impressions will stick, get better, or worsen. I'm going to give it at least one more read before I form a more lasting opinion, I think. For now, I'm enjoying reading others' impressions of the book.

~ConnieK



amm1 wrote:
The internet has nothing to do with my being upset about the story. Researching and looking for clues were fun. Again, it's the content of the books, the torture, the killing, the Hero!Harry angle, loss of page time for old, great characters...it fell flat.

Part of the problem is the first books were so fun and light. Oh sure, we learned about evil Voldemort and how the Potters died. Goodness knows we have had to hear about those deaths forever and a day...talk about beating a dead horse. But for myself, reading them since the release of the first book, I got sucked into this magical funny world but with each book it got darker and darker, as JK said it would. But regardless of real life, one can still overstep the line and I think she did that.

What I can't understand is, why is it not possible that there are those who just do not like DH or the series in particular. Why is that so hard to understand? Why must it be that a person who dislikes the books must have a problem? Is it not possible for someone to not enjoy Rowlings style of writing? Don't we all have books we love but others don't? It seems people have put Rowling and HP on a pedestal, not allowing for anyone to differ.



Message Edited by ConnieK on 08-01-2007 04:03 PM
~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
New User
Ruhe
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎08-03-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

I read 1-6 in the week leading up to the release date, about one book a day, so I was able to read 7 the day after I finished 6. I saw things I'd missed even the last time I read them, clues about 6, so I think it will take another couple of times through the series to catch everything. I'm waiting for the rest of my family to finish the series first, though, before I try to read the whole thing again.

I found 7 really satisfying, and I think it helped that I didn't get too involved in speculations. I didn't have my pet theory that got shot down in the last book. I am not surprised that many people are angry about book 7 because so many of them had such high expectations, that they couldn't be satisfied. It helps to get away from the hype and remember, it's just for entertainment. If you're not entertained, there's nothing wrong with never reading them again.

I also love Lord of the Rings, but I know it isn't for everyone. It's the same with Harry Potter. I, for one, hope that people being disappointed will cause some of the hype to go away. There are many other series' of books just as good as Harry Potter, and I think people moving on to them will be a good thing.
Contributor
books1708
Posts: 19
Registered: ‎07-20-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

Psh i dont have time to reread the books i still have summer reading to do =( but ill get around to reading them all again and in order once i finish my annoying summer reading. I wish my teachers made me read HP, that would rock!!!
"His scar had not hurt in nineteen years. All was well." =)
Frequent Contributor
stacielynn
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎07-29-2007
0 Kudos

Is anyone going to read the entire series start to finish?

Now that we have the last book and we know the ending I am going to start re-reading everything from the beginning. I want to see how the books fit together now. Is anyone doing this? Have any of you gone back to the beginning and highlighted pertinate information? I think it is a really good idea to do this. What do you all think?
StacieLynn

Why does it have to end?

JKR Please write another book series.
Frequent Contributor
PattyBNUChick
Posts: 3,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Is anyone going to read the entire series start to finish?

I think its a great idea. I would do that, except well, I've already read them 8 times, scribbled in my books and have 3 or 4 notebooks full of notes. Based on the amount of stuff left unanswered and the little things that I thought were clues that went nowhere, I wish I'd only read them once or twice before lol.



stacielynn wrote:
Now that we have the last book and we know the ending I am going to start re-reading everything from the beginning. I want to see how the books fit together now. Is anyone doing this? Have any of you gone back to the beginning and highlighted pertinate information? I think it is a really good idea to do this. What do you all think?


Distinguished Correspondent
Mollywobbles
Posts: 2,931
Registered: ‎06-15-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Is anyone going to read the entire series start to finish?

I had read 1-6 probably about 5 times before DH came out. In the month or so before DH, I re-read GOF, OOTP, and HPB. I will, of course, re-read the entire series, but probably not for a while. I expect the series will go into my shelf of books I read, faithfully, once a year-kind of a pilgrimmage.



stacielynn wrote:
Now that we have the last book and we know the ending I am going to start re-reading everything from the beginning. I want to see how the books fit together now. Is anyone doing this? Have any of you gone back to the beginning and highlighted pertinate information? I think it is a really good idea to do this. What do you all think?


