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Rachel-K
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Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Understanding Voldemort

Dumbledore takes great pains to teach Harry all he knows and all he has been able to gather about Voldemort. If you look at the “Dark Lord” through Harry’s eyes and through Dumbledore’s--do they still see him differently?

What has Harry learned? Does he have everything he needs to face Voldemort?
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hpotterfan
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Registered: ‎05-26-2007
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Re: Understanding Voldemort



rkubie wrote:
Dumbledore takes great pains to teach Harry all he knows and all he has been able to gather about Voldemort. If you look at the “Dark Lord” through Harry’s eyes and through Dumbledore’s--do they still see him differently?

What has Harry learned? Does he have everything he needs to face Voldemort?





Dumbledore pitys Voldemort, but Harry's vision is clouded by anger and resentment, a prejudice. he doesn't see beyond the mask of Lord Voldemort like Dumbledore does. though he grew up in a way a lot like Voldemort, he still doesn't understand him.

i think Harry needs to learn to see past the outer shell on a life-long enemy before he'll be ready to defeat Voldemort. he's already done it at least once with Hermione, seeing past the know-it-all and into her heart
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Becs_Aunt
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Re: Understanding Voldemort

PotterFan Wrote:
Dumbledore pitys Voldemort, but Harry's vision is clouded by anger and resentment




I disagree. Harry is becoming old enough to understand complex human emotion. I think Harry may be confused at first, but DD is patient and explanatory. In the end Harry has a clearer sense of the wizard he must defeat. I am glad JKR gave us LV's backstory. It fleshes him out--a much more interesting character than a comic-book villian.

Bec and I spent some time discussing this sort of sociopath, how he is created and how there are people like that in real life. Trying to explain his childhood is hard, given that Bec leads a charmed and loved life. How do you really explain this sort of abuse to a kid like that?
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Psychee
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Re: Understanding Voldemort

Becs_Aunt, which character do you think was abused in childhood? Voldemort? If so, I think that Harry was much more abused.
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Nelsmom
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Re: Understanding Voldemort

There are different kinds of abuse; but it also makes a difference on wither that person sees it as abuse or not. While it is easy to say someone is being abused you can't really know unless you know all the facts. Also if that peson has not known anyother way to live they will not know they are being abused. Take it from a person that got out of an abusive situtation that it takes time to get any perspective about other people. I think Dumbledore was trying to give Harry that time and when he thought Harry was ready thought him about what Voldemort was like at school and when he was younger.

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Toni L. Chapman
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dcsbelle
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Re: Understanding Voldemort

In showing Harry what Tom Riddle's life was like as a child Dumbledore allows Harry to see him as a whole person rather than the one dimensional character of Lord Voldemort that he became. I think this will eventually factor into Harry's decision not to kill Voldy.
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Nelsmom wrote:
There are different kinds of abuse; but it also makes a difference on wither that person sees it as abuse or not. While it is easy to say someone is being abused you can't really know unless you know all the facts. Also if that peson has not known anyother way to live they will not know they are being abused. Take it from a person that got out of an abusive situtation that it takes time to get any perspective about other people. I think Dumbledore was trying to give Harry that time and when he thought Harry was ready thought him about what Voldemort was like at school and when he was younger.

Toni


Debbie

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Becs_Aunt
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Re: Understanding Voldemort

Some excellent posts while I was absent from the boards.

I don't mean to imply that Harry wasn't abused. While Harry was treated very badly at the Dursleys, he came though it relatively unscarred. It is a diferent matter for LV. Tom Riddle was unloved all his life. And, when he found a compassionate advisor, DD, he was already too old to change.

Some people have very bad childhoods and survive. Some do not. What is it in a person's chemical makeup that leads him/her to sociopathy? I don't know. But I think we can agree that if Tom Riddle had always lived in a loving home, he would not have become LV.

Thanks, dcsbelle, for the insight--that DD gives Harry a valuable tool--seeing LV as a boy and therefore seeing him as a whole person, not a characature. And this will factor in what Harry has to do in the end. However, I disagree. I am confident that Harry will have to kill LV. :smileywink:
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Ladybuglver8115
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Re: Understanding Voldemort

I never considered the fact that Harry would have LV in a position to kill him and not. Harry has been ready, if only in his mind, to kill LV from the first book. Now it is obvious to us that he couldn't really have killed him in the first book but the point is he thought he could. If Harry was going to see LV as a real person and end up not killing him I don't think that he would have acted the way that he did at the end of HBP, he actually says that he isn't going back to Hogwarts. You know that he must be serious about killing LV when he suggests this because as we see in the books Hogwarts is Harry's very favorite place in the world. The only place that can compare is The Burrow. I think Harry is very serious and will, if given the chance do all that he can to kill LV.
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Psychee
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Re: Understanding Voldemort


Becs_Aunt wrote:
But I think we can agree that if Tom Riddle had always lived in a loving home, he would not have become LV.




I wish that were absolutely true, because then as parents we would feel 100% sure that if we are loving and good parents, our kids won't turn out to be sociopaths.

Unfortunately, though, there is no 100% certainty about this. You could say that it would be less likely, even MUCH less likely that he would turn into LV, but the sad truth is that there are sociopaths / psychopaths / malignant narcissists who come from perfectly loving parents and those parents have done nothing wrong to create the monster that is their child. Sometimes, the parents are the child's first victims. It's really tragic...
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Jenny20
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Re: Understanding Voldemort



Becs_Aunt wrote:
Some people have very bad childhoods and survive. Some do not. What is it in a person's chemical makeup that leads him/her to sociopathy? I don't know. But I think we can agree that if Tom Riddle had always lived in a loving home, he would not have become LV.




I actually don't agree . . . the current view of the causes of psychopathic/antisocial behavior is that it is the combination of a person's life experiences, prenatal environment, and brain structure/genetics.That explains why some people with the abusive experiences don't become sociopaths.

It's possible that LV's body and brain are chemically predisposed to his sociopathy, and that no matter his environment, he would have turned out the same way. It just depends on your psychological viewpoint.
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Jenny20
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Re: Understanding Voldemort



Ladybuglver8115 wrote:
I never considered the fact that Harry would have LV in a position to kill him and not. Harry has been ready, if only in his mind, to kill LV from the first book. Now it is obvious to us that he couldn't really have killed him in the first book but the point is he thought he could. If Harry was going to see LV as a real person and end up not killing him I don't think that he would have acted the way that he did at the end of HBP, he actually says that he isn't going back to Hogwarts. You know that he must be serious about killing LV when he suggests this because as we see in the books Hogwarts is Harry's very favorite place in the world. The only place that can compare is The Burrow. I think Harry is very serious and will, if given the chance do all that he can to kill LV.




It would make sense that Harry would, when given the chance, spare LV's life in favor of another form of punishment worse than death . . . for the holders of the Harry-as-a-Horocrux theory, it would represent the ultimate vanquishing of LV's soul that resides in Harry, or more figuratively, the triumph of love over evil and hate.

Although, personally, I have to say that after all he's done, if anyone deserves to die it's LV.