**SPOILERS** -- The Snape Thread

[Luthien]

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kpeterson32 wrote:
Incidentally, last night, just for fun, I looked back at a journal entry I wrote the night after I finished Half Blood Prince. My eyes just about popped out of my head as I read my own words saying that Snape and Dumbledore must have planned it and that Snape couldn't really be evil. At least not that evil. I didn't remember ever thinking that, but there it was in my own handwriting. Looking back on it now, I remember expressing this thought to my co-workers who immediately told me I was wrong and showed me exactly why, a belief that I became so convinced was right, I completely forgot that I had ever believed differently. And I thought I learned that lesson long ago to always go with my gut instinct...

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That's kind of funny. What I keep remembering is how, way back when I started reading the books, my mom announced that Snape was her favorite character, and I thought she was out of her mind! Little did I know I would spend much of July arguing in his defense, or that he would become the character I was most concerned about going into the last book...

[PattyBNUChick]

I know me to : ) I can't get over the doe. I liked Snape, thought he was DDs man, but I still kept thinking his patronous would be something mean looking or slimy or something, but wow that doe.

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Luthien wrote:

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littlelis19 wrote:
This was my favorite chapter in the book. I did not believe Snape was ever evil, I never believed DD was begging for his life at the end of number 6. This was my favorite chapter of the book. Finding out that Snape and Lily were that close was mind-blowing...she called him Sev and he referenced their friendship as "best friends". So weird. I loved it though.

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Thinking of the two of them being best friends almost made me cry, I loved it. The night after I read the book, sections of that chapter just kept replaying themselves in my mind, over and over and over...

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[Phantom531]

How different do you think it might have been between Harry and Snape, with Harry knowing everything he did, if Snape had lived? I doubt they'd be close, but Harry obviously changed his feelings about him when he named his son after him. Any one? My boyfriend hasn't finished the book yet and I'm dying to address this.

[Kreacherteacher]

Follow-up to Snape's death...

Having proved himself on Earth, God grants Snape the Defense Against the Dark Arts job in Heaven. He teaches angels and other universal beings how to defend themselves against the ultimate evil, Satan. Ultimately Satan is defeated. God sends his son to Earth for the 2nd coming, but his name is Severus Christ this time around. However, he still hasn't figured out how to wash his hair thus scaring the hell out of people.

Having scared the hell out of people, he has accomplished his mission and can return to Heaven. Father, son, and the Holy Ghost (Peeves) are united and happy.

I mean this only in fun. I hope no one is offended by this post.

Message Edited by Kreacherteacher on 07-27-2007 11:43 AM

[PattyBNUChick]

I don't know. I used to think they could become friends, but now I'm not very sure of that at all. It was all about Lily and Snape couldn't see past that. His job is done once Voldemort is gone and I don't know that he would have stuck around at all, so maybe its better that he died. In my opinion, my view of things, he's on the other side of the veil where I think he would finally be able to see past everything, no longer detest James, see Lily again. If Snape had lived, he may have helped save the world, but perhaps, or probably Harry may never have found out what Snape did. Snape's gone, but so is Voldemort, Harry's safe...The world is a better place, Harry's gone and named his son after him, Snape is finally happy. I think it had to work out this way.

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Phantom531 wrote:
How different do you think it might have been between Harry and Snape, with Harry knowing everything he did, if Snape had lived? I doubt they'd be close, but Harry obviously changed his feelings about him when he named his son after him. Any one? My boyfriend hasn't finished the book yet and I'm dying to address this.

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[maggie21]

Ah........poor Sev,Lily gave him many chances,he let them slip away!I don't think Harry and Snape could ever have been buds,regardless of the pensive.Harry was a potter after all,a constant reminder to Snape of love lost!He still did'nt care for Harry,he loved his mother.I think Harry respected that love for his mother,enough to name a child after him.

[Phantom531]

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Kreacherteacher wrote:
Follow-up to Snape's death...

