Last ten days on Moby Dick

[fanuzzir]

It's getting toward the end of the month, and we'll be moving on to a new discussion before you know it. I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed reading Moby Dick with all of you, even though some of us may not have gotten past the first twenty chapters. As many of you have noted, the book has distinct sections, so it's entirely possible to pick up the novel at chapter 99, and tune in for the final pursuit. Let's all do that, and concentrate our energies on reading through those final chapters. (Except those who are just starting out--you'll find some people willing to talk with you about the early chapters). Ziki asked, what was the meaning of this long quest? Let's not disappoint her! We will need several days just for the post-mortems.

[donyskiw]

I prefer to keep reading on through. I read because I enjoy reading. I'm not in college anymore and don't need to adhere to a schedule. My book didn't arrive till a month ago (we didn't get any advance notice when this board started) and I'm going to just keep working through it. If the discussion ends, then so be it. My primary reason for being here is for the author's works. If I can't finish in ten days, well then, I can't and I'll catch up with all of you in a future discussion somewhere else.

Denise

[Choisya]

I think I may have made a few political comments whilst we have been reading Moby Dick and I would like to apologise for these, lest they have offended. I have voluntarily removed all my political posts from both The Jungle and from Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, if anyone wants me to remove anything from the MD threads please let me know.

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-23-200705:50 AM

[Laurel]

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Choisya wrote:
I think I may have made a few political comments whilst we have been reading Moby Dick and I would like to apologise for these, lest they have offended. I have voluntarily removed all my political posts from both The Jungle and from Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, if anyone wants me to remove anything from the MD threads please let me know.

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-23-200705:50 AM

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I don't think anyone minds a few political comments, Choisya.

[ziki]

OK OK, I dive back into the pages myself now and keep swiming, harpooning all the ideas that are nibbling on me...LOL


ziki

[ziki]

Denise, I think you are not alone and the discussion will remain open. So keep reading in your own pace. Bob just does his job here. :-)

ziki

[ziki]

I wasn't offended myself, politics have an effect on us all and can't be and shouldn't be totally avoided. It has to do more with how such posts relate to the book we read. Classics are read because in some way they are still 'talking to us'.
When you remove posts it looks a bit disjointed because the continuity is broken and I think the moderators should be the judges of that. Trust the process, no worries, mate.

ziki

[donyskiw]

Some of our book discussions inevitably lead to the political. Not much on this board because Moby-Dick just doesn't have much about world politics but more about personal growth and such. It is one thing if we all get carried away (and I don't want that to happen either - even though I happen to agree with all the left politics often discussed here, I'd actually like to avoid heavy discussions of it and prefer to escape into the books we read) but I think it is important that we be able to apply what we read to the world we live in. I wish more people read the classics and thought and discussed what was going on around them. I think the world would be less fooled by charismatic leaders and those with hidden agendas would be less able to hide them.

Denise

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Laurel wrote:

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Choisya wrote:
I think I may have made a few political comments whilst we have been reading Moby Dick and I would like to apologise for these, lest they have offended. I have voluntarily removed all my political posts from both The Jungle and from Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, if anyone wants me to remove anything from the MD threads please let me know.

Message Edited by Choisya on 01-23-200705:50 AM

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I don't think anyone minds a few political comments, Choisya.

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[ziki]

Oh, I think the book probably has plenty on politics, we just didn't get that far with it, yet. I see the blue mountains on the horizon.

ziki

[fanuzzir]

There was a tremendous amount of political discussion carried on in the early going about this novel, focussed on such topics as the oil industry, the model of state authority, American imperialism, racism, and naval flogging. All of it was completely germane to the novel, so no one was offended. On the contrary, we all learned just how timely Melville was being, how deeply he understood America's sense of mission, how canny he was about providing political commentary on timeless issues of power and consent. The discussion, in other words, showed great respect for the novel we were reading and the topic that had gathered us together. Any discussion, of whatever kind, that has those qualities is welcome.

