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BarbaraN
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

[ Edited ]

love4books wrote:
Welcome OldBPLstackden, what did you think of the movies after you watched them? I loved the Hobbit and started the Lord of the Rings. When the movies came out on DVD my husband said I just had to watch them as they are soooooo good. I told him I would only watch the first movie since that is the only book that I completed reading in the trilogy. However, I didn't even get 15 minutes into the movie and said I couldn't watch it anymore as the characters in the movie were nothing like I had pictured in my mind.
I know that many people I know really liked the movies however, for me I just wanted to remember the characters from the books. Since you had admired the books so much when you were a child I was just curious as to your take on the movies?
love4books




You should try the movie again. You never even got to the beginning of LOTR! Tolkien has loads of appendices at the end of LOTR and then there is Silmarillion: Pages 285-304 concerning "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" which actually sets up the LOTR and tells you what had happen before the story began, how the Rings were created, how The Ring of Power was lost, how it was found by Gollum and eventually found by Bilbo (from The Hobbit). Peter Jackson condensed all this down to a preclude to the movie so the audience had some background to begin with. I think that is all you saw so none of the historical events or characters would have been familiar to you. You might try it again. It is a fantastic movie.

However, you probably have the theatrical version. Most of us got the Extended version and you can read some of our comments about the movie under "The Peter Jackson Movie" thread. I don't think anyone who has seen the Extended version will ever go back to the theatrical version. It is one long 12 hour film. They put everything back into it they had to take out to make it acceptable to theaters. We have been discussing it throughout January and I've watched the whole 12 hours twice and now I'm starting on the DVD extras, which are quite fascinating. My guess is that there may be some 15 hours of extras. I will watch the whole movie again when we get to reading LOTR.

Message Edited by BarbaraN on 01-24-2008 08:10 PM
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BarbaraN
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

[ Edited ]
We had some discussion about the differences between the Theatrical version and the Extended version a few moons ago. I dug this post of mine out of that old heap of postings we had about the differences:
-------------------

I just did a bit or research on this version and there is no doubt, whether this group is ever formalized or not, I'm going to get it. "Extended" might be the wrong word here--"restored" would be better. Apparently they had to a cut a lot out of the film to make it acceptable to the time frame required by theaters. All they've done here is put it all back. Characters are fleshed out, character that only appear briefly have real parts, scenes that are very relevant to the story that had to be cut are put back in, and the transitions between the films have been added back in so it now becomes a true continuous and epic story. They added some 30 minutes to the Fellowship bringing it up to 3.5 hours, 43 minutes to Two Towers bring that up to 3 hours, and a full 50 minutes to Return of the King putting that film at over 4 hours! Plus the bonuses are really interesting and informative bonuses, not what you normally get thrown on to most DVDs. I can see a whole discussion thread devoted to this release. Not only to talk about the move and the movie's relationship to the book, but maybe about each of the bonuses.

This site will give you information on the details:

http://www.dvdverdict.com/reviews/fotrse.php

And here is some details on what is in the appendices:

http://www.lordoftherings.net/homevideo/homevideo.html

----------------------------------------
The whole Extended version might seem a bit expensive at $65 but you are getting 12 DVDs! B&N also has the full Table of Contents of the DVDs at their site:

http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&bnit=H&bnrefer=TOLKIEN&EAN=794043734724&itm=1

The Peter Jackson Movie Thread:

http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/bn/board/message?board.id=tolkien&thread.id=349&jump=true


BarbaraN wrote:

love4books wrote:
Welcome OldBPLstackden, what did you think of the movies after you watched them? I loved the Hobbit and started the Lord of the Rings. When the movies came out on DVD my husband said I just had to watch them as they are soooooo good. I told him I would only watch the first movie since that is the only book that I completed reading in the trilogy. However, I didn't even get 15 minutes into the movie and said I couldn't watch it anymore as the characters in the movie were nothing like I had pictured in my mind.
I know that many people I know really liked the movies however, for me I just wanted to remember the characters from the books. Since you had admired the books so much when you were a child I was just curious as to your take on the movies?
love4books




You should try the movie again. You never even got to the beginning of LOTR! Tolkien has loads of appendices at the end of LOTR and then there is Silmarillion: Pages 285-304 concerning "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" which actually sets up the LOTR and tells you what had happen before the story began, how the Rings were created, how The Ring of Power was lost, how it was found by Gollum and eventually found by Bilbo (from The Hobbit). Peter Jackson condensed all this down to a preclude to the movie so the audience had some background to begin with. I think that is all you saw so none of the historical events or characters would have been familiar to you. You might try it again. It is a fantastic movie.

