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cindersue
Posts: 323
Registered: ‎04-02-2007
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Re: how far can we go?

Can you explain threads? I'm new to this.
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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: how far can we go?

[ Edited ]
threads are the actual questions you see listed. Like this one you responded to is a thread. :smileyhappy:

also if you want to start a thread of your own, ie a new question or point of discussion, you can start one too by going to the top left of the home page here and click on new message and put one there. Hope that helps.

Message Edited by vivico1 on 04-02-200710:22 PM

Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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lepking
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
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Re: to Vivian/Am I answering lepking in the right place?

I was so excited to find this book club. Jackie, thanks for writing about it in your blog. For those of you who don't regularly read Jackie's blog - it is great - always something new and timely. A great way to get to know a great author. When does paperback come out? Any changes except those that address the Mormon corrections? lepking
lepking
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Re:forgiveness/busy life

That's why I'm writing this at five in the morning! Welcome!
Jackie M.
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Hi Kathy and welcome back!/Remorse

I think that Scott Early showed remorse -- as well as a lack of understanding of what he did. He showed remorse in his letters to the family, as well as in several times trying to take his own life -- which I do NOT believe is a COWARD's way out.
Jackie M.
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: how far can we go?/we can talk about the middle

But why not talk about the issues and the characterization first?
Jackie M.
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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
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Re: Hi Kathy and welcome back!/Remorse


JackieM01 wrote:
I think that Scott Early showed remorse -- as well as a lack of understanding of what he did. He showed remorse in his letters to the family, as well as in several times trying to take his own life -- which I do NOT believe is a COWARD's way out.
Jackie M.


ok what question was this tied to? I am lost.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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lepking
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
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Re: Lost, indeed

Lost, an interesting word as it relates to the characters. There were many lost souls in this book, or at least "at a loss", as to what to do next, where to turn. As portrayed in the book and in real life, the sun comes up the next day, you eat, go shopping, attend church, even have more children, but there is always that hole in your heart - the constant voice that says, "someone is missing, I am lost without them." Ronnie's parents made a conscious choice to fill the void. Ronnie could not without taking someone into the hole with her. lepking
lepking
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
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Re: Lost, indeed/ we were talking about sentencing

The sentence for Scott Early seemed very light, including time served. But he had expressed remorse, over and over, in written form and in behavior, and the judge took it into account. I would have a very hard time doing as Ronnie's parents did, also, but I am not they and I wasn't asked to. I wanted to examine HOW it might be.
Jackie M.
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lepking
Posts: 45
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Re: Lost, indeed/ we were talking about sentencing

Speaking of the judge - I couldn't help but wonder if the judge perhaps had someone in his family who was bipolar or scitzophrenic (spelling???). He seemed extremely sympathetic. How could the judge be certain he would stay on his meds? lepking
lepking
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
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Re: Lost/ sentencing

Indeed, the judge on whom I modeled Scott Early's judge has a daughter with bi-polar illness.
Jackie M.
Do you think judges in general take mental illness into account? Enough or too much?
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hasenbein
Posts: 99
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Hi Kathy and welcome back!



JackieM01 wrote:
Yes, that discussion was all over the place!
We'll stick to the straight and narrow this time.
Jackie M.




Well, that wasn't really what I meant. I was all over the place - I was at Chautauqua and had limited access to a computer, and I needed my three weeks there to get away from home and be able to mourn my Mother's passing away from the "usual." It was wonderful for me, but I couldn't really participate in the group.

But I'm back!

KathyH
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lepking
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Registered: ‎03-29-2007
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Re: Lost/ sentencing

Of course there are good judges and terrible judges, my personal opinion is that women make better judges. In my case, there was a woman judge and she was "right on" in every aspect of the trial. It was the jury that was "out there" somewhere. I felt that Scott really lucked out with the judge he received. . . I can just so identify with Ronnie - the way she felt when the verdict was rendered. . . unbelief!! JM really addressed the way it really is when a trial is over. Ronnie walked out feeling like - "okay, now what - something else has to happen". lepking
lepking
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
Registered: ‎03-28-2007
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges

I tend to agree.
A woman judge did a thing that was rather horrendous in my novel 'A Theory of Relativity,' but she did it for a reason, to prompt a change in legislative practice. I realize that this is a bias and some of the best judges I know, who have helped me immeasurably, are men.
Jackie M.
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lepking
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges

But then, I tend to think women make the best everything except husbands. lepking
lepking
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kiakar
Posts: 3,435
Registered: ‎10-19-2006
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges



lepking wrote:
But then, I tend to think women make the best everything except husbands. lepking





WOW! I love that statement! Yes we do make the best of everything and most of us can outdo husbands being wives also. (if that makes any sense)
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JackieM01
Posts: 81
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges

I wish there were some guys on this serve. They'd have something to say!
Jackie M.
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Bill_T
Posts: 366
Registered: ‎03-20-2007
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges

OK, I feel pretty put on the spot, here! Should I speak up and defend my gender?

One side of this attention to what men and women do differently connects -- at least in my mind -- to an issue kind of central to Cage of Stars.

One of the issues Ronnie grapples with is what the relationship is between Scott Early's biologically-caused illness and his "character." On one level, we would say they're unrelated. But it's very hard to make a complete separation -- someone's actions are so tied up with how we judge who they are, that even a "medical" explanation for a terrible deed doesn't let us wholly see the person without reference to their actions. (I have some family experience in this regard, although luckily the person in question hasn't hurt anybody but himself).

Similarly, we could ask how we gauge the relationship between gender and character? We might say "I admire that judge because he's very sensitive for a man." Or "She's a very loving mother, but she's also tough as nails!" If the cases were reversed, we might not be surprised that the woman was sensitive or that the judge was tough. So, our estimations of character are predicated, sometimes, on gender.

So, we make judgments about character based in part on our assumptions about what biology puts in place. But that presumes that we believe men are "naturally" tougher, or women are "naturally" more empathetic -- both are subject to question.

I hope the connection I'm trying to make here seems comprehensible to others!




JackieM01 wrote:
I wish there were some guys on this serve. They'd have something to say!
Jackie M.


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vivico1
Posts: 3,456
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges

Bill, you make some very good valid points. Also, we were just trying to draw you out of the woodwork LOL! just kidding hehe. No, good points tho lol.
Vivian
~Those who do not read are no better off than those who can not.~ Chinese proverb
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lepking
Posts: 45
Registered: ‎03-29-2007
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Re: Lost/ sentencing/women judges

I absolutely agree with your obversations, Bill. Life experiences regardless of gender, play such a tremendous role in the way we conduct ourselves in business, relationships, etc. Had Ronnie grown up to be a judge and such a case were brought before her, how would she rule? Anyone who has ever been called for jury duty knows that the questions asked speak directly to life experiences and no defense attorney wants someone on a jury who has lost a loved one to violence. Unfortunately, most citizens look for ways to avoid jury duty.
lepking
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