Dagor wrote
n another Tolkien site a friend, Stormrider, has asked: "How do you think the Elves and Dwarves were able to put this kind of magic into action?"
This is a vitally important question! I've dipped in The Letters to get an idea as to just "how" JRRT thought magic might work in Middle-earth, and it seems a complex situation. On one hand, there is the idea that "magic" is not magical at all. It is simply "technology," and only seems "magical" to those who do not understand the engineering and science that is being used. Both The Hobbit and LotR are largely narrated from the perspective of the "rustic," ignorant hobbits (not stupid, just not particularly well-versed in the lore of the bigger world about them). So such things as Galadriel's Mirror, The One Ring, or Sting's ability to flash blue flames in the presence of Orcs are seen as "magical" by the hobbits, but may simply be technologies to the Elves/ Maiar. Our "seeing-eye" doors might seem highly magical to the hobbits, and maybe such things as the Wood Elves' closing gate represent nothing more magical than an infra-red beam and a code to keep those without a pass from opening the doors. A magnetic tab worn on one's person could be sensed by the gate so that the individual elves (who had their tabs) could pass, but Bilbo could not.
The Rings of Power, and such items as the Palantiri, Silmarils and the Elven blades seem to be further examples of "scientifically" engineered products, made by a superior technolgy requiring engineers like Feanor and Celebrimbor and the ringsmiths. If we, or the hobbits could understand the science apparently behind such artifacts, they would become explainable, natural objects and so lose their "magical" quality. I think this is what Galadriel was trying to explain when she said to Frodo and Sam that she did not understand what they meant by the term "magic," and that there were, in her mind at least two kinds of such "magic," that produced for "domination," and that produced for benign purposes.
On the other hand, Tolkien in Letter #155, pp 199-200, seems also to be setting up a system whereby only certain classes of sapient beings have access to a genuine "magic" that probably is not at all technology oriented. Here we have the "magic" of Tom Bombadil that seems to emanate from his own person as a part of his own nature. He does "magical" things because he is himself "magical," he has not simply taken courses in "advanced science" in order to have access to a higher technology. He creates things, influences his environment and the people/ creatures about him by direct mental action -- his thought, his SONG (like Eru's song and the Ainur's) has the power to alter the physical world.
So, I think, at this point in our discussion, I see Tolkien presenting us with these two different types of magic -- high technology, which in a sense is not really magical at all; and direct personal power that is inherent in certain beings and does function as a truly magical phenomenon. This "true magic" is something that cannot be reduced to books of spells or formulae like chemistry, it is something that cannot be taught. You are born with it, or you will never attain it:
"Anyway, a difference in the use of 'magic' in this story is that it is not to be come by by 'lore' or spells; but is an inherent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such." (letter #155, p. 200)
In this sense, only beings with a high "spirituality" would have access to performing "real" magic. It might be interesting to see how consistently JRRT applies this axiom -- are there any instances of Mortal Men/ hobbits, practising true magic? How does Aragorn's "true" healing magic, where he defeats The Black Breath, stack up here? Are the Nazgul, some of whom were considered sorcerors BEFORE they got their Rings, able to practice true magic, or were they just using the high technology type of "magic?"
While Frodo bears The Ring, he seems to have access to powers that are supernatural for a hobbit, but the Ring is a bit of technology, not an inherent true magic? But, does it enhance Frodo's inherent "true magic" ability, especially when he starts "true dreaming" about the future? This element of magical foresight seems to continue in him long after the Ring has been destroyed, as when he seemingly, correctly predicts the gender and names of Sam's first several children.
left with more questions than answers at this point!
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This brings to mind an old argument, I trip into all too often.
Is magic just a technology we have yet to understand?
If you ever had a conversation about string theory and had a stranger walk up giving you the impression that they think you either insane or incredible, you might wholeheartedly agree. But I've always thought that man's increased understanding of technology has given him an under-appreciation of it.
Magic implies wonder. Most people no longer feel wonder at the sight of technology. Perhaps this is more to do with our increasingly gadget filled culture. We no longer need understanding of the mechanics and chemistry behind a technological process in order to use it.
Magic isn't technology. Technology is magic.