Having proved himself on Earth, God grants Snape the Defense Against the Dark Arts job in Heaven. He teaches angels and other universal beings how to defend themselves against the ultimate evil, Satan. Ultimately Satan is defeated. God sends his son to Earth for the 2nd coming, but his name is Severus Christ this time around. However, he still hasn't figured out how to wash his hair thus scaring the hell out of people.

Having scared the hell out of people, he has accomplished his mission and can return to Heaven. Father, son, and the Holy Ghost (Peeves) are united and happy.

I mean this only in fun. I hope no one is offended by this post.

Message Edited by Kreacherteacher on 07-27-2007 11:43 AM

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I love it! Hahahaha! This is great!

[dancingchick094]

That's brilliant.

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ravensilverlight wrote:
Firstly, the "awww" factor - about Harry naming his son Albus Severus. I like to think that Harry finally came to grips with Snape's story, even pitied him and forgave. Then when his son was born, and he saw that this child inherited his eyes - Lily's eyes - he named him after Severus, whose life was lived, and lost, because of those eyes. Awwww.

Also, about Snape's motivations for being so horrible to, well, everyone. Imagine his life. We know from the Occlumency lessons that Snape had an abusive home life. He finds Lily as a child. Someone like him-magical. They connect in the easy, innocent way that children do, with the added "specialness" of being part of the magical world. He can feel important to her, because he explains the wizarding world to her. And she gives him a view of what he wishes he could have; a normal family life. She is his touchstone until he goes to Hogwarts. Maybe even the only person he told about his home life - she seems to know, when she asked if "they" were still fighting.
Then they leave for Hogwarts, and are immediately separated from one another. We have learned, throughout the series, that most of the Houses are kept separate from one another, only sharing a few classes, but not all of them. They have separate common rooms in which to spend their time, so it is only natural that he makes friends with Slytherins and she with Gryffindors. Still he tries to maintain a friendship, even falls in love. But he is sliding down a slippery slope, for once he gets in with the DE, there is no leaving. And finally, he loses her, by accident. And in calling her - and those like her - Mudbloods, we learn what I feel is his biggest motivation. Self loathing. Because, at the end of HBP, doesn't Hermione announce that Eileen Prince married a Muggle? Making Severus Snape a half-blood.
So Snape clings to the "friends" he has left; follows them into service for LV. And is aghast upon learning that LV is going to kill Lily. He has never dropped the torch for her. He pleads with LV to spare her. And he goes to Dumbledore to beg him to protect her. All to no avail. Lily dies.
And on the heels of her death, Snape probably wanted to die too! He could finally leave the DE and be happy about it, because he can't stand the idea of working for LV anymore. How can he spend his life serving someone who killed his only love? Far better to die! But no. Dumbledore convinces him to save that which Lily died for. Perhaps it would have been kinder to Snape to let him die. Because he then has to spend the rest of his life serving LV, and Dumbledore. Voldemort does not have his loyalty; Voldemort killed his Lily. Dumbledore doesn't have his devotion either. Dumbledore uses (remember this is Snape's POV) him to protect Harry. This is just torture! Harry is just like his father. And Snape hated James. Not to mention that DD failed to protect Lily, so he is just as bad in Snape's mind as LV. But the real reason Lily is dead is because of Snape himself.
His whole life is a bunch of "if only"s. If only he hadn't told the prophecy. If only he tried to stop Voldemort harder...if only. He blamed everyone for her death, on the outside, but inside Snape blamed himself. He was never happy. He hated himself for what he had done, what he had become, and what he had to keep doing, on both sides of the war, to protect what Lily loved.
So why was Snape so horrible to Neville, to Hermione, etc.? I think because he didn't know how to be anything else. He hated himself, and when one hates one's self, one tends to hate everyone else too.
Sorry for the rant. It's just how I feel. Snape was not a good guy, or a bad guy. He is the saddest character of all. A pitiable hero.