Distinguished Correspondent
PB684
Posts: 182
Registered: ‎08-03-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Is anyone going to read the entire series start to finish?

I will definitely go back and re-read the series at some point. Just last night my daughter (who just finished DH yesterday and can't let go!)decided to watch the movie of The Sorcerer's Stone and I found that I definitely look at things differently now that I know the end of the story, especially Snape's interactions with the other characters...although I ALWAYS believed that he would turn out good. I am looking forward to re-reading and having those AH HA! moments.

Paula
PB684
New User
prajnafaux
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Is anyone going to read the entire series start to finish?

After reading DH, I went back and re-read the entire series. Wow! There are so many things that JKR has pulled together. One of the things that I noticed this time around was that when Petunia says that she heard "that boy" telling Lily about dementors, she meant Snape! I had always assumed that she meant James Potter, but there it was in Snape's memory from when they were kids.

I am still in a kind of fog after reading through them all. Even though I knew what was going to happen I spent a good amount of time crying, especially when Dobby died.
Frequent Contributor
PattyBNUChick
Posts: 3,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Is anyone going to read the entire series start to finish?

I tried to post this elsewhere and couldn't get it to actually submit, wierd. Anyway, my sister is finally reading the series after being begged for years. She's in the middle of SS and loving it. Her daughter didn't realize she was reading it and said to me (with my sister standing there) 'I can't believe Dobby died!' My sister was hacked. So here's a lesson...even 20 years from now, don't assume that you can talk freely about DH in a group, people will still be picking them up for the first time. : )
Contributor
pottergrl7
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎06-17-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

i will deffinetly reread the series from start to finish i want to make sure i didn't miss anything. i will probably start the series again after i finish the book i am reading now...
Frequent Contributor
acciobrain
Posts: 26
Registered: ‎07-12-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

I think I planned to reread all of the books after finishing Deathly Hallows, but then I realized that I wasn't quite ready to do that yet. I don't know why, but I feel like waiting a while before rereading all of the books, letting the end of Book 7 sink in first. Someday I will of course reread all of them though, and I'm excited to be able to read the entire series from start to finish for the first time since finding out how it all ends.

Another thing that I plan to do (and this may be unrelated to the original topic) is to start a tradition of picking a Harry Potter book and reading it every July 21st. It will be a way for me to not go a year without Harry Potter in my life, and (I hope!) it will also be a way to prevent my future self from thinking of Harry Potter as just another fad in my life that I was mindlessly obsessed with. Because, even if I AM mindlessly obsessed with it, I certainly don't want that obsession to go away!
Contributor
margoolio
Posts: 7
Registered: ‎08-14-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

I just got the whole set of Harry Potter books and I am going to start reading them as soon as I finish the book I am reading now. I read the second book days before I saw the movie and decided I would rather just see the movies. Well after seeing the Order of the Pheonix I realized that I was missing a lot of the story that didn't get protrayed in the movie. So I decided to go back and read them so I could get the full story. I haven't even bought the Deathly Hollows yet and probably won't until I finish the rest of them.
Frequent Contributor
PattyBNUChick
Posts: 3,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?

You should probably read them and come back. Being on this board will ruin the ending for you : )


margoolio wrote:
I just got the whole set of Harry Potter books and I am going to start reading them as soon as I finish the book I am reading now. I read the second book days before I saw the movie and decided I would rather just see the movies. Well after seeing the Order of the Pheonix I realized that I was missing a lot of the story that didn't get protrayed in the movie. So I decided to go back and read them so I could get the full story. I haven't even bought the Deathly Hollows yet and probably won't until I finish the rest of them.