On a personal note, I profited greatly from Choisya's readings of Moby Dick and would miss her unique perspective if she were to alter it in any way. I also have a politically informed reading of literature, and it's nothing to apologize for.
Bob

[donyskiw]

There are always going to be some people who are going to be upset about a discussion of a novel including current political events. If the current political events are parallel or somehow involved with what is going on in the novel or essay being read, then I do not see how it would be appropriate to censor the conversation. I think that as long as everyone remains respectful of everyone's opinion, then all of the opinions should be allowed to be voiced. Great authors don't just write stories, they make statements about the world they live in. They would want us to discuss those topics and how they apply to the world we live in. They write what they do in an effort to teach lessons.

Denise

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fanuzzir wrote:
There was a tremendous amount of political discussion carried on in the early going about this novel, focussed on such topics as the oil industry, the model of state authority, American imperialism, racism, and naval flogging. All of it was completely germane to the novel, so no one was offended. On the contrary, we all learned just how timely Melville was being, how deeply he understood America's sense of mission, how canny he was about providing political commentary on timeless issues of power and consent. The discussion, in other words, showed great respect for the novel we were reading and the topic that had gathered us together. Any discussion, of whatever kind, that has those qualities is welcome.

On a personal note, I profited greatly from Choisya's readings of Moby Dick and would miss her unique perspective if she were to alter it in any way. I also have a politically informed reading of literature, and it's nothing to apologize for.
Bob

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[Choisya]

Thankyou very much for those kind words Fanuzzir - they brought tears to my eyes for the third time today! But what went wrong in the Jungle then, which was an overtly political novel and which I supposedly 'mucked up' to use a Yorkshire expression?

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fanuzzir wrote:
There was a tremendous amount of political discussion carried on in the early going about this novel, focussed on such topics as the oil industry, the model of state authority, American imperialism, racism, and naval flogging. All of it was completely germane to the novel, so no one was offended. On the contrary, we all learned just how timely Melville was being, how deeply he understood America's sense of mission, how canny he was about providing political commentary on timeless issues of power and consent. The discussion, in other words, showed great respect for the novel we were reading and the topic that had gathered us together. Any discussion, of whatever kind, that has those qualities is welcome.

On a personal note, I profited greatly from Choisya's readings of Moby Dick and would miss her unique perspective if she were to alter it in any way. I also have a politically informed reading of literature, and it's nothing to apologize for.
Bob

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[Choisya]

Laurel: With your great knowledge of music, how did you read this chapter? I thought it more of a Requiem than a Symphony. I think Requiems are also used preceding burials as well as being prayers for the souls of the departed? The writing was very beautiful and elegaic:

'Hither and thither, on high, glided the snow-white wings of small unspeckled birds, these were the gentle thoughts of the feminine air; but to and fro in the deeps, far down the bottomless sea, rushed mighty leviathians, sword fish and sharks; and these were the strong, troubled murderous thinking of the masculine sea.'

'Tied up and twisted, gnarled and knotted with wrinkles, haggardly firm and unyielding; his eyes glowing like coals, that still glow in the ashes of ruin; untottering Ahab stood forth in the clearness of the morn; lifting his splintered helmet of a brow of the fair girl's forehead of heaven.'

What superb alliteration!

Ahab here imagines his death and the pagan heaven of the Elysian fields:-

'Who's to doom, when the judge himself is dragged to the bar? But it is a mild, mild wind, and a mild looking sky and the air smells now, as if it blew from a faraway meadow...Aye, toil we how we may, we all sleep at last on the field. Sleep? Aye, and rust amid greenness; as last year's scythes flung down...'

I somehow heard Mozart's Requiem, particularly the Lacrimosa, as I was reading this chapter. What say you?

[Laurel]

It made me think of Wordsworth:

http://www.bartleby.com/236/66.html

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Choisya wrote:
Laurel: With your great knowledge of music, how did you read this chapter? I thought it more of a Requiem than a Symphony. I think Requiems are also used preceding burials as well as being prayers for the souls of the departed? The writing was very beautiful and elegaic:

'Hither and thither, on high, glided the snow-white wings of small unspeckled birds, these were the gentle thoughts of the feminine air; but to and fro in the deeps, far down the bottomless sea, rushed mighty leviathians, sword fish and sharks; and these were the strong, troubled murderous thinking of the masculine sea.'

