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LovelyLuna
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Re: Dumbledore gay???



Everyman wrote:
Certainly not every one is. Indeed, very few are. Though it is also undeniable in light of the number of abused choirboys who have come forward over the years and the history of some boarding school students in very hierarchical school environments that there are many more than we would like to think.

But when you have one who chooses and maintains for many years a position of great power over large numbers of boys and young men, who has the power and ability to conceal such acts from the world and appear blameless, and who has no other apparent sexual outlet, the odds increase dramatically.

Perhaps, as in the quotation in your signature, he aimed to misbehave.

Do you have any reason to think that my supposition is impossible?

ShadowCougar wrote:
I am really really hoping this is a bad joke, and not your accually belief that every homosexual is a pedophile.. either way I see this entire statement as rather offensive.



Everyman wrote:
It makes sense, particularly given what we know about the relationship in way too many cases between priests and choirboys.

Dumbledore not only has the authority to order any male student to come up to his isolated and very private quarters, but as the best wizard of all he certainly has the power through spells, charms, or potions to impel any student he wants to engage sexually with him.

How has he kept this secret for so long? Again, obvious. He has the power to cast spells to keep his young victims from speaking out about their experiences with him.

It all makes perfect sense. It explains why he would have sought and would hang on so fiercely to this position of power over boys and young men, why he never married, and why he never hired any even moderately attractive young women as teachers.

For one may smile and smile and be a villain.






Message Edited by Everyman on 11-07-2007 11:08 AM





Everyman, I sense this whole Dumbledore is gay, and in your mind possibly a pedophile, is hitting a little close to home. You can confide in Luna...why does this feel so personal to you?

You other guys lay off him, I know the type, he's trying to make a point and coming off as utterly obnoxious, and prolly laughing at you all for taking him seriously.
Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a Gift, that's why they call it "The Present."
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

I understand the feelings behind this, because I would've preferred this not having been true (DD being gay), but the fact is that the Harry Potter fandom, in general, has been begging for every single detail and aching for all the backstory not revealed in her books. Now, if we don't LIKE what that is, that is our own business/problem. Anyone who doesn't want to know, simply shouldn't buy her "encyclopedia" when it comes out.

I don't agree that J.K. is messing with our characters; they are her characters and it is her story. How each individual reacts to and feels about those characters is what belongs to the individual, not the actual backstory/reality of the characters the author created. What each individual reader comes away with after reading the stories belongs solely to that individual, but the fact remains that J.K. owns every consonant and vowel of the final drafts and everything she wrote before and will write after it and it is up to her how she chose to create it, whether we like it or not.

I think someone else mentioned what happened with Tolkien. I don't remember in which book he did a lot of explaining of interpretations of his Lord of the Rings trilogy, but one thing I remember him clearing up was that the present-day issues going on in his day (the war, etc.) were not the influence on his plotting, as so many readers/experts insisted. Anyway, J.K. has the right to say whatever she wants about her work, and again, whether or not we accept what the truth is, is our own prerogative.
: Donna



PEGSmom wrote:

damIzfrodogay2 wrote:
MollyWobbles said:

"Telling me after the fact that Dumbledore is gay is like deciding later to add dimples to the Mona Lisa. It's too late, the portrait is complete-it is what it is."

Got to agree with yuh. In addition to DD bein gay he'd of almost certainly been an Obama supporter and a Colt's fan.

Ye-haw!


I have to agree, she is messing with my (fantasy) world, changing my friends. She "finished" the story now leave it be!

BTW, Welcome damiIzfrodogay2! Love the name :smileyhappy:

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HPSeeker
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

Flargin'? Never heard that one, but I like it! Where's it from or is it an original?!
: Donna



Kreacherteacher wrote:
How flargin' cool is that?!


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HPSeeker
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Re: What happened to the human race?