Frequent Contributor
Socratea
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?


amm1 wrote:

ConnieK wrote:
From what I'm hearing, you're not the only reader who is disappointed in the last book by far, amm1! Do you think a re-read or a series read might alter your initial emotional reaction, help put DH in context of the other 6, as it were, or do you think it's bye-bye Harry for you from now on? As people talk about what they like in the book, might that influence you on taking another look, do you think?




Maybe time will change my mind but for now, it is bye for Harry but to be honest I always said after the last book was over, it was time for me to move on.

I need to stress that I have loved these books and am not sorry at all for the years I have spent discussing them. I also need to point out that I know JKR could never, ever, please everyone.

It's just...I'm not quite sure what is so wonderful about Deathly Hallows. Sure, there were some very good parts in it but it was so boring and choppy at times. I couldn't believe how often I found myself wishing I was already in the next chapter and that is very unusual for me, especially for this series.

For the most part the humor wasn't there and no matter what has been going on in the WW, there has always been humor. But that could have been because there was so much time where we only saw Harry, Hermione and Ron. And look, I love the trio and yes, there were some funny lines between them and in the rest of the book but on the whole, very lacking compared to before.

It was as if JKR had all sorts of things she wanted to do, people to kill off and it was done in such a quick manner, almost as if she just wanted it out of the way. And all those deaths? Ummmm...overdone, almost in a sadist type way. Forgive me for saying so.

As for Harry, I know I'm in the minority on this, but it was just as bad as I expected. For most of the book I just couldn't feel for Harry. His hero status has worn on me over the years and in DH it just got worse. Harry arriving at Hogwarts as the star, once again...fighting in front of the school...overkill. Plain overkill...Hagrid carrying him in front of everyone. Couldn't stand it.

Personally, being such a huge Snape fan, I feel JKR took this most awesome character and decided the only thing Snape could have in life was hell. Hell from his youth, from his days at Hogwarts, to his death. Does one really believe that he died a good death? As someone else put it,

Snape still died hated, misunderstood, without really knowing for sure what will happen. In this JKR really was practically sadistic to Snape: she let him suffer so much and did not even let him have a peaceful death, did not let him experience even a moment of joy. I suspected she would kill him off but not in such a horrifying way.

Over the years, being on mainly Snape forums, I have run across so many abused adults and children who sympathized with Snape, not with Harry. Though Harry obviously suffered and remained such a good person, many others felt they had more in common with Snape. I'm starting to read comments from them now and they don't like the message that was sent.

So yes, for me the book fell short in many areas. Maybe one day I will see things in a different light but for now, DH is nothing more than a so-so book with a few good moments.




You wrote this post almost a month ago, but I'm still going to respond to it b/c it moved me that much, and I'm just getting started on the boards!

First off, thank you for having the courage to say how you feel about DH and, most importantly, *WHY* you feel the way you do (which is not so easy at times, believe me).

You are not the only one I've heard that is a bit disappointed with the book. A couple of my friends feel the same, but what frustrates me is that they can’t or won’t say why. As for me, my initial reaction was that the book started off great, lagged in the middle and ended with a spectacular finish. The Epilogue was a little cheesy, and that’s fine. I wouldn’t say I am disappointed; however, except for the last couple of chapters, it doesn’t feel like it is THE END, if that makes sense. It reads like another book in the series, not the final one. I have other minor hang-ups with the story, but not enough to irk and take away from the book as a whole.

Like you , I realize that not one possible ending would’ve satisfied everybody. What would’ve been thee perfect ending for me might’ve been utter garbage to anyone else. So in the end, I respect the work that she set out to do. None of the book rang false or felt contrived, even when a couple of my theories came to fruition. Ms. Rowling’s original story came to the end she saw fit to write, and I deeply respect her for that.

As far as Snape is concerned, well, I can’t help but to agree with you there! He, too, was my FAVORITE character throughout the ENTIRE SERIES. And yes, the way he died was cruel, and his ending felt unreconciled. I felt a bit cheated out of the conversation I knew must happen between Snape and Harry and that never came. That’s when I had to remind myself that this was, after all, Ms. Rowling’s work, and I had to let her drive me down the road she wanted take.

