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dulcevania1979
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Ginny's Genealogy

I don't know how stupid this is going to sound or if it's already been talked to death and I missed the boat, but I had a thought on Ginny Weasley's genealogy. In the previous books we have been given a few glimpses of the Weasley family tree, however although not really mentioned in the books themselves, JK Rowling has mentioned that Ginny is the first female born in the Weasley family for "several generations." Since we know that Ginny is the seventh child in the family, my question is: Is it possible that Ginny Weasley is possibly the seventh daughter of the seventh daughter, a slight twist on the seventh son of a seventh son. The idea being that the seventh son of the seventh son is a rather powerful man and capable of things that others are not; including healing, an extreme amount of luck, even premonitions or omnipotence, among other things. It may not have any bearing on the plot line, but this idea may give some insight into her character. Ginny was singled out by Prof. Slughorn as one of his "favorites" simply because she showed an aptitude for bat-bogey hexes. If you take the idealogy or mythology of the seventh son of the seventh son loosely since she is a girl, could this not be a real possibility? We don't know if Mrs. Weasly had six other siblings or if we can say that this idea applies simply because Ginny is the seventh offspring in the seventh generation of female witches/wizards.
I guess I'm just wondering if the idea has any merit or I've just completely read way too much into it.
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Psychee
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy



dulcevania1979 wrote:
I don't know how stupid this is going to sound or if it's already been talked to death and I missed the boat, but I had a thought on Ginny Weasley's genealogy. In the previous books we have been given a few glimpses of the Weasley family tree, however although not really mentioned in the books themselves, JK Rowling has mentioned that Ginny is the first female born in the Weasley family for "several generations." Since we know that Ginny is the seventh child in the family, my question is: Is it possible that Ginny Weasley is possibly the seventh daughter of the seventh daughter, a slight twist on the seventh son of a seventh son. The idea being that the seventh son of the seventh son is a rather powerful man and capable of things that others are not; including healing, an extreme amount of luck, even premonitions or omnipotence, among other things. It may not have any bearing on the plot line, but this idea may give some insight into her character. Ginny was singled out by Prof. Slughorn as one of his "favorites" simply because she showed an aptitude for bat-bogey hexes. If you take the idealogy or mythology of the seventh son of the seventh son loosely since she is a girl, could this not be a real possibility? We don't know if Mrs. Weasly had six other siblings or if we can say that this idea applies simply because Ginny is the seventh offspring in the seventh generation of female witches/wizards.
I guess I'm just wondering if the idea has any merit or I've just completely read way too much into it.





Your idea definitely has merit. JKR said herself that "the fact that Ginny is the first girl to be born into the Weasley family in generations is meant to indicate that Ginny will be a very gifted witch."
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Psychee
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

This was JKR's exact quote:

JKR: The backstory with Ginny was, she was the first girl to arrive in the Weasley family in generations, but there's that old tradition of the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter and a seventh son of a seventh son, so that's why she's the seventh, because she is a gifted witch. I think you get hints of that, because she does some pretty impressive stuff here and there, and you'll see that again.


Source: http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-3.htm
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PattyBNUChick
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

[ Edited ]
She says 'Arrive', I still wonder if she's adopted along with Fred and George from another related family. For those new people here is my theory:


I find it odd that Kreacher is bowing to only 3 people in OOTP, Sirius and the Weasley twins.

Also, Kreacher sees George and then says about Fred "and there's its twin, unnatural little beasts they are".
Does Kreacher say that because they're twins and that's considered unnatural (not the norm)? Or is there some other reason?

And on the next page (page 109 OOTP), Fred says to Hermione: "Don't kid yourself, Hermione, he knows exactly what he's saying" said Fred, eyeing Kreacher with great dislike. You don't usually see this intense of a reaction from either of the twins. Why do they dislike Kreacher so much? I agree, Kreacher is unlikable, but does he know something about the twins that we don't yet see?

When Ron gets his prefect badge (OOTP page 163) Molly says "I don't believe it! I don't believe it! Oh, Ron, how wonderful! A prefect! That's everyone in the family!"

"What are Fred and I, next-door neighbors?" said George indignantly..."

