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donyskiw
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

Bob, your response to Ishmaels compassion to Queequeg appears to also be evident in your response to Ahab. You are having compassion for what may have made him the way he was.

Denise



fanuzzir wrote:


Laurel wrote:
"All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale’s white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it."


from that great literary critic, Sparky:

"This quote, from Chapter 41, is the existential heart of the book; appropriately, the chapter from which it comes shares its title with the White Whale and the novel itself. While many sailors aboard the Pequod use legends about particularly large and malevolent whales as a way to manage the fear and danger inherent in whaling, they do not take these legends literally. Ahab, on the other hand, believes that Moby Dick is evil incarnate, and pits himself and humanity in an epic, timeless struggle against the White Whale. His belief that killing Moby Dick will eradicate evil evidences his inability to understand things symbolically: he is too literal a reader of the world around him. Instead of interpreting the loss of his leg as a common consequence of his occupation and perhaps as a punishment for taking excessive risks, he sees it as evidence of evil cosmic forces persecuting him."

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mobydick/quotes.html





Thanks so much, Laurel, for gunning this discussion with a great quote and critical commentary. I'll take the opposite course from Sparky and make this contrarian observation: that Melville seems to be talking about all the little annoyances and resentments in our life that somehow add up to more than the sum of their parts. So I applaud Melville once again for explaining in terms of real life what seems uncomprehendable in Ahab. Evil incarnate? Let's talk about the accumulation of life's indignities, and the tragic response to them.


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book as a mirror again

[ Edited ]
Denise,
sometimes this is very obvious if I reread books that I marked. Mostly non-fiction books. Sometimes I would mark same parts again. Maybe this consistency of mine doesn't mean that I didn't evolve a bit; maybe it also points out for me that certain things I already observed ...back then.

However, sometimes other parts become important that I didn't pay much attention to previously.

As I said, a book serves us as a mirror.

ziki

Message Edited by ziki on 01-24-200707:09 PM

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For Ziki: On Garnery, from Chapter 56

Ziki, I posted a message about this earlier:


pmath wrote (here):
... taken for all in all, by far the finest, though in some details not the most correct, presentations of whales and whaling scenes to be anywhere found, are two large French engravings, well executed, and taken from paintings by one Garnery. Respectively, they represent attacks on the Sperm and Right Whale. In the first engraving a noble Sperm Whale is depicted in full majesty of might, just risen beneath the boat from the profundities of the ocean, and bearing high in the air upon his back the terrific wreck of the stoven planks.
An aquatint based on the first painting is reproduced on the cover of the 1992 Penguin Classics edition: you can see a small picture of it in the link below.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?EAN=9780140390841

The French are the lads for painting action. Go and gaze upon all the paintings of Europe, and where will you find such a gallery of living and breathing commotion on canvas, as in that triumphal hall at Versailles; where the beholder fights his way, pell-mell, through the consecutive great battles of France; where every sword seems a flash of the Northern Lights, and the successive armed kings and Emperors dash by, like a charge of crowned centaurs? Not wholly unworthy of a place in that gallery, are these sea battle-pieces of Garnery.

The natural aptitude of the French for seizing the picturesqueness of things seems to be peculiarly evinced in what paintings and engravings they have of their whaling scenes. With not one tenth of England's experience in the fishery, and not the thousandth part of that of the Americans, they have nevertheless furnished both nations with the only finished sketches at all capable of conveying the real spirit of the whale hunt.
Why do you think this is the case?

ziki wrote:
...but some pieces of Garney that Melville mentioned there I didn't manage to google up, maybe you'd be more successful in that task?
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For Ziki: Our Discussion of MOBY DICK

[ Edited ]
No, Ziki, I'm still here: I just assumed those reading posts in this section have probably already finished reading the book, too, to avoid spoilers!


ziki wrote:
Are you leaving pmath? Why such hurry? We are just about getting warm to start for real...:-p

pmath wrote:
This is the perfect way to end our discussion, Choisya: thanks for finding these!

