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Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Defiantly.

However I was referencing more along the lines of Stepford Wives, Manchurian Candidate, Wickerman, I am Legend, and so on; when I mentioned remakes.

But I do not think movies such as "A Scanner Darkly" could have been made in the past.

What I am really talking about is a wholesale desperate clutching from Hollywood at literary works, and how this is negatively affecting peoples perceptions of the original material.
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Psychee
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

I don't know about the "negatively affecting materials" part, but I would imagine that movies are huge investments and that the safest material to use are stories which already have proved to be successful, either in book form or prior movie form.  A title that many people have read will immediately generate interest and sales, while a new title has to start from scratch to generate interest.  If you were the person who had to cough up millions of dollars to make a movie which could bomb out in the box office, thus losing your entire investment, which would you choose?  Something new or something already proven?  Most movies, I think, when they are not re-makes of old titles, are strongly derivative just for that reason... they take something that has proven itself, twist the plot a bit, and sell it as something likely to have the same appeal as the original in the box office. 
 
That does not mean that new stuff isn't written, and it does not mean that new stuff written isn't terrific.  What it does mean is that few companies, in this risky economy, are willing to invest in unproven works. 
 
I also don't think that is a new thing.  Didn't George Lucas have to finance his Star Wars himself because no one else would take the financial risk? 
 


TiggerBear wrote:
Defiantly.

However I was referencing more along the lines of Stepford Wives, Manchurian Candidate, Wickerman, I am Legend, and so on; when I mentioned remakes.

But I do not think movies such as "A Scanner Darkly" could have been made in the past.

What I am really talking about is a wholesale desperate clutching from Hollywood at literary works, and how this is negatively affecting peoples perceptions of the original material.


 
Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

I also don't think that is a new thing. Didn't George Lucas have to finance his Star Wars himself because no one else would take the financial risk?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucas gave them a rough sketch of 9 stories, they picked number 4 and told him can you do it for this much? Afterword they agreed to fund the next, a try and see. He funded others simply because then he would reap all the profits not just a share. I'm thinking you might be confusing this with him creating Industrial Light and Magic, the special effect company. Which he did have to step up to the plate first for.


And I think the Super Poor Box Office levels on all these remakes is a very good example why a studio with half a brain might choose new material.


You will find a lot of people refuse to read a book because they saw a sucky movie version of it first.
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Psychee
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR



TiggerBear wrote:

You will find a lot of people refuse to read a book because they saw a sucky movie version of it first.

Oh, yes... isn't that horrible?  I think that happens especially with people who really don't like to read.  I think a person needs to both read and view a movie of several different titles before he learns that (1) movies are an entirely different experience, (2) the endings can be completely different, (3) the how and why of what happens can be completely different, and (4) the books are almost always richer in content. 
 
Even remakes of movies are different.  When the most recent Stepford Wives movie came out, I didn't want to see it, having seen the original, which was a horror flick.  Imagine my surprise when I found out that the most recent film was a comedy!  Totally different scripts!
Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Personally though both versions sucked.

But recently even true readers are getting turned off by bad movies versions.
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IBreatheBooks
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

I am currently reading Two Towers, and I'm seeing lots of comparisons. A small one that maybe someone has not mentioned is that there's Longbottom in LotR. I saw that, and I was like 'hmmm...I wonder....'
'U know u've read a good book when u turn the last page and feel a little as if u have lost a friend.'--'The books that the world calls immoral are the books that show the world its own shame.'--'We shouldnt teach great books we should teach a love of reading.'--'Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings.'--'Book lovers will understand me, and they will know 2 that part of the pleasure of a library lies in its very existence'
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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Welcome, IBreathe!
 
I didn't know there was a Longbottom in LOTR.  Are there any similiarities between the 2 characters?
 
~ConnieK
 


IBreatheBooks wrote:
I am currently reading Two Towers, and I'm seeing lots of comparisons. A small one that maybe someone has not mentioned is that there's Longbottom in LotR. I saw that, and I was like 'hmmm...I wonder....'


~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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phrodo41
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

I'm pretty sure Longbottom is just another hobbit family name like Baggins or Brandybuck or Proudfood. If there is an individual with this name, he's not really a major character.
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TiggerBear
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

hmm, not to spoil the party but Longbottom is a British country name.
And since both authors come from Britain, the usage is less than odd.
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phrodo41
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

If you want to talk about people's names, Wormtongue and Wormtail bear alot of similarities, both being treacherous cowards who leech off other people's power.
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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

It's not that the name may seem uncommon to American ears--it's that, common or not, the authors can use any name they choose for their characters, so seeing character names in common is significant, especially if the latter author admits to having read the earlier one.
 
~ConnieK
 


TiggerBear wrote:
hmm, not to spoil the party but Longbottom is a British country name.
And since both authors come from Britain, the usage is less than odd.


~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Do find common names of other countries odd. If both author were Russian I wouldn't blink at both of the using Ivanich, or Swedish using Lonsdaughter, ect... That's all I'm saying.
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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Hi, Tigger--If someone were going to write an essay or paper on names in common between LOTR and HP, I agree that person would have to address the national origins of the authors, as you suggest, in relation to the names.  With Longbottom, for example, maybe if it's a common name in Britain as you say, one could examine a common name in relation to the charcters both Tolkien and Rowling gave that name.  Each author used that common name for a reason.  Is Neville named that, for example, as another way to make him blend in and not stand out at first?  Is the LOTR Longbottom a similarly "common" or "minor" character, at least in part of the book (in HP, Neville seems minor at first but builds into a fairly important character later)?  If the person doing this noticed several names in common, or parts of names, between the two series, I think one could build an interesting argument linking different traits from HP to LOTR characters with those names in common.
 
