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Inspired Wordsmith
Kreacherteacher
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Perfect Molly.
Inspired Wordsmith
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

I think that he would've sided with DD's opinion that perhaps it should play itself out. Not only would they be able to see where it led, but they would also be able to see more ability from Harry.
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Psychee
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

I don't think he had much of an opportunity to say anything.  He could not publicly say anything that would reveal he wanted to protect Harry as that would have blown his cover, and once the decision was made that Harry had entered into a "binding contract", it was too late to do anything about it on a private level. 

 

He did seem to believe that Harry had done this himself.  He probably also believed that Harry didn't have a chance of doing well in the competition and secretly hoped that Harry would get humiliated!

 


Mollywobbles wrote:
Aside from the verbal abuse of his students, especially Harry, I think we have generally agreed that Snape acted to protect Harry, however grudgingly.  Doesn't it seem odd, though, that Snape didn't voice any objections to Harry competing in the Tri-Wiz?  He only said in GOF that Potter had been crossing lines since he got to Hogwarts.  Snape didn't express any reservations, that I can find, about Harry being allowed to compete, either at the time, or in the Prince's Tale pensieve memories.  Surely Snape must have seen that someone wanted Harry to compete and place himself in danger.  It just seems odd given the other protective things Snape did, that he wouldn't have tried to have Harry kept out of the tournament. 

 

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Mollywobbles
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Snape could have sided more vehemently with Karakoff and Madame Maxime-stressing that Harry was underage, the the competition specified one champion from each school etc. without giving the game away.  If Snape believed Harry had entered his own name, it would have been more in character for Snape to try and prevent Harry from competing, rather than remaining silent.

 

Perhaps, as you say, he was secretly relishing the thought of Harry humiliating himself, but he must also have known that there would be an element of risk which might exceed the ability of a 4th year student to cope with.  A bit of a dilemma for Snape, wouldn't you say?

 


Psychee wrote:

I don't think he had much of an opportunity to say anything.  He could not publicly say anything that would reveal he wanted to protect Harry as that would have blown his cover, and once the decision was made that Harry had entered into a "binding contract", it was too late to do anything about it on a private level. 

 

He did seem to believe that Harry had done this himself.  He probably also believed that Harry didn't have a chance of doing well in the competition and secretly hoped that Harry would get humiliated!

 


Mollywobbles wrote:
Aside from the verbal abuse of his students, especially Harry, I think we have generally agreed that Snape acted to protect Harry, however grudgingly.  Doesn't it seem odd, though, that Snape didn't voice any objections to Harry competing in the Tri-Wiz?  He only said in GOF that Potter had been crossing lines since he got to Hogwarts.  Snape didn't express any reservations, that I can find, about Harry being allowed to compete, either at the time, or in the Prince's Tale pensieve memories.  Surely Snape must have seen that someone wanted Harry to compete and place himself in danger.  It just seems odd given the other protective things Snape did, that he wouldn't have tried to have Harry kept out of the tournament. 

 


 

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HPSeeker
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Good call, Tpau -- very appropriate! : Donna Tpau wrote: Have you ever listened to the song "Unforgiven" ? Pay close attention to the lyrics and tell me what you think. Couldn't that be considered Snape's song ? The Unforgive by Metallica New blood joins this earth And quickly he's subdued Through constant pained disgrace The young boy learns their rules With time the child draws in This whipping boy done wrong Deprived of all his thoughts The young man struggles on and on he's known A vow unto his own That never from this day His will they'll take away What I've felt What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never be Never see Won't see what might have been What I've felt What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never free Never me So I dub thee unforgiven They dedicate their lives To running all of his He tries to please them all This bitter man he is Throughout his life the same He's battled constantly This fight he cannot win A tired man they see no longer cares The old man then prepares To die regretfully That old man here is me What I've felt What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never be Never see Won't see what might have been What I've felt What I've known Never shined through in what I've shown Never free Never me So I dub thee unforgiven"
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Psychee
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

He did let it be known that he was against Harry getting the privilege to compete simply in what he said and his scowls of contempt for the discussion.  But the decision wasn't up to Dumbledore, whom he was comfortable arguing with.  It was up to the Ministry, and they didn't value his opinion anymore than they valued Karkaroff's.   

 

I think everyone believed that they had put enough safeguards in place to keep the contestants from dying even if they were too incompetent to handle the tasks.  But you're right that he was placed in a dilemma situation.  At the very least, this meant more work for him protecting the kid.