Choisya wrote:
... some MD cartoons:smileyhappy:

http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/M/Moby_dick.asp


Message Edited by pmath on 01-24-200701:20 PM

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On Garnery, from Chapter 56

Thanks, pmath. Obviously I am not in control of the board here...thanks. That was some neat picture....

The blurbs there were fun, too!
...book's like Ahab standing on one leg....heheh, poor Melville.

I remain standing on both legs: both hating it for being boring at times and paying homage to its genius. It's kind of impossible for me to choose one side.

quote from that link:
i.e. Now do you get it? Nobody can understand God and consequently nobody can understand the symbol of God as portrayed in this miraculous novel.
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fanuzzir
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D



donyskiw wrote:
Bob, your response to Ishmaels compassion to Queequeg appears to also be evident in your response to Ahab. You are having compassion for what may have made him the way he was.

Denise



fanuzzir wrote:


Laurel wrote:
"All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale’s white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it."


from that great literary critic, Sparky:

"This quote, from Chapter 41, is the existential heart of the book; appropriately, the chapter from which it comes shares its title with the White Whale and the novel itself. While many sailors aboard the Pequod use legends about particularly large and malevolent whales as a way to manage the fear and danger inherent in whaling, they do not take these legends literally. Ahab, on the other hand, believes that Moby Dick is evil incarnate, and pits himself and humanity in an epic, timeless struggle against the White Whale. His belief that killing Moby Dick will eradicate evil evidences his inability to understand things symbolically: he is too literal a reader of the world around him. Instead of interpreting the loss of his leg as a common consequence of his occupation and perhaps as a punishment for taking excessive risks, he sees it as evidence of evil cosmic forces persecuting him."

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mobydick/quotes.html





Thanks so much, Laurel, for gunning this discussion with a great quote and critical commentary. I'll take the opposite course from Sparky and make this contrarian observation: that Melville seems to be talking about all the little annoyances and resentments in our life that somehow add up to more than the sum of their parts. So I applaud Melville once again for explaining in terms of real life what seems uncomprehendable in Ahab. Evil incarnate? Let's talk about the accumulation of life's indignities, and the tragic response to them.





Denise, you certainly have caught me. Yes, I am more sympathetic to Ahab than most. Yes he's a fascist who externalizes his enemy in order to gain control over his crew, but he also has what we call in Italian aggitta, or agitation, about the way life is that makes him want answers. He's also a late middle-aged man who's not willing to go gently into that good night. And lastly I feel that Melville is trying to invent "evil" from the inside out, not stick a moral label on a character. Wait till you read my post under "Evil," the thread started by Ziki!
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donyskiw
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

I think some of these things you mentioned come with growth. I'll have to search for your post to Ziki's post about evil and reread what Ziki wrote. I've been overwhelmed by the new BNBC boards and the only way to stay with them is to limit what I actually read and scan the rest. Otherwise, I end up spending too many hours reading online postings. Unfortunately, I miss some of the gold but there's just too much to go through.

Denise



fanuzzir wrote:


donyskiw wrote:
Bob, your response to Ishmaels compassion to Queequeg appears to also be evident in your response to Ahab. You are having compassion for what may have made him the way he was.

Denise



fanuzzir wrote:


Laurel wrote:
"All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale’s white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart’s shell upon it."


from that great literary critic, Sparky:

"This quote, from Chapter 41, is the existential heart of the book; appropriately, the chapter from which it comes shares its title with the White Whale and the novel itself. While many sailors aboard the Pequod use legends about particularly large and malevolent whales as a way to manage the fear and danger inherent in whaling, they do not take these legends literally. Ahab, on the other hand, believes that Moby Dick is evil incarnate, and pits himself and humanity in an epic, timeless struggle against the White Whale. His belief that killing Moby Dick will eradicate evil evidences his inability to understand things symbolically: he is too literal a reader of the world around him. Instead of interpreting the loss of his leg as a common consequence of his occupation and perhaps as a punishment for taking excessive risks, he sees it as evidence of evil cosmic forces persecuting him."