But man, what a road! Snape’s story I’ve always been interested in, more than all the others combined. I knew Harry was the hero and what path/direction he was being taken in, so I didn’t really care for his story so much (I’m sorry if it sounds a bit callous to you Harry fans, but that’s the truth of it). That’s not to say I didn’t feel for the boy—I did, but I wasn’t interested.

Now Snape, well, that’s a whole other bag of Bertie Bott’s beans! :smileywink: Every little tidbit Ms. Rowling let drop from her pen about Snape I hungrily snatched up and devoured, analyzed to the point of exhaustion and wondered to the point of insanity would become of him. Which way would he go? Who is this man and what does he want? What’s going to happen to him if doesn’t get it or if he does? Apparently, so did a lot of other people (books are written about him for Merlin’s sake!).

Ms. Rowling started to notice this phenomenon, and during one of her earlier interviews asked the question, “Why do you like Snape?” We aren’t supposed to like or empathize with this man, but a large majority is drawn to his story all the same. I think this bothered Ms. Rowling a bit, because she began to see that if left unchecked, Snape was poised to overtake and overshadow her beloved hero, Harry, and she couldn’t let that happen. She walked a fine line, though, but in the end Snape was cut down and treated rather ruthlessly (from both sides, mind you), and that was the end of that. Anyway, that’s my take on why she dealt him the raw deal from start to finish.
§ Slytherin, Noblest of the Hogwarts Four §

“oh no a Lethifold’s got me I’m suffocating.”
New User
Ruhe
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎08-03-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?



Socratea wrote:
As far as Snape is concerned, well, I can’t help but to agree with you there! He, too, was my FAVORITE character throughout the ENTIRE SERIES. And yes, the way he died was cruel, and his ending felt unreconciled. I felt a bit cheated out of the conversation I knew must happen between Snape and Harry and that never came. That’s when I had to remind myself that this was, after all, Ms. Rowling’s work, and I had to let her drive me down the road she wanted take.

But man, what a road! Snape’s story I’ve always been interested in, more than all the others combined. I knew Harry was the hero and what path/direction he was being taken in, so I didn’t really care for his story so much (I’m sorry if it sounds a bit callous to you Harry fans, but that’s the truth of it). That’s not to say I didn’t feel for the boy—I did, but I wasn’t interested.

Now Snape, well, that’s a whole other bag of Bertie Bott’s beans! :smileywink: Every little tidbit Ms. Rowling let drop from her pen about Snape I hungrily snatched up and devoured, analyzed to the point of exhaustion and wondered to the point of insanity would become of him. Which way would he go? Who is this man and what does he want? What’s going to happen to him if doesn’t get it or if he does? Apparently, so did a lot of other people (books are written about him for Merlin’s sake!).

Ms. Rowling started to notice this phenomenon, and during one of her earlier interviews asked the question, “Why do you like Snape?” We aren’t supposed to like or empathize with this man, but a large majority is drawn to his story all the same. I think this bothered Ms. Rowling a bit, because she began to see that if left unchecked, Snape was poised to overtake and overshadow her beloved hero, Harry, and she couldn’t let that happen. She walked a fine line, though, but in the end Snape was cut down and treated rather ruthlessly (from both sides, mind you), and that was the end of that. Anyway, that’s my take on why she dealt him the raw deal from start to finish.




Snape is by far the most complex character in the Harry Potter series. You're kept guessing about his motivations the whole time. Even if you feel, as I did, that Dumbledore was right about his trustworthiness, and there was a reason Dumbledore needed Snape to kill him, you still knew there were deep motivations you couldn't guess.

I don't think there ever could have been a conversation between Harry and Snape that would have convinced Harry that Snape was telling the truth. Harry had to see Snape's memories to finally believe the truth about him. And could Snape really have not died? Would anyone ever trust him again? He was Voldemort's chosen Headmaster! It wouldn't have mattered what Harry said, Snape would have gone to prison.