'Tied up and twisted, gnarled and knotted with wrinkles, haggardly firm and unyielding; his eyes glowing like coals, that still glow in the ashes of ruin; untottering Ahab stood forth in the clearness of the morn; lifting his splintered helmet of a brow of the fair girl's forehead of heaven.'

What superb alliteration!

Ahab here imagines his death and the pagan heaven of the Elysian fields:-

'Who's to doom, when the judge himself is dragged to the bar? But it is a mild, mild wind, and a mild looking sky and the air smells now, as if it blew from a faraway meadow...Aye, toil we how we may, we all sleep at last on the field. Sleep? Aye, and rust amid greenness; as last year's scythes flung down...'

I somehow heard Mozart's Requiem, particularly the Lacrimosa, as I was reading this chapter. What say you?

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[Choisya]

Wordworth yes, but no Mozart?

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Laurel wrote:
It made me think of Wordsworth:

http://www.bartleby.com/236/66.html

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Choisya wrote:
Laurel: With your great knowledge of music, how did you read this chapter? I thought it more of a Requiem than a Symphony. I think Requiems are also used preceding burials as well as being prayers for the souls of the departed? The writing was very beautiful and elegaic:

'Hither and thither, on high, glided the snow-white wings of small unspeckled birds, these were the gentle thoughts of the feminine air; but to and fro in the deeps, far down the bottomless sea, rushed mighty leviathians, sword fish and sharks; and these were the strong, troubled murderous thinking of the masculine sea.'

'Tied up and twisted, gnarled and knotted with wrinkles, haggardly firm and unyielding; his eyes glowing like coals, that still glow in the ashes of ruin; untottering Ahab stood forth in the clearness of the morn; lifting his splintered helmet of a brow of the fair girl's forehead of heaven.'

What superb alliteration!

Ahab here imagines his death and the pagan heaven of the Elysian fields:-

'Who's to doom, when the judge himself is dragged to the bar? But it is a mild, mild wind, and a mild looking sky and the air smells now, as if it blew from a faraway meadow...Aye, toil we how we may, we all sleep at last on the field. Sleep? Aye, and rust amid greenness; as last year's scythes flung down...'

I somehow heard Mozart's Requiem, particularly the Lacrimosa, as I was reading this chapter. What say you?

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[fanuzzir]

By the way, I told Bill at BN that no one is in any hurry to pitch Moby Dick overboard, so although a new featured discussion starts in February, this one can go one as long as the postings permit.
Bob

[idrap]

Thank you for reminding me that to have missed this group is not all that bad. It gave me a chance to read this great work again. Alas, I am happy to be back here at B&N with such great people
HAP

[Choisya]

That's very good news Fanuzzir - I think this has been one of the best discussions on the new boards, so thanks(G)

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fanuzzir wrote:
By the way, I told Bill at BN that no one is in any hurry to pitch Moby Dick overboard, so although a new featured discussion starts in February, this one can go one as long as the postings permit.
Bob

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[ziki]

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fanuzzir wrote:
By the way, I told Bill at BN that no one is in any hurry to pitch Moby Dick overboard, so although a new featured discussion starts in February, this one can go one as long as the postings permit.
Bob

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This is good because even if I soon read it through I might go back on some chapters with some possible new readers...etc...it can be a 'slow cook-simmering' suits many.

ziki

[ziki]

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idrap wrote:
Thank you for reminding me that to have missed this group is not all that bad. It gave me a chance to read this great work again. Alas, I am happy to be back here at B&N with such great people
HAP

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HAP idrap...what do you mean? You didn't miss anything, post away!

As you see in another post of Bob's the discussion is on, see to it instead, don't be a miser ;-)

ahoy shipmate, tell me more
ziki