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PLS
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PLS
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎04-02-2009

Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

When the Harry Potter books came out I decided to form no immediate opinion about them. As time went on I heard from people who were on both sides of the Christian camp. Some, truly believed that Harry Potter was a portal to the demonic and others fed them to their kids, if only for the fact that they were actually reading something.

Then I got a call from a teenage who needed prayer. She was a bright. outgoing girl who was being attacked by demons. She was afraid to go to sleep at night. While in bed she felt like she was being suffocated. After some discussion and prayer I concluded that she should get rid of the Harry Potter books and repent for her involvement. She was reluctant to get rid of the books until it got so bad that one night she threw them in the trash at which time a huge weight came off of her and she knew that a demon was leaving her body.  I didn't know about this until a couple of months later and I asked her if I could share her story where needed. She emphatically said "yes"!.  I got to this particular Barnes and Noble site by accident (of the Holy Spirit). I thought it was my responsibility to share this with anyone who is honestly seeking.

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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


PLS wrote:

When the Harry Potter books came out I decided to form no immediate opinion about them. As time went on I heard from people who were on both sides of the Christian camp. Some, truly believed that Harry Potter was a portal to the demonic and others fed them to their kids, if only for the fact that they were actually reading something.

Then I got a call from a teenage who needed prayer. She was a bright. outgoing girl who was being attacked by demons. She was afraid to go to sleep at night. While in bed she felt like she was being suffocated. After some discussion and prayer I concluded that she should get rid of the Harry Potter books and repent for her involvement. She was reluctant to get rid of the books until it got so bad that one night she threw them in the trash at which time a huge weight came off of her and she knew that a demon was leaving her body.  I didn't know about this until a couple of months later and I asked her if I could share her story where needed. She emphatically said "yes"!.  I got to this particular Barnes and Noble site by accident (of the Holy Spirit). I thought it was my responsibility to share this with anyone who is honestly seeking.


 

Thank you for your post, PLS.  Who knows where people's demons lurk or why.  I hope the young girl is doing better. 
~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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Literary_AMP
Posts: 10
Registered: ‎03-25-2009

Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

I think that this thread raises important questions... that I'm not afraid to get my hand dirty with. First of all, I am a practicing Catholic (I only mention this so you will understand my religious POV), I believe that religion enriches lives, and that no matter which faith you are your life can only be better from it. I also believe that their is a constant battle between good and evil on this earth, and that a great deal of it comes from choice. We are always making choices about what is or is not morally right for us. If this girl felt better after dumping Harry and friends, than perhaps that is a part of what was holding evil to her. I find it difficult to believe, however, that a book so steeped in Christian mythology would cause this young girl harm. It could have been that she was so attached to the books that this was the source of harm.
"I'm just trying to matter." -June Carter Cash

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."-John Lennon
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Psychee
Posts: 7,307
Registered: ‎04-17-2007

Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

What a sad tale... I feel for the girl you described.  And yet, when one thinks about the moral lessons embedded in the Harry Potter books, such as

 

-- It is the choices you make which determines who you are...

-- When you must make a difficult choice, choose to do the right thing, not the easy thing...

-- Be careful what you do to your soul while you are living, as it will determine what happens to you in the Afterlife...

-- There is nothing more important than an intact soul...

-- Love, especially the love of a mother for her child, is the most potent magic of all...

-- Winning means nothing if you have not played fairly...

-- With power comes the responsibility to protect those who are less fortunate...

 

....it seems to me that these books would be a very unpalatable environment for any demon to be lurking in!

 

It seems more likely to me that the poor girl had been told by someone that the books were evil (Some people believe they are evil just because they contain the word "witch" in them) and she felt so guilty about reading them and enjoying them that some kind of "compromise of her spirit" took place.   Getting rid of the books solved her internal conflict and afforded her peace.

 

PLS, I am happy that you were able to help her.  I think you should know, though, that the magic in the books does not involve devil worship nor does it work by enlisting the help of some other-worldly beings.  The magical people in the books are just born with special powers, similar to what you find in the Superman or X-Men stories, but they use wands to focus their magical energies.  They even celebrate Christmas.  It is a tale of Good versus Evil, and Good ultimately wins because Harry and his friends are not only capable of feeling love, but also courageously risk their own safety for the sake of their loved ones. 

 

In my opinion, they are truly very wholesome books.  So wholesome, in fact, that I do believe they would make a demon retch!

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Psychee
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

This topic raises an interesting question -- how comfortable are folks with using the word "occult" with the Harry Potter series?