 


Mollywobbles wrote:

Snape could have sided more vehemently with Karakoff and Madame Maxime-stressing that Harry was underage, the the competition specified one champion from each school etc. without giving the game away.  If Snape believed Harry had entered his own name, it would have been more in character for Snape to try and prevent Harry from competing, rather than remaining silent.

 

Perhaps, as you say, he was secretly relishing the thought of Harry humiliating himself, but he must also have known that there would be an element of risk which might exceed the ability of a 4th year student to cope with.  A bit of a dilemma for Snape, wouldn't you say?

 


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TPau
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread


Mollywobbles wrote:
Aside from the verbal abuse of his students, especially Harry, I think we have generally agreed that Snape acted to protect Harry, however grudgingly.  Doesn't it seem odd, though, that Snape didn't voice any objections to Harry competing in the Tri-Wiz?  He only said in GOF that Potter had been crossing lines since he got to Hogwarts.  Snape didn't express any reservations, that I can find, about Harry being allowed to compete, either at the time, or in the Prince's Tale pensieve memories.  Surely Snape must have seen that someone wanted Harry to compete and place himself in danger.  It just seems odd given the other protective things Snape did, that he wouldn't have tried to have Harry kept out of the tournament. 

 

I think that Snape thought Harry had put his name on the Goblet.  I was checking the book GoF and, when everybody was discussing about Harry's name being chosen by the Goblet, Snape said to Karkaroff:  "It's no one's fault but Potter's Karkaroff. (...) Don't go blaming Dumbledore for Potter's determination to break rules.  He ha been crossing lines ever since he arrived here".  If he thought it was Harry's fault, he would probably think Harry would have to face the consequences.

 

On the other hand, if there was someone who could avoid the whole situation, it was DD.  He was the only one that could make the move to forbid Harry to participated on the tournment.  That was his move since he was the headmaster.

 

Of course the Ministery would give the last word, but DD was respected and feared.  I doubt they would go against him if the had chosen to not allow Harry to participate.  However, I think he did wanted Harry to take part of the tournment because he knew VD was behind the whole thing and that was a great opportunity to find more about VD plans.

"Do not blindly believe in professionals. An amateur built the ark. A group of professionals built the Titanic."
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

I think something to keep in mind is that there was always a secret communication between Snape and Dumbledore about Harry and the whole Voldemort situation. We all know that Dumbledore had his reasons for allowing many things with Harry, some harmful, because it had to play out in the end. Snape, although he may have protested to Dumbledore privately at some point, wasn't going to go against Dumbledore. We don't know if they had a private conversation before all the professors were together discussing it. And if they hadn't yet talked privately, then Snape's reaction here wasn't any different than we would expect, considering his thoughts on Harry's rebellious behavior.
: Donna
P.S. I wonder why, with this new format (again!) my "quote post" won't work *sigh*


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mollywobbles wrote:
Aside from the verbal abuse of his students, especially Harry, I think we have generally agreed that Snape
acted to protect Harry, however grudgingly. Doesn't it seem odd, though, that Snape didn't voice any
objections to Harry competing in the Tri-Wiz? He only said in GOF that Potter had been crossing lines since he
got to Hogwarts. Snape didn't express any reservations, that I can find, about Harry being allowed to
compete, either at the time, or in the Prince's Tale pensieve memories. Surely Snape must have seen that
someone wanted Harry to compete and place himself in danger. It just seems odd given the other protective
things Snape did, that he wouldn't have tried to have Harry kept out of the tournament.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tpau wrote:
I think that Snape thought Harry had put his name on the Goblet. I was checking the book GoF and, when everybody was discussing about Harry's name being chosen by the Goblet, Snape said to Karkaroff: "It's no one's fault but Potter's Karkaroff. (...) Don't go blaming Dumbledore for Potter's determination to break rules. He ha been crossing lines ever since he arrived here". If he thought it was Harry's fault, he would probably think Harry would have to face the consequences.

On the other hand, if there was someone who could avoid the whole situation, it was DD. He was the only one that could make the move to forbid Harry to participated on the tournment. That was his move since he was the headmaster.