I wonder. Are Fred and George actually Molly and Arthur's natural sons?

On OOTP page 170, Tonks changes her hair to be long and red and it says: "Her hair was tomato-red and waist length today; she looked like Ginny's older sister'. So obviously cousins can look like each other - that happens in real life with people I know. I used to wonder if Ron was the 7th son of a 7th son and a real seer (I think he is a seer, but he's the 7th son). Arthur is one of 3 boys, so Ron can't be the 7th son of the 7th son. Anyway, maybe there isn’t a missing son, making Ron the 7th, maybe Ron is actually only the 4th son and Fred and George aren’t actually blood brothers? Anyway just wonder if Fred and George aren't actually Molly's sons. If maybe they are one of her brother's sons that she took because her brothers were both killed by Voldemort. Although, Ginny is thin like Mr Weasley, perhaps she is the daughter of Arthur's brothers.

Mr. Weasley in H.B.P. says he raised Fred and George, but didn’t say "I am their father".



Psychee wrote:
This was JKR's exact quote:

JKR: The backstory with Ginny was, she was the first girl to arrive in the Weasley family in generations, but there's that old tradition of the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter and a seventh son of a seventh son, so that's why she's the seventh, because she is a gifted witch. I think you get hints of that, because she does some pretty impressive stuff here and there, and you'll see that again.


Source: http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-3.htm



Message Edited by PattyBNUChick on 06-14-2007 06:32 AM
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dulcevania1979
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy



Psychee wrote:
This was JKR's exact quote:

JKR: The backstory with Ginny was, she was the first girl to arrive in the Weasley family in generations, but there's that old tradition of the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter and a seventh son of a seventh son, so that's why she's the seventh, because she is a gifted witch. I think you get hints of that, because she does some pretty impressive stuff here and there, and you'll see that again.


Source: http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/2005/0705-tlc_mugglenet-anelli-3.htm


Thank you for the link to the quote. It's been awhile since I've read that interview and I didn't remember that part. I probably subconsciously remembered it and thought it was a brand new idea. How silly of me!
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Psychee
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

Happens to all of us! :smileyhappy:
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Psychee
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

Patty, I don't think Ginny could be a daughter of one of Molly's brothers, otherwise, JKR wouldn't say that she was the first daughter born to the Weasley family in many generations. She would have not been born a Weasley, but a Prewitt, right?

You'll need to consider Arthur's brothers for your theory...
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PattyBNUChick
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

You're right they could be Arthur's brother's children, I edited my post accordingly, thanks :smileyhappy: The thing is, Rowling didnt say she was born to the Weasley family, she said 'Arrived'.



Psychee wrote:
Patty, I don't think Ginny could be a daughter of one of Molly's brothers, otherwise, JKR wouldn't say that she was the first daughter born to the Weasley family in many generations. She would have not been born a Weasley, but a Prewitt, right?

You'll need to consider Arthur's brothers for your theory...


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Psychee
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

Yes, you're right. I put two quotes up above, and the first one said "born" but it was an Accio! Quote restatement of the actual JKR words -- you know, what they put on the summary page..? The seccond quote came directly from the interview, and that one said "arrived".
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gniff
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Gred and Forge


PattyBNUChick wrote:

I find it odd that Kreacher is bowing to only 3 people in OOTP, Sirius and the Weasley twins.

Also, Kreacher sees George and then says about Fred "and there's its twin, unnatural little beasts they are".
Does Kreacher say that because they're twins and that's considered unnatural (not the norm)? Or is there some other reason?

And on the next page (page 109 OOTP), Fred says to Hermione: "Don't kid yourself, Hermione, he knows exactly what he's saying" said Fred, eyeing Kreacher with great dislike. You don't usually see this intense of a reaction from either of the twins. Why do they dislike Kreacher so much? I agree, Kreacher is unlikable, but does he know something about the twins that we don't yet see?

When Ron gets his prefect badge (OOTP page 163) Molly says "I don't believe it! I don't believe it! Oh, Ron, how wonderful! A prefect! That's everyone in the family!"

"What are Fred and I, next-door neighbors?" said George indignantly..."

I wonder. Are Fred and George actually Molly and Arthur's natural sons?