Actually, the thread isn't just covering the gay factor; it has been a discussion of whether or not Jo has the right or should reveal this kind of info and the effect it has on us as individuals. I think it's pretty interesting in that way :smileyhappy:
: Donna



hemustbeaflamer wrote:
16 pages? seriously is this what our lives have come to? This is really kind of sad. and don't get mad because I'm saying it about myself, too. But we really need to find something better to do. Now that our basic needs are fulfilled we need somethingto do I guess. If you read from the beginning of this discussion it will drive you crazy. Some people are for it some people against it and some people don't care and just want to make a joke now and then. The conversation goes in circles and never gets anywhere. The wizard's gay we all know it's over and done.


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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

Phrodo, I just wanted to comment that I agree completely on what you said about all this.
: Donna



phrodo41 wrote:smileysurprised:K, your position makes more sense to me now, although I can't say I relate. I guess that's just a really different way of enjoying the series that maybe I haven't thought about. I was a Bible major in college, which meant lots of studying greek and arguing over what certain ancient texts mean. The assumption being that there is a definite meaning that can be derived from a given text, but we have to understand the language, history, culture, audience, and any number of complex factors in order to arrive at a certain conclusion. So this is the mindset I'm used to - that if you know certain background information, you get a richer and more profound understanding of things; and that this background stuff matters much more than whatever it is that your interpretation means to you personally. Does that make sense?

Jo coming out and saying "Albus is gay," to me, is like God (or the Apostle John) coming down and giving authoritative commentary on a tricky passage in the book of revelation once and for all . . . or it's like suddenly getting a deleted scene on a DVD; like how when the Extended LOTR discs came out, there were scenes that explained other scenes more fully. So I guess in my mind there is only Jo's stuff, Jo's characters and Jo's world that she has been gracious enough to let us explore.

So yeah, your view kinda does sound a little presumptuous to me, but only b/c of my background :smileyhappy:

Some of you criticizing her for 'tweaking' or 'adding to' a character that is already in stone, I think you're forgetting that this is something she knew about Dumbledore years and years ago, when she was still plotting out the series.

It's just that she hadn't decided to tell anyone until very recently when it came up in an interview. I agree with her that these are and always will be her characters and she can handle them any way she wants to. She doesn't owe it to anyone to 'let go of the puppies' as one of you put it. I'd personally find this notion rather insulting if I were in her shoes. None of us are in the position to tell her what she should and shouldn't do.

Oh, and hemustbeaflamer: please stop trolling; it's kind of annoying.

Message Edited by phrodo41 on 11-06-2007 09:06 PM


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HPSeeker
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Re: Dumbledore gay???

Everyman, I am completely appalled at these statements! This is definitely not the man Dumbledore was and Jo would never have created him to be such a despicable character. I would think that it is THIS kind of thinking that would also keep her from having made anything obvious in her books. This is pathetic.
: Donna



Everyman wrote:
It makes sense, particularly given what we know about the relationship in way too many cases between priests and choirboys.

Dumbledore not only has the authority to order any male student to come up to his isolated and very private quarters, but as the best wizard of all he certainly has the power through spells, charms, or potions to impel any student he wants to engage sexually with him.

How has he kept this secret for so long? Again, obvious. He has the power to cast spells to keep his young victims from speaking out about their experiences with him.

It all makes perfect sense. It explains why he would have sought and would hang on so fiercely to this position of power over boys and young men, why he never married, and why he never hired any even moderately attractive young women as teachers.

For one may smile and smile and be a villain.


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HPSeeker
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Re: Dumbledore gay???