However, you probably have the theatrical version. Most of us got the Extended version and you can read some of our comments about the movie under "The Peter Jackson Movie" thread. I don't think anyone who has seen the Extended version will ever go back to the theatrical version. It is one long 12 hour film. They put everything back into it they had to take out to make it acceptable to theaters. We have been discussing it throughout January and I've watched the whole 12 hours twice and now I'm starting on the DVD extras, which are quite fascinating. My guess is that there may be some 15 hours of extras. I will watch the whole movie again when we get to reading LOTR.



Message Edited by BarbaraN on 01-24-2008 08:12 PM
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love4books
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

I may try the movies after reading the books again and will look into the long version as I know ours isn't that one. Since I like Tolkien's writing so well I don't want to spoil the books by watching the movies...I am funny about that, maybe because I do like to read.
Our family likes all the extras that are on the dvd's. Sometimes they are more interesting then the movie itself. My daughter has picked up many different ways movies have been made and discusses them when watching different movies to get our opinions on what technique do we think they used.
love4books
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leakybucket
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

Great idea Paul. I am not a fantasy reader but I would like to try a few to see how Tolkien influenced the genre. Maybe you could name some (a few not 5,000!) classic fantasies that built on Tolkien's formula and improved on it. And maybe "few" fantasy series that came closest to replicating Tolkien's recreation of a fantasy world.



BarbaraN wrote:
Are you going to be covering ALL 5,000 books that you have reviewed!? :smileywink:

We actually did have a thread started on the the influence of Tolkien on Fantasy & Science Fiction but this informal group has been knocking around somewhat directionless for the past two months. Jessica did her best to sort us out when she moved us to our permanent home but we literally have a few (lots) of loose ends. Would be best if you started your own thread in your own way. The old one didn't get too far. The existing one is at:
http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/bn/board/message?board.id=tolkien&thread.id=32&jump=true

Some of these old threads should now be allowed to die a peaceful death at the bottom of the pile.


paulgoatallen wrote:
Hello everyone and welcome to all things Tolkien. My name is Paul Goat Allen and I'll be your moderator for these discussions. The one thing in particular that I'm personally looking forward to is not only talking about the intricacies of The Hobbit and LOTR but also discussing the awe-inspiring influence of Tolkien on contemporary fantasy. As a full-time book reviewer for the last 11 or 12 years, I am continually amazed – and I'll refrain from using the word "rip-off" because that's too strong – at how so many contemporary epic fantasy utilize similar characters, plot lines, themes, imagery, etc. to LOTR.

As we progress in our discussions, I'll start a thread spefically about this – it's really mind-blowing if you think about how one author could singlehandedly redefine and continue to transform a genre with one (three-volume) novel more than 50 years after it was first published. It's certainly arguable that no one novel ever influenced its genre like LOTR..
Paul



Message Edited by BarbaraN on 01-23-2008 06:52 PM

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leakybucket
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

[ Edited ]

love4books wrote:
I may try the movies after reading the books again and will look into the long version as I know ours isn't that one. Since I like Tolkien's writing so well I don't want to spoil the books by watching the movies...I am funny about that, maybe because I do like to read.
Our family likes all the extras that are on the dvd's. Sometimes they are more interesting then the movie itself. My daughter has picked up many different ways movies have been made and discusses them when watching different movies to get our opinions on what technique do we think they used.
love4books




I suspect you are a reader who prefers to visualize your own images from the what you read so the movie might not be for you at all. They do spoil it no matter how well done they are. I've come across opera lovers who are that way. They can listen and just sit back and visualize the scene (and not be bothered by the size of the singers) but they do not like watching a DVD. It spoils the magic.