His death was good, because he was allowed redemption. When he died, it looked like Voldemort was winning, and he still wanted Lily's son to know the truth about him. He truly did turn away from the Death Eaters, just like Lily always wanted him to. And he wanted her son to know that. He could never have told him, straight out, because he kept seeing James in Harry.

After his death, people would be more likely to believe Harry's story about Snape. "Voldemort killed Snape, his number one guy?! Snape must have betrayed him!" Snape would eventually get his good name restored. And that is why it was a "good death." Not that the method of his murder was good. What method is? It was the redemption allowed to him.

I don't believe Snape got "a raw deal." I don't think Rowling was worried that his popularity would detract from Harry's. Authors don't think about their characters that way (I should know, I am married to one). I think she asked why people liked Snape so she could know if people were really understanding what she was writing about him. When you write as complex of a character as Snape in a children's book, you want to make sure people understand that he is complex, I think.
Frequent Contributor
Socratea
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?


Ruhe wrote:
I read 1-6 in the week leading up to the release date, about one book a day, so I was able to read 7 the day after I finished 6. I saw things I'd missed even the last time I read them, clues about 6, so I think it will take another couple of times through the series to catch everything. I'm waiting for the rest of my family to finish the series first, though, before I try to read the whole thing again.

I found 7 really satisfying, and I think it helped that I didn't get too involved in speculations. I didn't have my pet theory that got shot down in the last book. I am not surprised that many people are angry about book 7 because so many of them had such high expectations, that they couldn't be satisfied. It helps to get away from the hype and remember, it's just for entertainment. If you're not entertained, there's nothing wrong with never reading them again.

I also love Lord of the Rings, but I know it isn't for everyone. It's the same with Harry Potter. I, for one, hope that people being disappointed will cause some of the hype to go away. There are many other series' of books just as good as Harry Potter, and I think people moving on to them will be a good thing.




Ruhe, I think you bring up a great point in that some people are upset because their theories didn't pan out, or the story didn't go the way they thought it would. I've never been caught up this much in any other novel or series, nor have I speculated and pondered so much about what *must* happen, as much as I have with Harry Potter.

After having several "pet theories" of mine dashed to bits in HBP, and being quite angry about it really, I had to make myself realize that this was Ms. Rowling's story to tell, not mine, and if I didn't like the way things turned out, I could always sod off and write my own fan fic (I did).

I wish I could say I learned my lesson with the speculation and developing theories I knew *must* be right or just *had to* come to fruition. No, after HPB, there I was again, obsessing over every little thing and trying to figure out what had to happen. It was too much fun NOT to do those things. But this time, I had perspective, so if I was proved wrong, I wouldn't let that ruin the experience like before.

Well before you know it, DH was published. After a weekend of voracious reading (and having a few of my pet theories pan out, thank you very much), I didn't get the smug thrill of satisfaction I thought I would. I felt cheated; here I was, reading the final conclusion of HP with holes in. I wish I could’ve went in completely blindfolded and just let Ms. Rowling take me on the adventure w/o all the guessing.

This is not to say that I don’t have any hang-ups with the story—I do, just not in this department, which, I think, is the root cause for a lot of people’s “unsatisfactoriness.” Maybe if they stopped and thought about it, or just stepped away for a while and viewed DH w/o all the hype and expectations, they could find enjoyment in the story.
§ Slytherin, Noblest of the Hogwarts Four §

“oh no a Lethifold’s got me I’m suffocating.”
Frequent Contributor
Socratea
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?



