Goblet of Fire, Chapters 1-9

[Rachel-K]

Please use this space to begin discussions of Goblet of Fire from the opening chapter, The Riddle House, through the end of chapter nine, The Dark Mark.

[dedaviswright]

After re-reading chapter 1, something wierd dawned on me. Voldermort calls Peter Pettigrew "Wormtail". This is a nickname made up between James, Lupin, and Sirius. Why would Voldermort refer to him in this manner? And how would he know Peter's nickname and not refer to the other Mauders by theirs? Can anyone shed light on this?

[dedaviswright]

In Chapter 2, The Scar, Harry has the dream about the murder of Frank Bryce. On page 17 (hardback), Harry is recalling the dream and the book states, "...There had been a snake on a hearth rug...a small man called Peter, nicknamed Wormtail..." Harry shows no recollection of Peter Pettigrew. He had to know and recognize that Peter had gone back to Voldermort (Trawlneys sp? last predicion)yet Harry doesn't not act as though this matters, or he is not getting it. What are your opinions?

[b-a]

It might be because LV wants to remind Pettigrew of his betrayal and thus calls him Wormtail to reinforce the fact that LV is the only person he can turn to now. It dehumanizes Pettigrew also. Just some ideas...

---

dedaviswright wrote:
After re-reading chapter 1, something wierd dawned on me. Voldermort calls Peter Pettigrew "Wormtail". This is a nickname made up between James, Lupin, and Sirius. Why would Voldermort refer to him in this manner? And how would he know Peter's nickname and not refer to the other Mauders by theirs? Can anyone shed light on this?

---

[Nelsmom]

I think that in the early chapters of Goblet of Fire Harry doesn't relize that what is in his dreams is really happening and that it is not until Professor Dumbledor has him take Occlamancy lessons from Professor Snipes that it becomes real for him. Others act or I should say react to them as real because they have more knowledge than Harry. Even with everything that has happened he is still very naive.

Toni

[alice78]

---

dedaviswright wrote:
In Chapter 2, The Scar, Harry has the dream about the murder of Frank Bryce. On page 17 (hardback), Harry is recalling the dream and the book states, "...There had been a snake on a hearth rug...a small man called Peter, nicknamed Wormtail..." Harry shows no recollection of Peter Pettigrew. He had to know and recognize that Peter had gone back to Voldermort (Trawlneys sp? last predicion)yet Harry doesn't not act as though this matters, or he is not getting it. What are your opinions?

---

Yes, Harry would remember Peter, he had saved his life in PoA.
Harry dreamt that Peter and Lord Voldermort had been "talking about someone they had killed, though Harry could not remember the name" That would have been Bertha Jerkins. It was Bertha's name that Harry couldn't remember, not Peter's name.

Hope that helps.

[dedaviswright]

SPOILER ALERT:

Thank you for your support. This situation with Pettigrew was bothering me.

I also have another question, I hope someone can answer. When did the Dark Mark begin to appear in "Potter" history? Was it over the Potter's house the night Harry's parents died. I believed the Dark Mark is used to denote that someone has been killed. Was this after LV created the deatheaters? And when were they created? I read where he had developed a group of students as cronies that become his followers. When did the "group" become the evil ones that performed such dark magic?

[dedaviswright]

---

rkubie wrote:
Please use this space to begin discussions of Goblet of Fire from the opening chapter, The Riddle House, through the end of chapter nine, The Dark Mark.

---

Obviously these chapters have given me a lot of questions I need to have answered.

On page 146, Molly is sooooo worried about the fate of her husband, children, Harry and Hermoine. WHY? She has that clock, and it isn't mentioned until a few pages later. She knew they were not dead, and on their way home from the clock. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

[Bookladt]

---

dedaviswright wrote:

---

rkubie wrote:
Please use this space to begin discussions of Goblet of Fire from the opening chapter, The Riddle House, through the end of chapter nine, The Dark Mark.

---

Obviously these chapters have given me a lot of questions I need to have answered.

On page 146, Molly is sooooo worried about the fate of her husband, children, Harry and Hermoine. WHY? She has that clock, and it isn't mentioned until a few pages later. She knew they were not dead, and on their way home from the clock. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

---

Molly wasn't so worried about her family at that moment but worried about their futures Two of her brothers were killed the first time Voldemort was in power and she knew that the odds were her family, as large as it is, would not make it through intact. Besides the clock has taken to staying at "in mortal danger" unless it showed Mr. Weasly traveling. That wasn't very reassuring for a woman who cared so much about her family.

[maggie21]

I believe that the first time we hear about the dark mark is in GOF,after it is cast at the QWC,Mr.Weasley tells the group that when LV was powerful last time,it was cast when he and fis death eaters had murdered.They cast it over the house or dwelliings of the victims. SPOILER: DD tells Harry in HBP,that Tom Riddle(LV)and his friend's,DD calls them that for lack of another term,for he does'nt believe LV needed or wanted any friends,that they later became his first death eaters. The dark mark probably did appear over the Potter's house the nite they were murdered,but was not mentioned at that time,to us the reader,anyway.Hope this helps.

[Potterfan]

I have also noticed Voldemort referring to Pettigrew as "Wormtail" and wondered at it, though the only place I recall the name being actively used by the Marauders themselves was in the Marauder's Map. Perhaps when Voldemort used Legilimens on Pettigrew and found out the name that way. Not a satisfying answer, but the only one I can think of.