http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/mobydick/quotes.html





Thanks so much, Laurel, for gunning this discussion with a great quote and critical commentary. I'll take the opposite course from Sparky and make this contrarian observation: that Melville seems to be talking about all the little annoyances and resentments in our life that somehow add up to more than the sum of their parts. So I applaud Melville once again for explaining in terms of real life what seems uncomprehendable in Ahab. Evil incarnate? Let's talk about the accumulation of life's indignities, and the tragic response to them.





Denise, you certainly have caught me. Yes, I am more sympathetic to Ahab than most. Yes he's a fascist who externalizes his enemy in order to gain control over his crew, but he also has what we call in Italian aggitta, or agitation, about the way life is that makes him want answers. He's also a late middle-aged man who's not willing to go gently into that good night. And lastly I feel that Melville is trying to invent "evil" from the inside out, not stick a moral label on a character. Wait till you read my post under "Evil," the thread started by Ziki!


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chad
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

O.K.- here might be what I think is my favorite, The speaker is Captain Ahab, but you have to read the qoute as if you were an old whale or Nature herself, knowing you have to go, but also hoping to continue your legacy:

I leave a white and turbid wake: pale waters, paler cheeks, where'er I sail. The envious billows sidelong swell to whelm my track, let them; but first I pass.

Yonder, by the ever-brimming goblet's rim, the warm waves blush like wine. The gold brow plumbs the blue. The diver sun-- slow dived from noon,--goes down; my soul mounts up! she wearies with her endless hill. Is, then, the crown to heavy that I wear? this Iron crown of Lombardy. Yet it is bright with many a gem; I, the wearer, see not its far flashings, but darkly feel that I wear that, that dazzingly confounds. 'Tis iron--that I know--not gold. 'Tis split ,too--that I feel; the jagged edge galls me so, my brain seems to beat against solid metal; aye, steel skull, mine; the sort that needs no helmet in the most brain-battering fight!" p.207

Chad
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Choisya
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

Beautiful chad - thanks. I think I commented previously that the 'ever-brimming goblet's rim, the warm waves blush like wine' reminded me of the second verse of John Keats' Ode to a Nightingale, Britain's favourite poem and probably well known to Melville:-

http://www.bartleby.com/106/244.html



chad wrote:
O.K.- here might be what I think is my favorite, The speaker is Captain Ahab, but you have to read the qoute as if you were an old whale or Nature herself, knowing you have to go, but also hoping to continue your legacy:

I leave a white and turbid wake: pale waters, paler cheeks, where'er I sail. The envious billows sidelong swell to whelm my track, let them; but first I pass.

Yonder, by the ever-brimming goblet's rim, the warm waves blush like wine. The gold brow plumbs the blue. The diver sun-- slow dived from noon,--goes down; my soul mounts up! she wearies with her endless hill. Is, then, the crown to heavy that I wear? this Iron crown of Lombardy. Yet it is bright with many a gem; I, the wearer, see not its far flashings, but darkly feel that I wear that, that dazzingly confounds. 'Tis iron--that I know--not gold. 'Tis split ,too--that I feel; the jagged edge galls me so, my brain seems to beat against solid metal; aye, steel skull, mine; the sort that needs no helmet in the most brain-battering fight!" p.207

Chad

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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

Thanks, that was an interesting change of POV Chad: Ahab-whale.
ziki
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fanuzzir
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

See everyone? Ahah is saying, it hurts to be me. Thanks for quote, Chad.
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donyskiw
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Re: Favorite Quotes from M-D

And he says it so eloquently.

Denise



fanuzzir wrote:
See everyone? Ahah is saying, it hurts to be me. Thanks for quote, Chad.


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