Order of the Phoenix, Chapters 31-38 [ Edited ]

[Rachel-K]

Please use this space to discuss OOP from chapter 31, "O.W.L.s," through the last chapter, "The Second War Begins."

Message Edited by rkubie on 04-30-200702:22 PM

[3Liesl69]

Is anybody else feeling heartbroken that Sirius Black is dead, just as he and Harry were getting to know and love each other as a godfather and godson should?

[dcsbelle]

Absolutely! Every time I read that part my heart aches for Harry and I get so mad at Sirius for being so arrogant and rash. He never really believed anything would happen to him and thus took too many risks with his safety. If only he could have realized how much his presence in Harry's life meant to him and what a critical relationship he filled then maybe he would have been more content to stay out of the action.
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3Liesl69 wrote:
Is anybody else feeling heartbroken that Sirius Black is dead, just as he and Harry were getting to know and love each other as a godfather and godson should?

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Message Edited by dcsbelle on 05-31-200703:00 PM

[jftapia88]

DONT U DARE BLAME SIRIUS!!! it wasnt his fault bellatrix was a huge cow!

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dcsbelle wrote:
Absolutely! Every time I read that part my heart aches for Harry and I get so mad at Sirius for being so arrogant and rash. He never really believed anything would happen to him and thus took too many risks with his safety. If only he could have realized how much his presence in Harry's life meant to him and what a critical relationship he filled then maybe he would have been more content to stay out of the action.
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3Liesl69 wrote:
Is anybody else feeling heartbroken that Sirius Black is dead, just as he and Harry were getting to know and love each other as a godfather and godson should?

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Message Edited by dcsbelle on 05-31-200703:00 PM

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[dcsbelle]

Oops! I see I struck a nerve, Julie. I like Sirius, too and spending all those years in Azkaban didn't help his emotional maturity any but I have to stand by my post. Snape knew oh so well how to goad him and it worked every time.
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jftapia88 wrote:
DONT U DARE BLAME SIRIUS!!! it wasnt his fault bellatrix was a huge cow!

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dcsbelle wrote:
Absolutely! Every time I read that part my heart aches for Harry and I get so mad at Sirius for being so arrogant and rash. He never really believed anything would happen to him and thus took too many risks with his safety. If only he could have realized how much his presence in Harry's life meant to him and what a critical relationship he filled then maybe he would have been more content to stay out of the action.
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3Liesl69 wrote:
Is anybody else feeling heartbroken that Sirius Black is dead, just as he and Harry were getting to know and love each other as a godfather and godson should?

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Message Edited by dcsbelle on 05-31-200703:00 PM

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[jftapia88]

yeah well snape was no saint!! so i would appreciate it we didnt bad mouth the dead!

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dcsbelle wrote:
Oops! I see I struck a nerve, Julie. I like Sirius, too and spending all those years in Azkaban didn't help his emotional maturity any but I have to stand by my post. Snape knew oh so well how to goad him and it worked every time.
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jftapia88 wrote:
DONT U DARE BLAME SIRIUS!!! it wasnt his fault bellatrix was a huge cow!

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dcsbelle wrote:
Absolutely! Every time I read that part my heart aches for Harry and I get so mad at Sirius for being so arrogant and rash. He never really believed anything would happen to him and thus took too many risks with his safety. If only he could have realized how much his presence in Harry's life meant to him and what a critical relationship he filled then maybe he would have been more content to stay out of the action.
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3Liesl69 wrote:
Is anybody else feeling heartbroken that Sirius Black is dead, just as he and Harry were getting to know and love each other as a godfather and godson should?

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Message Edited by dcsbelle on 05-31-200703:00 PM

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[Psychee]

Sirius might have taken too many risks with his safety as far as staying out of the hands of the MOM, but does anyone really think that a loving godfather would stay home when his godson had been lured to the MOM by Voldemort?

What else could he do under those circumstances? Would you really respect him more if he had stayed home and let others fight for him, not knowing how many Death Eaters might be there? If Harry had been killed by Voldemort while he stayed home do you think he would ever be able to forgive himself? If Lupin, Tonks, Mad-Eye and others had been killed while he stayed safely at home would he ever be able to forgive himself?

Harry refused to use the 2-way mirror as a way to protect Sirius. Had he used it, he would have known not to go to the MOM. Then, he went to the MOM to protect Sirius.

Sirius gave Harry the mirror as a way to protect Harry. He went to the MOM to protect Harry.

And Dumbledore didn't tell Harry about Voldemort's potential use of him to protect Harry as well.

Each of these three people did their part to bring Sirius to the MOM which in turn led to the tragic end, thanks to Bella. What we see here is that everyone cared so much about each other's safety that a person died in the process.

Blame Bella. Blame Voldemort. But don't blame Sirius for trying to save Harry. His actions that night weren't "arrogant". It was the only thing that a person of conscience could do under the circumstances.