ConnieK wrote:
amm1--You are not alone. I'm sure many readers do like this last book, but I also think those who like the series are perhaps more vocal in the Internet forums. Some readers may not want to *not* like the last book and series, if you see what I mean. Some readers naturally don't want to think they invested so much time and energy into something for so long that did not, in the end, pan out. In time, we'll hear more from those who are taking a longer view and analyzing the entire series--just on the merits of the *books* alone. I agree with you that there are a lot of problems with this last book. JKR's 'explaining' after the fact is also quite an odd thing for an author to do. I've still not yet had a chance to re-read the book, so I'm not positive if my first impressions will stick, get better, or worsen. I'm going to give it at least one more read before I form a more lasting opinion, I think. For now, I'm enjoying reading others' impressions of the book.

~ConnieK



amm1 wrote:
The internet has nothing to do with my being upset about the story. Researching and looking for clues were fun. Again, it's the content of the books, the torture, the killing, the Hero!Harry angle, loss of page time for old, great characters...it fell flat.

Part of the problem is the first books were so fun and light. Oh sure, we learned about evil Voldemort and how the Potters died. Goodness knows we have had to hear about those deaths forever and a day...talk about beating a dead horse. But for myself, reading them since the release of the first book, I got sucked into this magical funny world but with each book it got darker and darker, as JK said it would. But regardless of real life, one can still overstep the line and I think she did that.

What I can't understand is, why is it not possible that there are those who just do not like DH or the series in particular. Why is that so hard to understand? Why must it be that a person who dislikes the books must have a problem? Is it not possible for someone to not enjoy Rowlings style of writing? Don't we all have books we love but others don't? It seems people have put Rowling and HP on a pedestal, not allowing for anyone to differ.



Message Edited by ConnieK on 08-01-2007 04:03 PM




Connie

Connie, I don’t think it was so odd for Ms. Rowling to “explain” after the fact. After all, she has a legion of obsessive fans to satisfy, and I think this was one of the ways she thought to do it. The Webchat cleared up some things, but I viewed it as extra “FYIs” for her obsessive fans to ponder over now that the series is done. She revealed nothing in the Webchat that would’ve made DH “clearer” or “less confusing.” The information is great to know, but not need to know, if that makes sense. Same goes for the rumoured HP Encyclopedia she may publish someday.

Of course, if you are referring to another event besides the Webchat, then I’m a rambling, washed up Slytherin who has shot her bolt, and this post means nothing. :smileywink:
§ Slytherin, Noblest of the Hogwarts Four §

“oh no a Lethifold’s got me I’m suffocating.”
Frequent Contributor
Socratea
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?


Ruhe wrote:


Socratea wrote:
As far as Snape is concerned, well, I can’t help but to agree with you there! He, too, was my FAVORITE character throughout the ENTIRE SERIES. And yes, the way he died was cruel, and his ending felt unreconciled. I felt a bit cheated out of the conversation I knew must happen between Snape and Harry and that never came. That’s when I had to remind myself that this was, after all, Ms. Rowling’s work, and I had to let her drive me down the road she wanted take.

But man, what a road! Snape’s story I’ve always been interested in, more than all the others combined. I knew Harry was the hero and what path/direction he was being taken in, so I didn’t really care for his story so much (I’m sorry if it sounds a bit callous to you Harry fans, but that’s the truth of it). That’s not to say I didn’t feel for the boy—I did, but I wasn’t interested.

Now Snape, well, that’s a whole other bag of Bertie Bott’s beans! :smileywink: Every little tidbit Ms. Rowling let drop from her pen about Snape I hungrily snatched up and devoured, analyzed to the point of exhaustion and wondered to the point of insanity would become of him. Which way would he go? Who is this man and what does he want? What’s going to happen to him if doesn’t get it or if he does? Apparently, so did a lot of other people (books are written about him for Merlin’s sake!).

Ms. Rowling started to notice this phenomenon, and during one of her earlier interviews asked the question, “Why do you like Snape?” We aren’t supposed to like or empathize with this man, but a large majority is drawn to his story all the same. I think this bothered Ms. Rowling a bit, because she began to see that if left unchecked, Snape was poised to overtake and overshadow her beloved hero, Harry, and she couldn’t let that happen. She walked a fine line, though, but in the end Snape was cut down and treated rather ruthlessly (from both sides, mind you), and that was the end of that. Anyway, that’s my take on why she dealt him the raw deal from start to finish.




