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curlycew
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎12-23-2007
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Re: HDM: Lord Asriel & Mrs. Coulter - Good or Evil?

Lord Asriel scared the daylights out of me worse than Ms. Coulter ever could. To me, the most dangerous villain is the one who thinks they are in the right and are willing to sacrifice others to gain it. Cold chills gallore ran rampant up and down my spine when I realized that Asriel had betrayed Lyra and Roger. This one scene was far more terrifying than the scene with the severed child. Both Asriel and Coulter are villains, their actions are evil, but their motives are unique. I think that these two are two sides of the same dark coin.
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cjb07
Posts: 41
Registered: ‎01-30-2007
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Re: HDM: Lord Asriel & Mrs. Coulter - Good or Evil?

I think that Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter's attraction to each other stems from the fact that neither can figure out whether they are good or evil. You have two people facing off in two realms of thought, and both are committing horrible acts in order to further their personal beliefs. But when Lyra becomes involved, things get far too complicated. Mrs. Coulter cannot sever her own child, even though she believes it is for the "good of the whole." The same is true with Lord Asriel when he at first only notices Lyra, and then is relieved to see that Roger has accompanied her...a "perfect" sacrifice. I think with this we get into the bigger question of is the good of the whole meant to be placed above the good of the individual? Both Coulter and Asriel are working toward that goal, "the good of the whole" because it gives them immense power.
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FionaBR3
Posts: 17
Registered: ‎01-27-2008
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Re: HDM: Lord Asriel & Mrs. Coulter - Good or Evil?

You know I spent three hours writing a basic essay on how Mrs. Coulter and Lord Asriel are both good and then it wouldn't go through due to an error and I lost it. But here it is point blank, Their sacrifice in The Amber Spyglass proves their love for not only their daughter but each other as well. If you don't believe me read it pg. 404 - 409.
If you still don't believe me about-

Lord Asriel's love for his daughter read here:

pg. 375 - 379

Mrs. Coulter's love for her daughter read here:

Ch. One
pg. 160
pg. 333
pg. 199 - 206
pg. 249 - 251
pg. 271 - 273

Their love for each other read here:

pg. 279 - 283
pg. 479

If you still doubt them I am at a loss on how to convince you. But, given this evidence I feel that they do love their daughter and each other, and that their love and sacrifice for their daughter redeems them for their crimes (no matter how horrid) a-hundred-fold.

That is my evidence from book three as to why they are heroes and should be respected and mourned.

P.S. Roger's death was half prophesized.
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Pantalaimon
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎03-20-2008
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Re: HDM: Lord Asriel & Mrs. Coulter - Good or Evil?

I think Pullman makes a good show of parental humanity. The two were equally as guilty of putting their own interests ahead of each other and over Lyra's. The interesting aspect is that there came a point in their lives where neither Lord Asriel or Mrs. Coulter could ignore Lyra. She became a part of their personal motivations. And for a long while, they'd be able to ignore her and literally stick her into foster care of Jordan College. At first, they thought she was so insignificant that it'd be impossible that she'd have any importance or influence. When they came to the point of seeing gain from having her in possession, each person forced her into particular roles to serve either end. Of course, Lyra with Will chose to diverge from aligning with the church or the republic. In the sacrifice fight with Metatron, it was the only way Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter knew how to show love to Lyra.

Like with most parents, you grow up and realize they're people -- flawed and trying. There was only one person qualified to consider Asriel and Coulter evil... and that's Lyra. Lyra chose neutrality. It was too late to love them and impossible to do so while they were alive... for she had already grown up. But there's no doubt, they were wicked parents for a long time.
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