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Inspired Bibliophile
Psychee
Posts: 7,307
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries


JPaulson wrote:
These are great comments! Food for thought, certainly. During the fight at the Ministry, when Harry and V are blowing the fountain apart and D steps into the fray, I recall V posessing Harry and asking D to kill him if he could. At that time, V then opted to leave Harry because the LOVE in Harry's heart was an unbearable pain for V, he could not endure it for even a few minutes. Am thinking the LOVE room must have to do with LOVE for all mankind and creature-kind as well. This last would support the post about Harry not being able to perform the Crusiatus curse, nor Avada Kidevra when chasing Snape out the gates after D has been killed. He couldn't even bear the thought of using it.

It also seems the LOVE/HATE thing extends to House Elves. Dobbie overflows with love and goodness, Kreacher not so much; it feels to me as a reader that this is basic to the essence of each of those characters, not just naughty like Mundungus Fletcher. And it has made itself manifest in Fawkes, too. So how about one of his tail feathers residing in V's wand as well as Harry's? How is that going to play out? It would certainly not be the first time Fawkes saved Harry's cute little behind!

Anybody else have a like mind on this?




Of all the characters in the books still alive, I think Fawkes is one who could be in direct contact with that dangerous LOVE stuff and not be hurt by it. I expect we'll see him with it.

I don't believe that Harry could pull off a successful AK or a cruciatus curse. He could try doing them, but they wouldn't have the intended effect, because I think one has to so concentrate on the desire to cause the victim pain or death that he'd lose himself in the process, if only for few seconds. Killing a person with love, or tormenting them with love, though, is something I think he could do.

In fact, I think it is possible that during that duel in the Ministry Dumbledore was trying to envelope Voldemort with love. Voldemort shielded himself with a silver shield to keep the effect away from him, but I think that's what Dumbledore was doing.... Sort of a lasso of love that would imprison him.
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adribetty394
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

Lasso of love jajajaja that's REALLY good! :smileyvery-happy:

Ok so what about this? So what if after Harry tries and fails the AK then all of his loved ones gather around him and concentrate on how much they belive in him and what start comeing out of Harry's wand is love and... caplutz. Voldy Bits.
~*~it's the unknow we fear when we look upon death and darkness~*~
Inspired Bibliophile
Psychee
Posts: 7,307
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries



Mollywobbles wrote:
If I might go back to an earlier part of Psychees posting (getting a little to choked up with all this lovey dovey stuff)..you mentioned Music. Harry has heard inspiring music twice, as I recall, Phoenix song. It gave him comfort, hope etc. Will Phoenix song play a part in the whole love stuff adventure?




Yes! Thanks for bringing that sub-topic back up!

Phoenix song always give Harry courage, but we never see the other effect of the Phoenix song, which is supposed to evoke fear in the hearts of bad guys. We don't see it because we never get inside the heads of the bad guys.

I find it interesting that the two people who worked on or with the Philospher's Stone (which requires a kind of soul-perfection to do right), Flamel and Dumbledore (by association), both have something on their Chocolate Frog Cards which mentions music. Dumbledore is an affectionado of Chamber Music and Flamel is a fan of Opera. Music HAS to be a part of this...
Inspired Bibliophile
Psychee
Posts: 7,307
Registered: ‎04-17-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries



adribetty394 wrote:
Lasso of love jajajaja that's REALLY good! :smileyvery-happy:

Ok so what about this? So what if after Harry tries and fails the AK then all of his loved ones gather around him and concentrate on how much they belive in him and what start comeing out of Harry's wand is love and... caplutz. Voldy Bits.




I don't think that Harry would have enough power to kill Voldy with anything from his wand, but he could corral him, especially with the help of his friends. Then, the concentrated LOVE stuff can be brought in.

If it is all done near the Arch, what do you think Voldy would do? Would he be in such pain that he would seek to escape through the Arch?
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amm1
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Registered: ‎04-02-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

OK. The LOVE stuff is a bottle of Coke. No, seriously. It's a great big bottle of Coca~ Cola and if we would all just hold hands and sing the coke song, there would be no evil in the world. It's the 'why can't we all just get along' type of thing. I really believe this is part of JKR's message.

I'd like to buy the world a home and furnish it with love,

Grow apple trees and honey bees, and snow white turtle doves.

I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony,

I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company.