Snape is by far the most complex character in the Harry Potter series. You're kept guessing about his motivations the whole time. Even if you feel, as I did, that Dumbledore was right about his trustworthiness, and there was a reason Dumbledore needed Snape to kill him, you still knew there were deep motivations you couldn't guess.

I don't think there ever could have been a conversation between Harry and Snape that would have convinced Harry that Snape was telling the truth. Harry had to see Snape's memories to finally believe the truth about him. And could Snape really have not died? Would anyone ever trust him again? He was Voldemort's chosen Headmaster! It wouldn't have mattered what Harry said, Snape would have gone to prison.

His death was good, because he was allowed redemption. When he died, it looked like Voldemort was winning, and he still wanted Lily's son to know the truth about him. He truly did turn away from the Death Eaters, just like Lily always wanted him to. And he wanted her son to know that. He could never have told him, straight out, because he kept seeing James in Harry.

After his death, people would be more likely to believe Harry's story about Snape. "Voldemort killed Snape, his number one guy?! Snape must have betrayed him!" Snape would eventually get his good name restored. And that is why it was a "good death." Not that the method of his murder was good. What method is? It was the redemption allowed to him.

I don't believe Snape got "a raw deal." I don't think Rowling was worried that his popularity would detract from Harry's. Authors don't think about their characters that way (I should know, I am married to one). I think she asked why people liked Snape so she could know if people were really understanding what she was writing about him. When you write as complex of a character as Snape in a children's book, you want to make sure people understand that he is complex, I think.




Sorry, Ruhe, I'm a Slytherin so I see things a bit differently than you do :smileywink:. Didn't get the "raw deal," you say? Hmmm, I'm not so sure Mr. Snape would agree w/ you there, LOL. Oh sure, he got the message across to Lily's son, got his name cleared (finally!) in Europe's Wizarding World, but what's the use of that when you're already DEAD and GONE!?!?! And to add insult to injury, it was the Potter brat who had to clear your name for you! :smileywink: For somebody like Snape, fulfilling his roles so thoroughly, being so good at playing bad that no one (except for two people) would fully know the truth is a thankless job. For Snape, when one of your biggest desires is recognition and accolades, it is a “raw deal.” It would've been nice for him to be alive and receive positive, sincere gratitude, from others besides Dumbledore, just for once before dying, that's all.

And I don't think it would've been as hard as you make it out to be. If his memories are good enough for Harry, why not everybody else? We all know what happens when you try to "fake it" w/ a memory--the effects are clearly visible. For me, there'd be no better proof. Or, if you pooh-pooh the "happily ever after" route for Snape (who could picture it, after all?) what about a blaze of glory death during the final battle? Snape letting his outstanding Occulumency guard down just once for the Dark Lord to see he’s been had—priceless!

And as for redemption, well, he was already on that path, long before Harry & Co. "absolved" him of any wrongdoing after the fact, so it's back to Point #1.

Seriously, all baser satisfactions aside, this is what I truly meant when I said Snape got the “raw deal.” He’s the tragic anti-hero who suffered at the hands of his family, was unpopular among his own kind (magical folk) at school, fell in w/ the wrong crowd, didn’t get the girl, realized his mistakes and repented (after a fashion), and worked against the Dark Lord until his dying breath—with no one the wiser (except for Dumbledore), until Harry takes a trip down Snape’s memory lane. Doing the right thing and/or redeeming one’s self is already tough, but Snape pulled it off while being hated against the very side he was risking his life to help, AND NO ONE COULD EVER KNOW (except for Dumbledore). It’s necessary and practical work, yes, but difficult to pull off and an awful burden to carry, nonetheless. C’mon, you gotta feel for the guy! LOL :smileywink: From start to finish, Snape got the “raw deal.”