There are other clues pointing in that direction, including Honestly woman, you call yourself our mother? and Wish I had three Wizard brothers (Harry)/Five (Ron) from The Journey from Platform Nine and Three Quarters. Originally I thought that was where the ADOPTEE in the OWL grades pointed, but I no longer think so. My guess was that they were actually children of Gideon or Fabian.

It's still possible. Between Fred and George, the baby dolphins in The Boy Who Lived, and Kreacher's reaction, something is up with twins.
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PattyBNUChick
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Re: Gred and Forge

Ah, forgot about those quotes. thanks for the additional ammo : )



gniff wrote:

PattyBNUChick wrote:

I find it odd that Kreacher is bowing to only 3 people in OOTP, Sirius and the Weasley twins.

Also, Kreacher sees George and then says about Fred "and there's its twin, unnatural little beasts they are".
Does Kreacher say that because they're twins and that's considered unnatural (not the norm)? Or is there some other reason?

And on the next page (page 109 OOTP), Fred says to Hermione: "Don't kid yourself, Hermione, he knows exactly what he's saying" said Fred, eyeing Kreacher with great dislike. You don't usually see this intense of a reaction from either of the twins. Why do they dislike Kreacher so much? I agree, Kreacher is unlikable, but does he know something about the twins that we don't yet see?

When Ron gets his prefect badge (OOTP page 163) Molly says "I don't believe it! I don't believe it! Oh, Ron, how wonderful! A prefect! That's everyone in the family!"

"What are Fred and I, next-door neighbors?" said George indignantly..."

I wonder. Are Fred and George actually Molly and Arthur's natural sons?


There are other clues pointing in that direction, including Honestly woman, you call yourself our mother? and Wish I had three Wizard brothers (Harry)/Five (Ron) from The Journey from Platform Nine and Three Quarters. Originally I thought that was where the ADOPTEE in the OWL grades pointed, but I no longer think so. My guess was that they were actually children of Gideon or Fabian.

It's still possible. Between Fred and George, the baby dolphins in The Boy Who Lived, and Kreacher's reaction, something is up with twins.


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bisdak
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Re: Gred and Forge

Wow, I never really thought of George & Fred as not Molly & Arthur's sons. But I think now that that is highly probable. And that "You're talking to the man who raised Fred & George" quote really does seem to point to that. Well spotted!!

It would be interesting to see what they would do. I know in OOP they wanted to join the order. Imagine all the neat little gadgets they could create and use! Also wondering if there is something to their love of wearing dragon hide ... it seems like whenever we have seen them since they left hogwarts (maybe except at their store?) they seemed to be wearing dragon hide jackets or boots. We do have a dragon on the deluxe cover after all.
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gniff
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Re: Gred and Forge


PattyBNUChick wrote:
Ah, forgot about those quotes. thanks for the additional ammo : )


If you want to go down that road, here's something else. Over in Pity for Dudley and Draco I pulled in a quote from HMS Pinafore. The dilemma in that story is resolved by the revelation that Captain Cocoran and Ralph (Rafe) Rackstraw were switched as infants. Little Buttercup: How bitter is my cup! However could I do it?/I mixed those children up/And not a creature knew it.//Chorus: However could you do it? Someday no doubt you'll rue it/Although no creature knew it/So many years ago. Gideon, Fabian and Molly were named Prewett after the friend to whom JKR dedicated Stone; Prewett matches the rhyme of Buttercup's lament.
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chojyn
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Re: Gred and Forge

[ Edited ]

gniff wrote:
Originally I thought that was where the ADOPTEE in the OWL grades pointed, but I no longer think so. My guess was that they were actually children of Gideon or Fabian.

It's still possible. Between Fred and George, the baby dolphins in The Boy Who Lived, and Kreacher's reaction, something is up with twins.




Could you tell me what you mean by "ADOPTEE" and "the baby dolphins"? Where do those references come from?

Message Edited by chojyn on 06-14-2007 09:18 AM
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gniff
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Re: Gred and Forge

[ Edited ]
It's a very long post. Here are the relevant points:

The OWL grades, which we learn mostly from Gred and Forge, when placed in theater-seat order (A-Z, AA-ZZ) spell out ADOPTEe. It's the only common English word that can be formed from these letters. (OWL itself is an acronym.)