 

I ask because when I hear that word, I think of things of a supernatural nature that are dark, scary, hidden and/or forbidden, playing with forces that could hurt you, and things like that.  More like the kinds of things that one would find in the "restricted section" of the Hogwarts library, as opposed to the kind of magic learned in the Hogwarts classrooms.

 

Do we classify Superman as an occult figure?  Do we classify the X-Men as occult stories?  What about "Cinderella"'s  fairy godmother?  Or the story of Sleeping Beauty?  And if anything of a supernatural nature is considered occult, do we then classify miracles and angels and prayer as occult as well?

 

I'm curious what others think about this.  Words are a whole lot more than just their definitions, don't you think?  The associations we make to them when we hear them carries a great deal of their meaning as well.

 

 

Distinguished Bibliophile
TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
Registered: ‎02-12-2008

Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

Please christians don't be offended.

But as a pagan  watching you guys use the word occult to be synonymous with demonic is a bit insulting. Occult doesn't mean darkness, forbidden, or scary. It just means supernatural. Are the HP books supernatural, yes, but so is Pinocchio. Don't often hear people calling that demonic.

 

(shrug) Honestly the HP books are highly nonreligious in nature. The closest they come is using the word christmas for the winter holidays.

 

 

Frequent Contributor
blinkgirl89
Posts: 645
Registered: ‎08-23-2007
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


Psychee wrote:

What a sad tale... I feel for the girl you described.  And yet, when one thinks about the moral lessons embedded in the Harry Potter books, such as

 

-- It is the choices you make which determines who you are...

-- When you must make a difficult choice, choose to do the right thing, not the easy thing...

-- Be careful what you do to your soul while you are living, as it will determine what happens to you in the Afterlife...

-- There is nothing more important than an intact soul...

-- Love, especially the love of a mother for her child, is the most potent magic of all...

-- Winning means nothing if you have not played fairly...

-- With power comes the responsibility to protect those who are less fortunate...

 

....it seems to me that these books would be a very unpalatable environment for any demon to be lurking in!

 

It seems more likely to me that the poor girl had been told by someone that the books were evil (Some people believe they are evil just because they contain the word "witch" in them) and she felt so guilty about reading them and enjoying them that some kind of "compromise of her spirit" took place.   Getting rid of the books solved her internal conflict and afforded her peace.

 

PLS, I am happy that you were able to help her.  I think you should know, though, that the magic in the books does not involve devil worship nor does it work by enlisting the help of some other-worldly beings.  The magical people in the books are just born with special powers, similar to what you find in the Superman or X-Men stories, but they use wands to focus their magical energies.  They even celebrate Christmas.  It is a tale of Good versus Evil, and Good ultimately wins because Harry and his friends are not only capable of feeling love, but also courageously risk their own safety for the sake of their loved ones. 

 

In my opinion, they are truly very wholesome books.  So wholesome, in fact, that I do believe they would make a demon retch!


 

well say, psychee. i couldn't have said it better myself. =)

and sorry PLS but no one in this site is going to feel that way about the harry potter books. we are all here because we love the HP books. because like psychee, there really is a lot of good in them.

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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


TiggerBear wrote:

Please christians don't be offended.

But as a pagan  watching you guys use the word occult to be synonymous with demonic is a bit insulting. Occult doesn't mean darkness, forbidden, or scary. It just means supernatural. Are the HP books supernatural, yes, but so is Pinocchio. Don't often hear people calling that demonic.

 

(shrug) Honestly the HP books are highly nonreligious in nature. The closest they come is using the word christmas for the winter holidays.

 

 


 

I wouldn't agree that they're "nonreligious," since even JKR admitted that there is a heavy Christian story going on (one person dying as a sacrifice to save all; redemption, etc.).  However, I don't think they *need* to be read that way or that she even wanted them read that way, in particular.  They're certainly broad enough that I wouldn't even go so far as to call them "Christian" books.  The fact that nonbelievers and people of different religious backgrounds see different things in the books is a testament to the power of the story and the way JKR told it.  
~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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torgby
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

I found this thread thanks to the BN twitter feed.

 

Sometimes, I like to pretend that living in the modern world means I don't have to worry about encountering anybody who actually believes in the occult, demonic possession, voodoo, or whatever other irrational, medeival nonsense. Then I see people who are completely seriously suggesting that books be banned or thrown out or burned because they are "a portal to the demonic," and my dreams are shattered.

 

Since I know perfectly well that it is pointless to argue these things with the kinds of people who believe in evil spirits and juju and so forth, let's just skip to the argument about whether or not these books will give kids the "wrong" ideas.

