Chamber of Secrets, Chapts 14-18

[Rachel-K]

Let's start our discussion of the concluding chapters, from fourteen, "Cornelius Fudge," through eighteen, "Dobby's reward."

[jftapia88]

ok, how come if they knew that it was lucius malfoy who gave ginny the diary why didnt they arrest him right then?? *****spoiler***** why wait till the OoP?

oh and why wasnt he put into azkaban right after voldemort lost his power? he just about admits to being a death eater. he doesnt even deny that he gave ginny the diary.

anyway, i have been waiting on a thread to discuss the book as a whole mainly because ive already finished my re-read.

omg i just realized, when harry was telling DD what happened he told him about going to see aragog right? well how did he explain how he found out to follow the spiders i know DD is the one who gave harry the invisabilty cloak, but mr n mrs weasley were standig in the room too, so was prof. mcgonagall. im pretty sure that they r not all supposed to know about it. of course it does also say that DD looked right where harry n ron were standing under the clok in hagrids hut. so why even bother telling DD about that part when harry knew that he knew they were there? how was he able to tell them evrything without getting the cloak confiscated?

did they tell evrybody that lockhart was a fake or just that the wand backfired on him, werent they suspicious about why he was trying to perform a memory charm on harry n ron in the first place? i think its kinda funny in OoP when the see lockhart in the hospital, cuz he still wants to sign anything that will bw still long enough.

[RebelsLGB]

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jftapia88 wrote:
ok, how come if they knew that it was lucius malfoy who gave ginny the diary why didnt they arrest him right then?? *****spoiler***** why wait till the OoP?

oh and why wasnt he put into azkaban right after voldemort lost his power? he just about admits to being a death eater. he doesnt even deny that he gave ginny the diary.

anyway, i have been waiting on a thread to discuss the book as a whole mainly because ive already finished my re-read.

omg i just realized, when harry was telling DD what happened he told him about going to see aragog right? well how did he explain how he found out to follow the spiders i know DD is the one who gave harry the invisabilty cloak, but mr n mrs weasley were standig in the room too, so was prof. mcgonagall. im pretty sure that they r not all supposed to know about it. of course it does also say that DD looked right where harry n ron were standing under the clok in hagrids hut. so why even bother telling DD about that part when harry knew that he knew they were there? how was he able to tell them evrything without getting the cloak confiscated?

did they tell evrybody that lockhart was a fake or just that the wand backfired on him, werent they suspicious about why he was trying to perform a memory charm on harry n ron in the first place? i think its kinda funny in OoP when the see lockhart in the hospital, cuz he still wants to sign anything that will bw still long enough.

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Lucius would have surely said he didn't know it was LV's that he didn't know Tom Riddle was in fact LV...etc....etc. Lets not forget, as we see in future books, that he gets away with a lot because he donates a lot of money to the ministry.

as for the cloak...you answered your own question. Dumbledore knows about the cloak already, and surely mcgonagall and the weasleys...if they found out about it, wouldn't go behind Dumbledores back and take it away. If Dumbledore says harry can have it...then he can have it. I also think that Dumbledore knew that Lockhart was a fake. I think he probably has a hard time finding teachers to take the position, and lockhart was the only applicant for the job (besides snape of course).


One question that I have about the end of the book...How come Harry's scar doesn't hurt while face to face with Tom Riddle in the COS?

*SPOILER*


We know from the future books that the diary was a horcrux, and so that the Tom Riddle we see in COS is actually a piece of LV's soul. in the 1st book Harry's scar hurts when he comes face to face with the piece of LV's soul that is living in Quirrels body. and in GOF his scar hurts in the graveyard before LV comes back to power...so why not this time?

[Nadine]

One question that I have about the end of the book...How come Harry's scar doesn't hurt while face to face with Tom Riddle in the COS?

---------------------------------

Maybe the scar doesn't work because Tom Riddle isn't quite "real" yet or he isn't the transformed Voldemort. Don't forget Riddle existed before Voldemort split his soul and tried to kill Harry. Whatever transpired at Godric's Hollow that Halloween night, caused something that effected Voldemort FROM Harry as well as possibly the other way around. Tom Riddle was before this event.

Nadine

[patz12gal]

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Nadine wrote:
One question that I have about the end of the book...How come Harry's scar doesn't hurt while face to face with Tom Riddle in the COS?

---------------------------------

Maybe the scar doesn't work because Tom Riddle isn't quite "real" yet or he isn't the transformed Voldemort. Don't forget Riddle existed before Voldemort split his soul and tried to kill Harry. Whatever transpired at Godric's Hollow that Halloween night, caused something that effected Voldemort FROM Harry as well as possibly the other way around. Tom Riddle was before this event.