Your daughter might love it, though. There may be more extras on the extended DVD version than movie! They covers movie production from its start to its finish. This was a huge creative effort, requiring thousands of creative people over a five year period. They go into a great deal of detail on how each group of artists, craft people, designers, writers, etc. did their task. There is a wealth of information here your daughter would really enjoy.

Message Edited by leakybucket on 01-26-2008 10:08 PM
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love4books
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

Thanks leakybucket. I do seem to visualize a lot when I read, especially if the author has written details well. I love books that are able to take me right into their story as if I am watching safely behind an unknown object within the story. Hmmm, I have never really thought about it but lol, I guess that might be why I lean towards fantasy books. I like to read certain fiction books and can usually imagine what characters etc. are like however I don't "feel" like I am "there" in the story like the fantasy books.
It does sound as if my daughter will like the extended version of LOTR. I am sure her and her dad will be quite entertained by all the extras.

love4books
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lmpmn
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

Hi everyone! Seems I already introduced myself in one of the other threads (the Tolkien Heaven one). My name is Laura aka Ruby Sandydowns. I'm a mother, college grad, am currently unemployed (although being a single parent to a 12-year-old girl is a job unlike any other!), and have 2 cats.

Around September of last year, I purchased the extended box set of LOTR for my birthday. I already had all 3 of the theatrical versions and loved them so much, I had to have more! I can watch them over and over again, and I never get bored with them. I've only watched a few hours of the extras, so I've yet to discover much, much more! There are certain parts of the movies where I never fail to get emotional and begin to cry. Just one of those parts is near the end of The Return of the King, when King Aragorn says something like, "My friends, you bow to no one," and he and all the other people of the city bow to the four Hobbits. That scene gets me every time.

My favorite battle is in The Two Towers at Helms Deep. I get teary-eyed when Haldir dies and it shows him looking at all the death around him--ooh I get goosebumps just thinking about that part!

Can't wait to get started!
Happiness is a warm blanket!
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

[ Edited ]

lmpmn wrote:
Hi everyone! Seems I already introduced myself in one of the other threads (the Tolkien Heaven one). My name is Laura aka Ruby Sandydowns. I'm a mother, college grad, am currently unemployed (although being a single parent to a 12-year-old girl is a job unlike any other!), and have 2 cats.

Around September of last year, I purchased the extended box set of LOTR for my birthday. I already had all 3 of the theatrical versions and loved them so much, I had to have more! I can watch them over and over again, and I never get bored with them. I've only watched a few hours of the extras, so I've yet to discover much, much more! There are certain parts of the movies where I never fail to get emotional and begin to cry. Just one of those parts is near the end of The Return of the King, when King Aragorn says something like, "My friends, you bow to no one," and he and all the other people of the city bow to the four Hobbits. That scene gets me every time.

My favorite battle is in The Two Towers at Helms Deep. I get teary-eyed when Haldir dies and it shows him looking at all the death around him--ooh I get goosebumps just thinking about that part!

Can't wait to get started!




Hi Laura (or Ruby--you got a good name too!) Welcome to our group. We don't officially begin until next week but we have been warming up the board for some time. Join in anywhere the spirit moves you.

As part of our waiting period we have been discussing the Extended version of the movie. I have dipped into the kleenex several times during the movie, so I know what you mean. I think several of us were moved by that gesture of Aragon toward the hobbits toward the end of The Return of the King. I don't even know if it was in the book or not. I've only started the extras myself and I'm finding the whole thing not only fascinating but a bit overwhelming. Peter Jackson is on board for the two new films based on The Hobbit and the period between the Hobbit and LOTR.