I like the idea of Dumbledore trying to envelope Voldemort with love. heh Poor Voldy.
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Mollywobbles
Posts: 2,931
Registered: ‎06-15-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries



Psychee wrote:


Mollywobbles wrote:
If I might go back to an earlier part of Psychees posting (getting a little to choked up with all this lovey dovey stuff)..you mentioned Music. Harry has heard inspiring music twice, as I recall, Phoenix song. It gave him comfort, hope etc. Will Phoenix song play a part in the whole love stuff adventure?




Yes! Thanks for bringing that sub-topic back up!

Phoenix song always give Harry courage, but we never see the other effect of the Phoenix song, which is supposed to evoke fear in the hearts of bad guys. We don't see it because we never get inside the heads of the bad guys.

I find it interesting that the two people who worked on or with the Philospher's Stone (which requires a kind of soul-perfection to do right), Flamel and Dumbledore (by association), both have something on their Chocolate Frog Cards which mentions music. Dumbledore is an affectionado of Chamber Music and Flamel is a fan of Opera. Music HAS to be a part of this...


Yes, and Phoenix song has preceeded Harry's escape from dicey situations-bringing the hat and sword in the chamber of secrets, and filling him with hope, courage and comfort in the re-birthing scene. Music has to be in there somewhere. I can't recall any other kind of music (other than the scratchy band at Nearly Headless Nicks Death Day party) being mentioned in the books..and that certainly wasn't inspiring..oh, forgot the radio broadcast at Christmas..Cauldrons of hot boiling love..nope, I'm sticking with Phoenix song as the sound track to the final adventure.
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Stacy21
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Registered: ‎05-31-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries



Psychee wrote:


Stacy21 wrote:
I think the only time Harry ever felt true hatred was when he looked into Dumbledore's eyes and Voldemort was invading his thoughts and he was feeling what Voldemort felt. Do you think that would count?

I think Harry thinking or saying he hates someone is different than Harry actually hating someone. Now that it's being debated, it seems small, but I think that Harry is the hero, so if anyone is capable of not hating, it's him :smileyhappy:




That was Harry experiencing Voldemort's emotions; it's not the same thing.

Why do you think it is so bad for him to experience his own hate? It's a human emotion. It's natural. If you've never felt hate then how could you hope to understand or have empathy for others who hate? You need that experience! It's only when hate consumes you that it becomes dangerous. Harry has never let hate consume him, and he has always valued love more. That is what makes him our hero.




I don't think I ever said that it's bad to experience hate, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I just don't know that Harry feels hatred. I guess I didn't mean for this to be anything more than my opinion, and I can see that nobody else thinks that. It could very well be that Harry hates Voldemort something fierce... I'm just not seeing evidence in the books. I guess I'm looking for JK to SAY that Harry hates Voldemort. Not just that it would be natural for him to hate Voldemort...

Is it possible to talk a topic to death? I think I may have! Sorry if my opinion doesn't make sense to anyone else. It helps to be able to hear what others have to say though! Thank God for forums :smileyhappy:
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PattyBNUChick
Posts: 3,319
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

You may be onto something. So maybe Fawkes will play a huge part in book 7.

As I read your post, I had this funny thought, like maybe the Zombo Com website is playing in there. If you haven't been to this website, its just silly, but it made me laugh thinking about it playing in the room of love he he : )

http://zombo.com/
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PattyBNUChick
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

No one believes me : ), but I think we have seen it - with Pomfrey at the end of HBP how she reacts to Fawkes song.



Psychee wrote:


Mollywobbles wrote:
If I might go back to an earlier part of Psychees posting (getting a little to choked up with all this lovey dovey stuff)..you mentioned Music. Harry has heard inspiring music twice, as I recall, Phoenix song. It gave him comfort, hope etc. Will Phoenix song play a part in the whole love stuff adventure?




Yes! Thanks for bringing that sub-topic back up!

Phoenix song always give Harry courage, but we never see the other effect of the Phoenix song, which is supposed to evoke fear in the hearts of bad guys. We don't see it because we never get inside the heads of the bad guys.

I find it interesting that the two people who worked on or with the Philospher's Stone (which requires a kind of soul-perfection to do right), Flamel and Dumbledore (by association), both have something on their Chocolate Frog Cards which mentions music. Dumbledore is an affectionado of Chamber Music and Flamel is a fan of Opera. Music HAS to be a part of this...