Nadine

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Also, maybe Harry's scar only hurts in connection to Voldemort directly, not horcruxes or things that are pieces of LV. In SS when it hurts, it's during his fight with Quirrel, who has the real LV (or a weaker/less powerful version of LV) feeding off his body. And in GoF, when it hurts, it's in the graveyard-the same graveyard that LV is just inside the house near. Plus, in future books, his scar hurts only when he's seeing LV's thoughts, or near him, etc. It could just be that the scar is only effected in regards to LV's present form...not a memory.

[jftapia88]

i think it may have something to do with the fact that tom, is before voldys attack on harry, so tom really, i think, shouldnt have much effect on harry except to give him the creeps i guess.

[feenix]

I always wondered why after sort of proving that Hagrid hadn't opened the chamber of secrets that they would do something about his having been expelled and "not allowed" to do magic. We all know he does now and then, but wouldn't it be nice for Hagrid to not have to hide it and maybe take night classes and graduate. Alright that was a small joke, but seriously.

[MsJinx]

feenix wrote: I always wondered why after sort of proving that Hagrid hadn't opened the chamber of secrets that they would do something about his having been expelled and "not allowed" to do magic. We all know he does now and then, but wouldn't it be nice for Hagrid to not have to hide it and maybe take night classes and graduate. Alright that was a small joke, but seriously.

-----------------------

Something does happen to Hagrid in POA, regarding his job, that is probably a result of being proven innocent.

Ms Jinx

[Jhuygut]

There is also a bias against Hagrid based on his ancestory which would probably make it harder for him to get reinstated. Remember most wizards are snobs.

[dcsbelle]

I don't know if most wizards are snobs. Indeed some are and they play a big part in these books but like the real world, I think they're in the minority.

[lacalladita]

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jftapia88 wrote:
ok, how come if they knew that it was lucius malfoy who gave ginny the diary why didnt they arrest him right then?? *****spoiler***** why wait till the OoP?

oh and why wasnt he put into azkaban right after voldemort lost his power? he just about admits to being a death eater. he doesnt even deny that he gave ginny the diary.

anyway, i have been waiting on a thread to discuss the book as a whole mainly because ive already finished my re-read.

omg i just realized, when harry was telling DD what happened he told him about going to see aragog right? well how did he explain how he found out to follow the spiders i know DD is the one who gave harry the invisabilty cloak, but mr n mrs weasley were standig in the room too, so was prof. mcgonagall. im pretty sure that they r not all supposed to know about it. of course it does also say that DD looked right where harry n ron were standing under the clok in hagrids hut. so why even bother telling DD about that part when harry knew that he knew they were there? how was he able to tell them evrything without getting the cloak confiscated?

did they tell evrybody that lockhart was a fake or just that the wand backfired on him, werent they suspicious about why he was trying to perform a memory charm on harry n ron in the first place? i think its kinda funny in OoP when the see lockhart in the hospital, cuz he still wants to sign anything that will bw still long enough.

---

Lucius wasn't arrested after Voldemort lost his powers because he probably said he was in a trance-like state and wasn't responsible for the actions he committed. Ron told Harry in SS on pg. 110 (paperback), "They were some of the first to come back to our side after You-Know-Who disappeared. Said they'd been bewitched..."

He doesn't get arrested at the end of COS because there is no proof to send him away plus he has friends in high places and lots of money. Dumbledore mentions that it is not possible to prove that Lucius was the one who gave the diary to Ginny since the diary is destroyed and all memories of Riddle was gone (pg. 336, paperback).

[lacalladita]

The following are things that I have noticed while reading the selected chapters that I want to point out or I am still scratching my head on. All page numbers are from the paperback edition of the book.

*There may be spoilers ahead*

1. When Harry and Ron were sneaking out the castle under the invisibility cloak, Ron stubbed his toe and swore. But, no one heard him swear cause at the same time Snape sneezed (pg. 259). Coincidence? I think not!

2. Snape didn't say anything to Harry regarding Hermione's absence (pg. 267). Did he do it cause he felt bad and that he didn't want to make things worse for Harry by being mean to him?

3. Ron asked Harry if there were werewolves in the forest (pg. 269). In SS, Draco said the same thing right before his dentention with Hagrid. Is this leading somewhere?

4. Aragog is blind (pg. 276). Is this significant?

5. Snape gripped the back of a chair in the teacher's lounge when he learned Ginny was taken (pg. 293). Seems to me he is mad.

6. McGonagall told the other teachers in the lounge "This is the end of Hogwarts. Dumbledore always said..." (pg. 293). What? What did Dumbledore always say? I wanna know...

7. Moaning Myrtle said she haunted Olive Hornby and "was sorry she'd ever laughed at my glasses" (pg. 299). Curious to know what Myrtle di to Olive.