You might want to drop into our movie discussion thread and add your own comments. Just click the link below:


http://bookclubs.barnesandnoble.com/bn/board/message?board.id=tolkien&thread.id=349&jump=true

Message Edited by leakybucket on 01-28-2008 03:37 PM
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oldBPLstackdenizen
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

Help! I've been trying to reply to "love4books" query about my views on the movie versions of "LOTR" ...I felt like I had alot to say, and twice I have composed lengthy
letters- but both times, when I tried to send them in- my transmisssion was "Unauthorized"-and I could never afterwards retrieve my rough drafts... This has been totally frustrating...
"Middle-earth Is A State Of Mind"
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Fanuidhol
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself



oldBPLstackdenizen wrote:
Help! I've been trying to reply to "love4books" query about my views on the movie versions of "LOTR" ...I felt like I had alot to say, and twice I have composed lengthy
letters- but both times, when I tried to send them in- my transmisssion was "Unauthorized"-and I could never afterwards retrieve my rough drafts... This has been totally frustrating...




The same thing has happened to me a number of times. I think there is a "timing out" problem. It happens to me when I take too long to compose a post. So now I copy my post before I submit it, in case I have "timed out". That way, it isn't lost...
I know how frustrated you are...and I hope my solution helps.
Fan
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lorien
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself


Fanuidhol wrote:


oldBPLstackdenizen wrote:
Help! I've been trying to reply to "love4books" query about my views on the movie versions of "LOTR" ...I felt like I had alot to say, and twice I have composed lengthy
letters- but both times, when I tried to send them in- my transmisssion was "Unauthorized"-and I could never afterwards retrieve my rough drafts... This has been totally frustrating...




The same thing has happened to me a number of times. I think there is a "timing out" problem. It happens to me when I take too long to compose a post. So now I copy my post before I submit it, in case I have "timed out". That way, it isn't lost...
I know how frustrated you are...and I hope my solution helps.
Fan




There have been a few times when I've been able to salvage a "lost" post by using my browser back arrow. It takes me back to the message before the problem occurred. Then I immediately copy it to my clipboard to make sure I don't lose it again.

With long posts, or posts that take a bit of note consulting, research, searching around on the web, or take a long time etc., I compose in my own word processor and save it there as I work on it. I've lost too many "works of art" because there is no temporary "save" option. Then I copy it and post it on the message board.
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oldBPLstackdenizen
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

Thanks for the advice... Using that "Back" button- (to try and retrieve the rough draft)didn't work for me before , though...
I had a feeling it was because I was taking too long to type out the whole letter...
I already considered some alternatives:
(a) Break my letter up into smaller paragraphs, and send off the individual paragraphs in a hurry, before the "cut-off" point, and
(b) my wife already offered to type everything out for me, { as she is a professional typist/transcriptionist } as long as I had everything all written out beforehand...
Or, I could just write it out and then type it myself...I guess any of these methods might work just as well as the others...Anyway, Thanks Again...
"Middle-earth Is A State Of Mind"
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Ardo Whortleberry
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Introduce Yourself

Just thought I'd wish you well. I'll probably peek in from time to time but I won't have the time to read The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings - I'll be taking care of my own group! :smileysurprised: But I'll enjoy reading everyone's insight.

Melissa W.
aka Primula Brockhouse of Loamsdown

And I'm somewhere between a "Tolkien Reader" and a "Tolkien Enthusiast" - I've read The Silmarillon and the Histories but I don't quite have three linear feet of Tolkien and I've never bought a calendar :smileyvery-happy:
Melissa W.
I read and knit and dance. Compulsively feel yarn. Consume books. Darn tights. Drink too much caffiene. All that good stuff.
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oldBPLstackdenizen
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

To "love4books" ( and anyone else who might be interested )...I felt like I had so much
to say in response to your question, that I have broken up my ( overlong! ) letter into several installments...This is the first of those...
My suggestion to you was to be: To go ahead and read the books first before viewing the movies, should you decide to ever watch the movies in the first place, ( which is what you have already decided to do ) and then, perhaps, enjoy the movies for their own merits.

A good reason to read the books first is that there are so many wonderful suprises and dramatic moments in the story ( and, since you prefer to visualize the story by reading ) you would already know what these suprises are going to be, before you read them...

Actually, even when I was just reading "LOTR" for the very first time ( back in Elementary School ), I had one of these great suprises ruined for me by my friend ( who had already read the books ) by his revealing the suprise to me before I had reached that passage in the books, myself...