If you don't agree. I ask you if you had a workman install your DSL or Broadband, or did you do it yourself?
n another Tolkien site a friend, Stormrider, has asked: "How do you think the Elves and Dwarves were able to put this kind of magic into action?"This is a vitally important question! I've dipped in The Letters to get an idea as to just "how" JRRT thought magic might work in Middle-earth, and it seems a complex situation. On one hand, there is the idea that "magic" is not magical at all. It is simply "technology," and only seems "magical" to those who do not understand the engineering and science that is being used. Both The Hobbit and LotR are largely narrated from the perspective of the "rustic," ignorant hobbits (not stupid, just not particularly well-versed in the lore of the bigger world about them). So such things as Galadriel's Mirror, The One Ring, or Sting's ability to flash blue flames in the presence of Orcs are seen as "magical" by the hobbits, but may simply be technologies to the Elves/ Maiar. Our "seeing-eye" doors might seem highly magical to the hobbits, and maybe such things as the Wood Elves' closing gate represent nothing more magical than an infra-red beam and a code to keep those without a pass from opening the doors. A magnetic tab worn on one's person could be sensed by the gate so that the individual elves (who had their tabs) could pass, but Bilbo could not.
The Rings of Power, and such items as the Palantiri, Silmarils and the Elven blades seem to be further examples of "scientifically" engineered products, made by a superior technolgy requiring engineers like Feanor and Celebrimbor and the ringsmiths. If we, or the hobbits could understand the science apparently behind such artifacts, they would become explainable, natural objects and so lose their "magical" quality. I think this is what Galadriel was trying to explain when she said to Frodo and Sam that she did not understand what they meant by the term "magic," and that there were, in her mind at least two kinds of such "magic," that produced for "domination," and that produced for benign purposes.
On the other hand, Tolkien in Letter #155, pp 199-200, seems also to be setting up a system whereby only certain classes of sapient beings have access to a genuine "magic" that probably is not at all technology oriented. Here we have the "magic" of Tom Bombadil that seems to emanate from his own person as a part of his own nature. He does "magical" things because he is himself "magical," he has not simply taken courses in "advanced science" in order to have access to a higher technology. He creates things, influences his environment and the people/ creatures about him by direct mental action -- his thought, his SONG (like Eru's song and the Ainur's) has the power to alter the physical world.
So, I think, at this point in our discussion, I see Tolkien presenting us with these two different types of magic -- high technology, which in a sense is not really magical at all; and direct personal power that is inherent in certain beings and does function as a truly magical phenomenon. This "true magic" is something that cannot be reduced to books of spells or formulae like chemistry, it is something that cannot be taught. You are born with it, or you will never attain it:
"Anyway, a difference in the use of 'magic' in this story is that it is not to be come by by 'lore' or spells; but is an inherent power not possessed or attainable by Men as such." (letter #155, p. 200)
In this sense, only beings with a high "spirituality" would have access to performing "real" magic. It might be interesting to see how consistently JRRT applies this axiom -- are there any instances of Mortal Men/ hobbits, practising true magic? How does Aragorn's "true" healing magic, where he defeats The Black Breath, stack up here? Are the Nazgul, some of whom were considered sorcerors BEFORE they got their Rings, able to practice true magic, or were they just using the high technology type of "magic?"
While Frodo bears The Ring, he seems to have access to powers that are supernatural for a hobbit, but the Ring is a bit of technology, not an inherent true magic? But, does it enhance Frodo's inherent "true magic" ability, especially when he starts "true dreaming" about the future? This element of magical foresight seems to continue in him long after the Ring has been destroyed, as when he seemingly, correctly predicts the gender and names of Sam's first several children.
left with more questions than answers at this point!
--------------------------------------------------
This brings to mind an old argument, I trip into all too often.
Is magic just a technology we have yet to understand?
If you ever had a conversation about string theory and had a stranger walk up giving you the impression that they think you either insane or incredible, you might wholeheartedly agree. But I've always thought that man's increased understanding of technology has given him an under-appreciation of it.
Magic implies wonder. Most people no longer feel wonder at the sight of technology. Perhaps this is more to do with our increasingly gadget filled culture. We no longer need understanding of the mechanics and chemistry behind a technological process in order to use it.
Magic isn't technology. Technology is magic.
If you don't agree. I ask you if you had a workman install your DSL or Broadband, or did you do it yourself?
TiggerBear:
I did have a funny little "vision" [ after I had written in on the subject of Orcrist/Glamdring-Biter/Beater ] ---
Of the "Goblin Family" at home, [ in some small cave-like dwelling among the tunnels in "Goblin-Town" ] ---
with the pictures of "Biter" and "Beater" framed and hung on the walls... The Goblin parents could frighten the little Goblin-children at bedtime with scary stories about "Biter" and "Beater"...
An even more appropriate scenario might be:
A couple of posters down at the Goblin Town Post-Office:
"HAVE YOU SEEN THESE SWORDS? ARMED AND DANGEROUS...PUBLIC ENEMIES #1 & #2"
Ardo 