Of course the Ministery would give the last word, but DD was respected and feared. I doubt they would go against him if the had chosen to not allow Harry to participate. However, I think he did wanted Harry to take part of the tournment because he knew VD was behind the whole thing and that was a great opportunity to find more about VD plans.
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Mollywobbles
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

[ Edited ]

I don't know, HPS (hi, by the way!) I think the only opportunity Snape had to try and express his reservations or objections about Harry competing was immediately after the names came out of the goblet and the various people had assembled in the chamber off the great hall.  I'm just surprised Snape wasn't more vocal.  Granted, he deferred to Dumbledore, but since Karakoff and Madame Maxine were voicing their objections, I don't see why Snape didn't make more of an effort.  McGonagall was objecting loudly on the basis of the danger to Harry, I would have thought Snape could object equally loudly on the basis that Harry was, once again, breaking rules.

 

What was really surprising was that Harry, himself, didn't object.  He knew he hadn't put his name in, and he had to figure he would be out of his depth (even without knowing what the second task was :smileywink: ) Aside from replying that he hadn't put his name in, Harry doesn't say much of anything. Perhaps he is just stunned, or perhaps there was a little bit of him that was thinking he could fulfill his fantasies of winning the tournament.  Again, this "binding magical contract" is very suspect.

 

By the way, I've noticed that it takes a little while for the new features to load (the smiley's for example), you may just be hitting the quote post icon too quickly.


HPSeeker wrote:
I think something to keep in mind is that there was always a secret communication between Snape and Dumbledore about Harry and the whole Voldemort situation. We all know that Dumbledore had his reasons for allowing many things with Harry, some harmful, because it had to play out in the end. Snape, although he may have protested to Dumbledore privately at some point, wasn't going to go against Dumbledore. We don't know if they had a private conversation before all the professors were together discussing it. And if they hadn't yet talked privately, then Snape's reaction here wasn't any different than we would expect, considering his thoughts on Harry's rebellious behavior.
: Donna
P.S. I wonder why, with this new format (again!) my "quote post" won't work *sigh*


 

Message Edited by Mollywobbles on 07-20-2008 03:34 PM
Message Edited by Mollywobbles on 07-20-2008 03:36 PM
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Hi TPau,

 

I agree Snape probably thought, at the outset, that Harry had found a way to submit his name, but after hearing Moody/Crouch say that it would take a very powerful confundus to fool the goblet, Snape must have wondered.  Snape didn't have a very high opinion of Harry's capabilities, did he?  I think the quote you mention goes more to Snape's defense of Dumbledore when Karakoff and Madame Maxime were blaming Dumbledore for fouling up in drawing the age line.  Once the Ministry had spoken, and Dumbledore had tacitly agreed, there wasn't anything more that Snape could do, no matter whether he was worried about the risk to Harry, or he was looking forward to Harry being humiliated.

 

 

 

 

 


TPau wrote:

 

I think that Snape thought Harry had put his name on the Goblet.  I was checking the book GoF and, when everybody was discussing about Harry's name being chosen by the Goblet, Snape said to Karkaroff:  "It's no one's fault but Potter's Karkaroff. (...) Don't go blaming Dumbledore for Potter's determination to break rules.  He ha been crossing lines ever since he arrived here".  If he thought it was Harry's fault, he would probably think Harry would have to face the consequences.

 

On the other hand, if there was someone who could avoid the whole situation, it was DD.  He was the only one that could make the move to forbid Harry to participated on the tournment.  That was his move since he was the headmaster.

 

Of course the Ministery would give the last word, but DD was respected and feared.  I doubt they would go against him if the had chosen to not allow Harry to participate.  However, I think he did wanted Harry to take part of the tournment because he knew VD was behind the whole thing and that was a great opportunity to find more about VD plans.


 

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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

They might have felt they had enough safeguards in place to keep the 17 year olds from dying, but they hadn't considered the capabilities of a 14 year old when establishing those safeguards. In the first task, if it hadn't been for Harry's flying skill, and his Quidditch reflexes, and the fact that Moody/Crouch steered him towards the idea of using his broom, and that Hermione was able to teach Harry the Summoning Charm,  Harry would have been toast, literally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Psychee wrote:

 

 

I think everyone believed that they had put enough safeguards in place to keep the contestants from dying even if they were too incompetent to handle the tasks.  But you're right that he was placed in a dilemma situation.  At the very least, this meant more work for him protecting the kid.

 


Mollywobbles wrote:

Snape could have sided more vehemently with Karakoff and Madame Maxime-stressing that Harry was underage, the the competition specified one champion from each school etc. without giving the game away.  If Snape believed Harry had entered his own name, it would have been more in character for Snape to try and prevent Harry from competing, rather than remaining silent.