And, as excellent as the movies are, ( and, I have to admit, in spite of some misgivings, that they are truly excellent ) there is a different pace and "feel" when reading the books by themselves...There are a lot of discriptive passages, where there is not so much action, but where the World of "Middle-Earth" gets more "fleshed out"...To my mind, there are a number of these passages where it is more like being in "The calm between the storms" rather than being "in the middle of the storm", as it were...And, the build-up to the more dramatic passages is slower, you are drawn along ( out of the familiar, more "friendly" environs of "The Shire" ) into the more dangerous, "Outside World"- the rest of "Middle Earth" in a more gradual manner...

And, although I'm sure the more expanded movie version of the story format has more details than the "Theatrical" version, I"m not sure if you could faithfully record all the details, sub-plots, and characters from the original story- unless, perhaps, it was not only a 12-hour movie, but even an 18-hour ( or longer ) movie...( No, I'm serious! ).
"Middle-earth Is A State Of Mind"
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Ardo Whortleberry
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lorien
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Movie Version of LOTR

[ Edited ]
oldBPLstackden said
And, although I'm sure the more expanded movie version of the story format has more details than the "Theatrical" version, I"m not sure if you could faithfully record all the details, sub-plots, and characters from the original story- unless, perhaps, it was not only a 12-hour movie, but even an 18-hour ( or longer ) movie...( No, I'm serious! ).
------------------------------------------

That is an understatement! The unabridged audio for the books runs 52 hours! So by that you can measure the length of the books if spoken.

Just as starters from Book 1 of the Fellowship the movie

- Cut out the time lag at the beginning and Frodo selling his house
- Condensed events of Frodo and friends walk to Rivendell a lot
- Eliminated the evening spent with the elves (though the extended version did put the elves back in)
- Eliminated the visit to Farmer Maggot and his helping them
- Eliminated meeting up with Merry and going to Frodo's new house
- Eliminated the encounter with Old Man Willow and that whole section of the journey
- Eliminated Tom Bombadil and Goldberry
- Eliminated the encounter with the Barrow-wights

They could not have matched the books even if they made it a TV series--it would have to be one hour a week and run at least a year! With no recaps or commercials!

The BBC did do a dramatized serial version for radio but I don't know how long that ran and I'm sure it was greatly condensed.

Message Edited by lorien on 01-29-2008 10:30 PM
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BarbaraN
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

[ Edited ]
I think you have done an excellent job of pointing out the differences. I was thinking about this last night. I recently watched the whole extended version of LOTR. I liked it very much. I've only read LOTR once and that was some years ago. In my mind the movie seemed pretty close to the book. Then I decided to re-read the Fellowship (I'm about as far as the Council of Elrond) and found they were in fact very different.

I found myself not comparing either so much on details or judging which was better but as the same tale told by two different story tellers. If fact, I pictured Merry telling the movie version, maybe dancing around the tavern acting out the whole thing and putting more drama into the story. And then I pictured old Sam Gamgee sitting in the corner by the fire with his pipe telling the book story with all the side stories and fill-in detail. If you are any sort of Hobbit, you will want to hear both stories and over and over again. "Tell us about it again Sam. Tells us about it again Merry!" It is a good story.



oldBPLstackdenizen wrote:
To "love4books" ( and anyone else who might be interested )...I felt like I had so much
to say in response to your question, that I have broken up my ( overlong! ) letter into several installments...This is the first of those...
My suggestion to you was to be: To go ahead and read the books first before viewing the movies, should you decide to ever watch the movies in the first place, ( which is what you have already decided to do ) and then, perhaps, enjoy the movies for their own merits.

A good reason to read the books first is that there are so many wonderful suprises and dramatic moments in the story ( and, since you prefer to visualize the story by reading ) you would already know what these suprises are going to be, before you read them...

Actually, even when I was just reading "LOTR" for the very first time ( back in Elementary School ), I had one of these great suprises ruined for me by my friend ( who had already read the books ) by his revealing the suprise to me before I had reached that passage in the books, myself...