~ConnieK
 


TiggerBear wrote:
Do find common names of other countries odd. If both author were Russian I wouldn't blink at both of the using Ivanich, or Swedish using Lonsdaughter, ect... That's all I'm saying.


~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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lorien
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

[ Edited ]
:smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy:

Don't mind me! Longbottom in LOTR is a place name and a much favored "Pipe Weed" is called that.

Page 8: LOTR (Prologue)

"But all accounts agree that Tobold Hornblower of Longbottom in the Southfarthing first grew the true pipe-weed in the days of Isengrim the Second...The best home-grown still comes from that district, especially the varieties now known as Longbottom Leaf, Old Toby, and Southern Star."
---------

The original poster probably saw it in the chapter on Flotsam and Jetsam in the Two Towers:

"Gimli took some and rubbed it in his palms and sniffed it. 'It feels and and smells good,' he said.
'It is good!' said Merry. 'My dear Gimli, it is Longbottom leaf!'"
--------

Poor Neville! He is now being compared to a tobacco leaf! I bet if I put my mind to it I could come up with a discussion point. :smileywink:

We are only up to page 200 in the first book of the Fellowship of the Ring in the Tolkien group. I suppose we could set up a thread here and note similarities in LOTR and Harry Potter as we go along but not as obvious copy-cat items. Some are not obvious. I see a lot of similarities between Ron and Pippin. However, I don't see the discussion on them as a "copy-cat" thing at all but as two characters with similar personality obstacles to overcome. The same thing with the two Dark Lords--I see them being compared on on literary level but again not as a copy-cat thing. And certainly between Dumbledore and Gandalf--they both were somewhat manipulative mentors of their charges and had a master plan. Both Harry and Frodo were just ordinary folk but the times and circumstances forced them to reluctantly rise to the occasion and do what could not be done by stronger and more powerful people. However, in the end Harry succeeded and lived happily ever after. Frodo failed but only in the final crucial act and was scarred forever.


ConnieK wrote:

Hi, Tigger--If someone were going to write an essay or paper on names in common between LOTR and HP, I agree that person would have to address the national origins of the authors, as you suggest, in relation to the names. With Longbottom, for example, maybe if it's a common name in Britain as you say, one could examine a common name in relation to the charcters both Tolkien and Rowling gave that name. Each author used that common name for a reason. Is Neville named that, for example, as another way to make him blend in and not stand out at first? Is the LOTR Longbottom a similarly "common" or "minor" character, at least in part of the book (in HP, Neville seems minor at first but builds into a fairly important character later)? If the person doing this noticed several names in common, or parts of names, between the two series, I think one could build an interesting argument linking different traits from HP to LOTR characters with those names in common.


~ConnieK








TiggerBear wrote:
Do find common names of other countries odd. If both author were Russian I wouldn't blink at both of the using Ivanich, or Swedish using Lonsdaughter, ect... That's all I'm saying.









Message Edited by lorien on 03-28-2008 08:41 PM
Inspired Bibliophile
Psychee
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Well, I think if one were to write that essay on names that both books have in common, one would need to also point out that the Harry Potter story has something like over 1000 named characters.   With that kind of sheer volume, wouldn't you expect, by chance alone, that some characters would have names similar to other writers' characters?
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phrodo41
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

For the record, I don't think there is actually a character named 'longbottom.' Bilbo is listing a bunch of hobbit family names in his birthday greeting/speech. He just rattles off a bunch of names like Proudfoot, Brandybuck, Longbottom, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong...
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Kreacherteacher
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Well, he was an excellent herbology student.

lorien wrote:

Poor Neville! He is now being compared to a tobacco leaf! I bet if I put my mind to it I could come up with a discussion point. :smileywink:


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lorien
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR


Kreacherteacher wrote:
Well, he was an excellent herbology student.

lorien wrote:

Poor Neville! He is now being compared to a tobacco leaf! I bet if I put my mind to it I could come up with a discussion point. :smileywink:







Ah, ha! Definitely a connection! I bet if you consulted one of the VERY long genealogies in the Red Book of Westmarch you would find that the Longbottoms were related to Tobold Hornblower of Longbottom. They acquired their magical power when Tongo Hornblower (brother of Tanta Hornblower who married Largo Baggins the son of Balbo Baggins and who was the great grandmother of Frodo) married a half-elvin who was descended from the line of Luthian (on her mother's side) and Radagast the Brown (on her father's side). I knew there had to be a connection!

This is fun! :smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy:
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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Actually, no, I wouldn't, Psychee.  Names are too important to JKR, as they are to most fiction writers.  A coincidence with books she hadn't read, maybe, but not to another well-known fantasy series she is reported to have read.  Then again, I maybe be giving her too much credit.
 
~ConnieK
 


Psychee wrote:
Well, I think if one were to write that essay on names that both books have in common, one would need to also point out that the Harry Potter story has something like over 1000 named characters.   With that kind of sheer volume, wouldn't you expect, by chance alone, that some characters would have names similar to other writers' characters?



~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
Author
ConnieAnnKirk
Posts: 5,472
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: Comparisons Between HP & LOTR

Is that right?  Well, I haven't read LOTR, so I wouldn't know.  Hmm....now what comparisons can we make out of this one?  Ha.
 
~ConnieK
 


lorien wrote:
:smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy: :smileyvery-happy:

Don't mind me! Longbottom in LOTR is a place name and a much favored "Pipe Weed" is called that.

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]