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[dancingchick094]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I never thought about that. You'd think that Lily would've been in love with Snape if she let that happen, you know? I mean, it seemed like Lily just wanted to be best friends with him, and nothing more.

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
I know this is going to gross a lot of you out (although I'm not grossed out) because of the yellow teeth and greasy hair, but I wonder if Lily and Snape ever kissed, you know, sometime between 11 and whatever.. Before you yell at me for grossing you out, checkout the Snape Stew comment above lol.

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[dancingchick094]

Really? You think his parents cared enough about him to buy him a toothbrush? :]

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
lol, I like the shudder : ) You know, maybe before Hogwarts even, who knows. I'm thinking his teeth probably weren't yellow back then for one thing.

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RiftDoggy wrote:
*shudders* I don't know...I think...no...yes...no...no...yes...I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, though, ...I don't know. I can...almost...maybe...see it? I mean, by third or fourth year, Lily would have noticed that he was a bit...in love with her D:

I can almost see it. Maybe once. Or not. Or maybe. Nah. Possibly. No.

If they had, James would probably know, and I don't know if he'd kiss someone Slimy Stinky Severus Snape had kissed. Though, the "Sev" name seems just about right in a kissing situation.

"Sev..."

EWWWWWWW. God, WHY did you have to plant that image in my head...!?!?!?!?!

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[dancingchick094]

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GinnyWeaslby wrote:
Qwikpoll

Snape is on the ___________ side


good



Evil




i do not care he is still a git

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Wow that's blunt....not very open-minded are you?

[GinnyWeaslby]

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dancingchick094 wrote:

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GinnyWeaslby wrote:
Qwikpoll

Snape is on the ___________ side


good



Evil




i do not care he is still a git

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Wow that's blunt....not very open-minded are you?

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I am open minded but he is a git

[PattyBNUChick]

Between the ages of 11 and 17 I kissed a much larger percentage of boys than I did in any 7 year period before or after that. I think for me, it was a time of kissing boys that you weren't necessarily in love with sometimes : ) I'm not saying Lily didn't love Snape, but being in love and loving someone can be two different things. Hope I'm making sense.

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dancingchick094 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I never thought about that. You'd think that Lily would've been in love with Snape if she let that happen, you know? I mean, it seemed like Lily just wanted to be best friends with him, and nothing more.

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
I know this is going to gross a lot of you out (although I'm not grossed out) because of the yellow teeth and greasy hair, but I wonder if Lily and Snape ever kissed, you know, sometime between 11 and whatever.. Before you yell at me for grossing you out, checkout the Snape Stew comment above lol.

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[PattyBNUChick]

I think maybe it took his teeth a while to get yellow.

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dancingchick094 wrote:
Really? You think his parents cared enough about him to buy him a toothbrush? :]

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
lol, I like the shudder : ) You know, maybe before Hogwarts even, who knows. I'm thinking his teeth probably weren't yellow back then for one thing.

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RiftDoggy wrote:
*shudders* I don't know...I think...no...yes...no...no...yes...I DON'T WANT TO KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, though, ...I don't know. I can...almost...maybe...see it? I mean, by third or fourth year, Lily would have noticed that he was a bit...in love with her D:

I can almost see it. Maybe once. Or not. Or maybe. Nah. Possibly. No.

If they had, James would probably know, and I don't know if he'd kiss someone Slimy Stinky Severus Snape had kissed. Though, the "Sev" name seems just about right in a kissing situation.

"Sev..."

EWWWWWWW. God, WHY did you have to plant that image in my head...!?!?!?!?!

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[Linda301]

Patty - I can even remember one or two that now remind of Snape!

Linda

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
Between the ages of 11 and 17 I kissed a much larger percentage of boys than I did in any 7 year period before or after that. I think for me, it was a time of kissing boys that you weren't necessarily in love with sometimes : ) I'm not saying Lily didn't love Snape, but being in love and loving someone can be two different things. Hope I'm making sense.