And, as excellent as the movies are, ( and, I have to admit, in spite of some misgivings, that they are truly excellent ) there is a different pace and "feel" when reading the books by themselves...There are a lot of discriptive passages, where there is not so much action, but where the World of "Middle-Earth" gets more "fleshed out"...To my mind, there are a number of these passages where it is more like being in "The calm between the storms" rather than being "in the middle of the storm", as it were...And, the build-up to the more dramatic passages is slower, you are drawn along ( out of the familiar, more "friendly" environs of "The Shire" ) into the more dangerous, "Outside World"- the rest of "Middle Earth" in a more gradual manner...

And, although I'm sure the more expanded movie version of the story format has more details than the "Theatrical" version, I"m not sure if you could faithfully record all the details, sub-plots, and characters from the original story- unless, perhaps, it was not only a 12-hour movie, but even an 18-hour ( or longer ) movie...( No, I'm serious! ).



Message Edited by BarbaraN on 01-30-2008 10:27 AM
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oldBPLstackdenizen
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Re: LOTR Reading Group: Introduce Yourself

I see that by leaving out the "T" in "INTRODUCE" in the "Subject Heading"- I have once again inadvertently misdirected a letter into a brand-new, spurious "folder" , ...I hope the Director, or Moderator, can fix this for me , and put it back in its proper place.
"Middle-earth Is A State Of Mind"
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Ardo Whortleberry
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BarbaraN
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Re: LOTR Reading Group: Introduce Yourself


oldBPLstackdenizen wrote:
For love4books and everyone else...
I just realized that the most important ideas I wanted to convey in my"oversized" letter, I have already done so...{ in my last letter before this one } although I think I may want to continue with my plan to babble on about what has always been one of my favorite subjects... { My wife would contend that I have always been more than a little "obsessed" about Tolkien and Middle-Earth } ...
I would like to comment that I don't think a movie version of the books would necessarily have to be as long as a "Books On Tape" version- The Cinematic version would have one great advantage in the "rate of speed" department- namely, almost all the descriptive passages can be conveyed almost instantly: that is to say, visually- "One picture is worth a thousand words", inotherwords- and then you are left with only the task of transcribing the plot, characters and etc.
The idea of having it be a serialized format sounds intruiging, also- I also remember reading, many years ago, a comment by a Tolkien "fan"- who said the way she had heard the story was when she got together with her brother and sister { I think it was } and they read the books together- one chapter a week- on, say, Friday night... so they could have time { all through the next week } to savor the chapter they had just finished and also to anticipate what suprises might be in store in the upcoming chapter...
After I heard this, I thought: "I wish I could have done it that way"...as I had already gobbled down the books with such a greedy apetite...




We will be spend four months here reading the series--one on The Hobbit and three on LOTR. So this is your chance to relish each chapter and talk about it. That is the neat thing about doing books like this in a group. Now look at all the time we are spending on the first chapter of The Hobbit! If things run longer than the allotted time, then we will spill over the discussions into the next month. We don't have to be that ridged in this group. We are somewhat of an open-ended Tolkien group. So dig out your Hobbit and expound all you wish on each chapter.
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Re: LOTR Reading Group: Introduce Yourself


oldBPLstackdenizen wrote:
I see that by leaving out the "T" in "INTRODUCE" in the "Subject Heading"- I have once again inadvertently misdirected a letter into a brand-new, spurious "folder" , ...I hope the Director, or Moderator, can fix this for me , and put it back in its proper place.




It looks more like you posted a "New Message" from the main page rather than within the "Introduce Yourself" thread. "New Message" actually means "start a new thread." It takes awhile to get used to the board. I've been a bit confused sometimes by "New Message as well, but within the thread just hit "Reply." If you want to introduce a new topic within the thread, just change the "Message Subject."
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scifigypsy
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎09-14-2007
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Re: LOTR: Reading Group - Introduce Yourself

Greetings and Salutations!!

I haven't read LOTR in many years- I get distracted by other stories. But I am looking forward to being invovled in this posting as I do not know any other readers, at least that want to talk about Tolkien.
This is also my first time being involved in an online discussion so I am breaking new ground and taking my first steps into a timeless adventure with other fellow adventurers. It is my pleasure to meet you and to share this journey with you.
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