But thank you for your perspective on why Ms. Rowling asked that question. Your explanation never would've occurred to me otherwise (too much Slytherin pride, I guess, LOL). But there will always be that niggling in the back of my mind that goes, "She knows, she *knows*....Snape’s the star--QUICK! Do something! KILL HIM! NOW! (sigh of relief after the nasty business is done).”

Just my two cents. :smileywink:
§ Slytherin, Noblest of the Hogwarts Four §

“oh no a Lethifold’s got me I’m suffocating.”
Frequent Contributor
Socratea
Posts: 54
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?


ConnieK wrote:
Most Harry Potter readers are currently working their way through DEATHLY HALLOWS or are maybe even indulging in a reread right away. Many are taking their time digesting what they have read and are discussing the story and their feelings about it in forums like our book club and with their friends and family. One of the points that keeps coming up is how much fun it will be, now that the whole story is written, to read the entire series from start to finish. It may be way too early to ask this, but is anyone out there planning to read Books 1-7 right away? If so, are you eager to make note of the foreshadowings that you may have missed before in the earlier books, despite perhaps reading them more than once? If not, do you think you will eventually want to do this, and if so, when? In a few days? weeks? months? longer?

We might also use this thread as a place to start some initial conversations about the series as a whole.




I would love to immediately read the entire series now that it's all done and over with, but I'm afraid that won't be possible b/c of time constraints and other interests. I'm having a ball letting DH sink in, and discussing it like mad with other, rabid HP fans (HELLO ALL!). So no, I don't think I'll start reading all of them right away, but I definitely plan on treating myself to the challenge during the holiday season. It'll be perfect!

What's so great about the books is that everyone sees something different in them, and forms their views and opinions accordingly. I LOVE that a series of books can have that effect on the masses. So, to answer your question, yes I think I'll always discover something else whenever I revisit Harry's world. These books are truly the gift that keeps on giving!
§ Slytherin, Noblest of the Hogwarts Four §

“oh no a Lethifold’s got me I’m suffocating.”
Inspired Bibliophile
Psychee
Posts: 7,307
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
0 Kudos

Re: Anyone Reading 1-7?


Socratea wrote:
*snip*
And as for redemption, well, he was already on that path, long before Harry & Co. "absolved" him of any wrongdoing after the fact, so it's back to Point #1.

Seriously, all baser satisfactions aside, this is what I truly meant when I said Snape got the “raw deal.” He’s the tragic anti-hero who suffered at the hands of his family, was unpopular among his own kind (magical folk) at school, fell in w/ the wrong crowd, didn’t get the girl, realized his mistakes and repented (after a fashion), and worked against the Dark Lord until his dying breath—with no one the wiser (except for Dumbledore), until Harry takes a trip down Snape’s memory lane. Doing the right thing and/or redeeming one’s self is already tough, but Snape pulled it off while being hated against the very side he was risking his life to help, AND NO ONE COULD EVER KNOW (except for Dumbledore). It’s necessary and practical work, yes, but difficult to pull off and an awful burden to carry, nonetheless. C’mon, you gotta feel for the guy! LOL :smileywink: From start to finish, Snape got the “raw deal.”






I do NOT feel for Snape...

He might have been working for the side of "good", but he was still a genuinely NASTY person -- that part wasn't fake.

If Harry had ever been in a position to thank him in person, Snape would respond to that thanks with a rotten demoralizing comment back.

He was not a "nice guy in disguise" or a "nice guy playacting as an evil guy"... he was a rotten human being who sucked happiness out of any place he found it; he was atoning for one bad thing he did while continuing to be rotten in other ways.

He never cared about Harry as a human being -- Harry was only an object -- protected because that object belonged to Lily and tormented because that object also belonged to James. Never once did Snape think of Harry's personal feelings.

In turn, Snape was just an object to Voldemort -- and he disposed of him with about the same amount of empathy (actually, more, since he did apologize for it) as Snape showed Harry.

I don't think he got a raw deal at all... :smileyhappy: