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Psychee
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway



agnijay wrote:
I think thats cuz Voldy knew about it. But I'm talking about before the seventh book. When VOldy wasn't theoretically minister.

Message Edited by agnijay on 11-11-2007 06:19 PM




OK, then going back a few books, do you remember when Malfoy saw the disembodied head of Harry at Hogsmeade? At that point, he would have learned from Snape about the Invisibility cloak, and anything Draco learned would be passed onto his father. I think a large number of people knew about the cloak...
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Mollywobbles
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Right again, Psychee. I just read the line again, in King's Cross, and it says Dumbledore had intended for Snape to "end up" with the Elder Wand. Do you think Dumbledore intended for Harry to unite the hallows? He seems to imply it near the end of that chapter. "You are the worthy possessor of the hallows"...You are the true master of death." So, if Dumbledore thought Harry could become the master of death he would have had to conquer the wand in some way. If Snape had merely ended up with the Elder Wand, how would Harry become its master? Voldey takes the wand from Dumbledore's tomb, but isn't its master, by pure happenstance. Since Dumbledore had talked Snape into killing him, even though he was dying already, wouldn't that have made Snape the master of the elder wand if Draco hadn't gotten there first? I'm really confused now.



Psychee wrote:


Mollywobbles wrote:
Dumbledore said he intended for Snape to become the master of the elder wand, but that bit didn't work out according to plan. Still, if Snape had captured the Elder Wand, what was he supposed to do with it? For Harry to become the master of death, he would have had to have captured the wand from Snape, and have had the other hallows. Did Dumbledore feel a confrontation between Harry and Snape was inevitable? Did Dumbledore figure that Voldemort would get the wand from Snape, and then, in turn, face Harry? If so, did Dumbledore plan on sacrificing Snape to Voldey too in order to complete the transfer of the elder wand?




Dumbledore never actually intended for Snape to be the MASTER of the Elder Wand. Killing Dumbledore at Dumbledore's request would not have transferred the power of the wand to Snape, because it was not a defeat. The wand's extra power would die with Dumbledore. That part didn't work out, though, because prior to that point, Draco defeated Dumbledore.

Dumbledore only meant for Voldemort to believe that Snape had mastery of the wand.


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Mollywobbles
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Excellent! I love the idea of them living in an alternate dimension, only brought into clearer focus or crossing the boundary, when they are drawn closer by strong magic..like the mirror of Erised, or the Priori Incantatem, or the Stone. Nifty explanation.



Psychee wrote:

Mollywobbles wrote:
When Harry uses the resurection stone going into the forest, James, Lily, Lupin and Sirius immediately appear, and seem to know everything that is going on,right down to the fact that Harry was going in there to die. How did they know this? Did they have a pow wow with Dumbledore's spirit, who filled them in? Are we supposed to think that they had been watching over Harry all along and knew everything that was happening to him? I can maybe see this of Lily and James, following their deaths, but not Lupin and Sirius. I know these four aren't actually ghosts, Harry compares them more to the memory of Riddle that came out of the diary, but I can't think of a better word than ghost. When Sirius died, and then Lupin, did Lily and James meet up with them right away and catch up on old times? Still, nobody but Dumbledore knew the complete picture, unless ghosts just know things without being told.




I think of James et al as guardian angels, who overlook everything that is going on in Harry's life and have the omniscient knowledge of such spirits.

In addition, I think of them as living in an alternate dimension, but one that allows them to see everything that happens in our dimension.

The Resurrection Stone calls the spirits to be near the stone and allows the user to interact with those spirits while they remain in that alternate dimension.

While the Stone is being used, those spirits have to stay near the Stone, which is a kind of imprisonment if the spirit doesn't also desire to be there. In the case of James et al, they wanted to be with Harry to support him and they probably remained nearby throughout the battle even though he could no longer see them after he dropped the Stone. However, the Stone's power could be misused by others, trapping such spirits near the holder of the stone and preventing them from having a full Afterlife....


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Auror_in_Training
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

It was Snape, he found them right away and DD had already given them the low down on Snape and they had and hour for apologies, my question is why could no one else see them? I mean if they were resurected ??? in the childs story didn't she come back real just not real happy to be back.?





Mollywobbles wrote:
When Harry uses the resurection stone going into the forest, James, Lily, Lupin and Sirius immediately appear, and seem to know everything that is going on,right down to the fact that Harry was going in there to die. How did they know this? Did they have a pow wow with Dumbledore's spirit, who filled them in? Are we supposed to think that they had been watching over Harry all along and knew everything that was happening to him? I can maybe see this of Lily and James, following their deaths, but not Lupin and Sirius. I know these four aren't actually ghosts, Harry compares them more to the memory of Riddle that came out of the diary, but I can't think of a better word than ghost. When Sirius died, and then Lupin, did Lily and James meet up with them right away and catch up on old times? Still, nobody but Dumbledore knew the complete picture, unless ghosts just know things without being told.


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Auror_in_Training
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

I think that he could fire throught the cloak - just like he could see through the cloak












Mollywobbles wrote:
Last silly Saturday question, I think, and it's probably a pretty silly one.

When Harry is going into the forest to die, he does a Lumos under the cloak to look at the resurrection stone. He does it under the cloak so the death eaters won't see him before he is ready. So, the Lumos light doesn't escape from under the cloak. Yet after Harry comes to life again, he is firing various spells from under the cloak to protect the Hogwarts defenders-nobody sees him doing this. So was he firing THROUGH the cloak, or out from underneath it? In other words, if the Lumos light didn't get through the cloak, how did Harry's spells penetrate? If, of course, he was firing off the spells from UNDERNEATH the cloak, his wand, and probably his hand would have been visible-how come nobody noticed a disembodied hand and wand shooting off spells? Were they just too busy looking at the other action going on, and so, never noticed?


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Auror_in_Training
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Who is Florean Fortesque? Did she do something I should remember her about?



tigerlilly wrote:
Okay...maybe this is a dumb question, it may have been answered in the books and maybe I'm just forgetting. Wouldn't be the first time. I've asked it before, but I'm really curious now...What happened to Florean Fortesque? Are we supposed to assume he's dead? Am I missing or forgetting someting?


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Auror_in_Training
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

it seems like it was common knowledge that Harry had an invisiblity cloak, several times death eaters remind each other and various people mention - 'don't forget he's got an invisibility cloak' yadi yadi



agnijay wrote:
I'm just wondering, who KNEW about the cloak? Harry, Hermionie, Ron, Luna, Ginny (I think), Dumbledore, the Maurderers and Snape. Anyone else? Oh, and Mad Eye and Hagrid and Crouch JR.


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Psychee
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway



Mollywobbles wrote:
Right again, Psychee. I just read the line again, in King's Cross, and it says Dumbledore had intended for Snape to "end up" with the Elder Wand. Do you think Dumbledore intended for Harry to unite the hallows? He seems to imply it near the end of that chapter. "You are the worthy possessor of the hallows"...You are the true master of death." So, if Dumbledore thought Harry could become the master of death he would have had to conquer the wand in some way. If Snape had merely ended up with the Elder Wand, how would Harry become its master? Voldey takes the wand from Dumbledore's tomb, but isn't its master, by pure happenstance. Since Dumbledore had talked Snape into killing him, even though he was dying already, wouldn't that have made Snape the master of the elder wand if Draco hadn't gotten there first? I'm really confused now.






Snape's AK of Dumbledore at Dumbledore's request was not a "defeat" of Dumbledore, consequently, even if Draco had not entered into the picture mucking things up, Mastery of the wand would not have gone to Snape via that act. Dumbledore would have died undefeated, and since no one could then defeat the Master, he would have been its very last Master.

Dumbledore never intended for Harry to be Master of all three Hallows, as it was a fool's quest, and didn't lead to immortality as he had once thought. He always intended for the Elder wand's power to be neutralized at the time of his death. He DID want Harry to have use of the Stone to call his parents for emotional support as he walked to his death, though, and he knew that Harry already had the cloak. AND, he also wanted Harry to understand the power of the wand, as he knew that Voldemort would search for it. He needed to understand about the wand, but not seek it....
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Psychee
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway



Auror_in_Training wrote:
Who is Florean Fortesque? Did she do something I should remember her about?



tigerlilly wrote:
Okay...maybe this is a dumb question, it may have been answered in the books and maybe I'm just forgetting. Wouldn't be the first time. I've asked it before, but I'm really curious now...What happened to Florean Fortesque? Are we supposed to assume he's dead? Am I missing or forgetting someting?







Florean Fortescue, a wizard, owned an ice cream parlor in Diagon Alley. Florean knew quite a bit about medieval wizardry and helped Harry with his homework in PA when he was living at the Leaky Cauldron for a couple of weeks; he also gave him free ice cream sundaes.

His shop was found in shambles early in HBP, and he had disappeared. It was assumed that he had been attacked by DeathEaters, but no body was found on site and his whereabouts remained unknown.
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macross
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Here is a question. Waht happend to Fluers sister?
On a wing and a prayer.
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mrsronaldweasley
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Hi guys!
,wobbles! It was I who asked that question months ago about Charlie and his friends getting in.. I think it was on the errors thread.
Oh so now I understand how Sirius and buckbeak were able to fly away on POA without problems.

So now I have a new question, did mad eye always had that magical eye? Because if so I surely wouldn’t want to be near him as he can see through me!!! I will not have a man lay eyes (or eye for that matter) on me like that! Lol!

Mad eye to wife: don’t you hide anything from me, I can see right through you….
o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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Mollywobbles
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Sorry MrsRW, I knew I had seen that question somewhere, but couldn't find it when I went back to look for it.

I seem to remember in one of the pensieve memories-maybe the one where Barty Crouch Jr was on trial, or in that general area, that we see Mad Eye with two normal eyes, and most of his nose still intact. I wonder if he took his "eye" out when he went to bed..if, being as paranoid as he was, he ever slept. It would be kind of distracting when trying to sleep to have that eye zipping around.



mrsronaldweasley wrote:
Hi guys!
,wobbles! It was I who asked that question months ago about Charlie and his friends getting in.. I think it was on the errors thread.
Oh so now I understand how Sirius and buckbeak were able to fly away on POA without problems.

So now I have a new question, did mad eye always had that magical eye? Because if so I surely wouldn’t want to be near him as he can see through me!!! I will not have a man lay eyes (or eye for that matter) on me like that! Lol!

Mad eye to wife: don’t you hide anything from me, I can see right through you….


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Mollywobbles
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Interesting. So if Dumbledore had just died as a result of the curse on the horcrux ring, would that have counted as a "defeat" since the curse had been put on by Voldemort? If Grindelwald could become the master of the wand by mere theft, wouldn't a curse work too?





Psychee wrote:


Mollywobbles wrote:
Right again, Psychee. I just read the line again, in King's Cross, and it says Dumbledore had intended for Snape to "end up" with the Elder Wand. Do you think Dumbledore intended for Harry to unite the hallows? He seems to imply it near the end of that chapter. "You are the worthy possessor of the hallows"...You are the true master of death." So, if Dumbledore thought Harry could become the master of death he would have had to conquer the wand in some way. If Snape had merely ended up with the Elder Wand, how would Harry become its master? Voldey takes the wand from Dumbledore's tomb, but isn't its master, by pure happenstance. Since Dumbledore had talked Snape into killing him, even though he was dying already, wouldn't that have made Snape the master of the elder wand if Draco hadn't gotten there first? I'm really confused now.






Snape's AK of Dumbledore at Dumbledore's request was not a "defeat" of Dumbledore, consequently, even if Draco had not entered into the picture mucking things up, Mastery of the wand would not have gone to Snape via that act. Dumbledore would have died undefeated, and since no one could then defeat the Master, he would have been its very last Master.

Dumbledore never intended for Harry to be Master of all three Hallows, as it was a fool's quest, and didn't lead to immortality as he had once thought. He always intended for the Elder wand's power to be neutralized at the time of his death. He DID want Harry to have use of the Stone to call his parents for emotional support as he walked to his death, though, and he knew that Harry already had the cloak. AND, he also wanted Harry to understand the power of the wand, as he knew that Voldemort would search for it. He needed to understand about the wand, but not seek it....


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mrsronaldweasley
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Lol definitely ! I think he was born with a magical eye… and wasn’t it due to battle that his eye kept popping out? Poor kid. His mother probably scolded him all the time for pointing out things loudly to people who shouldn’t hear what he just said.
o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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Mollywobbles
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

He really was born with two normal eyes (the Pensieve chapter of GOF), it was later in the course of his auror duties that he got so banged up. But you reminded me of that funny bit in OOTP when the folks come to Privet Dr. to escort Harry to Grimmauld place. Moody's eye was all sticky after having been worn by Moody/Crouch, and Harry has to get him a glass of water to wash it off. Yech.



mrsronaldweasley wrote:
Lol definitely ! I think he was born with a magical eye… and wasn’t it due to battle that his eye kept popping out? Poor kid. His mother probably scolded him all the time for pointing out things loudly to people who shouldn’t hear what he just said.


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mrsronaldweasley
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Oh molly I love it when you’re on a cheerful mood.
Its really a wonder mad-eye’s fallen eye didn’t get squished !! iicckkk!!
o’~aNd I'm So Sad, LikE a GoOd BooK, I caN't PuT tHis Day BacK~’o
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Mollywobbles
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

LOL, well, it DOES happen occasionally, you know. I also thought it was kind of fitting, because I had to go to the Optometrist today form my magic eye checkup. Both orbs are spinning with 360 degree visibility now, mind you, I'm getting a little dizzy.



mrsronaldweasley wrote:
Oh molly I love it when you’re on a cheerful mood.
Its really a wonder mad-eye’s fallen eye didn’t get squished !! iicckkk!!


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Psychee
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway



Mollywobbles wrote:
Interesting. So if Dumbledore had just died as a result of the curse on the horcrux ring, would that have counted as a "defeat" since the curse had been put on by Voldemort? If Grindelwald could become the master of the wand by mere theft, wouldn't a curse work too?







The curse on the ring would not constitute a "defeat" of the right type -- it has to be a defeat involving wands.

Capturing a wizard's wand through theft IS a defeat of the right kind as a wizard feels impotent without his wand.

Now, if you poisoned the Master of the Elder Wand and stole the wand out from under him as he was dying, that would be a defeat, too. But, if you waited until he was dead to take his wand, you would not become the new Master of the Elder Wand because you waited too long to take it...
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Auror_in_Training
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

Now, if you poisoned the Master of the Elder Wand and stole the wand out from under him as he was dying, that would be a defeat, too. But, if you waited until he was dead to take his wand, you would not become the new Master of the Elder Wand because you waited too long to take it... -- Psychee


I don't think that is completely accurate Psychee, in the tales of beetle the bard the wand master was killed in his sleep and the guy took the wand and was master because he'd killed the first guy
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Auror_in_Training
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Re: Tiny questions that don't matter but I'm asking anyway

If DD had died as a result of the curse on the horcrux ring it would have been of his own doing, that curse wasn't intended for DD it was a random curse thrown out there for anyone who put the ring on. To defeat someone you have to intend to inflict defeat.






Mollywobbles wrote:
Interesting. So if Dumbledore had just died as a result of the curse on the horcrux ring, would that have counted as a "defeat" since the curse had been put on by Voldemort? If Grindelwald could become the master of the wand by mere theft, wouldn't a curse work too?





Psychee wrote:


Mollywobbles wrote:
Right again, Psychee. I just read the line again, in King's Cross, and it says Dumbledore had intended for Snape to "end up" with the Elder Wand. Do you think Dumbledore intended for Harry to unite the hallows? He seems to imply it near the end of that chapter. "You are the worthy possessor of the hallows"...You are the true master of death." So, if Dumbledore thought Harry could become the master of death he would have had to conquer the wand in some way. If Snape had merely ended up with the Elder Wand, how would Harry become its master? Voldey takes the wand from Dumbledore's tomb, but isn't its master, by pure happenstance. Since Dumbledore had talked Snape into killing him, even though he was dying already, wouldn't that have made Snape the master of the elder wand if Draco hadn't gotten there first? I'm really confused now.






Snape's AK of Dumbledore at Dumbledore's request was not a "defeat" of Dumbledore, consequently, even if Draco had not entered into the picture mucking things up, Mastery of the wand would not have gone to Snape via that act. Dumbledore would have died undefeated, and since no one could then defeat the Master, he would have been its very last Master.

Dumbledore never intended for Harry to be Master of all three Hallows, as it was a fool's quest, and didn't lead to immortality as he had once thought. He always intended for the Elder wand's power to be neutralized at the time of his death. He DID want Harry to have use of the Stone to call his parents for emotional support as he walked to his death, though, and he knew that Harry already had the cloak. AND, he also wanted Harry to understand the power of the wand, as he knew that Voldemort would search for it. He needed to understand about the wand, but not seek it....