 

The following puts it pretty well:


John Monk, an editorial writer wrote:
Though set mostly in a wizard's world, the Potter books promote -- through their characters -- friendship, love, bravery, self-reliance, the importance of family and tolerance toward those different from us. They depict the quest for knowledge, wisdom and right action -- the universal journey every human takes. The books condemn bullies, falsity, rudeness, greed and Nazi-like tendencies to denigrate and hurt those who aren't like us.
[...]

Some claim the Potter books lure children into witchcraft.

 

Poppycock. You might as well say Gone With The Wind teaches young readers to be slave owners, or Treasure Island entices children to be pirates, or Peter Pan urges children to run away from home.

 

If we started to ban books dealing with the supernatural, we'd be tossing out some pretty good stuff.

 

To begin with, we'd have to get rid of at least four works by Shakespeare: Hamlet (ghost), Macbeth (witches), The Tempest (a spirit) and A Midsummer Night's Dream (fairies).

 

We'd also have to trash A Christmas Carol by Dickens. Imagine that: banning the most beloved of books because it has four ghosts as main characters

 

It's understandable why some are upset at Harry Potter books. Many people just don't understand that writers use the supernatural as a prop. That's different from luring kids to the occult.


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katknit
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

An actual demon?
No two persons ever read the same book. [Edmund Wilson]
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ConnieAnnKirk
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


torgby wrote:

I found this thread thanks to the BN twitter feed.

 

Sometimes, I like to pretend that living in the modern world means I don't have to worry about encountering anybody who actually believes in the occult, demonic possession, voodoo, or whatever other irrational, medeival nonsense. Then I see people who are completely seriously suggesting that books be banned or thrown out or burned because they are "a portal to the demonic," and my dreams are shattered.

 

Since I know perfectly well that it is pointless to argue these things with the kinds of people who believe in evil spirits and juju and so forth, let's just skip to the argument about whether or not these books will give kids the "wrong" ideas.

 

 


Welcome, torgby!  Thanks for your post. 

 

You should know that this particular generation of the Harry Potter Book Club has been here since 2006, and we've gone over this topic many times.  (There were clubs for other editions of the books, as well, but this one that started in anticipation of Book 7 has been going for nearly 3 years now). 

 

To my mind, now that the series is all out and the story all told, a lot of the discussion about evil and Harry Potter has died down considerably from what used to be out there.  We still hear from concerned readers occasionally, though, such as the person who began this thread.   

 

 

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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Kreacherteacher
Posts: 1,234
Registered: ‎07-24-2007
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

Hah! I am only offended because you didn't capitalize the word "Christian", but maybe that's because I teach Language Arts. :-)
For my two cents, I agree completely with Psychee. I think there is a lot to say about the power of suggestion. Getting rid of the books satisfied a psychological need of hers.
I hear many people say that you shouldn't mess with the world involving spirits especially with tools like tarot cards, ouija boards, etc. I do not perhaps because I have been taught this throughout my life. It kind of freaks me out even at my age. So I can see how it could mess with the mind of someone much younger and much less capable of using reason.
TiggerBear wrote:

Please christians don't be offended.

But as a pagan  watching you guys use the word occult to be synonymous with demonic is a bit insulting. Occult doesn't mean darkness, forbidden, or scary. It just means supernatural. Are the HP books supernatural, yes, but so is Pinocchio. Don't often hear people calling that demonic.

 

(shrug) Honestly the HP books are highly nonreligious in nature. The closest they come is using the word christmas for the winter holidays.

 

 


 

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TiggerBear
Posts: 9,489
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


Kreacherteacher wrote:
Hah! I am only offended because you didn't capitalize the word "Christian", but maybe that's because I teach Language Arts. :-)
For my two cents, I agree completely with Psychee. I think there is a lot to say about the power of suggestion. Getting rid of the books satisfied a psychological need of hers.
I hear many people say that you shouldn't mess with the world involving spirits especially with tools like tarot cards, ouija boards, etc. I do not perhaps because I have been taught this throughout my life. It kind of freaks me out even at my age. So I can see how it could mess with the mind of someone much younger and much less capable of using reason.
TiggerBear wrote:

Please christians don't be offended.

But as a pagan  watching you guys use the word occult to be synonymous with demonic is a bit insulting. Occult doesn't mean darkness, forbidden, or scary. It just means supernatural. Are the HP books supernatural, yes, but so is Pinocchio. Don't often hear people calling that demonic.

 

(shrug) Honestly the HP books are highly nonreligious in nature. The closest they come is using the word christmas for the winter holidays.

 

 


 


(shaking head) Grammar snob!