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dancingchick094 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I never thought about that. You'd think that Lily would've been in love with Snape if she let that happen, you know? I mean, it seemed like Lily just wanted to be best friends with him, and nothing more.

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
I know this is going to gross a lot of you out (although I'm not grossed out) because of the yellow teeth and greasy hair, but I wonder if Lily and Snape ever kissed, you know, sometime between 11 and whatever.. Before you yell at me for grossing you out, checkout the Snape Stew comment above lol.

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[PattyBNUChick]

yeah lol. : )

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Linda301 wrote:
Patty - I can even remember one or two that now remind of Snape!

Linda

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
Between the ages of 11 and 17 I kissed a much larger percentage of boys than I did in any 7 year period before or after that. I think for me, it was a time of kissing boys that you weren't necessarily in love with sometimes : ) I'm not saying Lily didn't love Snape, but being in love and loving someone can be two different things. Hope I'm making sense.

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dancingchick094 wrote:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I never thought about that. You'd think that Lily would've been in love with Snape if she let that happen, you know? I mean, it seemed like Lily just wanted to be best friends with him, and nothing more.

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
I know this is going to gross a lot of you out (although I'm not grossed out) because of the yellow teeth and greasy hair, but I wonder if Lily and Snape ever kissed, you know, sometime between 11 and whatever.. Before you yell at me for grossing you out, checkout the Snape Stew comment above lol.

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[dancingchick094]

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But the King of Nastiness was out of the picture for 13 years. Can you imagine being around Dumbledore for that long and never learning to find or even to look for the good in people? He must have had an impenetrable heart!

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I think, and this might make no sense at all, that while Snape was extremely courageous, he also had a bit of cowardice in his heart. We know that he was afraid that his secrets would leak out (the ones about Lily), which is why he didn't confide in anyone except Dumbledore. He wanted to encourage people's false idea that he was tough, mean, and heartless. He started that look from the time he first set foot at Hogwarts, how could he stop now? How could he face the humiliation when people found out that he loved, lost, and truly felt? What would he do when people realized he only meddled with the Dark Arts to be cool and powerful, to hide his thoughts and feelings? The fact is, he couldn't, so he didn't.

[dancingchick094]

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
I know me to : ) I can't get over the doe. I liked Snape, thought he was DDs man, but I still kept thinking his patronous would be something mean looking or slimy or something, but wow that doe.

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Luthien wrote:

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Haha me too. I wonder if his Patronus was always a doe, or if it changed after Lily died. What do you think?

[dancingchick094]

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Kreacherteacher wrote:
Follow-up to Snape's death...

Having proved himself on Earth, God grants Snape the Defense Against the Dark Arts job in Heaven. He teaches angels and other universal beings how to defend themselves against the ultimate evil, Satan. Ultimately Satan is defeated. God sends his son to Earth for the 2nd coming, but his name is Severus Christ this time around. However, he still hasn't figured out how to wash his hair thus scaring the hell out of people.

Having scared the hell out of people, he has accomplished his mission and can return to Heaven. Father, son, and the Holy Ghost (Peeves) are united and happy.

I mean this only in fun. I hope no one is offended by this post.

Message Edited by Kreacherteacher on 07-27-2007 11:43 AM

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No offense taken. I'm a firm believer in Catholicism and I think that's absolutely hilarious :]

[Linda301]

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dancingchick094 wrote:

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PattyBNUChick wrote:
I know me to : ) I can't get over the doe. I liked Snape, thought he was DDs man, but I still kept thinking his patronous would be something mean looking or slimy or something, but wow that doe.

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Luthien wrote:

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Haha me too. I wonder if his Patronus was always a doe, or if it changed after Lily died. What do you think?

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Sorry to stick my two knuts worth in here, but I think Snape's patronus was always a doe. He knew Lily longer than he could produce a Patronus, right?

Linda