They are fictional characters, but extremely influential fictional characters! Haven't you noticed that the media (ALL media) has a direct influence on society? There is no way that J.K. Rowling would EVER make one of the good guys a pedophile. Voldemort was evil, but he wasn't a pedophile that I could imagine. I think there are some subjects she chose to not even address, and that would be one of them. For you to have this opinion of the Dumbledore character, I can only imagine what you read into all the other characters. Think of the audience. Her books addressed some very serious issues, but not the kind you wish to put in there. Why don't you add flat out rape? And as far as I can tell, there were also a lot of female students at that school. Perhaps McGonagall played on them? Give me a break.
: Donna




Everyman wrote:

halfscripts wrote:
...He is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, therefore if Rowling doesn't come out and say "oh ps Harry and Dumbledore were totally hitting it yall" it means it never happened. Case closed.

You and I obviously have very different ways of reading books. So if Rowling doesn't say that Harry breathed, he didn't; if Rowling doesn't say that he ate breakfast, he didn't. I consider that a very limited way of reading a book, but if it's your way, fine.

Of course, the literal reality is that, since they are all fictional characters, they didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL. Nothing ever happened, they never did a thing, and why are we even bothering to read these books?

Message Edited by Everyman on 11-07-2007 11:03 PM


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Mollywobbles
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

There are an equal number of people who think that the characters belong to the public once the books have been published. You might want to check out a couple of the links to various newspaper articles Connie posted previously on this thread.



HPSeeker wrote:
I understand the feelings behind this, because I would've preferred this not having been true (DD being gay), but the fact is that the Harry Potter fandom, in general, has been begging for every single detail and aching for all the backstory not revealed in her books. Now, if we don't LIKE what that is, that is our own business/problem. Anyone who doesn't want to know, simply shouldn't buy her "encyclopedia" when it comes out.

I don't agree that J.K. is messing with our characters; they are her characters and it is her story. How each individual reacts to and feels about those characters is what belongs to the individual, not the actual backstory/reality of the characters the author created. What each individual reader comes away with after reading the stories belongs solely to that individual, but the fact remains that J.K. owns every consonant and vowel of the final drafts and everything she wrote before and will write after it and it is up to her how she chose to create it, whether we like it or not.

I think someone else mentioned what happened with Tolkien. I don't remember in which book he did a lot of explaining of interpretations of his Lord of the Rings trilogy, but one thing I remember him clearing up was that the present-day issues going on in his day (the war, etc.) were not the influence on his plotting, as so many readers/experts insisted. Anyway, J.K. has the right to say whatever she wants about her work, and again, whether or not we accept what the truth is, is our own prerogative.
: Donna



PEGSmom wrote:

damIzfrodogay2 wrote:
MollyWobbles said:

"Telling me after the fact that Dumbledore is gay is like deciding later to add dimples to the Mona Lisa. It's too late, the portrait is complete-it is what it is."

Got to agree with yuh. In addition to DD bein gay he'd of almost certainly been an Obama supporter and a Colt's fan.

Ye-haw!


I have to agree, she is messing with my (fantasy) world, changing my friends. She "finished" the story now leave it be!

BTW, Welcome damiIzfrodogay2! Love the name :smileyhappy:




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ABI
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Re: Dumbledore gay???


Everyman wrote:

halfscripts wrote:
...He is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, therefore if Rowling doesn't come out and say "oh ps Harry and Dumbledore were totally hitting it yall" it means it never happened. Case closed.

You and I obviously have very different ways of reading books. So if Rowling doesn't say that Harry breathed, he didn't; if Rowling doesn't say that he ate breakfast, he didn't. I consider that a very limited way of reading a book, but if it's your way, fine.

Of course, the literal reality is that, since they are all fictional characters, they didn't do ANYTHING AT ALL. Nothing ever happened, they never did a thing, and why are we even bothering to read these books?

Message Edited by Everyman on 11-07-2007 11:03 PM


I see what your saying Everyman. But the problem is, you are elaborating for the sake of er...insult. I think we can assume that Harry ate breakfast one morning even if she didn't write it, however, huge matters such as DD molesting a child.. You cannot think she would have neglected writing in such a fact?!

Besides, even if ti WAS supposed to be "between the lines," IT WASN'T.