8. Harry heard himself hissing for the first time when he opened the entrance to the COS in Moaning Myrtle's bathroom (pg. 300). How come he didn't hear himself hissing when he spoke to the snake at the zoo in SS and during the dueling club?

9. Riddle had an "odd red gleam in his hungry eyes..." (pg. 313). The red eyes of Voldemort.

10. Fawked squeezed Harry's shoulder gently with its claws (pg. 315). Was this really Fawkes? It just seems to me something a person would do and not a bird.

11. Harry could sense the basilisk coming (pg. 318). Would this come in handy later on?

12. Dumbledore tells Lockhart "Impaled upon your own sword, Gilderoy!" when he is told of the memory charm backfiring on him (pg. 331). Dumbledore knew that Lockhart has done memory charms before. But, why keep it quiet.

13. Dobby threatened Lucius not to hurt Harry and he backed down and left Hogwarts (pg. 338). What kind of powers does Dobby have for Lucius to back down?

[Roxie16]

SPOILER*

In reply to RebelsLGB who writes:
"We know from the future books that the diary was a horcrux, and so that the Tom Riddle we see in COS is actually a piece of LV's soul. in the 1st book Harry's scar hurts when he comes face to face with the piece of LV's soul that is living in Quirrels body. and in GOF his scar hurts in the graveyard before LV comes back to power...so why not this time?"

SPOILER*

I don't think the diary is a horcrux. Riddle created the diary and stored his memory in it, not part of his soul. It was created long before he became LV.

[Roxie16]

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feenix wrote:
I always wondered why after sort of proving that Hagrid hadn't opened the chamber of secrets that they would do something about his having been expelled and "not allowed" to do magic. We all know he does now and then, but wouldn't it be nice for Hagrid to not have to hide it and maybe take night classes and graduate. Alright that was a small joke, but seriously.

---

SPOILERS!!!

I agree! That should have vindicated Hagrid. When the teachers learned the basilisk was the monster, not Aragog, that means Hagrid was only guilty of keeping a somewhat dangerous pet at school. It didn't hurt anyone. They should give Hagrid his wand back.

[patz12gal]

In response to

***SPOILER***
"I don't think the diary is a horcrux. Riddle created the diary and stored his memory in it, not part of his soul. It was created long before he became LV."

I disagree and believe the diary was a horcrux. Although we know that Riddle owned and wrote in the diary as a student at Hogwarts, on page 312 (CoS) he tells Harry he decided to preseve his 16-year-old self in the diary so that someone in the future could help finish the work as the Heir of Slytherin.

While Riddle wasn't LV at the time of the diary being used to the time Riddle decided to preserve his memory, he had the diary in his posession the whole time until he gave it to Lucius Malfoy. Riddle doesn't even know how to create Horcruxes until his later years when he learns more about them from Slughorn.

And we know that LV gave Lucius the diary "...years ago, when he was sure he could create more Horcruxes..." meaing the diary was only released from LV's possession once he knew it wouldn't be the only Horcrux. It also makes sense, as Dumbledore explains, since the diary is proof LV is the Heir of Slytherin..it would make sennse for him to feel the diary was important enough to convert into a Horcrux. \

I definitely think the diary was a Horcrux

[patz12gal]

And also, Riddle didn't create the diary, he bought it and used it just as one would use a diary to store information in. He first stored his memory in it...then later a piece of his soul once he knew how.

Roxie16 wrote:

I don't think the diary is a horcrux. Riddle created the diary and stored his memory in it, not part of his soul. It was created long before he became LV.

[DoriBluefish]

Some discussion was made about socks, and their significance. Does anyone find it interesting that:
**possible spoiler, if you haven't finished CoS yeat!!**

Dobby recieves a sock as the article of clothing that frees him?

[jftapia88]

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DoriBluefish wrote:
Some discussion was made about socks, and their significance. Does anyone find it interesting that:
**possible spoiler, if you haven't finished CoS yeat!!**

Dobby recieves a sock as the article of clothing that frees him?

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socks, hmmm..... dobby falls in love with socks later on, and doesnt know that they are supposed to match, that is about all i can give you. sorry.

[PrincessOrual]

*odd spoiler*

So far my favorite socks are the ones that Harry, Ron and Hermione purchase for Dobby that scream when they get too stinky. Now THAT's a great invention.

[jftapia88]

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PrincessOrual wrote:
*odd spoiler*

So far my favorite socks are the ones that Harry, Ron and Hermione purchase for Dobby that scream when they get too stinky. Now THAT's a great invention.

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yea i knwo what you mean i know somebody who could use a pair of those. but i also think that it is kind of, ironic i guess(?), that dobby's favorite article of clothing is the same as what freed him, of course that could be why they are his favorite.