The baby dolphins comes from the description of Hagrid in Stone 1: His feet in their leather boots looked like baby dolphins. I believe this odd phrase to be a link to Alexandre Dumas's The Man in the Iron Mask, in which one twin was hidden so that the other might take the throne. The Dumas link is strong, since this Dumas had a son, also Alexandre Dumas, also a writer, in the fashion of Barty Crouch and Barty Crouch. Why dolphins? The dolpin was the symbol of the Heir Apparent to the French throne, and the infant heir was the enfant dauphin (or something close; I have no French).

Notice that Dudley is said to have reached the size and weight of a young killer whale in Goblet: The Invitation. Killer whales are closely related to dolphins.

(I failed to mention that the ADOPTEe part was discovered by someone else over on the boards frequented by the TPT authors; my apologies to all.)

Message Edited by gniff on 06-14-2007 09:41 AM
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speebek
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

[ Edited ]
One problem with Ginny as a character is that she's really somewhat underdeveloped. Beyond the bat-bogey hex (really overused) and her hero-worship of Harry ("I just knew you'd have to be off hunting Voldemort" or words to that effect) she's a bit of a mystery. This means she's not really a great romantic match for the hero of the story (especially if the author is an Austen fan - the romantic leads in those books ar more or less required to have at least a dozen deep conversations), but she works fine if her role is to resolve some mystery at the end of the series.

Unfortunately, if that's the case, Rowling would be scrambling to pull those elements together. Also, since most everyone in the Wizarding World knows each other and the families, such child switches would be difficult to pull off logistically. Finally, if the switches are just within the larger Weasley family, what's the point of them, dramatically? There would need to be one and quite frankly, it would have to be a big part of the story.

I have heard this theory before. One detail missing here is the bodies that Mrs. Weasley sees the Boggart turn into in Book 5. Who's missing from that list and why?

Message Edited by speebek on 06-14-2007 09:41 AM
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PattyBNUChick
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Re: Ginny's Genealogy

Harry may not have seen all the people that Mrs Weasley went through with the boggart though. He saw:Ron, Bill, Mr Weasley, twins, Percy, Harry. There is no charlie or Ginny.




speebek wrote:
One problem with Ginny as a character is that she's really somewhat underdeveloped. Beyond the bat-bogey hex (really overused) and her hero-worship of Harry ("I just knew you'd have to be off hunting Voldemort" or words to that effect) she's a bit of a mystery. This means she's not really a great romantic match for the hero of the story (especially if the author is an Austen fan - the romantic leads in those books ar more or less required to have at least a dozen deep conversations), but she works fine if her role is to resolve some mystery at the end of the series.

Unfortunately, if that's the case, Rowling would be scrambling to pull those elements together. Also, since most everyone in the Wizarding World knows each other and the families, such child switches would be difficult to pull off logistically. Finally, if the switches are just within the larger Weasley family, what's the point of them, dramatically? There would need to be one and quite frankly, it would have to be a big part of the story.

I have heard this theory before. One detail missing here is the bodies that Mrs. Weasley sees the Boggart turn into in Book 5. Who's missing from that list and why?

Message Edited by speebek on 06-14-2007 09:41 AM


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PattyBNUChick
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Re: Gred and Forge

[ Edited ]


Message Edited by PattyBNUChick on 06-14-2007 09:13 AM
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chojyn
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Re: Gred and Forge

Thanks! I've been reading a bunch of these threads for a while now, and only just registered today. I guess I'll have to check out some of the other relevant threads. Thanks again.
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kpeterson32
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Re: Gred and Forge

Fred and George have red hair because Ron does; in other words, I created Ron as a character first, then invented his brothers and sister.
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=72

I don't know...that sounds pretty specific to me.

And the other quote that was already posted about Ginny "arriving" in the Weasley family...well, keep reading and Jo comments that this is why Ginny is 'seventh'. She's not dodging or being coy. Her use of the word 'arrive' is not necessarily some hidden clue. You don't have to say the word 'born' to mean that someone was 'born' into their family.
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