[dcsbelle]

I have no problem with Sirius going to the MoM to rescue Harry; who wouldn't come to the aid of a loved one? It was his cockiness and his propensity for rash actions that eventually did him in. `

[Psychee]

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dcsbelle wrote:
I have no problem with Sirius going to the MoM to rescue Harry; who wouldn't come to the aid of a loved one? It was his cockiness and his propensity for rash actions that eventually did him in. `

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Do you mean the way he fought with his evil cousin Bella?

[jftapia88]

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Psychee wrote:

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dcsbelle wrote:
I have no problem with Sirius going to the MoM to rescue Harry; who wouldn't come to the aid of a loved one? It was his cockiness and his propensity for rash actions that eventually did him in. `

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Do you mean the way he fought with his evil cousin Bella?

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i think bella cheated anyway, so it doesnt matter that he was being "cocky", that is after all one of the reasons i love sirius because hes cocky!

[dcsbelle]

I mean he ended his life the way he lived it. He was certainly brave but loved danger too much. If he had stayed at the house a few more minutes until DD arrived he could have explained where the rest of the Order was in a few sentences rather than making DD pull it out of Kreacher and losing precious time in the process. If DD had gotten there earlier the DE's would have fled sooner and possibly no one would have gotten killed. There were many well trained members of the Order there in the meanwhile to do the fighting, but only Sirius could be his Godfather.

Of course he wanted to go to Harry, who wouldn't? What parent wouldn't want to go after someone who harmed their child but they can't. We send in law enforcement for that. Nor do we let them sit on the jury when the accused comes to trial.

I know most of us cried when Sirius died but what breaks my heart every time I read this book is Harry's desolation and loneliness following his realization that Sirius was gone forever.

I don't mind if anyone disagrees with me but this is how I feel. Just call me Luna and steal all my belongings as a joke!
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Psychee wrote:

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dcsbelle wrote:
I have no problem with Sirius going to the MoM to rescue Harry; who wouldn't come to the aid of a loved one? It was his cockiness and his propensity for rash actions that eventually did him in. `

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Do you mean the way he fought with his evthe way he il cousin Bella?

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[Psychee]

If the situation we were talking about was that Sirius got caught by the Ministry and had his soul sucked out because he insisted on seeing Harry off on the train, I'd be right in line with you blaming Harry's loss on Sirius for foolhardiness.

But I think this particular situation is very different than that.

I don't think he rushed to the MOM because he loved danger and was being irresponsible... I think he rushed because Harry was in danger and he saw that as his personal responsibility.

He ordered Kreacher to tell Dumbledore the facts. Dumbledore spent the time getting additional information out of Kreacher that Sirius had not been aware of at all. Sirius could not have given Dumbledore that information (going to the Malfoys, telling them that Harry loved Sirius, etc.), so I don't think Sirius' absence from the house at that point delayed Dumbledore from getting to the MOM... in fact, had Sirius been in the house when all that came out, he might have been delayed even further, by needing to prevent Sirius from killing Kreacher in a rage...

But we don't have to agree on this... we just see it differently!

[dcsbelle]

Absolutely! And since I still believe that children are best served by parents who live for them I am done with OoP and on to HBP!
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Psychee wrote:
But we don't have to agree on this... we just see it differently!

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[3Liesl69]

Everybody, thank you very much for all your replies to my question about Sirius Black. I am really looking forward to going on to read "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" along with all of you. It is the only Harry Potter book that I have not read yet, well, besides "Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows," of course.

I am also looking forward to seeing the film of "Harry Potter and the Order Of The Phoenix" come July. Are you?

Happy Harry reading!

[lrdieter]

I think Sirius is my fav character, besides the twins!, and I loved him bc he was impulsive and cocky and he gave snape exactly what he deserved! I cried harder when Sirius died than I did when DD did. I was so heartbroken when it happened I kept asking myself, Why would she(Rowling) do it? Why take the only family he has left? And then I realized he still had DD but then she took him too! and I asked myself the same thing again. I'm seeing a pattern here... Don't you think. Everyone is worried about Harry dying and I'm thinking well he might be safe because she hasn't disposed of every one yet...now he has Ginny

[Summ3rSunshin3…]

i definitely agree with the post
couldnt have said it better! :-)
although i hope she dosnt kill off Ginny
Harry is trying to protect her but Voldemort does have a thing for anyone close to Harry
and the whole Weasley family is in danger as far as I know

[dayrenm]

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3Liesl69 wrote:
Is anybody else feeling heartbroken that Sirius Black is dead, just as he and Harry were getting to know and love each other as a godfather and godson should?

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I totally wished he hadn't died. I wonder why JK did it, I felt very sad about it especially for Harry.

[Taylor_Andrews]

I feel extreamly unhappy that Sirious Black is dead. its an feeling that had haunted me ever since i saw it in the movies. poor harry. But i guess what we can remember what his god father told him in the prisoner of azkaban. "The ones who love us never really leave us, and you can always find them right here,(Serious puts his hand over harry's heart." That is what maid me not feel so so sad that he had been killed. I hope that this has helped in your healing of his death.