[Potterfan]

We would have no way of knowing if the Dark Mark appeared in Godric Hollow the night the Potters died. We know that althought the Mark is supposed to signifiy that someone has been killed - in at least one case in HBP, it was set above Hogwarts without a murder, initially. We don't know if Voldemort was alone at Godric Hollow, and if he did set the mark, he would have had to have done it before he tried to kill Harry. After the Aveda Kedavra curse rebounded on him, he would have been too weak.

[jftapia88]

hmmm... i wonder if voldemort actually puts up the mark after he has killed somebody, or if its just the death eaters, u know. i personally cant see him throwing it up himself, i think that maybe only the death eaters do it, so that who ever finds the bodies will know that it was them who did it. idk, it just seems so unlike voldemort to be so obvious that its him that killed sombody, it makes more sense for somebody else to have done it and thrown up the dark mark to show that it was done in approval of voldemort and to throw off suspision from who really killed them.

[Wrighty]

I didn't catch this before and I won't spoil it for anyone who is reading this for the first time but there is a funny quote on pg 11 GOF. Voldemort is talking to Wormtail and telling him that he could be helpful to him.

"I will allow you to perform an essential task for me, one that many of my followers would give their right hands to perform..."

JKR is pretty funny in a sly kind of way. (It will make sense later if it doesn't now.)

[Bookladt]

---

Wrighty wrote:
I didn't catch this before and I won't spoil it for anyone who is reading this for the first time but there is a funny quote on pg 11 GOF. Voldemort is talking to Wormtail and telling him that he could be helpful to him.

"I will allow you to perform an essential task for me, one that many of my followers would give their right hands to perform..."

JKR is pretty funny in a sly kind of way. (It will make sense later if it doesn't now.)

---

Ahhhhhh you noticed that too!!

[StoryMing]

One thing I've been wanting to know for a while concerning the Quiddich World Cup:

During the match, Seeker Aidan Lynch, gets plowed (for the second time during the game). This is sandwiched right between 2 incidents which remind us EXACTLY what the effects of a memory charm look like. Now, go back and read the account of the accident again.

What I want to know is, who might have obliviated the Irish Seeker-- and WHY???

Message Edited by StoryMing on 04-19-200707:32 PM

[StoryMing]

BTW about "Wormtail";
I always imagined Pettigrew told Voldemort about the nickname himself, possibly even about all the Maurauders; He was working for him, after all. He had no scruples about betraying his friends' lives, why not their nicknames? Plus, Voldmort is neither an easy nor a safe person to try to keep secrets from- and Wormtail is evidently rather a coward.

[emokid]

---

dedaviswright wrote:

---

rkubie wrote:
Please use this space to begin discussions of Goblet of Fire from the opening chapter, The Riddle House, through the end of chapter nine, The Dark Mark.

---

Obviously these chapters have given me a lot of questions I need to have answered.

On page 146, Molly is sooooo worried about the fate of her husband, children, Harry and Hermoine. WHY? She has that clock, and it isn't mentioned until a few pages later. She knew they were not dead, and on their way home from the clock. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

---

She knew they were alve but the clock doesn't tell her if they're injure or not

So she may have been worried about serious injures even if she knew they were coming home.

[pstar2649]

Something struck me as I was re-reading GOF yet again and I'd like to get your thoughts to see if maybe I'm missing something. In chapter one Wormtail and Voldemort are discussing the "plan" here is what follows (any parentheses are mine):

GOF softcover pg.10: "My Lord, I must speak!", said Wormtail, panic in his voice now."All through our journey I have gone over the plan in my head-My Lord, Bertha Jorkin's murder will not go unnoticed for long, and if we proceed, if I murder-" (note that because Voldemort will interrupt he never actually says who he will murder)

"If?"whispered the second voice."If? If you follow the plan
, Wormtail, the ministry need never know that anyone else has died. You will do it quietly and without fuss; I only wish that I could do it myself, but in my present condition...Come, Wormtail, one more death and our path to Harry Potter is clear. I am not asking you to do it alone. By that time, my faithful servant will have rejoined us-"
(Okay, a couple of points here, we still don't know exactly who is being murdered but I think we can rule out a few people based on this conversation- it can't be Harry because the death will "clear the path to Harry"; it can't be Moody because they need him to keep making the polyjuice potion right? and it can't be Crouch senior because A) the plan involved keeping him under the imperious curse and B) he would be difficult to murder without the ministry knowing anyone else has died. Plus, he is eventually murdered by his son because he had thrown off the curse so it wasn't really planned -more a crime of opportunity.)

GoF pg.12 "one more murder...my faithful servant at Hogwarts...Harry Potter is as good as mine Wormtail."
(Again, we never hear who is being murdered)

GoF pg.17 ch.2: (from Harry's point of viw) Voldemort and Wormtail had been talking about someone they had killed, though Harry could not remember the name...and they had been plotting to kill someone else...him!

(Actually in that conversation they never plotted to kill Harry, use him yes-kill him no, the plan was to kill someone else so the path to Harry was clear. Because Voldemort does try to kill Harry at the end of the book and because we have Harry thinking V is talking about him we forget this earlier conversation.)

So, my questions are- who are they talking about, did they succeed (my thought is that they must have for the "plan" to get as far as it did) and who is it? For the life of me I can't remember another death in the book that would fit the bill and would we, the readers even know about it, given that it was to be quietly, noone need ever know etc...since the books are from Harry's point of view? Please give me your thoughts on this.