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The trees that got even with the world
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04-16-2007 12:24 PM
Chad
Time
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04-17-2007 11:31 AM
Chad
Re: Just to add to "the sun"
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04-17-2007 11:42 AM
chad wrote:
The B&N forum doesn't really allow room to go really, really in depth- you could write books on all of these things. But Melville writes about the forces that pull or bind us- these forces could be politics, business, religion, biology, physics, etc. etc. The drama and intensity in Moby Dick comes from tension in reaization that those forces that pull me may lead to my own destruction or the disintegration of my own skin- forces which are insurmountable. For example, I'm not sure if I should leave the country with my "stove self." That is, will the union of the U.S. survive or lead me on a path to the Middle East? A question on a larger scale mght be: will humanity collectively be able to leave the pull of the sun when it's time to leave? Will we ever feel it is time?
Off to the gym once again! have a great day!
Chad
Language
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04-17-2007 08:15 PM - edited 04-17-2007 08:15 PM
Many authors of this time period write about a language that was taught to them. Language, itself, is often the source of the tension in the novel, including the last one, I might add. In most of these works for example, characters are unable to express how they feel with words, or are unable to uncover what they hope to be the truth- truth is often someting we describe in language, but does not exist. Language can also be something which removes us from ourselves, something that builds a barrier to the natural world around us, or something which became outdated, an ananchronism to a rapidly evolving modern society beginning in the 1800's.
So, language can plague a human being with thoughts, creating something mentally ill to society, but I add again, and remember, language is taught. There are, what I would consider to be, inherent problems with the use of language. It's time for me to whistle in some birds or talk to some dolphin, who like to sonar my head when I swim in the ocean...
Chad
Message Edited by chad on 04-17-200709:06 PM
The letter A and the letter H: Ahhhhhhhh, let it fly!
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04-17-2007 09:09 PM - edited 04-17-2007 09:09 PM
Chad
PS-This may conclude our masterpiece discussion, what a great story though, I loved it!
Message Edited by chad on 04-17-200709:19 PM
Re: Language
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04-18-2007 02:07 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_acquisition
chad wrote:
Choisya:
Many authors of this time period write about a language that was taught to them. Language, itself, is often the source of the tension in the novel, including the last one, I might add. In most of these works for example, characters are unable to express how they feel with words, or are unable to uncover what they hope to be the truth- truth is often someting we describe in language, but does not exist. Language can also be something which removes us from ourselves, something that builds a barrier to the natural world around us, or something which became outdated, an ananchronism to a rapidly evolving modern society beginning in the 1800's.
So, language can plague a human being with thoughts, creating something mentally ill to society, but I add again, and remember, language is taught. There are, what I would consider to be, inherent problems with the use of language. It's time for me to whistle in some birds or talk to some dolphin, who like to sonar my head when I swim in the ocean...
ChadMessage Edited by chad on 04-17-200709:06 PM
Re: Language: taught vs. learned
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04-18-2007 10:45 AM - edited 04-18-2007 10:45 AM
Chad
PS- It was also important for the crew of the Pequod to speak the same language to function as one working entity. Many characters have different accents or dialects, leading me to believe that English was not the native tongue.
Message Edited by chad on 04-18-200710:53 AM
Ahab
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04-18-2007 11:00 AM
It is about all the forces that would pull a man to battle a whale on the Pacific. I would have to question everything in life had I found myself on such a vessel. This usually does not happen until we grow a little older- mid-life crisis sets in....
Chad
Re: Language: taught vs. learned
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04-18-2007 11:32 AM
chad wrote:
That is arguable. The 1800's lieterature also focuses on the teaching of language. North America did not learn English through osmosis.
Chad
PS- It was also important for the crew of the Pequod to speak the same language to function as one working entity. Many characters have different accents or dialects, leading me to believe that English was not the native tongue.Message Edited by chad on 04-18-200710:53 AM
The last of the Mohicans
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04-18-2007 12:40 PM - edited 04-18-2007 12:40 PM
You might want to pick up a copy of Fennimore-Cooper's, "The Last of the Mohicans." Montcalm, the evil French commander, and Magua, the Indian chief, had a father/son relationship as well. The Indians and the White settlers had different parent/child relationships, and, as a result, a different orientation to language and the use of language. Moreover, their sense of duty and relationships to each other were somewhat rooted in the language and arose from the language itself. So, absorption was something that might naturally take place with the children of your culture, but not necessarilly with the children of this one. Children and Adults are also defined in language.
Chad
Message Edited by chad on 04-18-200712:41 PM
Black holes, sun spots- the sun's influence:one more question to ponder lit fans!