I would seriously suggest rereading the books, if only to analyze DD's character. For certainly, there is NOTHING in them to suggest this.

I agree with Shadow. (to who i might add, i have seen so many compliments and "attention" given to you on this thread you cannot possibly complain) :smileyhappy:
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Re: Dumbledore gay???

**tiptoes to the broomshed….
Oh kreacher…. Come heah, im have ze present for you….

**peeps in the darkness of the broomshed..

AAACCK!! Hagrid, what are you doing there??!!
o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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mrsronaldweasley
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

Sheesh!

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o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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phrodo41
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

It really depresses me that pedophilia is even remotely an issue here. Don't you guys know there are straight pedophiles as well?
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agnijay
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Re: Dumbledore gay???

I wonder how gay people reacted to this news. ANyone have any friends who can tell us?
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If we crawl/ Till we can walk again/ Then we'll run/ Until we're strong enough to jump/ Then we'll fly/ Until there is no end.
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Kreacherteacher
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Re: Dumbledore gay???

LOL! I am so with tigerlilly on this one halfscripts. Classic stuff, and I love it when people type in caps at just the right moment.

I believe everyman is simply saying this crap because he belongs to some OTHER HP board, and he is jealous of our camaraderie. Either that or it's that person who wrote Lord Emberstone's Quest and is still angry with some of you all for starchin' their panties too much.

Oh and mrsronald I am here. What did you need dear?



halfscripts wrote:


Everyman wrote:


ShadowCougar wrote:
He did not remain at Hogwarts to molest children as you seem to think, but to protect them from those that might do them harm.

That's the way he spins it, of course. And who knows, it may be true; there are priests with the best of intentions to protect those they serve as well as the ones with darkness hidden under their robes of authority and power.

You and I will just have to accept that we see D's relationship with the students differently.





Here's the thing: I can tell you with absolute certainty that Dumbledore was not a sexual predator, he never abused any of the children in his care, and his sexuality was absolutely not relevant to any of the relationships he had with Harry or any other male student. Want to know why? Because DUMBLEDORE ISN'T A REAL PERSON. He is a FICTIONAL CHARACTER, therefore if Rowling doesn't come out and say "oh ps Harry and Dumbledore were totally hitting it yall" it means it never happened. Case closed. Stop trying to destroy Dumbledore's character with all these what ifs and disciminatory statements that make absolutely NO sense and are actually quite offending in their extreme ignorance... because guess what, no matter what your close minded beliefs may be, they don't apply here because it's a BOOK, it's NOT real life, and unless one of those stupid theories are in the book, or said outloud by Rowling, IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Get over it.


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Kreacherteacher
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

I cannot take credit. You may use the word to yer heart's desire.



HPSeeker wrote:
Flargin'? Never heard that one, but I like it! Where's it from or is it an original?!
: Donna



Kreacherteacher wrote:
How flargin' cool is that?!





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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

Unfortunately, yes I do.. And just as unfortunately they are more numerous then homosexual pedophiles, it is just not as reported... Doesn't always go reported to the authorities, and then the Media doesn't always make a circus out of it...

As a side note, I have decided that if Everyman decides to comment again I will ignore it, as he is just a troll.
(the web kind, not the kind in the girls bathroom)



phrodo41 wrote:
It really depresses me that pedophilia is even remotely an issue here. Don't you guys know there are straight pedophiles as well?


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agnijay
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"



ShadowCougar wrote:
Unfortunately, yes I do.. And just as unfortunately they are more numerous then homosexual pedophiles, it is just not as reported... Doesn't always go reported to the authorities, and then the Media doesn't always make a circus out of it...

As a side note, I have decided that if Everyman decides to comment again I will ignore it, as he is just a troll.
(the web kind, not the kind in the girls bathroom)



phrodo41 wrote:
It really depresses me that pedophilia is even remotely an issue here. Don't you guys know there are straight pedophiles as well?