 

Perhaps, as you say, he was secretly relishing the thought of Harry humiliating himself, but he must also have known that there would be an element of risk which might exceed the ability of a 4th year student to cope with.  A bit of a dilemma for Snape, wouldn't you say?

 



 

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Psychee
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Wizards were standing by ready to rescue him, though.  There was a special squad to do that for the dragons (I think Charlie said something about that) , and Fleur was rescued in the next two tasks by the system they set up.  We just didn't get to see the particulars of that security system.

 


Mollywobbles wrote:

They might have felt they had enough safeguards in place to keep the 17 year olds from dying, but they hadn't considered the capabilities of a 14 year old when establishing those safeguards. In the first task, if it hadn't been for Harry's flying skill, and his Quidditch reflexes, and the fact that Moody/Crouch steered him towards the idea of using his broom, and that Hermione was able to teach Harry the Summoning Charm,  Harry would have been toast, literally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Kreacherteacher
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Too bad they couldn't rescue Cedric. That still bums me out.

 


Psychee wrote:

Wizards were standing by ready to rescue him, though.  There was a special squad to do that for the dragons (I think Charlie said something about that) , and Fleur was rescued in the next two tasks by the system they set up.  We just didn't get to see the particulars of that security system.

 

 

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ConnieAnnKirk
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Song Lyrics

Sorry about editing out the song lyrics, gang.  It's ok to quote a stanza or chorus, but not the whole thing.  You could provide a link to the full song if it's elsewhere on the web.

 

Thanks for understanding!

 

~ConnieK

~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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HPSeeker
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

hey, Molly :smileyhappy: Nice to see ya!

OK, sooo...perhaps Snape had to keep up his front for any possible Death Eaters in the room (Karkaroff).

And you know what? For some reason, AOL keeps screwing around with me so it doesn't work right --- the smileys and other features work if I go through Firefox, but don't seem to load completely when I do it in here *sigh*
:smileyvery-happy:onna
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mollywobbles wrote:
I don't know, HPS (hi, by the way!) I think the only opportunity Snape had to try and express his reservations or objections about Harry competing was immediately after the names came out of the goblet and the various people had assembled in the chamber off the great hall. I'm just surprised Snape wasn't more vocal. Granted, he deferred to Dumbledore, but since Karakoff and Madame Maxine were voicing their objections, I don't see why Snape didn't make more of an effort. McGonagall was objecting loudly on the basis of the danger to Harry, I would have thought Snape could object equally loudly on the basis that Harry was, once again, breaking rules.

What was really surprising was that Harry, himself, didn't object. He knew he hadn't put his name in, and he had to figure he would be out of his depth (even without knowing what the second task was ) Aside from replying that he hadn't put his name in, Harry doesn't say much of anything. Perhaps he is just stunned, or perhaps there was a little bit of him that was thinking he could fulfill his fantasies of winning the tournament. Again, this "binding magical contract" is very suspect.

By the way, I've noticed that it takes a little while for the new features to load (the smiley's for example), you may just be hitting the quote post icon too quickly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HPSeeker wrote:
I think something to keep in mind is that there was always a secret communication between Snape and Dumbledore about Harry and the whole Voldemort situation. We all know that Dumbledore had his reasons for allowing many things with Harry, some harmful, because it had to play out in the end. Snape, although he may have protested to Dumbledore privately at some point, wasn't going to go against Dumbledore. We don't know if they had a private conversation before all the professors were together discussing it. And if they hadn't yet talked privately, then Snape's reaction here wasn't any different than we would expect, considering his thoughts on Harry's rebellious behavior.
: Donna
P.S. I wonder why, with this new format (again!) my "quote post" won't work *sigh*
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

I don't think Snape would have been too worried about Karakoff, he was persona not grata to the death eaters, having betrayed some of them, and he was quick to flee once the dark mark summoned the death eaters.  Snape didn't know about Moody/Crouch at that point either.  Of course, Snape probably figured Harry wasn't bright enough to hoodwink the age line and the goblet on his own, and probably did figure there was a spy, but I think he figured Karakoff was too spineless to be the one.  I don't know who else Snape might have considered as a possible spy in their midst.  The only new people in the castle on a continuous basis were Karakoff, Moody/Crouch, Madame Maxime and the students from the other two schools.

 


HPSeeker wrote:
hey, Molly :smileyhappy: Nice to see ya!