New User
Darkzak70
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎06-20-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries



Psychee wrote:
"There is a room in the Department of Mysteries," interrupted Dumbledore, "that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all." (Order of Phoenix)





We know that this stuff is LOVE.

Obviously it must exist in that room in a very concentrated state. It is kept in a room that is locked at all times, as if it had the kind of destructive force of a nuclear bomb. The door doesn't even have a regular lock.

There isn't a whole lot of speculation about this on the board, so I thought I should bring it up.

How could LOVE be "more wonderful and more terrible" than death?

How could LOVE be "more wonderful and more terrible" than human intelligence?

How could LOVE be "more wonderful and more terrible" than forces of nature?

The "wonderful" half I can understand... but the "terrible" part? This is the part that makes it dangerous. This is the part that makes it useful as a weapon against Voldemort. This is why it is locked up.

How does this stuff work?

Inquiring minds want to know!




Have you not ever witnessed the destructive power when you (I don't mean you personally here, but you as in 'someone') loves something too much? The mother who overfeeds her children, the father who spoils his daughter, the obsessiveness of unrequited love...you can argue this last one isn't technically love as love requires a two way street if you will. But I believe that it is this manner in which Rowling refers to Love as destructive, ie not with malicious or evil intent.
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Madelia
Posts: 510
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries



Psychee wrote:

Madelia wrote:
Yes...hate is a very strong emotion...and Harry experiences many strong emotions.
He cares very strongly about what happens to Voldemort- and it's not a good thing.
You can't hate if you don't care... that is my view.

Which is why I think people throw the word around too much- if you hate someone, you are almost always thinking about them and what you can do to destroy them. It's the EXACT opposite to love.
In fact, in some cases hate and love are the same thing. *Not saying its the case here*

But...what I'm getting at is... if what Harry feels towards Voldemort isn't hate... I don't know what is.




In a way you have said this, but then got de-railed... Hate is not the opposite of love. The opposite of love is apathy.

In both hate and love, one is emotionally invested.

Message Edited by Psychee on 06-20-2007 05:14 PM



Very true... I believe I wasn't thinking as clearly about that... the opposite of both love and hate is apathy...lack of emotion. I think what I meant by "exact opposite", which I'm sure you understand what I was getting at, is that they are not necessarily opposites, just on completely different ends of the same spectrum of emotion. Apathy isn't on that spectrum, since it is void of any emotion. Hate and love are both the strongest feelings you can have, but they are so far away yet go hand in hand. I think I got out what I meant.


Sent a letter in the mail in braille to Johnny Quest
Send me back my Etch-a-Sketch!
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princesspotter
Posts: 61
Registered: ‎06-15-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

yeah, i dont think Harry has it in him to kill off Voldemort with the AK curse..
When he tried CRUCIO on bellatrix at the MOM, she told him, "You need to mean them Potter. You need to really want to cause pain- enjoy it-righteous anger wont hurt me for long."..
with that being said.I think the Love stuff in the Department of Mysteries will be the downfall of Voldemort.
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adribetty394
Posts: 100
Registered: ‎06-14-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

in the us cover MTV news pointed out that the battle seems to be wandless and that there's a curtain type thing..... Um... MoM ...the Veil.
Any thoughts?
~*~it's the unknow we fear when we look upon death and darkness~*~
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Dkrupp
Posts: 702
Registered: ‎02-01-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries


adribetty394 wrote:
in the us cover MTV news pointed out that the battle seems to be wandless and that there's a curtain type thing..... Um... MoM ...the Veil.
Any thoughts?



This may fit better on the "New Cover" thread found here:
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/bn/board/message?board.id=HarryPotter&thread.id=7410&jump=true

or a thread on "the Veil" found here:

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/bn/board/message?board.id=HarryPotter&thread.id=1634&jump=true
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Hermione4795
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Registered: ‎06-22-2007
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

wow... you're blowing my mind.
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Hermionefan112
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Re: The LOVE Stuff in the Dept. Of Mysteries

You see love is really really powerful people will do crazy things than it since you already know why its wonderful I won't say anything about that side but on the dreadful side well say someone (like You Know Who) killed someone you loved with all you're life when they get killed its like their taking a peice of you with them and it feels like you'll be complete again.But if that would happen then I'd just remembe r what Dumbledore says in POA. "Happiness can be found even in the darkest of times.Where all you need to do is turn on the lights"