It more of a statement really. Few if any spell checkers pop when you don't capitalize; paganism, wicca, voodoo, buddhism, shinto, tao, hinduism, judaism, muslim, ect.. Why SHOULD christainity be ANY different? I treat them all equally and refuse to capitalize any, grammar can go fly a kite.

 

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Kreacherteacher
Posts: 1,234
Registered: ‎07-24-2007
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

Well if you are going to personify grammar by saying it can fly a kite, then you should capitalize it as well. :-p
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TiggerBear
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


Kreacherteacher wrote:
Well if you are going to personify grammar by saying it can fly a kite, then you should capitalize it as well. :-p

Just trying to keep it clean actually.

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Mollywobbles
Posts: 2,931
Registered: ‎06-15-2007
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

Hi Kreacherteacher, welcome back.  I'm glad you decided to spend some of your free time with us.  That said, phooey, or should it be Phooey?

 

It's unfortunate this young person had a bad experience,  it's  likely s/he was particularly impressionable and had probably been fed stories about demons from trusted sources. I remember tying a towel around my neck and trying to leap tall buildings in a single bound when I was a kid-I grew out of it (well most of the time)

 

I don't believe in a god, supreme being, big cahuna, or grand mugwump (probably all of which you would like to see CAPITALIZED), but I get a kick out of reading my tarot cards or having my fortune told at the fair.  It's fun, and reading Harry Potter books is also fun. Too bad someone is spoiling it for this kid.

 

 


Kreacherteacher wrote:

Hah! I am only offended because you didn't capitalize the word "Christian", but maybe that's because I teach Language Arts. :-)
For my two cents, I agree completely with Psychee. I think there is a lot to say about the power of suggestion. Getting rid of the books satisfied a psychological need of hers.
I hear many people say that you shouldn't mess with the world involving spirits especially with tools like tarot cards, ouija boards, etc. I do not perhaps because I have been taught this throughout my life. It kind of freaks me out even at my age. So I can see how it could mess with the mind of someone much younger and much less capable of using reason.
TiggerBear wrote:

Please christians don't be offended.

But as a pagan  watching you guys use the word occult to be synonymous with demonic is a bit insulting. Occult doesn't mean darkness, forbidden, or scary. It just means supernatural. Are the HP books supernatural, yes, but so is Pinocchio. Don't often hear people calling that demonic.

 

(shrug) Honestly the HP books are highly nonreligious in nature. The closest they come is using the word christmas for the winter holidays.

 

 


 


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Kreacherteacher
Posts: 1,234
Registered: ‎07-24-2007
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

Hi there, Molly! How could I not come back and visit? I missed y'all and discussing HP.

 

For future reference, I am totally kidding about the grammar stuff. The last thing I want to do is alienate people with snooty grammar stuff.

 

KT

Distinguished Correspondent
Mollywobbles
Posts: 2,931
Registered: ‎06-15-2007

Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians


 Oh I know KT, I'm just pulling your leg :smileyhappy:  I remember a long discussion about how to handle a plural possessive when the word ends in an "S".  I still do not subscribe to the new-fangled fashion of adding an extra "s" after the apostrophe-it's just WRONG!

 

Visit more often, we've missed you too!


 

Kreacherteacher wrote:

Hi there, Molly! How could I not come back and visit? I missed y'all and discussing HP.

 

For future reference, I am totally kidding about the grammar stuff. The last thing I want to do is alienate people with snooty grammar stuff.

 

KT


 

Correspondent
plaidfroggie
Posts: 116
Registered: ‎04-21-2009

Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

PLS,

 

I do not believe in demons but I do believe in mental illness.  I think it would benefit that teenager more to go to a competent psychiatrist and therapist than to throw away books.  The suffocating feelings could be anxiety attacks, and the "demons" are likely hallucinations.

 

 

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flowertower87
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Registered: ‎07-04-2009
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Re: Harry Potter & Occult - for Christians

I'm a Christian and I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the Harry Potter books. Actually, I'm going to see the new movie on the 18th (I have to do something the day it comes out).

I'm pretty offended that you all said that ALL Christians hate Harry Potter and that we ALL think that it's a portal to a demon world. Come on, like one person said, I don't believe in that nonsense. The time has passed that people actually believed this stuff was true.

Harry Potter is just a nice book that just so happens to involve a little magic.

Next time you all want to start threads or whatever these things are called (I just joined this site so I don't know anything about it) don't go talking about ALL Christians. Say some Christians. ALL people don't do anything. Just like all emos don't cut themselves. Just like all gay people don't dress like the opposite sex. Just like all anybody doesn't do all anything.

Good day and goodbye, I hope my comment had some effect on you all and you'll stop saying that all of us believe in Juju nonsense.