OK, sooo...perhaps Snape had to keep up his front for any possible Death Eaters in the room (Karkaroff).

And you know what? For some reason, AOL keeps screwing around with me so it doesn't work right --- the smileys and other features work if I go through Firefox, but don't seem to load completely when I do it in here *sigh*
:smileyvery-happy:onna
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

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mrsronaldweasley
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

 

Omigosh. This thread is so big, its getting bigger than Snape's nose himself! (and that's really really big!) I don't know where to start! So what are you guys discussing about him now? I bet its something new about Snape. Lol

 

And my dear friends who doesn't post anywhere else but here, I URGE YOU. Read-I-urge-you to shower us with your wonderful thoughts and share it with the rest of the board! Why not?? ;p

I miss you guys !

o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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HPSeeker
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

Hey, Mrs! :smileyhappy:
Nice to see ya!
I have to tell you, my mind and reading interests for the past few weeks has been totally engulfed by the "Twilight" series! If you guys haven't read them, you MUST!!! Someone told me about the books a while ago, but when I picked the first one up, it didn't grab me. Only 3 weeks ago, through a lot of urging by a few of the younger women I know at B&N, they nudged me, telling me I didn't read far enough into it to get hooked. They were right! And then I found out the 4th and last of the series was going to be released on Aug. 4th! I have never read so much fiction consecutively in my life --- the whole series in 2 weeks! lol This is the first time since HP that I felt so strongly and anxious about a series. I can't recommend it enough!
Now, unfortunately, I don't have much more to say about Snape and HP. It's only on the rare occasion that something pops up that I don't remember being discussed a zillion times before that spurs me to comment. Are there any other threads that are interesting? Though I'm thinking to see if B&N has a Twilight book club! lol
: Donna

mrsronaldweasley wrote:

Omigosh. This thread is so big, its getting bigger than Snape's nose himself! (and that's really really big!) I don't know where to start! So what are you guys discussing about him now? I bet its something new about Snape. Lol

 

And my dear friends who doesn't post anywhere else but here, I URGE YOU. Read-I-urge-you to shower us with your wonderful thoughts and share it with the rest of the board! Why not?? ;p

I miss you guys !


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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

[ Edited ]

Our old Snape-ster might enjoy Edward & Co.--what do you think?  :smileywink:

 

Donna--FYI--BN.com has a book discussion going on right now for Breaking Dawn  and the Twilight series in the Teen Club.

 

~ConnieK

 

 


HPSeeker wrote, in part:
I have to tell you, my mind and reading interests for the past few weeks has been totally engulfed by the "Twilight" series! If you guys haven't read them, you MUST!!! Someone told me about the books a while ago, but when I picked the first one up, it didn't grab me. Only 3 weeks ago, through a lot of urging by a few of the younger women I know at B&N, they nudged me, telling me I didn't read far enough into it to get hooked. They were right! And then I found out the 4th and last of the series was going to be released on Aug. 4th! I have never read so much fiction consecutively in my life --- the whole series in 2 weeks! lol This is the first time since HP that I felt so strongly and anxious about a series. I can't recommend it enough!
...I'm thinking to see if B&N has a Twilight book club! lol
: Donna
Message Edited by ConnieK on 08-06-2008 10:44 AM
~ConnieAnnKirk




[CAK's books , website.]
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Mollywobbles
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Re: **SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

The silver doe.

 

Maybe this belongs in tiny questions, but what the heck, I haven't talked about Snape for ages.

 

In DH, Phineas' portrait overhears Hermione say they are camping in the Forest of Dean, and then tells Snape.  Snape then puts the plan in motion to put the sword in the water.

 

Here's the question.  When Hermione and Harry set up camp they put a bunch of enchantments around their camp site.  The Forest of Dean is presumably a fairly large place.  How did Snape know exactly where the kids were camping so he could send the doe there to lure Harry to the pond where the sword was?  Why didn't the enchantments protect their location?  The doe could have been wandering around the whole forest, but it didn't. It showed up near the tent where Harry could spot it.  Once Snape had the general location, was he able to spot the campsite by the very presence of the magical enchantments (much like Dumbledore spotted the door in the cave?)  If so, wouldn't the bad guys be able to do the same thing? I know the bad guys didn't have a general location, but if wizards can detect the magical enchantments, even if they can't necessarily penetrate them, wouldn't that be a giveaway that someone was hiding within the enchantments?