I can actually see that...though anyone suggesting Dumbledore has this problem has, to put it kindly, lost their marbles.
☼☺♥ Jaya ♥☺☼

If we crawl/ Till we can walk again/ Then we'll run/ Until we're strong enough to jump/ Then we'll fly/ Until there is no end.
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HPSeeker
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

Molly, there may be people who feel the characters belong to the public once the books have been published, just as you do. I'm just not one of them. Even if every person on the planet believed that published books are their property and not the author's, I still don't feel that way. I suppose people think it's a matter of opinion, and it's certainly everyone's right to have feelings, pro or con, but I don't believe that an author's creation belongs to or should be dictated by the readers, whether it's before or after publication. Certainly to me, it's no different than when people wrote to J.K. during the years of her writing the series, insisting she change the way she was writing it, in reference to characters and subject matter. She wrote her story and wrote it as she always intended (good for her) and her creation is what it is, from the moment of conception on through. It's also her prerogative if she were to decide to completely revise the entire series in the future and include much more backstory about many characters within the novels themselves. As I said: we already know she'll be putting out an encyclopedia, of sorts, because there was a great outcry (begging!) from millions of fans for her to do so. Whether or not these fans can accept what she reveals is not her problem.
: Donna



Mollywobbles wrote:
There are an equal number of people who think that the characters belong to the public once the books have been published. You might want to check out a couple of the links to various newspaper articles Connie posted previously on this thread.



HPSeeker wrote:
I understand the feelings behind this, because I would've preferred this not having been true (DD being gay), but the fact is that the Harry Potter fandom, in general, has been begging for every single detail and aching for all the backstory not revealed in her books. Now, if we don't LIKE what that is, that is our own business/problem. Anyone who doesn't want to know, simply shouldn't buy her "encyclopedia" when it comes out.

I don't agree that J.K. is messing with our characters; they are her characters and it is her story. How each individual reacts to and feels about those characters is what belongs to the individual, not the actual backstory/reality of the characters the author created. What each individual reader comes away with after reading the stories belongs solely to that individual, but the fact remains that J.K. owns every consonant and vowel of the final drafts and everything she wrote before and will write after it and it is up to her how she chose to create it, whether we like it or not.

I think someone else mentioned what happened with Tolkien. I don't remember in which book he did a lot of explaining of interpretations of his Lord of the Rings trilogy, but one thing I remember him clearing up was that the present-day issues going on in his day (the war, etc.) were not the influence on his plotting, as so many readers/experts insisted. Anyway, J.K. has the right to say whatever she wants about her work, and again, whether or not we accept what the truth is, is our own prerogative.
: Donna



PEGSmom wrote:

damIzfrodogay2 wrote:
MollyWobbles said:

"Telling me after the fact that Dumbledore is gay is like deciding later to add dimples to the Mona Lisa. It's too late, the portrait is complete-it is what it is."

Got to agree with yuh. In addition to DD bein gay he'd of almost certainly been an Obama supporter and a Colt's fan.

Ye-haw!


I have to agree, she is messing with my (fantasy) world, changing my friends. She "finished" the story now leave it be!

BTW, Welcome damiIzfrodogay2! Love the name :smileyhappy:






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HPSeeker
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Re: JKR--Storyteller and Novelist, and the "Canon"

Of course there are straight pedophiles, but unfortunately, some people are extremely ignorant and narrowminded and tend to generalize to the extreme. I think it's all pathetic.
: Donna



phrodo41 wrote:
It really depresses me that pedophilia is even remotely an issue here. Don't you guys know there are straight pedophiles as well?


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HPSeeker
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Re: Dumbledore gay???

I have quite a few gay friends, but I honestly don't want to open up this can of worms with them because I might ultimately word something improperly and end up insulting or offending. It's not an issue I think much about anymore except within this discussion.
: Donna



agnijay wrote:
I wonder how gay people reacted to this news. ANyone have any friends who can tell us?