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04-18-2007 12:48 PM
Did an amlagmation of spots on the sun influence the weather here on earth, forming what we know as civilization? Are we a mirror image of the sun itself?
Re: The last of the Mohicans
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04-18-2007 02:19 PM
chad wrote:
Choisya:
You might want to pick up a copy of Fennimore-Cooper's, "The Last of the Mohicans." Montcalm, the evil French commander, and Magua, the Indian chief, had a father/son relationship as well. The Indians and the White settlers had different parent/child relationships, and, as a result, a different orientation to language and the use of language. Moreover, their sense of duty and relationships to each other were somewhat rooted in the language and arose from the language itself. So, absorption was something that might naturally take place with the children of your culture, but not necessarilly with the children of this one. Children and Adults are also defined in language.
ChadMessage Edited by chad on 04-18-200712:41 PM
Re: The last of the Mohicans
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04-18-2007 07:26 PM
I also cannot help bringing up the dangers of teaching language, second languages, or language transplants for the authors of the 19th century. Languages were used in this era, and the writers wrote about it.
Chad
Re: The last of the Mohicans
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04-18-2007 07:29 PM
chad wrote:
I believe it is about language, among other things. Events turn on a written letter. Language, actions, diplomacy, facial expressions are all used to decieve, leaving the reader with one simple question, "What is true?"- the answer you may find in this one. Again, so well done. I loved this one, too. I am not Native American, but I live on the Indian River and cannot help but feel the Native American spirit here.
I also cannot help bringing up the dangers of teaching language, second languages, or language transplants for the authors of the 19th century. Languages were used in this era, and the writers wrote about it.
Chad
English Imperialism
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04-19-2007 10:04 AM
Chad
Spine
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04-19-2007 11:56 PM
Chad
Re: English Imperialism
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04-20-2007 04:36 AM
chad wrote:
I don't think that India was just supposed to "pick up" on the English language, Choisya.
Chad
Re: English Imperialism
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04-20-2007 12:29 PM
Chad
I'm feeling sad becuase I have to put Moby away and move on...
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04-20-2007 12:35 PM - edited 04-20-2007 12:35 PM
"Entering that gable-ended Spouter-Inn, you found yourself in a wide, low, straggling entry with old- fashioned wainscots, reminding one of the bulwarks of some condemned old craft. On one side hung a very large oil-painting so thoroughly besmoked, and every way defaced, that in the unequal cross-lights by which you viewed it, it was only by diligent study and a series of systematic visits to it, and careful inquiry of the neighbors, that you could any way arrive at an understanding of its purpose. such unaccountable masses of shades and shadows, that at first you almost thought some ambitious young artist, in the time of the New England hags, had endeavored to delineate chaos bewitched. But by dint of much and earnest contemplation, and oft repeated ponderings, and especially by throwing open the little window towards the back of the entry, you at last come to the conclusion that such an idea, however wild, might not be altogether unwarranted.
But what most puzzled and confounded you was a long, limber, portentous, black mass of something hovering in the centre of the picture over three blue, dim, perpendicular lines floating in a nameless yeast. A boggy, soggy, squitchy picture truly, enough to drive a nervous man distracted. Yet was there a sort of indefinite, half-attained, unimaginable sublimity about it that fairly froze you to it, till you involuntarily took an oath with yourself to find out what that marvellous painting meant. Ever and anon a bright, but, alas, deceptive idea would dart you through. - It's the Black Sea in a midnight gale. - It's the unnatural combat of the four primal elements. - It's a blasted heath. - It's a Hyperborean winter scene. - It's the breaking- up of the ice-bound stream of Time. But at last all these fancies yielded to that one portentous something in the picture's midst. That once found out, and all the rest were plain. But stop; does it not bear a faint resemblance to a gigantic fish? even the great Leviathan himself?
In fact, the artist's design seemed this: a final theory of my own, partly based upon the aggregated opinions of many aged persons with whom I conversed upon the subject. The picture represents a Cape-Horner in a great hurricane; the half-foundered ship weltering there with its three dismantled masts alone visible; and an exasperated whale, purposing to spring clean over the craft, is in the enormous act of impaling himself upon the three mast-heads."
Chad
Message Edited by chad on 04-20-200712:50 PM
Re: Just to add to "the sun"
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04-20-2007 02:20 PM
chad wrote:
The B&N forum doesn't really allow room to go really, really in depth- you could write books on all of these things.
That is true and it is a pity. I can't yet think about Moby Dick on a deeper level beyond the first reading. But in that way MD can be an encyclopedia, not about whales but about different ideas.
ziki